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medicinal herbs

Simple and natural pain remedies

Nancy Reading

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Inspired by the Permies poll (link) about what proportion of natural remedies your family uses, I'd like to discuss simple natural analgesics. If I feel uncomfortable it affects my sleep, so I will fairly often take a pill before I go to bed. I try and rotate aspirin, paracetamol and ibuprofen, but ideally I would like to reduce these medicines or replace them with something else.
My issues are aches and pains mostly, we none of us are getting younger, and if I have been working hard I sometimes regret it later. Also I used to suffer (not so much these days :) ) from IBS which would wake me up in the small hours with a tummy ache. Getting up and taking something would help me get back to sleep.

dawn's peppermint infusion

So what I'm looking for is something with the convenience of the pills, that I can have handy to take when I need something to take my mind off things. What do others find works for you all?

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Deane Adams

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Do you know of "flower essence" extracts? One that I have used often is called "Rescue Remedy". I'm sure that today there are other brands on the market, this is the only one that I have used.

These tinctures can be taken by the dropper, just a few drops on the tongue or added to water, tea, etc.

This may be of some help and should not upset your tummy.

Peace

Jeremy VanGelder

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For sore muscles I have been making Balm of Gilead (cottonwood oil). It is very effective. It sets off my nasal allergies so I will often apply it underneath some tight clothing like my socks. That seems to keep the smell out of my nose and I can sleep like that.

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Carla Burke

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Depending on which pain is keeping me up, I'll reach for one of my oils, ointments, or salves or candied ginger, or activated charcoal, if it's a gut thing. For sinus &/or headache issues, it's a sinus-opening blend of essential oils in a carrier of jojoba, avocado or argan oil, rubbed lightly at my temples &/or under my nose - even in my nose, if the pain is a dry spot, inside a nostril. Spend a minute or two just breathing it in, and I'm usually asleep, shortly.

If it's a muscle/joint/ligament/tendon/bruise/strain/sprain problem, I reach for DEEP, and rub it into the ouch and surrounding area, then stretch for a couple minutes, before I climb in bed.

In any of those cases, another option is white willow bark, which is also what aspirin was derived of. That can come in capsule form, or, if you're up to it, you can make your own capsules, or use it in tea, or as an extract.

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Nancy Reading

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Hi Carla,
What is DEEP? I think it may be a US thing perhaps.

Is white willow bark extract easy to make? Will any willow do? What about shelf life/storage? Could I use meadowsweet plant too? I gather that has aspirin in too and I have plenty of it. Lots of questions, sorry!

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Carla Burke

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Nancy Reading wrote:Hi Carla,
What is DEEP? I think it may be a US thing perhaps.

Is white willow bark extract easy to make? Will any willow do? What about shelf life/storage? Could I use meadowsweet plant too? I gather that has aspirin in too and I have plenty of it. Lots of questions, sorry!

DEEP is my own concoction, it's... like Tiger Balm, on steroids, in oil form. I like to apply it with aroll-on type bottle, and a very little goes a very long way. One thing about it, though - it should never be ingested or applied on broken skin, because it's very high in arnica. I'll see if i can find one of the places here, where I've posted the recipe, for you.

I'm pretty sure most willow will do - white is just 'supposed' to be the most potent in salicylic acid, the active compound. I'll have to check on the meadowsweet, because it's not something I've used, much. I seem to remember every time I tried to order it, everyone was out of stock, so I shifted gears. Tinctures can work very well, if they're made potently (many people don't add enough herbal material, then wonder why their tincture doesn't work). Tinctures keep their potency longer than the dried plant matter (especially if it's finely crushed or powdered), and I've had some that I made several years ago, thinking I'd need more than I did, I made by the quart. They're still just as potent as ever, but the dried herbs lost their potency, long ago. Dark, glass bottles, in cool, dark places are the keys to keeping herbs, in almost any form, the longest.

Edited to add:
To make the willow extract: fill a jar about half-full of dried willow bark (or 2/3 with fresh), then fill with 80proof (40% abv) vodka, brandy, rum, or other booze, as long as the abv is the same. Seal and shake. If you want it quickly, loosen the lid, and set it on a washcloth in the bottom of the pan of cool water. Set the heat to medium-low, and bring to a simmer, for about half an hour, topping the water as needed, to keep the water near but not covering the top of the jar. Shut off the heat, cool to room temp, and repeat the heat/cool cycle another 2x. After the 3rd cooling, strain the solids out, pressing them to get as much of the liquid out as possible. Bottle & label it with the contents & date, and you're good to go. Do keep in mind that salicylic acid is a blood thinner (which is why aspirin is so often prescribed for those with high bp).

