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Here is the working thread of all the data collected: https://permies.com/wiki/204534/creating-heat-infographic

The row for this thread is Will the system operate when the power goes out? and will contain data for the following types of heating systems:



Electric Baseboard - No


Mini Splits - No


In Ground Heat Pump - No


Central Natural Gas Furnace - No

Requires fans to move the heated air about the house.  Most systems require a fan to move the exhaust outside.


Central Propane Furnace - No

Requires fans to move the heated air about the house.  Most systems require a fan to move the exhaust outside.


Pellet Stove - Sometimes

Most systems require a fan to move the exhaust outside.

Most systems require electricity to control the pellet hopper feed rate.

Some systems, like the Liberator, can burn pellets without any electricity.


Wood Stove - Yes


Modern wood stove - Usually

Note that some stoves will not operate, or will operate poorly without electricity.  


Masonry Heater - Yes


Rocket Mass Heater - Yes

COMMENTS:
 
steward
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Does anyone know if in ground heat pump can run without electricity?
 
Liv Smith
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How about a propane furnace? Anyone knows if they can run without electricity?
 
master pollinator
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Christine Circe wrote:This thread is to discuss/establish which heating system can operate when the power is out.

Natural Gas    NO


Propane   I think the answer is NO


Pellet Stove   NO




I assume this refers specifically to 120/240VAC grid electricity?

Natural gas:
It depends.
- Modern furnaces generally require power from the grid or a generator or a pure sine wave inverter.
- Older furnaces with a pilot light can be tricked into lighting the main burner for approx. 60 seconds. This allows some hot air convection flow through the ductwork, but it is not full operation. This is for emergency situations. It is a manual operation, requiring great caution and care.
- Some NatGas inserts, like the one I chose for my living room, can operate at full throttle without any electricity at all. They cost more, because they are heavy duty and designed for this task. Since our gas network is independently powered, it will continue to operate during a grid outage. This is not the case in all jurisdictions.

Propane:
- same as above, to the best of my knowledge

Pellet Stoves:
It depends.
- Some stoves are designed with the option to operate on 12VDC power for their augers and blowers.
 
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Most NG and propane wall heaters and fire place logs will work with out power.
 
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I have small propane space heaters that work without electricity.  I also had a propane wall mount heater, which is what I assume Jack is talking about, that worked to heat my old metalsmithing studio without electric power.  
 
Douglas Alpenstock
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Jack Adam wrote:Most NG and propane wall heaters and fire place logs will work with out power.


I think it depends on the design. Many fireplace inserts now use electric igniters and flame sensors that rely on electricity to the control board. Old ones, or the model that I deliberately installed, have a pilot light and thermocouple that doesn't require external power.
 
Jack Adam
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Douglas Alpenstock wrote:

Jack Adam wrote:Most NG and propane wall heaters and fire place logs will work with out power.


I think it depends on the design. Many fireplace inserts now use electric igniters and flame sensors that rely on electricity to the control board. Old ones, or the model that I deliberately installed, have a pilot light and thermocouple that doesn't require external power.



I did not know they were making them like that now.  Who would think it would be smart to put a 120 volt power box in a fireplace?

After looking at the wall hung units there was a mix of units that called for power, but unsure if it was just for the fan in the unit.  I did not know these had fans now.

I did a quick search for them at the 2 big box stores where I live and looked at a mix of vented / unvented and NG / propane gas logs looking at the specifications pages and did not see anything about a power connection.  When looking at the inserts most were just the box that the logs went into.  The fan and log set were a different product.  Are we looking at the same stuff?
 
Douglas Alpenstock
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Jack Adam wrote:I did a quick search for them at the 2 big box stores where I live and looked at a mix of vented / unvented and NG / propane gas logs looking at the specifications pages and did not see anything about a power connection.  When looking at the inserts most were just the box that the logs went into.  The fan and log set were a different product.  Are we looking at the same stuff?


Ah! Yes, they are different items entirely. I have not seen fire logs before. Mine is a high efficiency engineered insert with its own heat exchanger, and a combined exhaust chimney and external air intake installed in the old chimney flue. Essentially it's a furnace with a sealed glass door and fake ceramic logs so you can see the fire. Installed cost was about $5,000 CAD.
 
Liv Smith
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It looks like the answer will be "it depends".

If we're talking about a natural gas system that heats the whole house, meaning a natural gas forced air furnace, the answer is no, it won't work without electricity.

