Will the system operate when the power goes out? - part of the Heat Infographic project

Christine Circe wrote:This thread is to discuss/establish which heating system can operate when the power is out.

Natural Gas    NO


Propane   I think the answer is NO


Pellet Stove   NO

Jack Adam wrote:Most NG and propane wall heaters and fire place logs will work with out power.

Douglas Alpenstock wrote:

Jack Adam wrote:Most NG and propane wall heaters and fire place logs will work with out power.

I think it depends on the design. Many fireplace inserts now use electric igniters and flame sensors that rely on electricity to the control board. Old ones, or the model that I deliberately installed, have a pilot light and thermocouple that doesn't require external power.

Jack Adam wrote:I did a quick search for them at the 2 big box stores where I live and looked at a mix of vented / unvented and NG / propane gas logs looking at the specifications pages and did not see anything about a power connection.  When looking at the inserts most were just the box that the logs went into.  The fan and log set were a different product.  Are we looking at the same stuff?

Liv Smith wrote:It looks like the answer will be "it depends".

If we're talking about a natural gas system that heats the whole house, meaning a natural gas forced air furnace, the answer is no, it won't work without electricity.

If we're referring to a wall or freestanding unit that only heats one room, that might work without electricity.

Do I have that right?

Liv Smith wrote:Thank you for your input, all of you.

I am having a hard time finding anything about "in ground heat pump". They must be rare?

Liv Smith wrote:Thank you for your input, all of you.

I am having a hard time finding anything about "in ground heat pump". They must be rare?

Douglas Alpenstock wrote:

Jack Adam wrote:I did a quick search for them at the 2 big box stores where I live and looked at a mix of vented / unvented and NG / propane gas logs looking at the specifications pages and did not see anything about a power connection.  When looking at the inserts most were just the box that the logs went into.  The fan and log set were a different product.  Are we looking at the same stuff?

Ah! Yes, they are different items entirely. I have not seen fire logs before. Mine is a high efficiency engineered insert with its own heat exchanger, and a combined exhaust chimney and external air intake installed in the old chimney flue. Essentially it's a furnace with a sealed glass door and fake ceramic logs so you can see the fire. Installed cost was about $5,000 CAD.

S Bengi wrote:With a propane tank onsite, I think it at least deserve a 60% Yes, but yes not all of the propanes have a pilot lght and operate with electricity.

Anne Miller wrote:Cities did not have natural gas because the distribution centers need electricity to run.

Will a xxxx system work when the power goes out? Give me sources and examples.

No, an electric baseboard system will not work when the power goes out. Electric baseboard systems rely on electricity to run and will not work without a power source. Sources to support this include:

1. Electric Baseboard Heaters, Energy.gov: https://www.energy.gov/energysaver/electric-resistance-heating

2. How Does an Electric Baseboard Heater Work?, Hunker: https://www.hunker.com/13416084/how-does-an-electric-baseboard-heater-work

3. Electric Baseboard Heating Systems, The Spruce: https://www.thespruce.com/electric-baseboard-heating-systems-4153020

No, a mini split system will not work when the power goes out. This is because mini split systems require electricity to run the compressor, fan and other components. Sources:

1. https://www.quora.com/Do-mini-split-air-conditioners-work-during-a-power-outage
2. https://www.homedepot.com/c/ab/mini-split-air-conditioners/9ba683603be9fa5395fab90a15f9cc9c
3. https://www.energyvanguard.com/blog/76558/Mini-Split-Air-Conditioner-or-Heat-Pump-for-Your-Home

No, an in ground heat pump system will not work when the power goes out. Heat pumps rely on electric power to run the compressor, fans and other components. Without power, the system is unable to operate. There are, however, some limited backup options that can provide limited heating during a power outage. The most common is a battery-powered heat pump system, which can provide limited heating for a few hours or until the power is restored. Sources and examples include:

1. Heat Pump Backup Systems – American Standard Heating & Air Conditioning, https://www.americanstandardair.com/heat-pump-backup-systems
2. Heat Pump Backup System – Trane, https://www.trane.com/residential/en/resources/heat-pump-backup-system.html
3. Heat Pump Backup System – Carrier, https://www.carrier.com/residential/en/us/products/heat-pump-backup-system/

Yes, a natural gas system can work when the power goes out. In fact, many homeowners rely on natural gas systems to power their homes if the power goes out. For example, during Hurricane Sandy in 2012, many residents of the East Coast were able to keep their homes warm and functional due to their natural gas heating systems.

