I could use advise about my daughter's diet

Hi there!
I am not sure this is the most suitable forum...

I am concerned about my 11 year old daughter's diet.
I already know that her diet should be much better. I guess I just want to confirm it and have a better idea of how bad it is.
I do not recall her weight just now, but it is normal for her height and age.
I am mostly concerned about developing things like Diabetes.

Breakfast
Each of the following 3 numbers represent the possible breakfast for any given day.
1. 1 brown bread toast or half a croissant with strawberry jam.
Half a cup of 2% milk.
2. Half a bowl of Multigrain Cheerios with 2% milk.
3. 2 Pancakes with maple syrup, and half a cup of 2% milk. I make the 5 or 6 pancakes with 5 eggs.

Lunch & Diner
1. Chicken nuggets with french fries.
2. Fish sticks with french fries.
3. Beef or Seafood Lasagna.
4. MacDonald's Quarter Pounder with cheese and ketchup only, and french fries.
5. A&W's Beyond burger with cheese and ketchup only, and french fries. She avoids the fries with skin.
6. Subway's meatball sandwich with only lettuce and cucumbers.

Desserts
1. 3 Oreo cookies.
2. 2 MacDonald's chocolate chip cookies.
3. 1 Subway chocolate chip cookie.
4. 1.5 scoop of ice-cream
5. 1 Ice-cream sandwich made from Oat milk.

Snacks before bed
1. Half a cup of 2% milk. Half a banana. A cheese stick. A bowl of Ruffles potato chips. A bowl of popcorn with Himalayan salt, sometimes with butter.

Additionally she eats a multivitamin gummy everyday.

As for physical activities, during the Winter she spends most of her time playing with her computer. During the Summer is much better of course. She typically joins a Summer Camp Monday through Friday, and I take her to the park to play Ping Pong, or just walk over the weekends.

So based on these information, how likely is she to develop diseases like Diabetes?

Any tips/suggestions/advise will be greatly appreciated.

If she were my daughter I would want her to be eating a lot of fruits and vegetables.

I would not want my daughter eating that amount of processed food.

Here are a couple of links that will help plan a meal plan for her:

https://www.urmc.rochester.edu/childrens-hospital/nutrition/feeding-your-child-10to12.aspx

https://www.livestrong.com/article/428693-a-healthy-diet-for-11-year-olds/

After looking these over please ask questions that will help us advise you.

Hello there,
food and young people is a wild combination. In my experience parenting and as a teacher, I've found you get better results by offering unexpected freebies than by pushing for them to change what they're already doing.

I'd say first of all, good on her for having some sort of physical activity for part of the year. Winter can be really limiting and you can't expect an 11-year-old to be out running laps on the track in the snow. Maybe explore some sort of activity you can do together in the winter that you both enjoy? Because parent/kid time is always good.

As for the diet, there aren't too many veggies/fruit. I know when my kid was little she loved to explore the fruit and veggie section, and inevitably asked me to buy the most exotic (cough, expensive) fruit and veg. Maybe go to a farmer's market or different sort of market space and ask her to pick out something she's never had before, she could look for recipes and you both could cook together? You can't expect her to love all veggies, but if you give her some agency she may really enjoy it, and you both can have fun.
You could also make an effort to provide new things for her to try, don't push her to try, but just have them around. She may surprise you.
Not sure where you are, but when the weather is nice she could even go picking things and that often makes kids really enjoy eating fruit and veg.
Good luck!

you can't expect an 11-year-old to be out running in the snow

Why? There is so much fun to be had!  Still, it's besides the point, the question is about diet.

If she were my daughter I would want her to be eating a lot of fruits and vegetables.  I would not want my daughter eating that amount of processed food.

.

I totally agree with the above and Anne gave a couple of good links to children's diet and requirements.  One question comes to mind though, why so much processed food?  Is it that you can't cook, won't cook or not have time or facilities?

Anne Miller wrote:If she were my daughter I would want her to be eating a lot of fruits and vegetables.
I would not want my daughter eating that amount of processed food.

I am so glad you said this

Anne Miller wrote:
Here are a couple of links that will help plan a meal plan for her:

https://www.urmc.rochester.edu/childrens-hospital/nutrition/feeding-your-child-10to12.aspx

https://www.livestrong.com/article/428693-a-healthy-diet-for-11-year-olds/

Thanks a bunch for these links

Anne Miller wrote:
After looking these over please ask questions that will help us advise you.

You bet I will!

Tereza Okava wrote:Hello there,
food and young people is a wild combination. In my experience parenting and as a teacher, I've found you get better results by offering unexpected freebies than by pushing for them to change what they're already doing.

I could not agree more. However, I have tried that already, we even went to a few cooking workshops at her school, I try to be an example myself. But about 5 years have gone by already and here we are, the same place but with more pressure on me. I just hope there'll be time to change the path in time before she develops something serious.

