The 22 aspects of PEP

Is there a brainstorming thread created for animal care? Could anyone point me in that direction? Thank you.

Hi Liv, I think the current list of areas to work on is here: Please help me create BB wiki pages and other PEP pages

Liv Smith wrote:Is there a brainstorming thread created for animal care? Could anyone point me in that direction? Thank you.

Wow, we didn't have one.  

I started one real quick

https://permies.com/t/103030/brainstorming-animal-care

Hey Paul! I have a question for you. I was looking through the aspects and the brainstorming threads and I'm wondering what your thoughts are on adding say 1 more aspect that would focus on the online side of community building and commerce. What do you think?

Looking at the community aspect and the brainstorming thread for commerce it seems like both are focused on the in person side of things. Which I think is great and that side is very important! But I think an online focused aspect would bring a lot to PEP too. You have done a ton online to build community, bring in an income and promote permaculture. I think a PEP aspect that represents that side of what you do would be great.

Sand badge could focus on residual income, and being active on permies (X number of apples?). Perhaps a straw badge could increase those and add say creating your own website and getting X traffic. Then the wood badge could add in launching your own product online and making X income from it plus increasing the other BBs. The iron badge could add say a kickstarter campaign and publishing a book. I'm sure there are lots of other potential BBs for these badges.

I just feel like the online side of things is currently lacking a bit and since you have done so much in this space Paul it seems like an aspect that represents that would be a great thing. I also think it is a big enough area that it could easily be an aspect on its own. What do you think?

Daron,

What about the commerce badge?

I was looking at it but at least currently it seemed like the focus was on selling products from the farm/homestead at markets. I guess I see that side of things and the building an online community/business as being two different sets of skills. I could see a farmer/homesteader being very good at selling at farmers markets or to local stores, etc. but having very little in the way of an online presence. I could also imagine the opposite. It just seems to me that the set of skills a person needs for the 2 sides of things are very different and could be a hard fit for a single aspect.

Of course one option would be to make the commerce badge have bbs at all badge levels that represent both physical and online commerce. In our modern digital world that could be very useful.

Going off your Otis podcast... do you view potential Otis(s) as always being more the farmer/rancher type with a decent amount of land? Or could an Otis also be someone that has a homestead that was focused on providing for themselves and not selling what they raise/grow?

If the focus is on a farmer/rancher with more of a commercial focus then perhaps commerce with some good online focused bbs but also a lot of bbs focused on selling farm goods would be a good fit. Knowing both makes a lot of sense in that case. But if an Otis could be an aging homesteader with a relatively small amount of land that just wants to see someone inherit it that will value and respect the land then an online focused aspect could make more sense. Those skills could help make it more realistic to live as a homesteader and not need to work a day job or sell things at markets.

For example I'm building my own online business and having some success with it. But I have no clue how to sell things in a local market or to local businesses. I have not invested in learning that side of things and instead all my focus has been on the online side of things. During my time on permies I have seen stories of people just focusing on selling produce to local markets and businesses but not doing much online. Both can work and I guess my question is do you want the commerce badge to represent both options / require both? Or should it be split into 2 different aspects?

My personal view is that the physical market place selling and the online commerce/residual income/community building side of things are a lot to do justice in a single aspect or even represented in both the commerce and community aspects. It just seems like 2 different skill sets to me and complex enough to warrant its own aspect with a focused set of bbs.

But of course your call I just wanted to share my thoughts. If you think the current commerce aspect is the right place for the online side of things then I think I will make some suggestions for new bbs in the brainstorming thread for it. If you do want a new aspect I'm happy to help flesh it out and work on the bbs for it. Either way I'm happy to help I just want to help see the online side of things represented too.

I think that Otis is looking for somebody that is familiar with monetary transactions.   After all, a lot of rural "opportunities" need to be declined.  And yet, there are some that are wise to pursue.  Knowing the difference is in experience.  And if the person that Otis is looking hat has brought money in from several sources, including the internet, then I think Otis will be comfortable with that.  Otis is willing to will his land to somebody that will move things forward for 50 years.   Not somebody that is going to go bankrupt in three years.