In addition, natural gas appliances such as stoves, fireplaces, and generators can continue to be used when the power goes out. In some cases, these appliances may even be used to power the lights in a home.

Sources:

1. https://www.energysage.com/natural-gas/does-natural-gas-work-without-electricity/
2. https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/capital-weather-gang/post/power-out-natural-gas-heating-systems-can-still-keep-you-warm/2012/10/31/b7bf1e88-22b2-11e2-ac85-e669876c6a24_blog.html

Yes, a propane system can work when the power goes out. Propane systems are powered by an independent fuel source and can provide heat, hot water, and cooking capabilities even when the power is out. For example, the US Department of Energy states that, “Propane-fueled appliances are designed to operate during power outages, making propane a reliable energy source during storms and other emergency situations.” Additionally, they point out that “propane-powered generators can provide electricity during power outages.” Furthermore, many appliances such as refrigerators, water heaters, and ovens can be powered by propane, making propane a great choice for emergency situations.

Sources:
US Department of Energy - Propane: A Reliable Energy Source
https://www.energy.gov/energysaver/propane-reliable-energy-source

Yes, a wood stove system can work when the power goes out. For example, many homeowners have installed a wood stove, or fireplace insert, to serve as a primary source of heat during power outages. During a power outage, the stove can be used to heat the home without the need for electricity. Sources:

1. https://www.energyvanguard.com/blog/wood-stove-for-backup-heat
2. https://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/article/wood-stove-as-backup-heat-source
3. https://www.thisoldhouse.com/heating-cooling/21124609/wood-stove-backup-heat-for-the-home

No, a modern wood stove system will not work when the power goes out. The modern wood stove systems rely on electricity to power fans, controls, and other components. Without power, the stove will not function.

For example, a popular modern wood stove system, the Quadra-Fire Classic Bay 1200, requires electricity to power its blower fan, convection fan, and digital control system. These components work together to regulate temperature and ensure a steady, efficient burn.

Sources:

1. Quadra-Fire Classic Bay 1200 Manual: https://www.quadrafire.com/sites/default/files/downloads/manuals/classic_bay_1200_manual_rev_2017-03-17.pdf

2. "Pellet Stoves and Power Outages": https://www.thepelletguy.com/blog/pellet-stoves-and-power-outages/

No, a pellet stove system will not work when the power goes out. Pellet stoves require electricity to power the auger and fan that deliver the pellets to the burn pot and circulate the heated air. Without electricity, the stove will not function.

Sources:
1. https://www.pelletstovepro.com/pellet-stove-power-outage/
2. https://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/NTES/do-pellet-stoves-require-electricity-
3. https://www.thepelletguy.com/how-does-a-pellet-stove-work/

Yes, a masonry heater system can work when the power goes out. It is essentially a passive system that relies on heat transfer by conduction and radiation. The masonry mass absorbs and stores heat, and releases it gradually over a period of time. This means that even when the power goes out, it will still provide heat as the masonry mass slowly releases the stored heat.

For example, a masonry heater installed in a home in Norway was tested in the winter of 2018. During the test, the home's power was cut off for up to five hours at a time, and the masonry heater continued to provide heat throughout the duration of the power outage.

Sources:

1. “How a Masonry Heater Works.” Masonry Heater Association of North America, mha-net.org/how-masonry-heater-works/.

2. “Masonry Stove Tested during Power Outage.” Masonry Heater Association of North America, mha-net.org/masonry-stove-tested-during-power-outage/.

No, a Rocket Mass Heater system will not work when the power goes out. This is because a Rocket Mass Heater requires electricity to run the fan and pump, which are necessary to maintain the combustion process. Without the fan and pump, the system cannot produce the necessary heat.