If we're referring to a wall or freestanding unit that only heats one room, that might work without electricity.

Do I have that right?
 
Douglas Alpenstock
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Yes, if the grid goes down, that's generally right.
 
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Liv Smith wrote:It looks like the answer will be "it depends".

If we're talking about a natural gas system that heats the whole house, meaning a natural gas forced air furnace, the answer is no, it won't work without electricity.

If we're referring to a wall or freestanding unit that only heats one room, that might work without electricity.

Do I have that right?



Umm, yes~ish. Maybe for the US but in the UK, it's a bit different. Most houses use hydronic gas central heating systems, these have a small pump (50-60W) and a control system that could easily be run off an old computer UPS.

This is assuming we're talking about a short blackout (few days) not the end of the world.
 
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With a propane tank onsite, I think it at least deserve a 60% Yes, but yes not all of the propanes have a pilot lght and operate with electricity.
 
Liv Smith
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Thank you for your input, all of you.

I am having a hard time finding anything about "in ground heat pump". They must be rare?
 
James Alun
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Liv Smith wrote:Thank you for your input, all of you.

I am having a hard time finding anything about "in ground heat pump". They must be rare?



Try searching for "Ground source" heat pump. It the same basic technology as other heatpumps (air, fridges...), all will require a good chunk of energy to run (multiple KW). I seem to remember that 5:1 cop is decent, you can get 5 times as much heat out of the system as you put in because it draws all of the rest of the heat from the environment.
 
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Liv Smith wrote:Thank you for your input, all of you.

I am having a hard time finding anything about "in ground heat pump". They must be rare?


In ground Heat pumps are usually composed of 3 parts.
1)in ground water loop with a circulator motor on it - Low draw typically under 200 watts/hr AC grid powered
2) Heat pump unit which transfers the heat from the water to the air handler or hydronics This is a big compressor and uses most of the power it is grid powered
3) Furnace fan to move the hot air around your house also Grid powered

Smaller systems can be run off grid or by large generator but its a challenge

Cheers,  David
 
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It probably would be of use to try to track down loads characterizing the different systems.  After having a new propane system installed this past summer, I was thinking it would need the same electrical juice to operate as our old oil-burner.  It was surprising to find, however, many YouTube videos on operating a propane (and natural gas???) furnace using a single deep cycle battery and an inverter.  In one case, the person determined that the 'spike' wattage to start the blower motor was about 1400W and the running wattage was about 600.  The duration of this set-up until you needed to swap (or recharge) the battery would depend on how often the thermostat 'called' for heat in the house.  Clearly some wiring knowledge is involved to provide the right connections for this, but good to know it can be done!
 
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Liv,

I am going to echo what James just said.  A ground-source heat pump is conceptually similar to an air conditioner, with a compressor moving a compressible fluid (refrigerant).  I looked at installing one of these but they were prohibitively expensive.  And they do require a hefty chunk of electricity to run.

Eric
 
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Douglas Alpenstock wrote:

Jack Adam wrote:I did a quick search for them at the 2 big box stores where I live and looked at a mix of vented / unvented and NG / propane gas logs looking at the specifications pages and did not see anything about a power connection.  When looking at the inserts most were just the box that the logs went into.  The fan and log set were a different product.  Are we looking at the same stuff?


Ah! Yes, they are different items entirely. I have not seen fire logs before. Mine is a high efficiency engineered insert with its own heat exchanger, and a combined exhaust chimney and external air intake installed in the old chimney flue. Essentially it's a furnace with a sealed glass door and fake ceramic logs so you can see the fire. Installed cost was about $5,000 CAD.



I have seen those a few times, but they are not popular where I'm at in the USA.
 
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S Bengi wrote:With a propane tank onsite, I think it at least deserve a 60% Yes, but yes not all of the propanes have a pilot lght and operate with electricity.



My propane stove for cooking has electronic ignition for the burners.

To make it work all we need is matches.

I think it was decided that with the 2021 storm. Cities did not have natural gas because the distribution centers need electricity to run.

During the rolling blackouts, we were toasty and warm.  A stove to cook with and a heater to keep us warm and prepare meals as usual

We set everything up before we knew anything about the Rocket mass heaters.
 
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Anne Miller wrote:Cities did not have natural gas because the distribution centers need electricity to run.


