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june 2020 kickstarter for wofati greenhouse

 
master steward
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It doesn't seem that the estate is going after buildings, though.

Here's a website called My Hobbit Shed


And, wooden wonders makes "Hobbit Holes" http://www.wooden-wonders.com/multiuse.html



Use might be protected by "fair use" https://middle-earth.xenite.org/why-are-some-people-sued-over-hobbit-while-others-are-not/

These works are essentially protected under “fair use” doctrine which allows non-competitive use of trademarks or partial use of copyrighted materials that are accompanied by sufficient commentary, annotation, and/or critical analysis or which incorporate the copyrighted materials into a sufficiently new form of expression such that the original composition is not being reproduced.



Paul's is really a lot different than the original hobbit homes. Especially if we keep the square door.

I wonder if there could be a nice middle ground, where we use the Hobbit term to DESCRIBE the wofati greenhouse, but not be it's actual name?

I searched kickstarter, and there's been kickstarters for hobbit inspired pins, The hobbit reimagined in different cultures, hobbit house, the newest eco-dream (it got funded, and they're still renting it out https://www.petersholm.com/b-b).

I'm thinking you're probably okay to use the term, and I think it'd be powerful for marketing. But I also understand not wanting to take that risk!
 
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One main feature I am not seeing here is some type of ventilation into and out of the greenhouse. Some exchange of gases will be necessary for plant health. Also, as some others have pointed out, control of condensation will need to be addressed, especially if ventilation to the outside is low.

 
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Just to be clear:  we are not using any hobbit stuff for this effort.

Hi, I'm Sauron and this is my ninth attempt to lengthen my shadow.



This was amazing.   And I am super tempted to make a quickie video for this.  Or maybe I need to just post an audio recording of me reading this and see what people make.

 
paul wheaton
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A quick reminder:   we're putting just enough design bits into this to get the kickstarter going.   The real design will be after the kickstarter is funded.   I ditched our earlier thread because there got to be way too much stuff there about design and not enough about getting the kickstarter off the ground.   So this is from my first post in this thread:


this thread is about preparing for the kickstarter!




Design is an awesome conversation - but that will take a lot of time.  And right now we are attempting to squeeze three months of work into three weeks!
 
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Hya

With respect to the video, I watched it once and the message isn't clear. Is this a project about greywater reclamation or about a better greenhouse? Or, as a commentator mentioned above, are you just looking for approval to run the kickstarter?

From what I've seen in the threads, there's a lot of interest in this kickstarter. I'm not sure you need further approval to run it.

If it's both greywater management and greenhouse design, my sense is that it took too long to articulate a simple problem (greywater management) and didn't give enough attention to the proposed solution (an Oehler-style greenhouse). I'd like to hear more about the reasons an Oehler greenhouse deserves attention from Wheaton labs at this point (it's nice that you like experimenting, but it would be more interesting to compare the Oehler-style greenhouse with other models), what directions you're going in for design improvements (longer than a quick mention, anyway), who might be involved in conducting the experiment, and what outcomes you anticipate at this time.

If the project is more about developing and improving Oehler's design for an earth-sheltered greenhouse, why are you introducing it with the greywater issue? It will be useful enough just to have a good greenhouse design that, for me, you don't need to introduce the project as a solution to a problem with greywater management. I'd still like to hear more about those four areas I mentioned in the last sentence of the paragraph above.

If the project is about greywater management, maybe it would be helpful to touch on a wider range of solutions, including but not limited to the Oehler-style greenhouse.

If I need to watch the video more than once to understand your project and the 'ask', I don't think it's an effective video. Sorry.

Be well!
 
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Mike Haasl wrote:I wonder if the early words about "Experiments about X, experiments about Y, experiments about Z" might sound even better if you said something like "At Wheaton Labs we've done hundreds of experiments, maybe thousands.  We're learning from many experiments with RMHs, ATI, Hugelkulture, etc.  My Patreon peeps want us to shift our priorities and make this be the next one...."