Sources:

1. https://www.rmhbuilders.com/how-does-a-rocket-mass-heater-work/

2. https://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/article/rocket-mass-heaters-in-cold-climates

3. https://www.permaculturenews.org/2014/09/17/rocket-mass-heaters-faq-answers/

Jules Silverlock wrote:I asked https://beta.openai.com/playground?model=text-davinci-003 the following question for each category of heat.

Will a xxxx system work when the power goes out? Give me sources and examples.

- Not so sure these are correct as - like you guys have said - there can be lots of variables ... but wanted to post the AI results anyway


Electric Baseboard

No, an electric baseboard system will not work when the power goes out. Electric baseboard systems rely on electricity to run and will not work without a power source. Sources to support this include:

1. Electric Baseboard Heaters, Energy.gov: https://www.energy.gov/energysaver/electric-resistance-heating

2. How Does an Electric Baseboard Heater Work?, Hunker: https://www.hunker.com/13416084/how-does-an-electric-baseboard-heater-work

3. Electric Baseboard Heating Systems, The Spruce: https://www.thespruce.com/electric-baseboard-heating-systems-4153020

Mini Splits

No, a mini split system will not work when the power goes out. This is because mini split systems require electricity to run the compressor, fan and other components. Sources:

1. https://www.quora.com/Do-mini-split-air-conditioners-work-during-a-power-outage
2. https://www.homedepot.com/c/ab/mini-split-air-conditioners/9ba683603be9fa5395fab90a15f9cc9c
3. https://www.energyvanguard.com/blog/76558/Mini-Split-Air-Conditioner-or-Heat-Pump-for-Your-Home

In Ground Heat Pump

No, an in ground heat pump system will not work when the power goes out. Heat pumps rely on electric power to run the compressor, fans and other components. Without power, the system is unable to operate. There are, however, some limited backup options that can provide limited heating during a power outage. The most common is a battery-powered heat pump system, which can provide limited heating for a few hours or until the power is restored. Sources and examples include:

1. Heat Pump Backup Systems – American Standard Heating & Air Conditioning, https://www.americanstandardair.com/heat-pump-backup-systems
2. Heat Pump Backup System – Trane, https://www.trane.com/residential/en/resources/heat-pump-backup-system.html
3. Heat Pump Backup System – Carrier, https://www.carrier.com/residential/en/us/products/heat-pump-backup-system/

Natural Gas

Yes, a natural gas system can work when the power goes out. In fact, many homeowners rely on natural gas systems to power their homes if the power goes out. For example, during Hurricane Sandy in 2012, many residents of the East Coast were able to keep their homes warm and functional due to their natural gas heating systems.

In addition, natural gas appliances such as stoves, fireplaces, and generators can continue to be used when the power goes out. In some cases, these appliances may even be used to power the lights in a home.

Sources:

1. https://www.energysage.com/natural-gas/does-natural-gas-work-without-electricity/
2. https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/capital-weather-gang/post/power-out-natural-gas-heating-systems-can-still-keep-you-warm/2012/10/31/b7bf1e88-22b2-11e2-ac85-e669876c6a24_blog.html

Propane

Yes, a propane system can work when the power goes out. Propane systems are powered by an independent fuel source and can provide heat, hot water, and cooking capabilities even when the power is out. For example, the US Department of Energy states that, “Propane-fueled appliances are designed to operate during power outages, making propane a reliable energy source during storms and other emergency situations.” Additionally, they point out that “propane-powered generators can provide electricity during power outages.” Furthermore, many appliances such as refrigerators, water heaters, and ovens can be powered by propane, making propane a great choice for emergency situations.

Sources:
US Department of Energy - Propane: A Reliable Energy Source
https://www.energy.gov/energysaver/propane-reliable-energy-source

Wood Stove

Yes, a wood stove system can work when the power goes out. For example, many homeowners have installed a wood stove, or fireplace insert, to serve as a primary source of heat during power outages. During a power outage, the stove can be used to heat the home without the need for electricity. Sources:

1. https://www.energyvanguard.com/blog/wood-stove-for-backup-heat
2. https://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/article/wood-stove-as-backup-heat-source
3. https://www.thisoldhouse.com/heating-cooling/21124609/wood-stove-backup-heat-for-the-home

Modern wood stove

No, a modern wood stove system will not work when the power goes out. The modern wood stove systems rely on electricity to power fans, controls, and other components. Without power, the stove will not function.