Tereza Okava wrote:
I'd say first of all, good on her for having some sort of physical activity for part of the year. Winter can be really limiting and you can't expect an 11-year-old to be out running laps on the track in the snow. Maybe explore some sort of activity you can do together in the winter that you both enjoy? Because parent/kid time is always good.

Well, now that you mention it... there's an indoors swimming pool here in the building! And a small gym room. I'll have to organize ourselves to go.

Tereza Okava wrote:
You could also make an effort to provide new things for her to try, don't push her to try, but just have them around. She may surprise you.
Good luck!

Right, I've got to keep trying..

Thank you Tereza

Olga Booker wrote:One question comes to mind though, why so much processed food?  Is it that you can't cook, won't cook or not have time or facilities?

Unfortunately my wife kind of grew up the same way. But at least my wife has a more varied diet, and definitely eats more fruits and veggies. Although my wife admits that our daughter should eat better, she still does not think that her present diet is a problem. I am the only one that cooks from scratch, and that eats as many veggies. But my daughter won't look at my diet as an example but as an odd diet.

I'm going to stick my foot waaayyy... into the swamp here.

When I was growing up and maybe even when my kids were, but I'd learned to ignore it by then, "everyone" pushed low fat milk. Low fat milk benefits big business that makes stuff out of milk fat. But children then get their fat from processed foods - of which there are tons on the OP's list that simply weren't to be found in my house - many of which are packaged with sugar.

So the first and easiest thing to change would be to buy whole milk.
The second easiest thing to change would be to reduce the "bedtime snack" until it was just the milk, or non-existent. I survived without food after dinner, and so did my kids. That way they're hungry enough to eat a healthy breakfast.

The second thing I'd change is breakfast.
1. Whole grain toast will hold her longer than a croissant, but will she have some sort of nut butter under the jam?
2. Could be worse, but would she eat porridge if it was presented to her? Dried apples or apricots added make for a nice flavor.
3. White flour? I make an oatmeal pancake that many people really like, but I'd at least make the pancakes out of 50% whole wheat flour. Using a box mix? Make up your own mix in advance and store it in the fridge - measure out the ~2 cups, add the eggs and cook. Add some wheat germ to the mix to get more natural vitamins in her diet.
4. Now both feet are in the swamp - "breakfast" foods have changed over time. No law says you can't cook up some broccoli and feed it to your kid for breakfast with some melted cheese on top. Grated carrot with chunks of apple with Mayonnaise stirred in? Homemade bean salad?
Can you bake your own "breakfast muffins" in an evening, choosing recipes that include fruits and veg - zucchini muffins, pumpkin muffins, applesauce muffins etc. Also add seeds (pumpkin or sunflower are good) and dried fruit. Even if the recipe doesn't call for it, use whole wheat flour for at least 50% of the flour (maybe 25% to start - it may be an acquired taste.)

This sounds a lot like "busy, overworked family syndrome". At 11 years of age, she's certainly old enough to be "sous chef" - learning to chop veggies, stir the pot, etc. The trouble is that if you are getting home tired and grumpy, that's not the time to teach anything. When I lived alone, I used to cook for 4 and freeze three. If possible, I'd move the frozen meal from the freezer to the fridge to thaw during the day. I'd often do the prep or even the cooking the night before *after* dinner, so I wasn't trying to cook and be hungry at the same time.

As mentioned above, let your daughter make some of the choices - get her to help find a recipe on the web that interests her, and help her make up a list of what you have and what you need to buy. Have a healthy snack that's easy to grab when you get home. Believe it or not, when my kids were little they loved frozen peas - yes, still frozen!!! It started when they were teething, but they didn't out grow it. So a small bowl of frozen peas, or carrot sticks with a yogurt or humus dip to munch on while you cook/reheat dinner might help you get off the fast food diet.

I don't mean this to sound harsh, but there is almost no food on the list.  When I was raising my son, he ate meat, fruits, and vegetables almost exclusively, with only the very occasional desert item.  Treats for him were things like macaroni and cheese, which he absolutely loved, so we had that once every couple weeks.  He had some other things like that that were his favorites, so we had them once in awhile and he always got to pick what he wanted for his dinner on birthdays and the like.  He ate that, because that's what his mother and I ate.  He grew up healthy and strong, and I don't think he ever felt "deprived".  We raised him to eat that way, so that was what he knew.  

It will be harder for you I think, simply because eating bad food is already a habit, so I would implement changes slowly.  Fruit can be substituted for other deserts.  Vegetables can be added to dinners, or even breakfast.  It will probably be easiest with the more "kid friendly" vegetables like corn.

I'm not sure about everyone else, but I grew up in Wisconsin and as kids, my brothers and I  and the neighbor kids were outside playing anytime we weren't in school.  Kids love playing in the snow.  We sledded, built snow men, built igloos, made giant snow mountains and played king of the hill, and a million other things.  On weekends, we watched cartoons until 9 or so, played outside until we got hungry for lunch, and then straight back outside.  The rule was, we had to come in when it got dark.  When it did get dark, we could usually beg enough to get another hour outside.  I would very strongly limit computer  time.