I'll go see if I can find that recipe for you.

Carla Burke

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Here's my post (https://permies.com/t/222699/personal-care/Ointment-Capzasin#1896657) from this thread: https://permies.com/t/222699/personal-care/Ointment-Capzasin#1896657

"This is what I make:
DEEP Intense
1 - 1oz bottle herb pharm arnica oil* (https://www.herb-pharm.com/product/arnica-oil/)
2oz St Johns wort oil
2oz tallow, macadamia, jojoba, or sweet almond, double-infused with Comfrey*
20 drops each of these essential oils: cassia cinnamon, camphor, clove, wintergreen, Peppermint, black pepper, ginger, cajeput
Combine into a dark bottle, & shake well, before use. If using tallow, you may need to roll the bottle in your hands a bit, to warm it.

To use it, just massage a few drops in, at a time, until you feel like you've got the coverage you need. It doesn't need to feel like you took a bath in it. Just enough to lubricate the skin, to comfortably massage it. Cover it with plastic wrap, and for the fastest, best results, add some heat - a hot water bottle, heating pad, hot rice bag - whatever works for you. Just don't make it TOO hot - just very comfortingly warm. I prefer doing it after a shower, just before bed, so it will stay on a good long time, & so it's a time when my body is ready to relax. But, sometimes, I'll put it on, getting ready for working out, or on my chores, too.
• or double Infuse oil with arnica, then Comfrey, & cayenne"

I hope this helps, Nancy!!

Tereza Okava

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i have a topical pain oil i use when i have a sore neck/back or a headache- it's made of lemongrass, peppermint, and eucalyptus globulus oil (not diluted), it literally takes a drop, rubbed in, and it works wonders. When it runs out I'll make my own, but probably switching out the lemongrass for a few others (cinnamon, black pepper, ginger).

I have a lot of orthopedic problems from being a hyperflexible person and falling off horses/playing soccer competitively for many years. Doctors always want me to try various painkillers and they tend to have zero effect, and I don't like the snowball effect of relying on the few heavy ones that do.
I know you mentioned "convenience of a pill", and this is much less convenient than that, but what keeps me moving is literally movement- endorphins from hard exercise at least 3 times a week and a long fast walk on the other days. If I don't do it, I hurt everywhere, but when I run somehow the "volume" gets turned down on the pain, especially at night when I want to sleep. I hate to exercise, but I hate being up at night with pain even more, and plus the creaky knees and hips seem to be slightly less destroyed when I make them move.

Something else slightly more convenient is that I also use a lot of heat and ice: hot water bottles, hot packs, hot soaks in epsom salt (I do this a lot for my hands/wrists that have bad arthritis), wearing neoprene braces to keep joints warm). If I feel anything pulse, like a muscular issue, it's ice.

My guts have been under control for a while now, but when I had IBS issues mint and fennel seed tea saved me! For a while I was able to find mint oil capsules, but then they disappeared and I just made tea, and things still worked pretty well.

Joylynn Hardesty

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I can testify to the effectiveness of Carla's DEEP. Wonderful stuff.

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Nancy Reading

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Thank you everyone. I think I may have a go at making a willow bark tincture. I'll have to order in some vodka, we only usually have 37.5%ABV in stock.
I found another thread discussing willow bark here, I still have a feeling that meadowsweet may be easier to process. It's just starting to come into flower here, but I don't think it needs to be the flowers that are used.

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Tami Shepard

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This year, I had a huge crop of wild lettuce. I had some help (was hoping on gathering seed -- but here in TX they went to seed almost overnight and all the seeds fell...... Sigh) that tried it. Some folks would be out of pain within minutes. One of my dairy goats came in limping real bad (wonderful test!) and we gave her a couple/few leaves. When we sent them out of the barn she was not limping! Also make a tincture. Some say it works. I have a hard time noticing anything at times to work (I have a lot of pain 24/7). One gal got a sticker in her finger. Put some of the white milk from the wild lettuce on her finger and her husband was then able to remove it. She said it numbed the finger reducing the pain by about 80-90%.

Jacqueline M. Weaver

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Pain can be a tricky need to meet with herbal medicines as we are so used to being able to pop a pill for all pain regardless of where/what type of pain it in. There will be folks who use herbs for almost everything except pain because they haven't found herbs to work for them in pain. That is how it was for us here for years. I always kept a bottle of ibuprofen in the house, just in case.