Aside: That is true in many places, where natural gas compressors are powered by the electrical grid. In other places, the compressors run on the fuel they are moving, which also generates power for the control systems and telemetry that keeps them operational -- an independent grid, at least for a while. GE turboprop jet engines are commonly used.
 
Anne Miller
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Thanks, Doug for the explanation.

I have not lived where there is natural gas in over 20 years.

My only knowledge is from the threads from Jan 2021, or later, when all the folks were talking about buying different kinds of heaters.

My experience with natural gas (when we lived in a big city) was that even without electricity we had natural gas.

Though in those threads folks said that was not the case.
 
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I asked https://beta.openai.com/playground?model=text-davinci-003 the following question for each category of heat.

Will a xxxx system work when the power goes out? Give me sources and examples.



- Not so sure these are correct as - like you guys have said - there can be lots of variables ... but wanted to post the AI results anyway


Electric Baseboard

No, an electric baseboard system will not work when the power goes out. Electric baseboard systems rely on electricity to run and will not work without a power source. Sources to support this include:

1. Electric Baseboard Heaters, Energy.gov: https://www.energy.gov/energysaver/electric-resistance-heating

2. How Does an Electric Baseboard Heater Work?, Hunker: https://www.hunker.com/13416084/how-does-an-electric-baseboard-heater-work

3. Electric Baseboard Heating Systems, The Spruce: https://www.thespruce.com/electric-baseboard-heating-systems-4153020


Mini Splits

No, a mini split system will not work when the power goes out. This is because mini split systems require electricity to run the compressor, fan and other components. Sources:

1. https://www.quora.com/Do-mini-split-air-conditioners-work-during-a-power-outage
2. https://www.homedepot.com/c/ab/mini-split-air-conditioners/9ba683603be9fa5395fab90a15f9cc9c
3. https://www.energyvanguard.com/blog/76558/Mini-Split-Air-Conditioner-or-Heat-Pump-for-Your-Home



In Ground Heat Pump

No, an in ground heat pump system will not work when the power goes out. Heat pumps rely on electric power to run the compressor, fans and other components. Without power, the system is unable to operate. There are, however, some limited backup options that can provide limited heating during a power outage. The most common is a battery-powered heat pump system, which can provide limited heating for a few hours or until the power is restored. Sources and examples include:

1. Heat Pump Backup Systems – American Standard Heating & Air Conditioning, https://www.americanstandardair.com/heat-pump-backup-systems
2. Heat Pump Backup System – Trane, https://www.trane.com/residential/en/resources/heat-pump-backup-system.html
3. Heat Pump Backup System – Carrier, https://www.carrier.com/residential/en/us/products/heat-pump-backup-system/


Natural Gas

Yes, a natural gas system can work when the power goes out. In fact, many homeowners rely on natural gas systems to power their homes if the power goes out. For example, during Hurricane Sandy in 2012, many residents of the East Coast were able to keep their homes warm and functional due to their natural gas heating systems.

In addition, natural gas appliances such as stoves, fireplaces, and generators can continue to be used when the power goes out. In some cases, these appliances may even be used to power the lights in a home.

Sources:

1. https://www.energysage.com/natural-gas/does-natural-gas-work-without-electricity/
2. https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/capital-weather-gang/post/power-out-natural-gas-heating-systems-can-still-keep-you-warm/2012/10/31/b7bf1e88-22b2-11e2-ac85-e669876c6a24_blog.html



Propane

Yes, a propane system can work when the power goes out. Propane systems are powered by an independent fuel source and can provide heat, hot water, and cooking capabilities even when the power is out. For example, the US Department of Energy states that, “Propane-fueled appliances are designed to operate during power outages, making propane a reliable energy source during storms and other emergency situations.” Additionally, they point out that “propane-powered generators can provide electricity during power outages.” Furthermore, many appliances such as refrigerators, water heaters, and ovens can be powered by propane, making propane a great choice for emergency situations.

Sources:
US Department of Energy - Propane: A Reliable Energy Source
https://www.energy.gov/energysaver/propane-reliable-energy-source



Wood Stove

Yes, a wood stove system can work when the power goes out. For example, many homeowners have installed a wood stove, or fireplace insert, to serve as a primary source of heat during power outages. During a power outage, the stove can be used to heat the home without the need for electricity. Sources:

1. https://www.energyvanguard.com/blog/wood-stove-for-backup-heat
2. https://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/article/wood-stove-as-backup-heat-source
3. https://www.thisoldhouse.com/heating-cooling/21124609/wood-stove-backup-heat-for-the-home


Modern wood stove

No, a modern wood stove system will not work when the power goes out. The modern wood stove systems rely on electricity to power fans, controls, and other components. Without power, the stove will not function.