Daron,

https://permies.com/t/102633/Commerce-badge-brainstorming

I hope this is the correct thread to post this question/train of thought in. (ETA: please tell me where to post it, if this is not the correct placement!)
I know that for some, PEP will be merely a way to guide and ensure they begin learning a series of things they have always wanted to learn, but perhaps did not know where to begin. They desire this for their own sense of knowing and doing on their own land.
Others are looking for an "Otis," searching for land, to show they are "worthy" of it (for lack of a better word).
And others, still, are looking for a working situation to apprentice under a current land-owner, and will perhaps use this as a way to show they are able to follow instructions and can learn new information, adapt to new input etc.

Being mindful of "Otis," who is typically older and probably adept enough to get online, but perhaps not savvy, I have pondered if keeping track of a person's BBs would be useful in individual's threads for taking part in PEP. Such as "Caitlyn's PEP Badge Bit Thread." The reason I have pondered this is so that one could reference an interested Otis to one thread, rather than 16-22 threads for them to hunt through and possibly become frustrated and give up searching (I know several elders that would be overwhelmed to do so)?  If they can be referenced to that individual's BB thread, they can quickly look through all of the individual's work they are possibly interested in willing land to or, in the case of a farm hand, hiring.

I hope I made sense and that I don't step on any toes. I am totally new here and don't want to upset anyone. Just tossing some thoughts out that I have been mulling over, as we decide what avenue we would like to take to try to get out of a mobile home park!

Having done a few badge bits, and rather lost track of the ones I've done, I'm thinking this is a good idea. I'm not sure if we want it in the PEP forum, or if we'll end up with enough people doing it to make it it's own PEP Records (or some other, better name) Forum.... Probably start the thread in the PEP Forum, and if we get enough such threads, we make them their own forum.

Nicole Alderman wrote:Having done a few badge bits, and rather lost track of the ones I've done, I'm thinking this is a good idea. I'm not sure if we want it in the PEP forum, or if we'll end up with enough people doing it to make it it's own PEP Records (or some other, better name) Forum.... Probably start the thread in the PEP Forum, and if we get enough such threads, we make them their own forum.

It just occurred to me, as well, that by keeping an individual's BBs in their own thread, it would enable staff, etc, to note that possibly one project encompassed more than one BB, and note it in-thread, rather than having to add the same information to a different thread.

I think having a thread that is "my PEP journey" is a good thread.

If this forum gets a bit full of threads like that, we could consider creating a new forum and moving those threads to the new forum.

You could even make the first post of your personal thread be a wiki summary of "best of".

Correct me if I missed it, but do we have a category that is about handling household/homestead waste resources:  trash (reducing it!), recycling, reusing, free shelf, thrift store, online re-sales, fire starters, fire fuel, kitchen scraps (for animals or compost/sheet mulch), material to use as garden mulch, lint as fire starter, etc?

I think the percent of time dealing with waste resources is HUGE.

(Note the phrase "waste resources" - the problem is the solution and all that.)

Would you put this under Nest, Homestead, or Oddball? Or, would you make it a 23rd aspect?

Sounds like nest to me.  Or maybe oddball.

paul wheaton wrote:You could even make the first post of your personal thread be a wiki summary of "best of".

It might also be handy for marking off the ones a person has completed. I know I went to go and apply for the roundwood woodworking badge, only to realize I still hadn't made the hugel-siege-ladder-thing. If I'd has a wiki, I could have listed it out, and easily seen what I'd accomplished. It might look something like this, but with the links leading to my individual posts:

sand badge

DONE! club style mallet (hand tools only)
DONE! compound mallet (smaller dry stick goes into bigger green stick (head)) (hand tools only)
DONE! carve a big, ugly, nearly useless spoon (hand tools only)
add one horizontal log to berm/hugelkultur scaffolding
DONE! dry peg in green wood project (build one):
   - coat hooks (4)
   - half log bench (six feet long) on four legs
   - saw horse
   - saw buck
   - DONE! stool
DONE! three log bench
DONE! two coat hooks made from small trees and the hooks are the branches on these trees
   - no need for any joinery

sand badge--DONE!!

