What does a permie give trick or treaters?

We're too rural for trick-or-treaters here, though this certainly hits home!



My sister showed me this cartoon, to which I  replied:

Yes! It reminds me of the year I wanted to give out little toys (the kind that go in piñatas or party bags) instead of candy, in part because of this kind of thing. And in part because candy is not healthy. (You know me!!) So I bought a whole bunch of tiny toys from Oriental Trading, then had a last-minute panic that we'd get egged or something for not passing out candy. Or that kids would be bummed to receive the cheap little crap I'd bought. Which meant that year I gave out little bags with toys *and* candy. Sigh. I can really be a dork some times.

Generally, I agree with Inge, (from this thread, https://permies.com/t/51117/ungarbage/Good-halloween-candy):

Inge Leonora-den Ouden wrote:I do not do halloween or 'trick or treat', but as candy I make 'fruit leather'

Though most years, when we lived in a suburban neighborhood with LOTS of trick-or-treaters, I was too chicken to give out dried fruit or fruit leather.

Do you have trick-or-treaters?
What do you give out?

We have never had trick or treaters until we moved to this little town three years ago so I don't have much experience.
We try to have a lot of washed up organic apples and bags of the small peanut butter cups.  Compromises
We've never had anyone mention special diets...that would be too weird to go 'begging' and expect to have choices?

I know exactly what you mean though Jocelyn...I did try to come up with something else and for our grandkids it would work because they know us and sugar.
For the public though, I think any thing unwrapped gets thrown out now unless the parents know the giver.

When the boys were growing up they would usually go with friends and someone's parents drove....I took them once to the bigger town near by and it was just too crazy for me with cars of kids in line in front of houses waiting to run up and grab candy.

I'm a lot more relaxed about it these days and I'll admit that I love reeses pieces so that is what we get just in case no one comes.....

Ah, Judith, thank you (as usual!)! I feel less like a flake or too wishy-washy to hear that others compromise, too.

One year, I might have gotten braver and given out that Stretch Island brand fruit leather - I can't recall for certain. I thought it was organic, though not so sure if it is now. Though it is ALL FRUIT, which is important to me. "Fruit snacks" even the organic varieties, are really candy, and often have crap sugars in them and very little fruit.

There's a new(er?) kid on the block in terms of better ingredients than candy - which I think would work as something packaged, too.

https://www.amazon.com/Pure-Organic-Strawberry-Apple-Fruit/dp/B01MZ3IP8P/



Amazon doesn't seem to have the all fruit ones by Pure, though our local Costco does, and I think they are quite a sweet treat!

Some years we get a lot of trick or treaters. I could never afford to give anything other than cheap candy, and I still spent $30 this year. I give it because it's the convention. A lot of it gets thrown away but kids seem to just love amassing it, regardless of whether or not they eat it. I do love seeing all the children in their costumes, they are darling. I will miss it when we move, but I'm sure there will be other options in rural Oregon.

Unbleached paper cups full of bedding material and red wigglers for their compost, what else?

-CK

Molly Lombas replied on Facebook to say:

seeds - heirloom pumpkins so they can grow their own for next year.

Stacy Witscher wrote:Some years we get a lot of trick or treaters. I could never afford to give anything other than cheap candy, and I still spent $30 this year. I give it because it's the convention. A lot of it gets thrown away but kids seem to just love amassing it, regardless of whether or not they eat it. I do love seeing all the children in their costumes, they are darling. I will miss it when we move, but I'm sure there will be other options in rural Oregon.

You're right, the organic all fruit treats are a lot more expensive than the cheap candy. If you have lots of trick-or-treaters, the expense can be rather ridiculous!

Chris Kott wrote:Unbleached paper cups full of bedding material and red wigglers for their compost, what else?

-CK

Somehow, I'm now thinking of that song, Guess I'll Go Eat Worms. Because you know the kids will dare each other to do it! Especially on Halloween!!

