Better Wood Heat: DIY Rocket Mass Heater Videos kickstarter

Here's a virtual permies wild huckleberry thank you pie for you all!



Paul will enjoy it for you shortly. It has almost cooled off.

(Maybe I'll get a better pic before it's gone. Or maybe not. )

Woo hoo! You're like the pied piper of permiedom!!!
Going to try my hand at a rocket mass heater in the next year- just in time! Way to go everybody!

Yes!!! I'm so stoked!!! not that you have to stoke a rmh, that's probably not the right word, I'll let the resident pyromaniac handle the fire stuff and stay out in the garden. YES!!! this makes me so happy! I'm so glad there is such solid support for all the aspects of this project, and that it can be done with freedom and focus!!!

This page on Kicktraq shows the daily totals for the Kickstarter.

I'm curious as to what happened on 3/10 or 3/11/15 that fired up participation! Daily totals went from around $1K, or less, to more like $6K.

Today, the last day, brought in $14,276!!

Strong work, everybody! I can't really say I did anything this time (other than pledge enough to get my name listed), but I am really impressed with y'all.

It would be interesting to know roughly what percent of permies/dailish people were in the beginning/middle/end of the kickstarter funding. How much of the final bump is caused by late breaking permies vs kickstarter natives.

AAAAAaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrgggggghhhhhh!!!

Is there a "woe is me" thread for those of us who started clicking through kickstarter a couple weeks ago and, after an arbitrary and unwelcomed computer reboot and impending descension of out of state relatives, pushed the whole thing off the computer and out of mind till sitting down for a little permy pick-me-up after driving loved ones back to the airport only to find that my one chance at affording this coveted video tome of knowledge is out of reach by a mere 8 hours? (Yeah, that started as a question.)

Oh, well. Maybe a rich relative will hook me up for Christmas.

I'm trying to process heaps of kickstarter PMs about stuff. Lots of people saying "I missed it, how do I get it now?" and I am directing them to stoves2.com and the dailyish email.

One from this morning started with this:

My bank says this is a recurring charge. I nowhere saw that this would be the case, and did not agree to more than the initial pledge payment.

Please correct this. I do not want a recurring charge. Remove me from that list.
It seems dishonest.

I replied:

I have no control over kickstarter, amazon or any of the money fondling stuff. You gotta take it up with them.

He replied (at least I think it is a "he" the genderless signature of the person doesn't match the name on the account):

It's taken care of, I cancelled the card. My onetime payment as you "advertised" and requested, still stands. I am looking forward to your progress, and to my dvds.I am disappointed in kickstart and not making it clear they were going to make it recurring. I feel it is dishonest and it will deter me from helping others with their projects.

I will contact them.

Good. So now I move on to all the other messages ....

And then I get this from him/her:

Why is my account marked as recurring payment when I only signed on for a single payment?
Why, when I try to take it up with kickstart, as you suggested, saying you have no responsibility in the recurring payment action-is there no easy or obvious way to contact them about such payment?
It reeks of dishonesty on someones part and makes me wonder how many other people are having this problem.
How can you establish trust in future customers if YOU personally don't care to see what is happening that is connected to you and your account?

My first thought is that I want to talk at great lenght about my favorite topic: me. Then I wish to explore the concepts of trust and decency being relative and subjective. Then my relationships with kickstarter and amazon. Then other web sites. Then i want to rant about credit card junk in general. Then I want to rant about how the private message stuff hosted at kickstarter is limiting and really some sort of screenshot would be of greater help. Then go into a bunch of stuff about how little information is available to me: which is extremely little. I have name, email address, amount paid and reward selected. That's it. And when I want help from kickstarter, I usually have to first travel a maze of FAQ-like crap. Plus, I am quite sure that kickstarter will never share details with me about anybody's credit card junk.

And despite my desire to get into some seven hour discussion of me and my philosophies, it does seem like this guy has a couple of points. Although I wonder how much of the problem is kickstarter and how much of it is this guy being new to kicktarter. But it will probably take a full four hours to resolve (oh, sure, it seems like it should only take 20 minutes, but my gut says that this is gonna be a full four hours).