Then I learned how to take herbal pain formulas (that don't contain low dose botanicals). For example -

Our muscle spasm blend (tincture) is Black haw, cramp bark, black cohosh, and willow bark. When we feel pain coming on we take a double dose (standard dose is 30 drops) and then 5 minutes later, a standard dose....then 5 minutes later, a standard dose. If needed another single dose 15 minutes after that. This helps to ensure the levels in the blood are at therapeutic levels quickly.

We use herbal liniments for topical use as the rubbing alcohol moves them into the body quickly and dries quickly. Arnica, Ginger, Rosemary, Peppermint etc are all herbs we've put in liniments for pain/trauma.

Ive made salves with Arnca, Peppermint, Ginger, Calendula, and Cayenne as a muscle salve and quite enjoy it but the liniments took over the salve as they were less "messy' to put on.

For stomach pain (not associated with diarrhea/constipation)- we typically do a Burdock/Angelica tincture.

We do keep Jamaican dogwood in the house for stronger pain but its a low dose botanical and definitely not for daily use as those with chronic pain have....although it can be helpful on bad days (I had an autoimmune and connective tissue disease which had me laid out on the couch for days so I get it).

larry dee

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Have you tried DMSO?

Nancy Reading

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larry dee wrote:Have you tried DMSO?

No thank you Larry, I had to look it up. dimethyl sulfoxide isn't really available on this side of the pond as a pharmaceutical. It doesn't sound very natural to me either, but I may be wrong.

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Jane Mulberry

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I've made tincture from willow bark and it's definitely effective, though not in as convenient as the quick relief of a dose of ibuprofen! Like many herbal remedies, the effects are slow. My experience is that after taking 2ml of willow bark tincture twice a day for two months, I started noticing activities that previously would have caused me enough pain to need to take a dose of ibuprofen weren't causing problems anymore. I read that all willow bark contains the salicins, not just white willow. In fact some types have far higher content, but also higher levels of tannins.

I haven't tried using meadowsweet, it doesn't seem to grow here, maybe too dry for it. But Indigo Herbs recommend 2 -6g dried herb infused into 1 cup of boiling water taken 3 times per day. Their version is leaf only, but dried flowers can be used, too.

I found this interesting meta-analysis of herbal uses for meadowsweet: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/361723340_Filipendula_ulmaria_L_Maxim_Meadowsweet_a_Review_of_Traditional_Uses_Phytochemistry_and_Pharmacology

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Thea Morales

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Nancy Reading wrote:Inspired by the Permies poll (link) about what proportion of natural remedies your family uses, I'd like to discuss simple natural analgesics. If I feel uncomfortable it affects my sleep, so I will fairly often take a pill before I go to bed. I try and rotate aspirin, paracetamol and ibuprofen, but ideally I would like to reduce these medicines or replace them with something else.
My issues are aches and pains mostly, we none of us are getting younger, and if I have been working hard I sometimes regret it later. Also I used to suffer (not so much these days :) ) from IBS which would wake me up in the small hours with a tummy ache. Getting up and taking something would help me get back to sleep.

dawn's peppermint infusion

So what I'm looking for is something with the convenience of the pills, that I can have handy to take when I need something to take my mind off things. What do others find works for you all?

When I can’t sleep, I take 1T honey with a good pinch of cinnamon.

Jojo Cameron

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As Carla says, willow's good. I give a simple willow bark decoction to a family member, and it seems to help.

They say time's the great healer, and that's true. It's just not a very good anaesthetist, is the problem,
Whose lunar deity is not male is destined to be dominated by his wife. -- Old Hindu proverb

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Inge Leonora-den Ouden

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Knowing about willow as painkiller I once tried it having tooth-ache. I chewed on a twig of a willow. The pain almost went away after a few minutes of chewing!
For pain in my hands and wrists I have st John's wort oil and hops tincture.
for cramping legs at night I use the st John's wort oil too.

Herbal oils and tinctures are easy to make, as long as you can find the herbs near you (growing wild or planted in your garden).

"Also, just as you want men to do to you, do the same way to them" (Luke 6:31)

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Jojo Cameron

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I hope you don't mind, Nancy, but this seems like a good place to put this:

I have some unused willow decoction in my cupboard from the end of May. The last time I checked it was a couple of weeks ago: the colour had become off-white, and there was some sediment. My first thought was to throw it out, but then I opened the jar and took a whiff. It smelled like an antiseptic, and there was no mould. This intrigued me, so I kept it.