Bah!   I'm a Halloween scrooge.  To me it's just another corporate holiday to market cheap, throwaway costumes and candy and crepe paper, which teaches children to waste money and beg for candy, for which they'll struggle the rest of their lives to break their sugar addiction.   I understand why so many spiritually conscious parents are homeschooling now, so they won't be exposed to this stuff all the time.   I don't feel guilty at all about keeping the front of the house dark and not answering the bell for those brave little souls.   Participating in a wasteful activity purely to entertain the kids is foolish in my mind.   Add up all the Hallmark cards and decorations and costumes and cupcakes for every "holiday" that merchandisers have deemed necessary,  and you'd be surprised how much of a family budget is for just junk.   Sorry dear sweet ladies, you can kick me out and over to the Frugal or Environmental forums :)

Folklore has it that trick or treating began with poor children begging for food in exchange for their prayers for the dead.   I'm all for different cultures celebrating, holding vigils, commemorating heritage, renewing vows, etc.     If I had young kids I'd establish our own family tradition by doing something like making a board game relevant to the subject - pull it out once a year to make it special and give them something to do instead of joining the throngs of beggars.   Use the game to have conversations about history and poverty and generosity and sharing and nutrition (it doesn't have to be a classroom thing - just light conversation).  

- my suggestion if you MUST, is little bags of trail mix

  ( Love your idea Chris, lol )

Jocelyn Campbell wrote:Molly Lombas replied on Facebook to say:

seeds - heirloom pumpkins so they can grow their own for next year.

Pumpkin seeds are a great idea and susan's trail mix....and chris's worms!  although I'm not sure they would survive the night.

Susan, It's so true...every occasion gets marketed to death and loses all meaning.

This year one of our (odd) neighbors gave my son two giant bags of candy. We'll be giving that out if anyone comes by. In previous years, we'd get some of the organic candy (peanut butter cups, etc) that we also like to eat, but we never had anyone come by, because everyone is on 5 acre plots and the kids are all older.

On idea for toys are hot wheels, which are at least partly metal and not all plastic. They're usually a dollar a car at most grocery stores.

With my husband having Crohn's, and candy being so horrifyingly bad, my kids won't be eating the candy they collect. We'll let them go trick-or-treating, though, and we'll figure out some way to donate their candy to dentists who ship them off to soldiers. Maybe we could just donate them to homeless shelters. Either way, we'l get them something else in repayment for the candy. I'm not about to be frustrated that people give out candy that my kids can't eat.

Speaking of candy made from real fruit, Jamba Juice now makes fruit leather that's just fruit leather in fun star shapes, with added vitamins. They're really quite tasty and fun! https://www.jambafruitsnacks.com

Jocelyn Campbell wrote:

Generally, I agree with Inge, (from this thread, https://permies.com/t/51117/ungarbage/Good-halloween-candy):

Inge Leonora-den Ouden wrote:I do not do halloween or 'trick or treat', but as candy I make 'fruit leather'

Though most years, when we lived in a suburban neighborhood with LOTS of trick-or-treaters, I was too chicken to give out dried fruit or fruit leather.

Do you have trick-or-treaters?
What do you give out?

I wouldn't allow my kids to eat a home made treat. Too risky. So anyone giving out fruit leather would be wasting effort on my kiddos.

Otherwise we don't live anywhere close to people so no trick or treaters here.

Chris Kott wrote:Unbleached paper cups full of bedding material and red wigglers for their compost, what else?

-CK

With a lid I hope! lol

First Halloween night for me at my new property.   "I asked what will I eat if left over?"  I normally don't eat candy.  So bought 2 full size bags Reese's pieces at the big box store.   I haven't a clue how many will show up.  It is a tiny town.

Halloween results, 0 kids, by me, a bank worker in a near town and another person too.  So ate the reese's and turn in the other bag for a refund, dumped lollipops at bank.

Nicole Alderman wrote:
On idea for toys are hot wheels, which are at least partly metal and not all plastic. They're usually a dollar a car at most grocery stores.

Uh, in our old neighborhood, we had 50 or more kids come by, so while I do think that's a far cooler toy, that would add up fast! Hence my cheap plastic crap idea...that I ended up not liking.