I'm thinking it might help the viewer understand that you don't just do an experiment here or there.  And that the pictures in the video are of things you've done so you have some street cred.  Maybe little words floating around the Allerton Abbey pictures and hugels could convey that without changing the script...



Agree with this sentiment and think the video other than that slight tweak is fantastic!

It does give one the impression that the timeframes for completing this experiment is a year or longer  .  .. so maybe addressing that upfront and clarifying??? Maybe like "you get all the goodies AND some weekly/monthly/quarterly video and or podcast updates along the way until the final product is released??
 
Nicole Alderman
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paul wheaton wrote:Nicole,

I took your lovely drawing and I made some slight design changes - unfortunately rather klunky.   Could you make an updated version that looks nice?



I think I managed it!
hobbit-greenhouse-fixed-hill-dark-soil.jpg
This one has dark soil. It's hard to redo it without redoing it with pencil
This one has dark soil. It's hard to redo it without redoing it with pencil
hobbit-greenhouse-fixed-hill-soil.jpg
this has lighter soil
this has lighter soil
hobbit-greenhouse-fixed-hill-grass.jpg
this one has just grass on top.
this one has just grass on top.
hobbit-greenhouse-fixed-hill-without-membrane.jpg
This one is prettier, with just the hill shapes fixed. I think for some uses, this one might be better. I have larger files of it if Tracy needs it.
This one is prettier, with just the hill shapes fixed. I think for some uses, this one might be better. I have larger files of it if Tracy needs it.
 
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My CAD software does photo rendering so I did one today.  Don't know if it's useful.
wfg02.JPG
[Thumbnail for wfg02.JPG]
 
paul wheaton
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Excellent!  I added a little bit of soil ....

hobbit-greenhouse-fixed-hill-dark-soil-2.jpg
[Thumbnail for hobbit-greenhouse-fixed-hill-dark-soil-2.jpg]
 
paul wheaton
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It still needs that destratification pipe extended.
 
Nicole Alderman
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paul wheaton
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Oh!  And I added some grass!
hobbit-greenhouse-fixed-hill-dark-soil-3.jpg
[Thumbnail for hobbit-greenhouse-fixed-hill-dark-soil-3.jpg]
 
Nicole Alderman
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paul wheaton wrote:And then the whole well casing thing ...



How's this?
hobbit-greenhouse-wofati-pipe-copy.jpg
Deep deep well casing
Deep deep well casing
 
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Hi

Overall I liked the video but it could use a bit more upbeat music.

I don’t know much about gray water so it could go into more detail about the problems with graywater to understand the need for the experiment.

What system does the guy in Nebraska have that you are trying to find a different way?

Just some questions I would have after watching the video.


Blessings!
 
Melissa Barnes
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Hey I’m in too!

Has anyone seen the greenhouse surrounding the house so that it’s all contained and the heat from the greenhouse heats the house? That might be a possibility.

Awesome job everyone!
 
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Dandelions dig deep and so does this design -

Whatever Paul decides, to my mind this project  is always going to be Wheaton's Dandelion Den. It's a fox hole I'd gladly get into and why waste time with any other crop? Because, you know, that is what's going to be growing on top.
 
paul wheaton
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Nicole Alderman wrote:How's this?



Wow!  So great!

The only thing left is that tiny pipe near the glass.
 
paul wheaton
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Starting to cobble things together ...

Can you all see stuff on this link?

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/paulwheaton/1222100718?ref=8zrzi6&token=c19f680c

 
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Give it a go.  You have done so much already and provided a huge amount of well researched information this would be right up your street.

 
paul wheaton
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Here is what I have cobbled together to send out in the monthlyish later today.  Typos?  Did I leave something out?  