And then there is the big curiousity: recurring payment? I've supported a lot of kickstarters and I have never noticed any recurring payment stuff. I kinda wonder if this isn't a kickstarter problem, but this person's bank being wiggy. (maybe this person expects me to contact their bank and figure this out?)

In an effort to figure this out, I want to ask you all: have you noticed anything about a recurring payment in supporting this kickstarter?

I've only supported a few kickstarters before, but i've never had any recurring charges. I didn't get any notice from my credit union about it this time either.

Using marking something as a "recurring payment" is the way Kickstarter authorizes the payment, but actually charges you days, sometimes weeks later.

It has been mentioned on the Internet before with items that are authorized long before they are actually charged.

Recurring payment? I've not had that notation or problem in the past kickstarts I've supported.

I just called my credit card company, and yes the thing came through from kickstart at the agreed upon amount, and no notation about it being a recurring charge.

To me this confirms it's not kickstart that is doing it, not Paul's deceptive intent (despite his preoccupation with evil empire and world domination). What may be contributing to the situation is that I have a credit card, not a debit card or a cash card. I've had the card a looooong time and have a great credit rating. But it might also be that there are plenty of financial institutions that are not that ethical, confusion in their favor would reward them right?

If I got any kind of funny business eg "recurring charge" I'd find a new financial institution, pronto. I recommend local credit unions, or shared interest credit unions. At PV1, there was someone trying to start a credit union for permaculturists. I lost the contact info so I don't know what happened. But if there is one, my guess is that there would be more integrity, and more of a sense that the customer base is limited, and the desire to provide good services would be prioritized more highly.

The thing about a credit union is that the decisions are made locally. You can talk to someone who participated in the decision, and who can fix the problem.

I'm sorry for the heart aches and headaches playing out over this. It should have been a straight deal. It's not Paul's project. And it's not kickstart messing with you.

Best wishes for a speedy resolution!
Thekla

Authorization holds on debit cards are shorter than credit cards, but are still up to the individual bank. The difference is something like 7 days for debit and 30 days for credit(again varying by bank). The interchange rate charged by the payment processing company gets larger the longer the vendor waits between authorization->actual charge. I think someone is panicking because their bank/software UI prominently displays "RECURRING" on the charge. I've never seen that on my credit card/debit card displays, so I assume it too is bank specific. Recurring is a term of art in the payments world and may not map directly to colloquial understanding.

Likely the choice of which kind of payment/authorization to use is handled by Kickstarter's payment processor, and is determined by when you made your pledge, what payment method, and what your bank's payment fees are(since they are paid by the vendor).

Boy, Bill, I wish I understood all of that. Especially the "art" of recurring. I'll have to read it several times, maybe also talk to bank, credit card, and credit union. It seems like you are saying there are variables in how authorizations for payment are made, and maybe, the financial institution's sense that they will get their money is important. Soooo, with a debit card, if the money is there, they authorize. And with a credit line hundreds of times greater than a charge, they go ahead without much worry, but if the account was almost maxed out, and the charge was a greater proportion they might pause, and with a person who only ever paid the minimum payment they might at some point begin to slow down the authorization process.

Am I getting it?

Thekla

"Term of art" is where a normal term(as opposed to jargon) has a specific meaning in a specific industry. For instance, "proof" in mathematics is not the same as a common understanding of proof. The term recurring has a broad meaning in conversation, but might have specific conditions according to the banks.