Nicole Alderman wrote:With my husband having Crohn's, and candy being so horrifyingly bad, my kids won't be eating the candy they collect. We'll let them go trick-or-treating, though, and we'll figure out some way to donate their candy to dentists who ship them off to soldiers. Maybe we could just donate them to homeless shelters. Either way, we'l get them something else in repayment for the candy. I'm not about to be frustrated that people give out candy that my kids can't eat.

I agree. My son was the gluten-free kid when it wasn't nearly so common. I had one neighbor mom ask if he could eat packaged cinnamon rolls since they didn't have wheat flour. She apparently didn't know that "flour" was made from wheat and only recognized it when the label said "whole wheat" or something.

When my son went to birthday parties, I would tell/forewarn the parents that he couldn't eat the cake or the ice cream (he couldn't have dairy most of the time either). And they would try to offer to do something for him. For the reasons above, I would politely decline, explaining that they had too much to do in planning the party, that I didn't want us making more work for them. (Here, there'd usually be a barely disguised sigh of relief!) And I'd tell them that I'd send my son with his own treat. Since I didn't usually buy candy, which my son *did* enjoy, for the parties, I would offer to buy him whatever he wanted to take as his treat when the other kids ate cake. He usually chose gummy worms, or sour gummy treats of some kind.

Then, after doing this for a while, he said to me, "you're buying me that treat for the party, aren't you?"
"Yessss." ()
"Well, what if, instead of spending money on the treat, you buy me an action figure I want?"
"HELL YESS!!" "Um, sure, I can do that."  (I tried, and often failed, to play it cool as a parent. )

So, even when there was a pizza party or a surprise ice cream treat at school, etc., he would learn delayed gratification by not partaking, yet knowing I would get him a toy that would last far longer, and provide many hours of creative play. I was rather thrilled he figured out how to choose something far more lasting than fleeting sugar on the tongue!

Nicole Alderman wrote:Speaking of candy made from real fruit, Jamba Juice now makes fruit leather that's just fruit leather in fun star shapes, with added vitamins. They're really quite tasty and fun! https://www.jambafruitsnacks.com

Oooh, they are even organic - those look really cool!

We are too far out in the county (and live down a long twisty road with trees hanging overhead) for trick or treaters.

I couldn't justify giving out candy... but might consider handing out sticks, plants, and subversive literature... or maybe kittens!

Since I'm already crosswise with permies.com sentiment in the good use for Halloween candy thread where the universal starting point for discussion is that by no means should letting children eat it be considered, I guess I might as well be the contrarian in this thread as well.

How many active threads do we have going right now that talk about the value of community, the importance of being on good terms with your neighbors, and the "prepper" skill of relationship-building?

Well, a common thread across all of those is participating in community rituals, with cheerfulness and goodwill.  

And that's what Halloween is -- a community ritual.  Happy children dressed in costume, knocking at your door begging for candy.

They're not begging for fruit leather, worms, pumpkin seeds, wool socks, toothbrushes, religious tracts, or no-bake cookies made with sorghum molasses and organic oats and carob chips.  (Something that I was actually given as a trick-or-treater in my childhood.)

Your community may forgive you if you decline to participate in the ritual by turning off illumination at your house and not answering the door.  People of good will, will assume you are not home.  The rest will figure you are grumpy-grinches, but will probably give you a pass.

But if you illuminate your door and put up decorations and answer the doorbell with a bowl in your hand, the ritual expectation is that the bowl will contain what the little ghoulies want (candy) or something better.  One ancient old man in my home town gave out Eisenhower metal dollars; nobody missed his house.  One woman made huge cream-filled chocolate eclairs that everyone loved.  (It was a small town; nobody minded home-made treats if they were better than candy.)  Large popcorn balls were not uncommon; childhood opinion was divided on whether they were "as good as" candy, but nobody considered them a cop-out.  Extra points if they had M&Ms or candy corn in them.  