As I said, I hope none of this sounds harsh.  I applaud you for thinking about this, trying to come up with ideas, and taking time to post the question here.  Your daughter is lucky to have an involved parent that cares about her diet and exercise.  Best of luck to you both.

Jay's advice on the full-fat milk is good.  Fat helps to keep the body from being hungry.

Something simple that might help you to get started which by all means is not "the way":  my mom always had two vegetables at every meal.  One green and one yellow.

Green veggies are easy, yellow can include orange which makes more of a variety.

Try starting with two the work up to more.  Another saying that might help is "5 alive".  I always thought that it meant to have 5 vegetables a day so I would have a salad with five different vegetables.  The saying actually means 5 serving of vegetables.  Though every step is in the right direction.

We eat a lot of vegetables. I usually make vegetables that are very yummy not just plain green beans or broccoli. Sherried green beans with wild mushrooms, green beans with almonds or creamy green beans (canned beans with boursin cheese). Broccoli and cauliflower with cheese sauce. Brussels sprouts with bacon. You get the idea. My kids see these as treats not something to run away from. Granted they are all adults now, but this is how I always fed them.

Children and everyone else are more likely to eat fruit if it's cut up and laid out on a table or the counter. They grab some every time they walk by. You might end up with some waste but to my mind that's the price you pay.

Other than that, I agree with what others have said. Home cooking is important but it's difficult if your partner isn't on the same page. Good luck to you.

The suggestions about an 11-year-old's diet here are very helpful and they directly answer the OP's question. To take this thread on a little diversion, please consider another pathway to a healthy diet.
Since this site is about permaculture, finding new ways to eat what we grow and grow what we eat is the cooking connection that I enjoy so much here. With that in mind, have you (as a mother or father, public and/or private school parent, homeschool educator) ever heard about programs like Edible Schoolyard? Curriculums are available for those who would like to make age-appropriate programs for students to enjoy the fascinating world of hands-on food science projects. Edible Schoolyard, and others modeled after it, help many local schools throughout the US and beyond to get kids involved in growing and loving real food.  
Hungry kids want to eat and that fact presents a terrific opportunity to get students involved in planting, studying, harvesting, preparing and eating their own amazing creations. Programs like this have transformed lives: kids, parents and educators. I will never forget a teaching experience where the majority of children had never heard of corn-on-the-cob. They thought we would be putting cans of corn into the wood fired oven that they built. It is incredibly sad that most kids do not have much knowledge or involvement in the foods they eat. Happily, programs like Edible Schoolyard (and amazing parents who write the homeschooling threads on Permies) are changing that.

Just chiming in with the others, but from a slightly different angle to help motivate both parent and child.

I grew up with a diet not too much different than that of your daughter.  Both parents were working and both had grown up on farms.....and both valued good quality home-cooked meals and pushed gardening on us as well.  The problem mostly was that, as somewhat 'latchkey' kids in the US, we just started following the cultural trends with food that we ate and with the somewhat typical 'rebelliousness' against what our parents wanted us to eat, ended up eating too much junk, plain and simple.  In his later years, my father started eating too much rich/refined food, even though he still cherished his garden and produce.  Probably due a bit to genetics interacting with his food choices, his last years included struggles with type II diabetes.....a condition that I'm now on the borderline with based on blood sugar analysis when I visit the doc.  All of this interacts with my excess weight and I totally get the desire to reach for the sugary/cakey carbo-treat versus the fresh carrot.  It's probably affecting my declining eyesight and impacting many other organ functions.  Interestingly, my wife grew up where somehow all of those treats were just verboten in her house.  Homemade cookies might be around.....infrequently.  A visit to a restaurant was a once or twice a year occasion.  Her genetics help her be a bit on the thinner side, but she's never 'struggled' to eat healthy....high sugar foods literally make her sick!  (Fortunately and unlike me, she has stable to lower blood pressure cuz she eats salt like no one else I know....)  Perhaps most relevant is the fact that she's an active 70s......very few ailments and still with the energy to feed and clean stalls of a barn full of animals for 3-4 hours each night.  I fear unless I really double down on eating better, I can only hope to have a fraction of her mobility and energy when I reach that decade.

At age 11, your daughter unfortunately has possibly had many years to develop a 'taste' for that poorer food.....I feel that in many cases it can justifiably be labeled an addiction when it becomes really hard to break those habits.  No judgement here as I suffer from the same taste cravings and am having to combat them now in older age.  That said, I would work diligently at inundating your home with healthy foods leaving her with less and less opportunity....when at home....to eat unhealthy food.  Even if she rebels *now*, by setting the better example at the table and hoping that her own physiology begins to respond by shifting her craving more towards healthier food, once out of the nest you may observe her eating more healthy by choice.  This is an observation that I suspect I and many other adults have made with regard to children as they grow into adults and begin to define their own lives and homes.  Good luck!