In payments, an Authorization Hold is like a pre-sequestration of funds. When you put your credit card in the gas pump, the station might request a $200 hold. Once your gas is pumped, the Charge is made for $60, and the $200 hold goes away. The hold is there so the station can be assured that the charge will go through, so long as it is under the hold limit. I have had the experience in college where the gas pump had a $100 pre-authorization hold, so my card was rejected. But the attendant was able to charge $35 since the attendant just ran the charge without the authorization hold. The hold ensures that the vendor gets paid, and that you don't overspend your credit allocation. Restaurants authorize your card for the cost of your meal, plus a buffer for potential tip. Then they go in an make the actual charge later once they know the tip. Authorize, then Charge is more expensive than just Charge, which is why some (cheap)restaurants make you fill in your tip first, then take your card.(Or make you pay one the way out instead of at the table)

Authorizations have a time limit, so the money/credit is not held indefinitely. You don't want to get into a situation where the Campaign owner gets funded, but then a whole bunch of credit cards get rejected when it closes. But you also don't want to Authorize them on day 1, then need to authorize them again on day 45, that gets expensive for Kickstarter. My assumption(I have no specific knowledge of Kickstarter) is that Kickstarter has worked out with their payments processor what the cheapest way to get the best authorization guarantee. It might involve setting it up as a recurring payment right away, that is simply ended once it is charged or if the campaign ends.

I worked for a company that did multi-national payroll. I also did Peer-To-Peer lending with Prosper, so I have some familiarity with the issues Kickstarter is dealing with. As a side-note, the fasted way to crush the soul of a Starry-Eyed Idealist who wants to overthrow the tyranny of the banks, is to actually engage in peer-to-peer lending(Where individual people make decisions on individual loans). The conversion from "Screw the Banks" to "Bring Back Debtors Prisons" conversion takes about 6-9 months.

paul wheaton wrote:
In an effort to figure this out, I want to ask you all: have you noticed anything about a recurring payment in supporting this kickstarter?

good morning Paul, i've been a lurker here for a year now and haven't posted before because i'm a disabled Vet living on short shrift with this permaculture stuff a dream for a future i hope to reach.

...which means i've been reading and studying and learning rather than speaking on things i've not done.

in any event i'm speaking now to answer your question to say that this was the first Kickstarter program i've ever backed and while i haven't called my bank, i see no mention of any recurring payments on the Kickstarter page, ...i used a Visa debit card btw and my account shows the money gone from my account already which is ok by me as it makes it easier for me to insure i don't over draw my account down the road.

anyway, i kicked in $90.00 for a set of the 8 physical DVDS and i'm really looking forward to watching them. ...i assume we'll be getting emails with details and maybe download links for some of the stuff already inhouse? ...and no hurry man, i know you don't have a room full of clerky types doing data entry so i realize it'll take you some time to process all this stuff.

thanks for sharing this kind of knowledge, Rick aka 'Abner Doon'

I jumped in at the $60 level in Kickstarter and alas, have not heard a word about it since. I was not registered here at the time. How do I collect the streaming videos (set) which I thought was the "candy" at that level? I'm sure it's obvious - I'm new to this entire computer thing. I've never backed anything at Kickstarter and was not familiar with this forum. I hope this is going someplace relevant. If not, please let me know exactly where to ask about this. Thanks!

Hey Joan-
Welcome to the forum. On March 18th, Paul wrote on the kickstarter website (as an update to the project)

What a roller coaster! And what a massive finish! Wow. We made $14,276 on the last day. I think we made something like $4000 just in the last hour.

Kickstarter will send me funds in two weeks. Complete with reports on which funds went wonky - so we will have the list of people where the funds went through smoothly.

We will then start putting together the great candy hand out. Here is the most important part: a lot of the candy we will be handing out is only for a very limited window of time. 72 hours. That was the deal that we arranged. So you need to make sure that your kickstarter email is correct and be checking that email. If you don't get your candy during the window, then you don't get your candy. A bit like going trick-or-treating on November 9th - it just isn't gonna fly.

Also, for those people that put in five bucks or more, you get access to the "secret inner circle" forum at permies.com. But for that to work, you HAVE TO make sure that your kickstarter email address matches the email address for your account at permies.com.

Right now anybody and everybody can get Erica's "annex" rocket mass heater plans for free. Normally she sells them for $15. http://richsoil.com/annex-plans.php --- I'm collaborating with her on this; she is hoping that we collect skillions of email addresses because she is going to start her own kickstarter very soon. So feel free to pass this tidbit on to anybody you think might possibly be interested in this sort of thing.