DONE!brand a physical location
DONE! (thorn list) do two of the following:
  -DONE! upgrade a physical location that has already been branded (1.5 oddball points)
  - prepare a basic meal (and wash all the dishes) for at least 8 people
  - add one point to a geocaching list
  - public art (1.5 oddball points)
  - DONE!create (or update) a map showing the points of interest
  - teach a one hour workshop to 8 students and hold the attention of the 8 students for the full hour
  - organize a flash flea market, collective garage sale or free swap

sand badge

DONE! darn a sock
DONE! sew a patch onto one of the following:
   - an elbow of a shirt
   - DONE! the knee of pants
   - a quilt or tote bag
make a small pillow
make twine
DONE!  knit a hot pad or crochet dishcloth
woven basket

I'm also tempted to add in the lists I'm working on, with something to signify which Badge Bits I'm planning on doing, because some of the long listed ones are a bit overwhelming to look at. So here I went and bolded the ones I'm thinking of trying:

(joel list) complete five of:
   - build a nice birdhouse (prerequisite dimensional.sand.birdhouse)
       - built specifically for a species of bird
   - build a mason bee house (possibly other solitary bees)
   - build a ladybug house
   - build a bat house
   - build an insect hotel
   - scythe and bale one bale of hay
   - scythe and bale one bale of straw
   - DONE! plant a three season nectar harvest for pollinators
       - at least a dozen species
       - at least 200 seeds
   - create a brush pile near a garden for animal/insect diversity habitat
       - at least five feet tall and five feet wide
   - create six different toad habitats
   - plant 60 mulberry tree seeds
       - at least three feet apart
       - video showing the 60 seeds and then planting all 60
       - video is sped up so it is no longer than 2 minutes
   - create snake/lizard habitat
   - create a live mouse trap
       - need proof that it works
   - create at least a pint of holzer bone sauce
   - share appropriate kitchen scraps
       - appropriate for the animal
           - e.g. no chicken bones to chickens
       - four buckets
   - milk a cow or goat or sheep - one gallon
   - plant seeds for humming birds
       - at least 12 species
       - at least 200 seeds
   - make a bee/insect watering station
   - move a yellowjacket nest from where it is a bother to where it is a value
   - putting out some winter straw to help the animals stay warm
   - fecal parasite test
   - (sheep) health check
       - at least 4 sheep; must do all of the animals at the same time
       - round them all up into a small corral
       - clean their feet
       - check for
           - parasites (especially eyes and butt)
           - spot check through the wool
           - color of their gums
           - color of the inner eyelid
           - smell of their breath
  - training animals for goodies
       - calling “goat goat goat” and the goats get treats
       - calling “pig pig pig” and the pigs get treats
       - calling “chick chick chick” and the chickens get treats
       - calling “cow cow cow” and the cows get treats
       - do this at least four times for one kind of animal
   - catch a honey bee swarm with a bait hive (aka swarm trap)
   - rescue a honey bee swarm
       - swarm is on a branch or something; move it to a box and then to hive
   - cleaning a shelter
       - brushing/scraping off dirt and poopies
       - a little DE along the edges and corners to control pests
       - super scrub the water stuff
       - making sure the dry supplements are ample and clean
           - salt
           - kelp meal /minerals
           - calcium (for chickens) (usually oyster shells)
           - baking soda
   - DONE! (chickens) cleaning out at least 4 nesting boxes
       - fresh straw
       - maybe add a little DE in the boxes
   - grow sprouts as a winter chicken feed
   - remove algae from a trout pond
   - add aeration strategy to a trout pond
   - stock a trout pond with trout
   - move animals to a new paddock
       - make sure they have good water and minerals
       - move the shelter

As to the difference between thread and wikis, I am totally lost here. I mean, I know what a wiki is, but I don't understand the difference in context within Permies. Is there a thread someone can direct me to about that so I can understand it? Thank you. I don't want to hijack the thread about that.

Ah! A wiki is a thread that can be edited by anyone, or just by the OP and staff. When you make a new thread, down below there's the little tabs that say "attachments" and "wiki." You pick the wiki tab and then click the button for making the thread a wiki.

When a thread is a wiki, it allows you to keep editing tje first post (usually a person's edit button runs out after a while), so you could keep going back and updating your first post to show which BBs you've completed.

Staff can edit anyone's wikis, but we don't go around editing people's personal wikis, just ones that are for public use [like the badge-bit wikis)

I wish there is a place devoted to seeds

Note to self: get into the habit of photo documenting the fixups I do around the home in case it becomes a badge-bit in the future.

J Webb wrote:Note to self: get into the habit of photo documenting the fixups I do around the home in case it becomes a badge-bit in the future.

Or push it into the oddball stuff.

Are all the PEP/X requirements nailed down? Are they collated somewhere and I've missed it? I am thinking like a downloadable pdf booklet that we could print out and highlight or cross off as we complete them?