But giving something that is inferior (not objectively or by the values here at permies.com, but by the values of the community members participating in the ritual, who are the children) is to disrespect the community ritual.  The people who knock on your door may parse this as unfriendly, or as disrespectful.  They certainly won't feel all that warmly about it.  We children tended to despise the people who did it, back in the day.  I doubt the children of today feel all that much different.  And sure, I (we) can construct an argument about a teachable moment and living our permaculture values by example and all that, but is messing up a community ritual -- deliberately choosing to participate in it without carrying out your appointed role -- really going to have that effect?  

Back in my childhood, the people who handed out no-bake carob cookies sweetened with molasses were despised as "hippies" by the kids who were unfortunate enough to go to that house.  We didn't learn an uplifting lesson about countercultural values or organic nutrition; we learned that hippies didn't know how to play right.  That they were weird.  Other.  Disdainful of us.

I humbly submit that permaculturalists are at risk of conveying the same sort of unintended negative messages if they choose to participate in Halloween community rituals but insist on not following community norms -- however toxic we may find those norms -- while doing so.  (And it is, after all, only one day out of the year!)

The only solution that I can see is to be like the Eisenhower dollar guy: if you just can't bear to give out candy as the children expect, the challenge is to find something within your (our) value system that the children actually will think is better than candy.  And that's likely to be a lot more expensive than cheap corn syrup solids and Yellow #5.

Another option, too, is to locate candies that taste good but are organic. Like Trader Joes lolli pops or organic candies, or Justin's Organic Peanut Butter cups or bags of organic M & Ms. These may be a bit more expensive, but they ARE delicious, and the kid's not going to be disappointed. They look and taste like the real candy, and come in a wrapper. If nothing else, you'll be at the level of someone who gives out the candies no one likes.

I personally LOVE Trick or Treating, especially in one's own neighborhood. When I was young, we lived on a dead-end road with maybe 20 houses on it, all 1 acre plots. It was the only place we trick or treated, but we got LOADS of candy, because our neighbors each gave out a handful. I had one neighbor that would actually give us a baggy full of candy. The neighbor was a little wonky, but him giving us candy made us not fear him. He was a nice guy who built us a school bus stop shelter, too. It's acts like him giving us candy on Halloween that built bonds that spanned generations. Trick or treating is also one of the few times I would see and say "Hi" to many of my older neighbors. It was a culturally appropriate excuse to knock on their door. Now that I try to know my neighbors, it's HARD to find excuses to knock on their door and build those bonds!

I haven't taken my kids trick or treating in our neighborhood, because there's so few houses, and I don't want to make people feel bad, especially as no one has trick or treated at our place yet...but hopefully we'll be able to try next year, especially as there's more and more kids moving into the neighborhood!

Edit: Another option is to mix in things like fruit leather or fruit snacks or toys WITH the candy, and they can pick what they want. That way, they won't hate you for giving out fruit leather if they can choose the peanut butter cups instead

Seeds!

Honestly, give what ever you want, or nothing at all, it's really not a big deal.
Halloween is very flexible, only your own kids really have expectations of you.
My kids are going to be away,one  scoring some candy with her friend and the other some  Latter Day Saintlyness with his church.

Having given up my own traditions of dressing up Halloween in favor of making it fun for my kids, its a relief to be off duty this year.
I did put out some cash for craft supplies, but I'm a sucker for homemade costuming.

As an adult,I would love a holiday where we swapped seeds and plant starts.

William Bronson wrote:
As an adult, I would love a holiday where we swapped seeds and plant starts.

I want that holiday too! Can I dress up in costume, come to your house and rummage through your seed offerings? :D
Because I like good excuses to dress up neat ...

Depending on where you live having a seed/seedling swap at a spring equinox or may day celebration sounds doable.

And seeds and plant starts symbolise life's potential, so I could see them used in similar contexts as eggs at Easter or other spring festivals.

-CK

Easter Egg hunt with the eggs full of seeds!

Or egg-shaped seed balls?

-CK

There are a lot of seeds or starts that are great to plant in the fall, so I think an adult Halloween all about that would be awesome!

Very good points previously about fostering community with traditions and conventions, or finding a middle ground instead of thumbing you nose at the rest of society. This thread has turned out rather awesome, if you ask me.