We are doing a kickstarter.  It will start in about ten days.   And, like the last one, there will be a HUGE pile of earlybird goodies for ANYBODY that supports the kickstarter - even for just $1.   A few of the items include:

Sepp Holzer’s movie “Farming With Nature”
The Native Bee Guide from Crown Bees
The cookbook “Cook With What You Have”
The movie “Common Weeds and Wild Edibles of the World”
The 100th issue of Permaculture Magazine
Issue #1 of Living Woods Magazine
The first 23 pages of Mike Oehler’s $50 and up Underground House Book
The first 25 pages of Mike Oehler’s The Earth Sheltered Solar Greenhouse Book

There are 38 things adding up to over $500 worth of stuff (and growing!).  See the full list here:

  https://permies.com/w/141443


If you have anything you wish to add to the list, just reply to that thread and we will get it all sorted out quickly!  Note that this stuff is only for the people that support the kickstarter in the first two days.

Big, big thanks to all the lovely people that love us so much to put such cool stuff on that list!


Next, here is the preview of the kickstarter.  We are still polishing it.  It needs to be submitted to kickstarter for approval in about three days.  Take a look.  

 https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/paulwheaton/1222100718?ref=8zrzi6&token=c19f680c


Note the “notify me on launch” button at the top of the page - when we launch the kickstarter, kickstarter will notify you that it started within about five seconds.   It will take us about a day to notify you. Up to you if you wanna smack that button!    

If you have any suggestions, please post to to the thread about it:

  https://permies.com/t/141473

 
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I liked it very much. The music in the background is good. I'm not a big fan of all the graphics (arrows and such) but overall I give it a thumbs up!
 
Chris Kay
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Lif Strand wrote:I loved the video -- it was well done -- but I was a bit confused by the ending.  "Do you want us to try?" I think that gives the wrong message, unless the whole point of the video is to solicit a yes/no vote.  But what exactly should the viewer try, anyway?  


<- This.



Suggest:
"With your help, we will prove it."

Also, although implied there is no mention of the word prototype. Which is a loaded world, in a good way.
Unless there is. ::roll-eyes:: gonna have to watch it *again*.
 
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Dc Stewart wrote:If you're gonna go Middle-Earthy, go all the way. Make it so that anyone (even Aragorn!) gazing into a Palantir sees the following advert.

[Opening shot: slow zoom-in on an unblinking eye]
Hi, I'm Sauron and this is my ninth attempt to lengthen my shadow. I'm bonkers about rings! Rings for Elves! Rings for Dwarves! Rings for Mortal Men! However, my problem throughout the ages has been how to deal with my nemesis, Gandalf The Greywater. Recently I had a discussion with my head Ringwraith, the former Witch King of Angmar, about improvements over the existing rings (let's face it -- although powerful, they are mere essays in the craft). I'm thinking of a really, really big ring, truly active, that acts as a master remote control! But first, I need a volcano-sheltered ring-forge, able to withstand our cold Mordor winters and immune to the machinations of the Elf conglomerate. Maybe include a Balrog pit beneath the floor to capture and process Gandalf The Greywater into Gandalf The Whitewater for disposal. We will not attempt to process Radagast The Brownwater.

[Cut to aerial view: ranks of assembled Uruk-Hai et al]
We've got an army of Orcs cursing at us in their foul tongue, urging us to drop necromancy and get on with this project! The Hobbits may try to thwart us, but they're too zoned-out on pipeweed to be a threat.

What do you say? Shall we try?

[Closing shot: Paul Bombadil singing lustily: "Dig a hole, case a hole! Shove a one-inch pipe in!"]



Will you marry me?
 
Isabella Love
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Video suggestion:

I had to put my face close to my ancient laptop screen and read the words that were "written" on the piece of notebook paper REALLYFAST because they disappeared too quickly. And I believe those couple sentences were really important details in the overall purpose of the kickstarter. Could they be left on the screen a little longer?
 
paul wheaton
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sauron's shadow
Filename: ZOOM0056.MP3
File size: 2 megabytes
 
paul wheaton
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paul wheaton wrote:sauron's shadow



just in case somebody feels the urge to make a video ...
 