Another thing that worked for my kids was raw veggies. I still most days cut up raw veggies, carrots, cucumbers, bell peppers, jicama, sugar snap peas etc. depending on season and put them out for a mid afternoon snack. I do include dip whether it be dill dip or ranch or whatever, sometimes I include some potato chips. When they were young this was their after school snack, now it's just a down time snack. I don't think that dip negates the positive value of vegetables.

Stacy Witscher wrote:

I don't think that dip negates the positive value of vegetables.

I agree! I often made my own dip with either yogurt or sour cream and home-dried spices/herbs. Parsley is easy to grow, even just in a pot, and just as easy to dry in an oven, and yet it's got lots of micro-nutrients in it.

If we were doing the birthday party thing, I'd put out the veggies and dip while I was "organizing" whatever other food would be served, and most kids were hungry enough to eat a piece or 5 even though they knew yummy stuff was coming.

In my honest opinion, no creature will voluntarily starve to death.  I understand you are concerned about diabetes, and rightly so, but to me, this representative diet you provided is seriously lacking in basic nutrition, highly processed and full of "empty calories".  There appears to be little to no fruits and veggies; and very little "high quality" dairy or protein. At 11 she can only eat what is offered.

FunFact: a lot of kids with allergies get red ears when exposed to something they are sensitive to.  At her age she should be perfectly capable of vocalizing why she dislikes something, listen carefully, many kids subconsciously know that certain foods do not "agree" with them - there could be underlying food sensitivities or allergies that no one realizes, and her pickiness is actually self preservation from tummy aches, itchiness, or other issues!

It is also completely possible she will not be able to verbalize her dislikes if she has negative associations with some foods because she connects them (subconsciously) to certain events (hospitals, funerals, bad birthday party...) that were less than enjoyable.  Kind of like those who perhaps had too much tequila at some point and now can not even catch a whiff without being taken RIGHT back to yuckville....

Please, do not EVER make food a battle ground.  By this I mean the old school "eat what is on your plate", or "you must clean your plate" or "we do not waste food in this house" or the worst, serving a refused plate of food over and over, at each subsequent meal, until it is eaten.  She is also at the age where eating disorders tend to pop up, this is NOT a road you want to take...

Understanding her pickiness is key. Is it smell that puts her off, texture she does not like or she dislikes hot/spicy?  Does she prefer sweet or salty?  Does she prefer bland because strong foods are overwhelming?  A little red pepper jelly or honey added to most things will sweeten it, be it a sauce or dip; I would rather sweeten something to get nutrition in, and slowly lessen the sweetness over time. A little nutritional yeast can add saltiness.

"NO THANK YOU BITE" METHOD:  I am a huge believer in this approach. Essentially, they are required to take ONE bite of EVERYTHING, served/on the plate, this includes the adults, as in you and Mum, also.  Kids learn by example, if you are not willing to "taste" why should they???

If they don't like it, they don't have to eat any more, at that meal.  But do not give up, it often takes 20-30 "tastes" of a food before ones taste buds accept it.  This allows for food experimentation, without it becoming confrontational, "...one bite, that's it, come on, you don't like it, you don't have to have any more, tonight."  Ideally, this method is employed from birth, it may be much more challenging at age 11.  Bribery (not a fan of this, but, you do what you have to do sometimes) may need to be utilized to get this new mentality entrenched.  You have a very limited time frame to get her eating habits to change, I say, what ever works, you do, at this point.

Consider restaurants that offer buffets, she may be inspired to try different stuff if she sees her parents or others doing the same.

I am, personally, NOT a fan of providing alternative meals for picky eaters, as my mother said "I am not short order cook or your personal chef!!".  But if she refuses to eat ANYTHING beyond the "no thank you bite" of everything offered, you may want to consider a single option that is healthier and she WILL eat for those occasions when everything is refused.  This should not be a "reward" (no favorites, fast food or junk) for not eating the family meal, more of a last resort, basic, staple meal (scrambled eggs, peanut butter sandwich, cereal type idea) that is the SOLE alternative every, single time and hopefully one that will get boring fast.

STEALTH METHOD: The key to this method is to find ways to "sneak" nutrition into foods she will voluntarily eat.  If she will eat pasta, you can puree a whole lot of veggies and hide them in tomato sauce...replace the noodles with spaghetti squash or spiraled vegetables. Gradually add more whole grain flour into her pancakes (literally, a spoonful a day, gradually replacing all the white with whole grain over months), sneak in some protein powder.  Make sure her morning toast is truly WHOLE grain (I would stop buying croissants, period, tasty, but pretty much zero nutrition).  If she will eat mashed potatoes, you could puree cauliflower and slowly add 1/10th, 1/5th, 1/3rd at a time.  Will she drink "milkshakes"?  Could you sneak some healthy stuff in there, gradually, so that over time they become nutritious smoothies?

Oddly, Honey Nut Cheerios are lower in calories than Multi Grain, and if I recall correctly, they "grain" content difference was fairly insignificant.  Grab a box of plain Cheerios, slowly replace her regular Cheerios with increasing portions of the plain.