So back to seeds and things at Easter, we have a great thread that Casie Becker started about confetti eggs made with seeds! I love that idea!  https://permies.com/t/54577/Confetti-eggs. So conversations about spring stuff could go there (or a gazillion other seed ball or seed saving or spring seed threads). Let's keep this thread about Halloween and fall things, if possible.

While seed exchanges are more common in the spring, I really like the idea of a Halloween time or fall one too! We still haven't planted all the garlic we'd like to plant. What about an anti-vampire garlic exchange on Halloween? Muwhahahaha!  ;-)

Would giving kids a head of seed garlic be seen as a trick instead of a treat? For most kids I guess.  

Just saw this on FB:



The person posting it wrote:

I know a woman who puts out a barrel of books on Halloween. I've been thinking about handing out seeds, or advice/fortunes (without forks). What are some non sugar things you'd consider handing out?

Those under 60 missed what Halloween treats were all about!! Today its all candy wrapped stuff. But I remember ....

Caramel Apples on a stick,
Rice Krispies bars,
Fruit leathers,
Smores,
Cheese Cake cups,
Homemade candies.

All of it made by the mothers in the neighborhood. We could wash it all down with Koolaid, hot cocoa, or hot apple cider.

Then some jerk put broken razor blades in apples. That put an end to all of it.

Usually what we give out these days are individually wrapped fruit leathers or individually wrapped mini milk chocolate bars. If we could ever get rid of the jerks in the world I would give out dehydrated watermelon slices. Sweet tasting with naturally occurring fiber but I can't afford the liability.

Trick or treat isn't generally done here, last year we were (outside) of a village and it was generally agreed that only houses that had put themselves on a list would be visited. (we would have been too far out anyway 1mile down a gravel drive) Many people here do not want to be visited by hordes (or even 1) child on a random night for an American tradition. There is a day here where the children do pretty much the same it's in February next year it will be the 23rd and the children dress up and go round to houses begging for buns and sweets. (in Britain it was the 5th November children used to do the same though they made a Guy and asked for money) This year we are inside a small hamlet, and there are a few children, probably around 8 or so we have bought a few sweets just incase.

Both here and in the UK you can buy toffee apples from the shops, pre-wrapped if that is an issue where you are.

Judith Browning wrote:We have never had trick or treaters until we moved to this little town three years ago so I don't have much experience.
We try to have a lot of washed up organic apples and bags of the small peanut butter cups.  Compromises

One of my favorites is peanut butter cups.  Of course I like to sit in the evening and peel an apple and put peanut butter on the slices for a snack.

I made fruit leather one year when we lived in a town, packaged it up nice with a card that had the info on it, you know, name, phone number and what type of homemade fruit leather it was.  I was a hit!!  Even had one person come by a few days later and have me show her how to make it.

We live in the country now with nearest neighbor over a quarter mile away.  Don't expect any trick or treaters, but bought a bag of candy with lots of peanut butter cups in it, figure it won't go to waster.

We are living in our trailer while we start to build our new home.

Ya know... the post about community resonated with me.
Also this forum is about teaching and learning.
Soooo.....


Bring it to the outside world/the non permie world, make up a half/full page flyer (so it doesn't get tossed) offer the following and drop into their bags.

Dear friends and neighbors, On (insert date and time or you can make it an open ended time frame for that day) we want to TREAT you with Permie Happiness. Please bring your entire family to (insert address) and enjoy meeting and learning a surprise topic (it can be informal with a walk around your garden with ongoing conversation about seeds or cuttings etc)  Experience an enjoyable family outing . We wish you a happy Halloween and hope to see you soon.

Make it on a weekend so everyone can come and then do your thing. Serve water and maybe raisins and/or carrots, my experience is the kids don't really care about food and if you think you want to repeat this every year keep it simple. The educational choices are boundless and if you do something hands on its even better. You get to establish "community" in your own back yard. You may find a neighbor who is "all in" but never knew you existed. What a great chance to turn that neighbor into a "partner in crime" so to speak!

This may not take off well the first year but word of mouth is an awesome thing!