Sonja Draven wrote:Are all the PEP/X requirements nailed down? Are they collated somewhere and I've missed it? I am thinking like a downloadable pdf booklet that we could print out and highlight or cross off as we complete them?

I dunno.

Maybe you are volunteering to sort out what is left to do?

I am very happy to help with that type of project!

Sonja Draven wrote:I am very happy to help with that type of project!

Spiffy!   I suppose the idea is to make a grand list of all the BBs and figure out what is currently missing.

Thanks, Paul.

So what I am thinking would be handy as a participant is a booklet that's organized alphabetically by the categories like cooking, animal care, etc. In each section you would then have all the cooking (for example) bits with bullet points showing what's required to complete it and a link for where to post to certify. Does that make sense and is it accurate?

Second, my understanding from your last post is that there isn't a list of the bits so I need to do my best to collate them from this site and then ask the experts what I missed. Is that correct?

I know that I have composed a bit of a book about PEP for the kickstarter.  And the part with the specific badges and BBs is blank, because I think those will be lifted from the forum - the most recent content.  At the same time I am also curious if there are some BB pages missing.   Or maybe there are some BB pages that could still use a bit of polish.

I have been traveling some. Did I miss you sending that out already? If you have, I will go back through my emails to find it.

If not, if you want to email what you have to me, I will start working on it in a few days when I am home again for a bit. I am excited to work on this! I used to be an admin and still enjoy using those skills.

The PEP book has not gone out yet.   But if you look at the start of this thread, you can see the 22 aspects ...  and how I was fleshing them out a bit .... to maybe halfway through ...

I have been working on this handbook a bit at a time most days and I just wanted to say a huge WOW to the people who have put all the work into creating the concepts, pages, handy links, etc.  It's taking more time than I anticipated because there is so much content (and there is a lot still in progress and being added / decided so I know that I'm only working on version 1 right now).  So this is just a shout out and thank you for all of the work here.  Particularly considering it is volunteer time, it's amazing.

Have you found some BBs that need further work?

There are a fair number that are in process where things haven't been fleshed out at all (I assume you are familiar with these but I am happy to list them if that would be helpful).  

There are also a fair number where there's a list of what's required to complete the badge but the specifics of certification aren't posted yet.  Example: tool care / straw badge.  There is a list of a bunch of things you need to sharpen but there isn't a link from them (as there is for other BB's) where it's spelled out that you need to post a picture of dull blade, sharp blade, tool you used to sharpen, etc.  Earthworks straw badge (and higher badges) are similar.  I think since these are fleshed out pretty well for the sand badge that a person could come to a logical conclusion about what's required though.

Is that what you meant?

Yes.   A list of the BBs that are missing.  

In the natural medicine section, sand badge, these ones are still in the works:

poultice (fresh or freeze) - create one
  plantain leaf
  comfrey leaf
  ginger root

syrup or gummies - create one
  rosehip
  echinacea blossom, leaf or root

create one infusion (hot or cold) from fresh or dried materials
  lavender blossom
  peppermint leaf

I would like to see more videos in PEP BB submissions.

So, ther are many off these BBs that I cant do for different reasons like the fact that I live off grid or climate etc. Can we submit a similar project that displays the same types of skills but are suited for my environment and lifestyle and still recieve credit?

Brian. Heineman wrote:So, ther are many off these BBs that I cant do for different reasons like the fact that I live off grid or climate etc. Can we submit a similar project that displays the same types of skills but are suited for my environment and lifestyle and still recieve credit?

No.

Question, and sorry if I've missed this in any of the other threads or if it's a better fit elsewhere -

I've noticed that there are BB's being added to the original list periodically.  That is obviously necessary and understandable - but do certifications that were awarded before the addition of a new BB still stand? Like being grandfathered in. Or does the certified individual need to complete the new BB's to stay current?

There has been some grandfathering.  Yes.

Brian. Heineman wrote:So, ther are many off these BBs that I cant do for different reasons like the fact that I live off grid or climate etc. Can we submit a similar project that displays the same types of skills but are suited for my environment and lifestyle and still recieve credit?

The idea as I understand it is this -

PEP stands for Permaculture Experience according to Paul.  That intrinsically means it is suited for Paul's context, ie philosophy and geography.  However, it is open-source and modular, in that you can create a PEBH certification, that may be largely based on the PEP curricula, but is tailored for your context.  Do it!  Be the first to appropriate the PEP paradigm to your own needs - I want to see how it works out for you.