FUN METHOD: Make food fun!  Perhaps some blueberry eyes and strawberry lips on her pancakes?  Sandwiches cut out with cookie cutters into fun shapes, you can also do this with melon, apple slices, pineapple or squash, carrots, potatoes etc.?  Create "pictures" created with food on her plate?  Consider cute cheese options like Laughing Cow or Baby Bell.  If snack, protein or granola bars are on the menu, carefully read the nutrition panel, most are no better than a candy bar.

Will she eat pizza?  Build your own pizza with English Muffins or Flat Bread can be a great way to get some nutrition in!  Crepes with all sorts of fillings, close to pancakes, who knows, she might go for it.  What about fruit or veggie kabobs?  Chocolate dipped strawberries - frozen banana's are a fabulous alternative to ice cream and ice pops, especially when dipped in chocolate!!

REPLACEMENT METHOD: Will she eat "dip"?  If so, it is likely Ranch or some such heavy fat, low nutrition sort.  Try gradually mixing in plain, thick, Greek yogurt, a spoon at a time; make a half mayo half yogurt dip she likes ketchup, so add a shot or two...over time, gradually reduce the mayo and increase the yogurt until the dip is primarily yogurt.  

I see you tried 'cooking classes' and that was a non starter.  Was it because she did not like what they cooked, the environment or the entire concept?  

If she has a sweet tooth, perhaps making homemade "candy" such as gummy bears or fruit leather from REAL fruit.  Perhaps baking is more her thing; banana bread muffins, masquerading as cupcakes, granola bars, rice krispie squares, cookies.  They may not be "healthy" but at least you can control what is in them and make healthier substitutions like whole wheat instead of white flour, raisins instead of chocolate chips...  

If she has a savory tooth she might enjoy making flavored popcorn (nacho flavor sprinkles instead of nacho chips), homemade french fries, fish sticks, chicken nuggets, mac and cheese, omelets, egg bites (crustless quiches)...  We know she likes croissants, those pilsbury refrigerator ones can be filled with all sorts of healthy stuffings from scrambled eggs to crumbled Beyond Meat burger patties...over time this could morph into more of a bread dough or filo pastry with filling.

AVAILABILITY METHOD: Make sure there are easy, healthy, grab and go snacks.  Cut up fruits and veggies or cheese in the fridge; fruit leathers, healthy bars in the pantry; popped corn instead of chips.  If the less healthy options are simply not available, she cannot avail herself of them!

Beyond Meat burger patties are available in the stores here (BC, Canada), perhaps supplied with a "healthier" bun and condiments?  They could also be chopped up and used as a "meat" source in all sorts of casseroles, pasta, pizza toppings...

Provide (homemade?) healthier versions of her "go to" foods such as chicken nuggets, use an AirFryer to replicate the deep fried taste she is accustomed to, without the fat.

CHOICE METHOD: Particularly useful for breakfast and school lunches.  She gets to choose one out of three things for her sandwich, snacks etc.  Often giving "control" to choose, even if the options are ALL healthy and not her preference, at least lessens the "push back".  If she does not choose, fine, you will choose for her, period.

Remember, she has eaten this way for eleven years, this will not change overnight, it will take lots of patience, and it will take a lot of time.  I am the first to admit that much of what I have suggested is not necessarily the best nutrition, but I offer it as more of a "weaning" diet, leading to a great and healthy diet.  Hopefully, with small, incremental changes, you can gradually adjust her taste buds to more nutritious food, to the point where she voluntarily CHOOSES the better option, rather than settling because it is the ONLY option.  Your goal is to create healthy, lifelong eating habits - if you have to cheat along the way, so be it.

Your concerns are completely valid, based on the example diet you supplied, there does not appear to be adequate, or quality nutrition in what she currently eats, to my mind.  I think the key here is to remember, if it is not provided, she cannot eat it, good or bad.  As the parent, you have control, you just have to be willing to use it.  

Good for you for seeking advice, and wanting to do what is best for your kiddo.

Jay Angler wrote:I'm going to stick my foot waaayyy... into the swamp here.

Thank you kindly for taking the time to step into the swamp and share such beautiful memories and valuable information! That was great!

Stacy Witscher wrote:Another thing that worked for my kids was raw veggies. I still most days cut up raw veggies, carrots, cucumbers, bell peppers, jicama, sugar snap peas etc. depending on season and put them out for a mid afternoon snack. I do include dip whether it be dill dip or ranch or whatever, sometimes I include some potato chips. When they were young this was their after school snack, now it's just a down time snack. I don't think that dip negates the positive value of vegetables.

Thank you for sharing Stacy :)

As always with Permies, there is some excellent advice here.  To add to this, in addition to asking for our help, ask for her help.  Be sure to accept her early input, even if you regard her ideas as hopeless ( hopeless is different than immediately dangerous).  Shape her in baby steps.

To add to this, chocolate chip cookies seem to be important to her .... it might be a good starting point.

There is some really great advice with all these posts.

Speaking of cooking, one of the easiest food items to make that contain lots of vegetables is soups and stews.