I'm 30 and I still dress up and go door to door. The past 3 years I've been a male witch, a youkai, and a wizard. My old neighbors expected me, so I got beer and shots of Jameson instead of candy.

Daughter is very reasonable about her candy, it usually last a year or so. She isn't used to so many sweet treats, so she moderates herself.
I enjoy dressing up and going out with her too. We make our costumes, so it's a learning experience. Then we get to meet and talk with neighbors that we wouldn't normally. We live in the country so we drive to our small town, where all the businesses are open.

Ryan Hobbs wrote:I'm 30 and I still dress up and go door to door. The past 3 years I've been a male witch, a youkai, and a wizard. My old neighbors expected me, so I got beer and shots of Jameson instead of candy.

Dang!! I need to try that! Certainly better than popping for $50 bottle! :)

We dont get any kids here now, but in the past I have given out organic popcorn I popped here on the stove, you put it in wax paper bags, salted and ready to eat ( yes, you can still buy these, made by Natural Value) and fold over the top and iron it closed.   Also, I would have a bowl full of apples for those that wanted to take one ( or more...)

john mcginnis wrote:

Ryan Hobbs wrote:I'm 30 and I still dress up and go door to door. The past 3 years I've been a male witch, a youkai, and a wizard. My old neighbors expected me, so I got beer and shots of Jameson instead of candy.

Dang!! I need to try that! Certainly better than popping for $50 bottle! :)

We need to normalize an adults only trick or treat where we go door to door asking for booze and weed. If it has to be packaged we can get those little taster bottles from the liquor store, or cans of beer. Adults like to have fun too.

I still want to dress up and come raid everyone's seed stashes! :D

When we first moved into this area, I put on a costume, and went and knocked on the doors of my neighbors who I had met, and gave them candy! :D
I call it anti-trick or treating :)

I tend to make kids sing me a song before I give them candy. Don't care what song, but you have to sing.

I live in a rural area with a large 'area' but a small population.  Halloween is my chance to catch up with neighbors after harvest.  We only take the kids to about ten houses, but it takes more than 2 hours, and there's usually an adult beverage or three to be had along the way.  The older neighbors, especially, love to see the kids.  I do wish they would hand out Rice Krispy squares or candy apples, though.  I know nobody out here would harm the kids, and it would save on plastic waste, plus it would be healthier.  It would also be over sooner.  Because there's so few kids, most houses hand out big bags of candy, which means we've got an unreasonable surplus to discretely dispose of after the first week of sugar coma.

When we lived in the "City" we would go all out for Samhain including lots of carved turnips.
One year I dressed up as a scarecrow and sat in a rocking chair with a pig cleaver that was so dull it was safe should anyone touch the "cutting edge".
I had straw sticking out around my hands (in black gloves) and I made a head covering mask complete with painted on eyes, nose and mouth.  
I would sit motionless then as the kids were at the door I would make a small movement of one hand or move my head.
If one of the kiddos spotted that movement, they got an extra treat from the scarecrow (a plastic egg with a dollar bill inside).
Only problem was, most of the time the kids wouldn't notice. So I started standing up and that was good for a real scare.

Parents in the neighborhood knew that something wild would happen at our house and several even went in on the action the year we did "Zombies are coming to eat your brain".
The last year I pulled out my old gillie suit and would rustle the bushes as the kiddos came up the walkway.
They would come over and look around, but I would be still and they wouldn't see me since I had the gillie suit laced with twigs and leaves so I blended in with the bushes.
As the kiddos would leave I'd say "Happy Halloween", the kiddos usually ran like crazy to their parents.
I think the best scare I gave that year was to some teens as they were getting ready to leave the porch I reached out and grabbed one of their candy buckets and tugged on it.
The guy turned to see what it was snagged on and then he saw my eyes, screamed like a girl, dropped his candy and was half way down the street before stopping.
His friends were all right behind him.

Now we never see any trick or treaters since we are so far from anyone.

Redhawk

So I don't post the same exact post on two threads...
What I am doing for Halloween in the Samhain or Halloween Art & Traditions thread

I keep it simple its either apple without razor blades or a dark cocoa Hershey bar