I've just rediscovered it, and it's now the colour of pee on a hot day when you haven't drunk enough water, and there's more sediment. *However*, the antiseptic smell now reminds me of a hospital, and there's still no mould.

As such, does anybody know what's going on with this? Is it a good thing, in terms of intensified effects? Should I risk trying it the next time I have an ache (my shoulder's been twinging today...)?

Happy to hear facts and opinions!

-- Jojo

They say time's the great healer, and that's true. It's just not a very good anaesthetist, is the problem,
Whose lunar deity is not male is destined to be dominated by his wife. -- Old Hindu proverb

Shari Clark

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This is a useful thread! I will definitely bookmark this for future reference to learn more about creating pain medicine from natural sources. I sometimes rub the leaves of stinging nettles directly on the area that is sore. I got this idea from a video of a older gardener who found that his muscles got better when he accidentally rubbed up against some nettles in his garden. It does sting, but it also relieves the ache and pain. If nettles bother you, you can use gloves to protect your hands as you rub them in.

Best serotonin-booster ever: garden time.

Mac Johnson

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As a disabled vet I suffer from aches and pains. Part of the reason for going down the permaculture route was the discovery that my diet was partly to blame. Along this journey, I found one thing that has consistently helped with my arthritis and inflammation pain. I add turmeric to my daily tea and to my daily kombucha (I take this for the stomach problems from contracting dysentery on a land far from home years ago). I'll also add turmeric powder or paste to food and beverages to help with acute pain. Plus, it tastes great in curries and soups.

"I hate how my body shivers at the idea of glory. There’s something deep in man that hungers for this. But I think it weakness, not strength, to abandon decency for that strange darker spirit."

Jane Lewis

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Anyone can add simple touch medicine to their non-toxic healing kit.

This one's brilliant because it's so unexpected and anyone with 2 hands (even 1 works) and a good heart can do it.
It takes 3 minutes of touch and a little practice just simply to get used to how simple it is.

It comes down to
Locating the pain
Coming up with a word for the sensation
Rank it 0 to 10 in distress. 10 = "Call the ambulance"
Then
100% attention on deep full slow yummy breath,
While covering the brain area of head with hand(s) while Tapping forehead and chest lightly.
4 rounds.
(I need to get someone to video this and I'll edit and add the link). Seeing it is easier than saying it. It's magic. I use it when sleepy in the day, too. Once I broke 3 bones in my nose and managed to walk to the hospital stopping to do this as needed. Magic.

So, what do we figure it would take for all 8 billion of us to be in meaningful conversation? I'm moving to this destination.

Shawn Foster

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I definitely wouldn’t call the preparation of prickly lettuce extract simple, but it has been super useful for my chronic pain issues and associated insomnia. It’s easy to take, though, once complete. Feral Foraging has a really fantastic breakdown for identifying the right plants, making the extract, and how it works.

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Anne Miller

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I use a variety of different methods for pain relief depending on where the pain is.

I went to a neurologist on Tuesday who revealed the reason for most of my pain.

I get upper back pain from standing while washing dishes. My method of relief is to lay down for about 10 minutes which seems to straighten out my back.

I rarely get headaches though when I do I use T-touch which works for me.

When we go shopping I am sure to get really bad leg cramps after we have been home for a few hours. For that I use a spray made from magnesium bath flakes mixed in water 50/50. That would also work for all my other pain if I was not using other methods.

Invasive plants are Earth's way of insisting we notice her medicines. Stephen Herrod Buhner
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Sean Frow

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Carla, Thanks for the recipe, I habe just one question... if I'm not in a rush for willow bark extract how long does the mixture need to become fully effective?

Carla Burke

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The longer the bark stays (this is not the full or outer bark, by the way, but the cambrium - the thin, brown layer, in between the bark & the wood) in the alcohol, the stronger it will get, until all the medicinal constituent is extracted. This can take months, depending on light, temperature, and how finely the cambium is cut up. If using fresh herb, the moisture level in it can also play a role. Typically, at least 2weeks, out in the sun or at least 6 - 8wks, in a cooler, dark place.

Jojo Cameron

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Carla Burke wrote:The longer the bark stays (this is not the full or outer bark, by the way, but through cambrium - the thin, brown layer, in between the bark & the wood) in the alcohol, the stronger it will get, until all the medicinal constituent is extracted. This can take months, depending on light, temperature, and how finely the cambium is cut up. If using fresh herb, the moisture level in it can also play a role. Typically, at least 2weeks, out in the sun or at least 6 - 8wks, in a cooler, dark place.

Carla -- I put it in water. How long do you think it'll be safe to use?