A recipe helps but may not be necessary.

I made my first stew/soup at Girl Scout Camp at about age 10 or 11.

1 pound of ground meat
2 or 3 potatoes
2 or 3 carrots

Peel potatoes and carrots. Dice potatoes and slice carrots.

In a large pan, brown ground meat in a tablespoon of oil.  Drain off fat.

Add potatoes and carrots.  Add stock or water to cover and cook until vegetables are done. About 20 minutes.

Any other vegetables can be added depending on likes and dislikes.  Add salt and pepper.

I make a cabbage soup about the same way except I leave out the meat.

Here are some threads all about soup:

https://permies.com/t/135866/kitchen/Favorite-Soup

https://permies.com/t/146830/kitchen/Potato-Soup

https://permies.com/t/150350/kitchen/Turn-Fall-Vegetable-Soup

This one might be interesting:

https://permies.com/t/118912/Making-Food-Drinks-Cheap-Lazy

I love all of Lorrine's advice.
I have a just-turned 12-year-old son and two 17-year-old girls, but living in southern Mexico, I don't have much of a problem with diet as there simply are not very many processed foods around us. But I want to chime in and say that 11 years old is very much old enough to have a documentary night each week.  And there are plenty of documentaries with food-nutrition themes that are suitable to show your daughter to get her thinking about what she eats. There's also a young readers edition of Micheal Pollen's classic The Omnivore's Dilemma which I read aloud with my older two and now you've reminded me that I have neglected to read it with my 12-year-old as he was about 3 when I read it to his sisters.

I mean no one could properly predict that. It has genetic components, etc. However, that's a lot of fast food and pre-packaged foods. I'd be cooking more but then I really like cooking and so does my husband. SO just start making better food and you'll be fine.

My tuppenceworth: take it v..e..r..y slowly. Do not get into a fight about food.
I would introduce new "healthier" foods as a "treat" to begin with.
It would help enormously if you could get your partner on board.
A British doctor/TV presenter (Chris Van Tulleken) made a programme called "What are we Feeding our Kids?" about the effect of eating ultra processed foods (long lists of ingredients, many of which your granny wouldn't recognise). He followed an 80% highly processed food diet for a month and was shocked at the effect on his body and brain. Luckily, the effects were reversible once he returned to his usual healthier diet.
I always give a wry smile at the advice to "hide" vegetables in pasta sauce. That would never have worked with my son - he only ate his pasta plain.
Good luck.

So much good advice here, I hope you don't feel too overwhelmed and that you took some of it on board and feel supported in your endeavour!!

If I could put my two cents worth, I think that if it were my child, I would start by using strong flavours in the new fresh food that I'd cook for her, like in salad dressing, sauces etc, to replace all the overwhelming chemical flavours, sugars, fats and MSG that she is used to in her current diet.  Otherwise everything is going to seem so blend to her palate, that she will not appreciate your effort and fight back.  Soya sauce, spices, herbs, cheese, roasted seeds come to mind.  Start with being heavy on the salt, that is what she is used to, and then overtime, decrease the amount gently until her taste buds get adjusted.

Also, all those chemicals are addictive, so it maybe be strange to you, but right now, she's a junkie of sorts, and I would wean her off gently.  Too fast, you may create digestive problems, headaches, cravings and possibly frustration and anger.  There are some good recipes here, just adapt them to your family's taste.

I wish you good luck and courage. You are in the right place to find a virtual shoulder to lean on if you need it.  

You've received a HOOT TON of excellent advice, here! I don't have a whole lot to add, but full-fat is, imho, always the best choice, in dairy. The fats are very beneficial, nutritionally, but also fill you faster, and make the food taste richer, so you naturally don't need as much, to be satisfied.

Growing up, our family (both sides - my folks were divorced, when I was young) was generally flat broke - seeds were far cheaper than buying any produce or processed food on the shelf, so we had a lot of fresh produce in the summer and fall, and home canned or frozen food, the rest of the year. Desserts were mostly reserved for special occasions - unless one of the adults had a craving they just couldn't put off, lol. The main rule was - "eat it, or do without" - because there really was nothing else. As an adult, I just thought it was a wise policy, regardless of finances. That rule ensured that all 11 of us (both sides, combined) grew up adventurous eaters, thrilled to try anything new, so it was the rule my kids - and stepkids grew up with. All 5 will at least try anything.

But, those desserts? *As a part of anyone's regular diet, it's not a great idea*, but... Sometimes, ya just gotta. When you do have dessert, I personally think it smart to protect your digestive system, hormones, and, pretty much all of your body, if you try to enjoy them without all the processed stuff, and stick to healthy options. Fruits are a perfect, handy, very sweet, convenience food - but, not your only option, for desserts, even if you're being strict about nutritional value. There are loads of websites out there, specifically about healthy cooking. These blogs are a couple I really enjoy, not just for desserts, but some good ones for comfort foods, and just daily eating:

https://chocolatecoveredkatie.com/recipe-index/

https://sugarfreelondoner.com/recipes/

but full-fat is, imho, always the best choice, in dairy. The fats are very beneficial, nutritionally, but also fill you faster, and make the food taste richer, so you naturally don't need as much, to be satisfied.