For example, a popular modern wood stove system, the Quadra-Fire Classic Bay 1200, requires electricity to power its blower fan, convection fan, and digital control system. These components work together to regulate temperature and ensure a steady, efficient burn.

Sources:

1. Quadra-Fire Classic Bay 1200 Manual: https://www.quadrafire.com/sites/default/files/downloads/manuals/classic_bay_1200_manual_rev_2017-03-17.pdf

2. "Pellet Stoves and Power Outages": https://www.thepelletguy.com/blog/pellet-stoves-and-power-outages/


Pellet Stove

No, a pellet stove system will not work when the power goes out. Pellet stoves require electricity to power the auger and fan that deliver the pellets to the burn pot and circulate the heated air. Without electricity, the stove will not function.

Sources:
1. https://www.pelletstovepro.com/pellet-stove-power-outage/
2. https://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/NTES/do-pellet-stoves-require-electricity-
3. https://www.thepelletguy.com/how-does-a-pellet-stove-work/



Masonry Heater

Yes, a masonry heater system can work when the power goes out. It is essentially a passive system that relies on heat transfer by conduction and radiation. The masonry mass absorbs and stores heat, and releases it gradually over a period of time. This means that even when the power goes out, it will still provide heat as the masonry mass slowly releases the stored heat.

For example, a masonry heater installed in a home in Norway was tested in the winter of 2018. During the test, the home's power was cut off for up to five hours at a time, and the masonry heater continued to provide heat throughout the duration of the power outage.

Sources:

1. “How a Masonry Heater Works.” Masonry Heater Association of North America, mha-net.org/how-masonry-heater-works/.

2. “Masonry Stove Tested during Power Outage.” Masonry Heater Association of North America, mha-net.org/masonry-stove-tested-during-power-outage/.



Rocket Mass Heater

No, a Rocket Mass Heater system will not work when the power goes out. This is because a Rocket Mass Heater requires electricity to run the fan and pump, which are necessary to maintain the combustion process. Without the fan and pump, the system cannot produce the necessary heat.

Sources:

1. https://www.rmhbuilders.com/how-does-a-rocket-mass-heater-work/

2. https://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/article/rocket-mass-heaters-in-cold-climates

3. https://www.permaculturenews.org/2014/09/17/rocket-mass-heaters-faq-answers/

 
David Baillie
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Jules Silverlock wrote:I asked https://beta.openai.com/playground?model=text-davinci-003 the following question for each category of heat.

Will a xxxx system work when the power goes out? Give me sources and examples.



- Not so sure these are correct as - like you guys have said - there can be lots of variables ... but wanted to post the AI results anyway


Electric Baseboard

No, an electric baseboard system will not work when the power goes out. Electric baseboard systems rely on electricity to run and will not work without a power source. Sources to support this include:

1. Electric Baseboard Heaters, Energy.gov: https://www.energy.gov/energysaver/electric-resistance-heating

2. How Does an Electric Baseboard Heater Work?, Hunker: https://www.hunker.com/13416084/how-does-an-electric-baseboard-heater-work

3. Electric Baseboard Heating Systems, The Spruce: https://www.thespruce.com/electric-baseboard-heating-systems-4153020


Mini Splits

No, a mini split system will not work when the power goes out. This is because mini split systems require electricity to run the compressor, fan and other components. Sources:

1. https://www.quora.com/Do-mini-split-air-conditioners-work-during-a-power-outage
2. https://www.homedepot.com/c/ab/mini-split-air-conditioners/9ba683603be9fa5395fab90a15f9cc9c
3. https://www.energyvanguard.com/blog/76558/Mini-Split-Air-Conditioner-or-Heat-Pump-for-Your-Home



In Ground Heat Pump

No, an in ground heat pump system will not work when the power goes out. Heat pumps rely on electric power to run the compressor, fans and other components. Without power, the system is unable to operate. There are, however, some limited backup options that can provide limited heating during a power outage. The most common is a battery-powered heat pump system, which can provide limited heating for a few hours or until the power is restored. Sources and examples include:

1. Heat Pump Backup Systems – American Standard Heating & Air Conditioning, https://www.americanstandardair.com/heat-pump-backup-systems
2. Heat Pump Backup System – Trane, https://www.trane.com/residential/en/resources/heat-pump-backup-system.html
3. Heat Pump Backup System – Carrier, https://www.carrier.com/residential/en/us/products/heat-pump-backup-system/


Natural Gas

Yes, a natural gas system can work when the power goes out. In fact, many homeowners rely on natural gas systems to power their homes if the power goes out. For example, during Hurricane Sandy in 2012, many residents of the East Coast were able to keep their homes warm and functional due to their natural gas heating systems.