If you are just itching to talk about rocket mass heater stuff, you can hit the very active rocket stoves forum at permies.com.

Thanks so much for helping this project get over $100,000! I look forward to handing out mountains of candy in two weeks!

So, based on this we should be start expecting to see things in around 1 week from now (or around April 1). Hopefully there won't any fooling with this.

Hope that helps,
--matt

Has anyone else had a hard time downloading erica's nifty PDF? Can't tell if it's my crappy Internet connection.....

Eva Taylor wrote:Has anyone else had a hard time downloading erica's nifty PDF? Can't tell if it's my crappy Internet connection.....

Check out this thread.

Hey Paul - congratulations on a very successful Kickstarter!! We're all eager to see the results come October. In the meantime, how will we find out when/where the free candy (like the 2012 DVD downloads) will be available? I have to travel to the local donut shop for internet access, and I'm worried about the short window of opportunity for downloads -- especially after the hassles with the latest free candy download (Erica Wisner's Rocket Mass Heater Manual). It took two days and more than two dozen attempts to download a 16.5 MB PDF file. They don't have good pies, so I'm eating way too many donuts, and I'm afraid I won't be able to get back in my car!

Ed Zaborski wrote:Hey Paul - congratulations on a very successful Kickstarter!! We're all eager to see the results come October. In the meantime, how will we find out when/where the free candy (like the 2012 DVD downloads) will be available? I have to travel to the local donut shop for internet access, and I'm worried about the short window of opportunity for downloads -- especially after the hassles with the latest free candy download (Erica Wisner's Rocket Mass Heater Manual). It took two days and more than two dozen attempts to download a 16.5 MB PDF file. They don't have good pies, so I'm eating way too many donuts, and I'm afraid I won't be able to get back in my car!

As of this moment, I would estimate sometime around April 3 for candy. But this can change.

paul wheaton wrote:I'm trying to process heaps of kickstarter PMs about stuff. Lots of people saying "I missed it, how do I get it now?" and I am directing them to stoves2.com and the dailyish email.
<snipped lots of stuff about someone dropping their ick on Paul.>

In an effort to figure this out, I want to ask you all: have you noticed anything about a recurring payment in supporting this kickstarter?

I've backed 49 successful projects and had six that did not make it, with one in the works, but it should fund as well - all that back patting aside - never have I seen anything with recurring payments on my card, even with the new direct to credit card experience instead of the "off to Amazon" one that I started with.

I think that Bill Crim's fancy explanation (that means I think you talk purty! ) has much to do with the issue, and maybe that person has some problems with technology. Either way, not your problem for sure and certain.

Thanks to all of our kickstarter supporters!

the long uns!

Tobias. Barefoot Christian. Supervising Proctor, Assistant Janitor/Safety Manager, Chief Auto-Epigenetic Guinea Pig - 
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Hi, I m wondering if the streaming version of The Art and Science of Natural Plaster will be available in October also.

thanks a lot,

greg

Hi everyone,

in case you didn't see the email Paul sent out via kickstarter a few weeks ago, I'm gonna post it here:


"Chad and Daniel are currently editing the videos. We're kinda talking about getting some of the final footage at this year's innovators event. Daniel will be here to take new video of the innovators event. We are already going back and forth on how many cameras and microphones we will need.

Projects for this year include:
rocket mass heaters in tiny houses
a rocket hot tub
super fast j-tube builds
a "clear" rocket mass heater where you can see EVERYTHING
rocket mass heater with water as the mass
convert a conventional gas or electric oven to run on rocket power
evolve the "batch" and "sidekick" designs
more on shippable cores

All the particulars: http://richsoil.com/rmh-innovators.jsp

So, in an effort to crank out a higher quality product, I think it might be december when things start to ship.

Thanks everybody! I hope to see you at this year's pyronauts innovators event!"

Cassie,
Thanks for the update. I'm all in favor of a quality product.
Thekla

Can anyone tell me where I have to go in internet land to change my address for my rmh dvds that are supposed to be shipping sometime in december?