I most definitely agree.  Besides, skimmed milk has all its goodness removed then artificial vitamin A and D are added as well as some sugar to make it palatable.  Personally. I'd rather have the real thing  - and no, it's not coca-cola!

As for dessert, it's not rocket science, fruits will always be more appealing if sliced and presented prettily on a plate with a toothpick.  Years ago I bought a yoghurt machine,  It uses 17W electricity and makes me 8 yoghurts overnight.  Sliced bananas, a couple of almond, yoghurt with a drizzle of honey or maple is divine.  As a very occasional treat, add a few chocolate chips and of course in the summer, any berries can replace or be added to the banana.  The same combination can be turned into a smoothy for variation and you can even slip in some avocado or nut butter in it.  Cereal bars are easy to make and healthy, cookies (I always halve the sugar in the recipes) also can be a treat,  A handful of nuts and raisins make a decent treat or dessert also.  The possibilities are endless, and the child does not have to feel that she's missing out on anything.  Oh, of course, frozen yoghurt is great too!

By the way, she might enjoy making cookies and cereal bars with you!  She might even enjoy being in charge of the yoghurt making process.

Trace Oswald wrote:I don't mean this to sound harsh, but there is almost no food on the list.  

No, I don't think that was harsh, that was great! This is what I needed to confirm, so I was expecting it. Thank you :)

Trace Oswald wrote:
When I was raising my son, he ate meat, fruits, and vegetables almost exclusively, with only the very occasional desert item. Treats for him were things like macaroni and cheese, which he absolutely loved, so we had that once every couple weeks. He had some other things like that that were his favorites, so we had them once in awhile and he always got to pick what he wanted for his dinner on birthdays and the like. He ate that, because that's what his mother and I ate. He grew up healthy and strong, and I don't think he ever felt "deprived". We raised him to eat that way, so that was what he knew.

It's too bad that things like this - correctly feeding your children - are generally taken for granted. Although I knew many things already - there were many other things that I am only learning now in my mid 50s. I wish I had had this info prior to my daughter being born.

Trace Oswald wrote:
It will be harder for you I think, simply because eating bad food is already a habit, so I would implement changes slowly.

Unfortunately this is correct :(

Trace Oswald wrote:
I would very strongly limit computer  time.

Right, I am also working on that ;)

Trace Oswald wrote:
As I said, I hope none of this sounds harsh.  

Quite the contrary, and I appreciate every word :)

Trace Oswald wrote:
I applaud you for thinking about this, trying to come up with ideas, and taking time to post the question here.  Your daughter is lucky to have an involved parent that cares about her diet and exercise.  Best of luck to you both.

Thank you so much for those kind words Trace, they make the road a bit less daunting  :)

Olga Booker wrote:So much good advice here, I hope you don't feel too overwhelmed and that you took some of it on board and feel supported in your endeavor!!

I am so impressed at the very generous support I have found here, beautiful people! :)

Olga Booker wrote:
If I could put my two cents worth, I think that if it were my child, I would start by using strong flavours in the new fresh food that I'd cook for her, like in salad dressing, sauces etc, to replace all the overwhelming chemical flavours, sugars, fats and MSG that she is used to in her current diet.  Otherwise everything is going to seem so blend to her palate, that she will not appreciate your effort and fight back.  Soya sauce, spices, herbs, cheese, roasted seeds come to mind.  Start with being heavy on the salt, that is what she is used to, and then overtime, decrease the amount gently until her taste buds get adjusted.

Also, all those chemicals are addictive, so it maybe be strange to you, but right now, she's a junkie of sorts, and I would wean her off gently.  Too fast, you may create digestive problems, headaches, cravings and possibly frustration and anger.  There are some good recipes here, just adapt them to your family's taste.

This is a very good thing to notice! I am so glad you pointed it out so clearly :)

Olga Booker wrote:
I wish you good luck and courage. You are in the right place to find a virtual shoulder to lean on if you need it.  

Thank you so much for your beautiful words Olga :)

Ara Murray wrote:My tuppenceworth: take it v..e..r..y slowly. Do not get into a fight about food.

Such a very important point, I agree :)

Ara Murray wrote:
I would introduce new "healthier" foods as a "treat" to begin with.

I like the idea of turning around the negative connotation into a positive one, nice :)

Ara Murray wrote:
It would help enormously if you could get your partner on board.

Mmm, that's another project I'm working on ;)

Ara Murray wrote:
A British doctor/TV presenter (Chris Van Tulleken) made a program called "What are we Feeding our Kids?" about the effect of eating ultra processed foods (long lists of ingredients, many of which your granny wouldn't recognize). He followed an 80% highly processed food diet for a month and was shocked at the effect on his body and brain. Luckily, the effects were reversible once he returned to his usual healthier diet.