In addition, natural gas appliances such as stoves, fireplaces, and generators can continue to be used when the power goes out. In some cases, these appliances may even be used to power the lights in a home.

Sources:

1. https://www.energysage.com/natural-gas/does-natural-gas-work-without-electricity/
2. https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/capital-weather-gang/post/power-out-natural-gas-heating-systems-can-still-keep-you-warm/2012/10/31/b7bf1e88-22b2-11e2-ac85-e669876c6a24_blog.html



Propane

Yes, a propane system can work when the power goes out. Propane systems are powered by an independent fuel source and can provide heat, hot water, and cooking capabilities even when the power is out. For example, the US Department of Energy states that, “Propane-fueled appliances are designed to operate during power outages, making propane a reliable energy source during storms and other emergency situations.” Additionally, they point out that “propane-powered generators can provide electricity during power outages.” Furthermore, many appliances such as refrigerators, water heaters, and ovens can be powered by propane, making propane a great choice for emergency situations.

Sources:
US Department of Energy - Propane: A Reliable Energy Source
https://www.energy.gov/energysaver/propane-reliable-energy-source



Wood Stove

Yes, a wood stove system can work when the power goes out. For example, many homeowners have installed a wood stove, or fireplace insert, to serve as a primary source of heat during power outages. During a power outage, the stove can be used to heat the home without the need for electricity. Sources:

1. https://www.energyvanguard.com/blog/wood-stove-for-backup-heat
2. https://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/article/wood-stove-as-backup-heat-source
3. https://www.thisoldhouse.com/heating-cooling/21124609/wood-stove-backup-heat-for-the-home


Modern wood stove

No, a modern wood stove system will not work when the power goes out. The modern wood stove systems rely on electricity to power fans, controls, and other components. Without power, the stove will not function.

For example, a popular modern wood stove system, the Quadra-Fire Classic Bay 1200, requires electricity to power its blower fan, convection fan, and digital control system. These components work together to regulate temperature and ensure a steady, efficient burn.

Sources:

1. Quadra-Fire Classic Bay 1200 Manual: https://www.quadrafire.com/sites/default/files/downloads/manuals/classic_bay_1200_manual_rev_2017-03-17.pdf

2. "Pellet Stoves and Power Outages": https://www.thepelletguy.com/blog/pellet-stoves-and-power-outages/


Pellet Stove

No, a pellet stove system will not work when the power goes out. Pellet stoves require electricity to power the auger and fan that deliver the pellets to the burn pot and circulate the heated air. Without electricity, the stove will not function.

Sources:
1. https://www.pelletstovepro.com/pellet-stove-power-outage/
2. https://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/NTES/do-pellet-stoves-require-electricity-
3. https://www.thepelletguy.com/how-does-a-pellet-stove-work/



Masonry Heater

Yes, a masonry heater system can work when the power goes out. It is essentially a passive system that relies on heat transfer by conduction and radiation. The masonry mass absorbs and stores heat, and releases it gradually over a period of time. This means that even when the power goes out, it will still provide heat as the masonry mass slowly releases the stored heat.

For example, a masonry heater installed in a home in Norway was tested in the winter of 2018. During the test, the home's power was cut off for up to five hours at a time, and the masonry heater continued to provide heat throughout the duration of the power outage.

Sources:

1. “How a Masonry Heater Works.” Masonry Heater Association of North America, mha-net.org/how-masonry-heater-works/.

2. “Masonry Stove Tested during Power Outage.” Masonry Heater Association of North America, mha-net.org/masonry-stove-tested-during-power-outage/.



Rocket Mass Heater

No, a Rocket Mass Heater system will not work when the power goes out. This is because a Rocket Mass Heater requires electricity to run the fan and pump, which are necessary to maintain the combustion process. Without the fan and pump, the system cannot produce the necessary heat.