Karl Mehler wrote:Can anyone tell me where I have to go in internet land to change my address for my rmh dvds that are supposed to be shipping sometime in december?

We haven't even asked for addresses yet. We are putting that off as long as we can in case people need to change their address.

I merged your stuff with the following thread. I hope that is okay by you.

Hi All,

Earlier this year I pledged some money for your kickstarter campaign. Here recently, I clicked on an email by accident and downloaded a virus to my computer (stupid) and it had to be scraped clean so I have lost everything. I did download all the candy available (thank you ) but of course that is gone now. My pledge also gave me access to the permies inner circle and I haven't got any info for that either. I am not exactly sure what my pledge was for as I cannot remember. Is there anything that can be done to recover the information relating to this? I have never pledged before and I am a little "green" about all of this.
I did read through some of the posts in the kickstarter thread but was unable to find an answer to my issue.
Thanks for taking the time to read this.

Lorna Walker

Lorna Walker wrote:Hi All,

Earlier this year I pledged some money for your kickstarter campaign. Here recently, I clicked on an email by accident and downloaded a virus to my computer (stupid) and it had to be scraped clean so I have lost everything. I did download all the candy available (thank you ) but of course that is gone now. My pledge also gave me access to the permies inner circle and I haven't got any info for that either. I am not exactly sure what my pledge was for as I cannot remember. Is there anything that can be done to recover the information relating to this? I have never pledged before and I am a little "green" about all of this.
I did read through some of the posts in the kickstarter thread but was unable to find an answer to my issue.
Thanks for taking the time to read this.

Lorna Walker

Hi Lorna,

Please email me at cassie AT richsoils DOT com and hopefully we can get some things figured out.

Burra Maluca wrote:Lorna Walker,
I have merged your topic into this topic. I hope that helps.

Thank you Burra,
It is obvious I don't have a clue what I am doing lol

Cassie Langstraat wrote:

Lorna Walker wrote:Hi All,

Earlier this year I pledged some money for your kickstarter campaign. Here recently, I clicked on an email by accident and downloaded a virus to my computer (stupid) and it had to be scraped clean so I have lost everything. I did download all the candy available (thank you ) but of course that is gone now. My pledge also gave me access to the permies inner circle and I haven't got any info for that either. I am not exactly sure what my pledge was for as I cannot remember. Is there anything that can be done to recover the information relating to this? I have never pledged before and I am a little "green" about all of this.
I did read through some of the posts in the kickstarter thread but was unable to find an answer to my issue.
Thanks for taking the time to read this.

Lorna Walker

Hi Lorna,

Please email me at cassie AT richsoils DOT com and hopefully we can get some things figured out.

Thank you Cassie.
Will do.

Lorna Walker

Lorna Walker wrote:

Cassie Langstraat wrote:

Lorna Walker wrote:Hi All,

Earlier this year I pledged some money for your kickstarter campaign. Here recently, I clicked on an email by accident and downloaded a virus to my computer (stupid) and it had to be scraped clean so I have lost everything. I did download all the candy available (thank you ) but of course that is gone now. My pledge also gave me access to the permies inner circle and I haven't got any info for that either. I am not exactly sure what my pledge was for as I cannot remember. Is there anything that can be done to recover the information relating to this? I have never pledged before and I am a little "green" about all of this.
I did read through some of the posts in the kickstarter thread but was unable to find an answer to my issue.
Thanks for taking the time to read this.

Lorna Walker

Hi Lorna,

Please email me at cassie AT richsoils DOT com and hopefully we can get some things figured out.

Thank you Cassie.
Will do.

Lorna Walker

Hi Cassie,

I wrote an email to you earlier in the day and it got returned 6 hours later. I checked the email address 3 times to make sure I did it right but it says it's invailid. I obviously used an @ and . in place of the AT and the Dot.
Can you help?

Lorna

My mistake.

there is no s

It's cassie AT richsoil DOT com

Sorry!