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sauron's shadow



Excellent! You brought it to life perfectly! And thanks for avoiding the Bombadil ending. The world breathed a sigh of relief when Peter Jackson decided to leave the whole "ring-a-dong-dillo" business out of the movies.
 
Dc Stewart
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Will you marry me?



An interesting offer, but I fear that my wife might, at best, consider it sufficient cause to withhold my daily gin/grapefruit ration or, at worst, demote me to the role of "nutrient substrate" in the next hugel mound.
 
Isabella Love
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Dc Stewart wrote:

Will you marry me?



An interesting offer, but I fear that my wife might, at best, consider it sufficient cause to withhold my daily gin/grapefruit ration or, at worst, demote me to the role of "nutrient substrate" in the next hugel mound.



Valid concerns! I imagine I'd likely do the same if I were her.
 
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Lots of good feedback and comments here.  I don't think mine has been mentioned, but I may have missed it as I just skimmed.

I would change the term "annualized thermal inertia" to something that communicates what it does for people.  Brainstorming...

...using thermal mass to store heat for homes...
...using thermal mass to make comfortable homes...

Any other thoughts on how to put this?  I think it's good to use "feel" terms whenever possible.  A lot of people who don't know what the more abstract (and technical) terminology means will just gloss over it.  And if people are glossing over the phrase, then it's lost wording in the video and lost time.

I like the imagery and music.

Exciting to see this project happening, too.  My husband and I are doing some wallipinis here in the desert.  Keeping cool is actually our first priority, second is water harvest for them.  But staying more consistent in temp in the winter will also be a big plus.  

I assumed no one would have heard of such a thing here, then we met a couple who are also building a home and doing a sunken greenhouse...!  Right in our tiny community.  So word is getting out there about these concepts.  I think the timing is great.


 
paul wheaton
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I have completed the pie chart to show the budget:

 
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I'm in.  trying to drag my customer base into permies as well - we're suburbanites ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
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I cobbled together some images real quick to show the 7 improvements we will be attempting.
basic-greenhouse.png
[Thumbnail for basic-greenhouse.png]
trench-greenhouse.png
[Thumbnail for trench-greenhouse.png]
earth-berm-greenhouse.png
[Thumbnail for earth-berm-greenhouse.png]
oehler-greenhouse.png
[Thumbnail for oehler-greenhouse.png]
destratification-greenhouse.png
[Thumbnail for destratification-greenhouse.png]
well-casing-greenhouse.png
[Thumbnail for well-casing-greenhouse.png]
wofati-greenhouse.png
[Thumbnail for wofati-greenhouse.png]
greywater-greenhouse.png
[Thumbnail for greywater-greenhouse.png]
 
paul wheaton
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I'm almost ready to start sending out the monthlyish.  Any other quick things I am overlooking?
 
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paul wheaton wrote:I cobbled together some images real quick to show the 7 improvements we will be attempting.



Paul wanted me to ask if it would be better to spend the time to make these pretty like the drawing I did of the wofati greenhouse, but simpler.
Plain-greenhouse-straight-on-person.jpg
Like this
Plain greenhouse--maybe I should have made the glass be drawn differently....
Greenhouse-trench-copy.jpg
Trench Greenhouse
Trench Greenhouse
Plain-greenhouse-straight-on-person-copy.jpg
Better walls
Better walls
Greenhouse-trench-copy.jpg
better glass walls
better glass walls
 
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i wd like to donate to kickstarter.. im new, but no where am i reading how or where to donate.  btw paul, you got to tip the pizza guy at least $3 for him to remember you.
 
paul wheaton
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ana wynne wrote:i wd like to donate to kickstarter.. im new, but no where am i reading how or where to donate.



The kickstarter is not ready yet.   We are still setting it up.   This is the time where we need feedback on all the stuff.

If, however, you click on "notify me on launch" at the top of the kickstarter, you will be alerted the moment the kickstarter goes live!
 
I've been selected to go to the moon! All thanks to this tiny ad:
Greenhouse of the Future ebook - now free for a while
https://permies.com/goodies/greenhouse
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