Sources:

1. https://www.rmhbuilders.com/how-does-a-rocket-mass-heater-work/

2. https://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/article/rocket-mass-heaters-in-cold-climates

3. https://www.permaculturenews.org/2014/09/17/rocket-mass-heaters-faq-answers/



So A question: would it be a worthwhile addition to add something about ease of backup? Some heat sources cannot be backed up, some with great difficulty, some medium others easily. I classified the heat sources as easy to impossible. Basically if the electricity is the fuel its almost impossible. If the heat source burns a fuel but uses electricity to circulate the heat its difficult to medium. If electricity is only used for control or heat extraction its easy to medium. All in my and only my opinion of course, prices may vary, not valid in some states... etc etc.

Pellet stove: dead in the water without power, ease of back up medium as it requires about 1-2 Kwhr per day for fans and auger and they run the whole time it is on.
Advanced woodstoves: Usually have a blower fan and a thermostat for activating it but the stove does not really need it to operate efficiently its just to move the heat around better.  ease of backup: easy as the fan is optional
RMH: not sure on that one but I will assume if there is a fan it runs only as long as the burn lasts and the stove is burning in batches. Is that correct? I would classify it as easy to medium to backup then.
Propane stove easy to medium again as the fans are normally optional for best efficiency
propane and nat gas furnace: dead in the water without power, medium to hard to backup as they usually have hardwired blower fans and thermostats requiring a special wired in box to allow them to be plugged in to a generator or hardwired to a backup panel.
wood boiler medium to hard to back up as they have pumps, electronics, powered baffles and sometimes blower fans for circulating air in the house all of which are usually hardwired requiring a backup panel
mini splits hard to impossible as you would require about 1kWhr of electricity per 8-10000BTU to run the thing and they are usually hardwired at 220 requiring a generator backup panel
Ground source heat pump hard to impossible for same reasons as mini split
electric baseboards I'll go right ahead and say impossible for obvious reasons.
 
steward
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We need to watch out for this AI data.  I provides a starting point, and a place to look for sources, but often arrives at very false conclusions.  Case in point:  

Will a xxxx system work when the power goes out? Give me sources and examples.



Rocket Mass Heater

No, a Rocket Mass Heater system will not work when the power goes out. This is because a Rocket Mass Heater requires electricity to run the fan and pump, which are necessary to maintain the combustion process. Without the fan and pump, the system cannot produce the necessary heat.

Sources:

1. https://www.rmhbuilders.com/how-does-a-rocket-mass-heater-work/

2. https://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/article/rocket-mass-heaters-in-cold-climates

3. https://www.permaculturenews.org/2014/09/17/rocket-mass-heaters-faq-answers/

 
David Baillie
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Beau Davidson wrote:We need to watch out for this AI data.  I provides a starting point, and a place to look for sources, but often arrives at very false conclusions.  Case in point:  

Will a xxxx system work when the power goes out? Give me sources and examples.



Rocket Mass Heater

No, a Rocket Mass Heater system will not work when the power goes out. This is because a Rocket Mass Heater requires electricity to run the fan and pump, which are necessary to maintain the combustion process. Without the fan and pump, the system cannot produce the necessary heat.

Sources:

1. https://www.rmhbuilders.com/how-does-a-rocket-mass-heater-work/

2. https://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/article/rocket-mass-heaters-in-cold-climates

3. https://www.permaculturenews.org/2014/09/17/rocket-mass-heaters-faq-answers/


I assumed it confused an rmh for a wood fired boiler.
Also I noticed both those reference links are dead.

 
pollinator
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Same with "modern wood stove".  I think they are talking about an outdoor, or large indoor wood furnace.  I have two "modern woodstoves".  They don't use electricity for anything.  That, and for the cost savings in our very long and very cold winters, is why I installed them.

There are pellet stove models that don't use electricity as well and simply have a gravity feed pellet hopper.
 
Douglas Alpenstock
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Beau Davidson wrote:We need to watch out for this AI data.  I provides a starting point, and a place to look for sources, but often arrives at very false conclusions.  


Agreed. A "data dump" scraped from the web isn't helpful.

I think this forum works well because its members take the time to vet any links they post. That shows respect for the precious commodity of other members' time and attention. Which means, simply, being nice.
 
author and steward
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Mud and I filled in the blanks at the top.  Perfect?   :)

 
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