They say time's the great healer, and that's true. It's just not a very good anaesthetist, is the problem,
Whose lunar deity is not male is destined to be dominated by his wife. -- Old Hindu proverb

Carla Burke

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Jojo, that's only going to keep - in the fridge - for 4 or 5 days. On the counter - I just wouldn't. As a tisane, most herbs are best used within the first 24/48 hours. Longer than that, and fermentation & bacteria can quickly begin to negatively affect both the efficacy and safety of the product. The first visual indicator of spoilage is usually a cloudiness (if the product was clear, to Start with - heavily pressing the herb materials can also cause cloudiness, in that moment, which is not a sign of spoilage), followed by what might appear to be mucus or 'floaties'.

Jojo Cameron

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Carla Burke wrote:Jojo, that's only going to keep - in the fridge - for 4 or 5 days. On the counter - I just wouldn't. As a tisane, most herbs are best used within the first 24/48 hours. Longer than that, and fermentation & bacteria can quickly begin to negatively affect both the efficacy and safety of the product. The first visual indicator of spoilage is usually a cloudiness (if the product was clear, to Start with - heavily pressing the herb materials can also cause cloudiness, in that moment, which is not a sign of spoilage), followed by what might appear to be mucus or 'floaties'.

Great advice -- thank you.

They say time's the great healer, and that's true. It's just not a very good anaesthetist, is the problem,
Whose lunar deity is not male is destined to be dominated by his wife. -- Old Hindu proverb

D Johnson

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I make a body butter with shea butter, coconut oil, mango butter,avocado butter and cocoa butter. I put 1c of dried yarrow and 1c of dried plantain in a qt jar, fill the1 liter/quart canning jar with the warm body butter and put it in a crock pot for 4 hours. Strain, put in 1/2 pint jars and let cool. It is analgesic, antiseptic, anti bacterial and stops bleeding, fosters healing. Works great, and can use it on broken skin. I sometimes add arnica, but then it is not usable on broken skin. You could eat it, non toxic.

Nancy Reading

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posted 9 months ago

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I did have a go at making meadowsweet tincture in the summer. I got some 40% ABV and put over as much fresh meadowsweet flowers as I could crush into a straight sided clip top jar. I then put it in a dark cupboard and forgot about it! I did label it however!

Clearing out the cupboard in preparation for the festive season the liquid has turned bark brown and smells strongly of the bitter almond smell of the meadowsweet. I found some little brown bottles that I had saved years ago (they were a echinacea based "man'flu" remedy that didn't sell well in the shop) and I have now strained and decanted the tincture into the bottles. The mixture doesn't seem to taste particularly nasty, but I have no idea of what dose may be best. I'm thinking of trying a pippette onto the tongue as suggested above for the flower remedies and seeing how that works - I'll let you know!

meadowsweet_tincture.jpeg

tincture_bottles.jpeg

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Nancy Reading

steward and tree herder

Posts: 11098

Location: Isle of Skye, Scotland. Nearly 70 inches rain a year

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posted 9 months ago

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Feedback on doses: I've tried the meadowsweet a couple of times now. I didn't find a pipette to be an effective dose, when I changed to using the cap of the bottle (about 5ml or a teaspoon) that seems to nicely relieve the rheumatic pain in my big toe joint. I'm not convinced it is working on my tummy pain though, so I may try a version of the "4 winds" tea and see how that works as a tincture.

How Permies works: https://permies.com/wiki/34193/permies-works-links-threads
My projects on Skye: The tree field, Growing and landracing, perennial polycultures, "Don't dream it - be it! "

Nancy Reading

steward and tree herder

Posts: 11098

Location: Isle of Skye, Scotland. Nearly 70 inches rain a year

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posted 2 months ago

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I've been very happy with my meadowsweet tincture. It didn't quite last me the year as I upped the dose to two caps

I don't know how much the alcohol base may have helped at the higher dose!
This year I am drying my meadowsweet flowers and will make a new batch. Does this mean my tincture is likely to be stronger?

drying_meadowsweet.jpg

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My projects on Skye: The tree field, Growing and landracing, perennial polycultures, "Don't dream it - be it! "

Jane Mulberry

master pollinator

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Location: East of England/ Northeast Bulgaria

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posted 2 months ago

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Excellent that it works! I think it will be stronger using the same quantity of dry compared to fresh. I've read that with any homemade tincture it's a good idea to reduce the dose when starting a new batch, and adjust as needed, because there can be a lot of natural variation.

It's a shame I can't grow it. Too hot and dry here.

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