For example, a popular modern wood stove system, the Quadra-Fire Classic Bay 1200, requires electricity to power its blower fan, convection fan, and digital control system. These components work together to regulate temperature and ensure a steady, efficient burn.

Sources:

1. Quadra-Fire Classic Bay 1200 Manual: https://www.quadrafire.com/sites/default/files/downloads/manuals/classic_bay_1200_manual_rev_2017-03-17.pdf

2. "Pellet Stoves and Power Outages": https://www.thepelletguy.com/blog/pellet-stoves-and-power-outages/

Pellet Stove

No, a pellet stove system will not work when the power goes out. Pellet stoves require electricity to power the auger and fan that deliver the pellets to the burn pot and circulate the heated air. Without electricity, the stove will not function.

Sources:
1. https://www.pelletstovepro.com/pellet-stove-power-outage/
2. https://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/NTES/do-pellet-stoves-require-electricity-
3. https://www.thepelletguy.com/how-does-a-pellet-stove-work/

Masonry Heater

Yes, a masonry heater system can work when the power goes out. It is essentially a passive system that relies on heat transfer by conduction and radiation. The masonry mass absorbs and stores heat, and releases it gradually over a period of time. This means that even when the power goes out, it will still provide heat as the masonry mass slowly releases the stored heat.

For example, a masonry heater installed in a home in Norway was tested in the winter of 2018. During the test, the home's power was cut off for up to five hours at a time, and the masonry heater continued to provide heat throughout the duration of the power outage.

Sources:

1. “How a Masonry Heater Works.” Masonry Heater Association of North America, mha-net.org/how-masonry-heater-works/.

2. “Masonry Stove Tested during Power Outage.” Masonry Heater Association of North America, mha-net.org/masonry-stove-tested-during-power-outage/.

Rocket Mass Heater

No, a Rocket Mass Heater system will not work when the power goes out. This is because a Rocket Mass Heater requires electricity to run the fan and pump, which are necessary to maintain the combustion process. Without the fan and pump, the system cannot produce the necessary heat.

Sources:

1. https://www.rmhbuilders.com/how-does-a-rocket-mass-heater-work/

2. https://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/article/rocket-mass-heaters-in-cold-climates

3. https://www.permaculturenews.org/2014/09/17/rocket-mass-heaters-faq-answers/

Will a xxxx system work when the power goes out? Give me sources and examples.

Rocket Mass Heater

No, a Rocket Mass Heater system will not work when the power goes out. This is because a Rocket Mass Heater requires electricity to run the fan and pump, which are necessary to maintain the combustion process. Without the fan and pump, the system cannot produce the necessary heat.

Sources:

1. https://www.rmhbuilders.com/how-does-a-rocket-mass-heater-work/

2. https://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/article/rocket-mass-heaters-in-cold-climates

3. https://www.permaculturenews.org/2014/09/17/rocket-mass-heaters-faq-answers/

Beau Davidson wrote:We need to watch out for this AI data.  I provides a starting point, and a place to look for sources, but often arrives at very false conclusions.  Case in point:  

Will a xxxx system work when the power goes out? Give me sources and examples.

Rocket Mass Heater

No, a Rocket Mass Heater system will not work when the power goes out. This is because a Rocket Mass Heater requires electricity to run the fan and pump, which are necessary to maintain the combustion process. Without the fan and pump, the system cannot produce the necessary heat.

Sources:

1. https://www.rmhbuilders.com/how-does-a-rocket-mass-heater-work/

2. https://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/article/rocket-mass-heaters-in-cold-climates

3. https://www.permaculturenews.org/2014/09/17/rocket-mass-heaters-faq-answers/

I assumed it confused an rmh for a wood fired boiler.
Also I noticed both those reference links are dead.

Beau Davidson wrote:We need to watch out for this AI data.  I provides a starting point, and a place to look for sources, but often arrives at very false conclusions.