This is great! I am already looking at this, and related videos and reading sources that I can use as a reference for my project. Thank you for sharing :)

Ara Murray wrote:
I always give a wry smile at the advice to "hide" vegetables in pasta sauce. That would never have worked with my son - he only ate his pasta plain.
Good luck.

I know what you mean, unfortunately my daughter has her spaghetti plain too (rolling eyes). It's a good idea though. I'll try to implemented somehow ;)

Thank you Ara :)

Just found this article at Molly Green, thought it would be relevant to add to this already great collection of advice and info: Nutrition Facts for Kids, Nutritional Advice For Children Then and Now :  https://mollygreen.com/blog/wisdom-from-our-ancestors-food/

Let me say that my daughter around that age only wanted breads and pastas, the all white non nutritional kinds. I made my daughter a deal that for the most part she could eat what she wanted but that she had to try at least a bit of veggies at dinner. We ate a lot of broccoli for a long time or corn, and during high school they were eating salads at the school cafeteria (until food poisoning ruined that) but finally at 28 they are exploring fruits and veggies and combos of food on their own. Sometimes just putting things in front of them and allowing them to choose it and try it without pressure is enough.

Also mixing the broccoli with cheese or butter and Italian seasoning worked like a charm. Carrots with ranch, celery with peanut butter. Combos of familiar food with an unfamiliar one is also a great way to introduce or encourage foods. We used to cut up raw veggies or apples and put them on the plate with say goldfish crackers. Get creative! Fruit skewers also come to mind for a fun factor.

Just a thought inspired by Candice's post.... This printable resource has come in very handy for me and the 28-year-old in my life: SMOOTHIES. Great resource with tips and recipes for the young-at-heart to eat those home-grown veggies and blossom into our best selves.

Kids are great little food burning machines!
That being said I’d cut out all fast food, except for the occasional treat, nothing healthy at those places regardless how they label and market it.
There is nothing wrong with cheeses and dips on foods for her, she will burn off stuff a lot faster then an adult will.
Plus she will eat it then.
Don’t lose site that children require more fat in their diet than an adult does, so I wouldn’t sweat that to much either.

This is an older thread, but some food for thought as I also have an 11 year old whose diet could be better (she'd only eat bread and cheese if we let her). She's always been extremely picky, and we've had some wins and some losses over the year.

One thing I've learned around processed food is that it's safe: it always has exactly the same texture and taste. And when a child is anxious around food, and especially food textures, knowing exactly how something will taste is very calming. So it's not just about "junk", it's about predictability.

So knowing that, I try to make sure that we give her some leeway when she's going through difficult things. I won't push for new foods if she's just had a fight with her best friend, or if she's in an unusual social setting (for a long time, we had to let other kids' parents know that she probably wouldn't have a bite at their place. It's not that she rejected her food - it's just that it was too stressful for her to deal with a new place + new food. And we raised her to say "thank you, but I'm not hungry" instead of "yuck"). I also expect that her diet will go south at the start of every school year, and then slowly go back to normal.

I also try to have new foods in addition to safe choices, not as the sole option (no, a kid who is distressed and hungry enough won't "eventually eat". She's more likely to summon demons than to eat a scary food when she's starving and emotionally riled up. Whereas if she knows she can have plain pasta, she might try the sauce on the side and have an unusual veggie).

And my main strategy is really to push for fruits and veggies as my number 1 priority, and not worry about calories or remove stuff from her diet. Our family motto is "let's avoid scurvy!" So we're playing with variants.

For fruits:
- pre-sliced (ex: she won't eat an orange if she has to peel it, but she will eat it if it's sliced in supremes with not a hint of pith)
- poached
- dehydrated or freeze dried
- as part of baked goods (see my Banavoine recipe)
- as homemade fruit leathers
- puréed
- in crumbles

For vegetables:
- raw with tasty dips (we've revived the old classic of celery with processed cheese spread. One step at a time! She's eating celery!)
- roasted
- salad with dressing on the side
- in bechamel gratins
- pureed or dehydrated and pulsed, and then mixed in cracker dough
- in pureed soups (not always a hit, but sometimes it works)

The more unprocessed the produce, the better, but sometimes, the processed version can be a gateway towards familiarity.

Getting her involved with her food also helps. She knows how to make herself a few basic things like scrambled eggs, and it helps with predictability if you cook it yourself.

She will often have an "all-dressed" yogurt as a snack: fruits, seeds, nuts and greek yogurt with a bit of sweetener. Probably sweeter than I would have it, but it's more balanced than packaged snacks.

Oh, she also puts sliced carrots on her homemade pizza because at some point I said "you can have any veggie you want, as long as there's some". It's now become her classic. It's weird, but hey, weird beats none.

(Teaching my 11 year old to make pizza dough from whole wheat flour was another game changer. Much easier to do homemade pizza if you have minions to do the dough for you, and you can use healthier sauces, more flavorful cheese in more reasonable quantities, alternate proteins...    And 11 is a perfect age to get into more complex baking.)