The Wheaton Eco Scale

kyle saunders wrote:this infographic is especially inspiring! i mean i feel like a real ecoguy most of the time but it is humbling to remember that i fit somewhere between 2-4. i'm not even halfway to where i'd like to be! it's kinda nice to know the road is much much longer, as the road up to this point has been really an amazing ride.

i think i actually went down a point this year, as we lost all our seedlings to chance and i abandoned the garden for a season. it's amazing to know how much i relied on that garden. (not just for food, i am so out of shape this year!)

but a simple request from this olaf ! that level 10 graphic, can you make that separate from the rest of the image, and without the info? i would love this graphic on a tshirt/poster, just sepp holzer in front of his downhill paradise sitting on a hoooogel. the whole infographic is awesome on the computer, but for my own personal motivation i just need to remember to let sepp guide it. annd i just noticed the lemon tree. so nice

cool. thanks for starting my monday with some inspirations!

Julia Winter wrote:Where to get the t-shirt?  Actually, you could get a tote bag as well. . .

https://theecoquestshio.teemill.co.uk/category/permaculture-heroes-583/

(I don't know what shipping costs, I just wanted to make it easy for people to check out the merch.)

Devaka Cooray wrote:Would LED be a good alternative to fluorescent bulbs for the people at level 3 ?

Tyler Ludens wrote:I won't be able to move past level 4 because I won't ever take a PDC or teach.  

Nicole Alderman wrote:

Another thing that that should be mentioned is how it is living with a spouse that is a few levels behind you. They want all the lawn mowed with a gas mower. You have to restrain them from dousing bindweed with roundup. They put everything in plastic trashbags ("oh look, meat scraps we can't eat, guess I'll put them in the trash." But, when you put something that decomposes into a trashbag that doesn't decompose, it can't make it back to the earth). They don't care about driving to and from town everyday to pick up a few more things. They pull weeds that aren't harmful and fill an environmental nitch (fireweed, wall lettuce). They want to spray bleach and antkiller all around the house to keep ants and weeds away...even though we have ducks foraging there...

It just shows how those upper Wheaton Eco Scale people really are amazing to have attained those higher levels!

Dana Martin wrote:She just can't get passed the idea of not having a big expanse for a lawn.

Tyler Ludens wrote:

Dana Martin wrote:She just can't get passed the idea of not having a big expanse for a lawn.

Does she want to maintain the lawn herself, or does she ask you to do it?  If she does it herself, then try to negotiate on spaces for your plantings, and a space for her lawn.  If she expects you to maintain the lawn, then I think you have some grounds for drawing a line - a line around a smallish lawn.  A very well maintained little lawn can be a beautiful thing in a yard, I often wish we had one.  I like little circular lawns - they are easy to mow and irrigate.

paul wheaton wrote:

permutations wrote:
What's PDC (Professional Developers Conference, Pacific Disaster Center, Public Disclosure Commission, Primary Domain Controller, Pioneer Drilling Company...)?

Permaculture Design Course.  Typically 14 very long days of intensive study in permaculture.

Amy Christensen wrote:

paul wheaton wrote:

permutations wrote:
What's PDC (Professional Developers Conference, Pacific Disaster Center, Public Disclosure Commission, Primary Domain Controller, Pioneer Drilling Company...)?

Permaculture Design Course.  Typically 14 very long days of intensive study in permaculture.

Is there a PDC that you recommend around this area? Are you hosting one perhaps? Or is someone looking for a place to host one? I'd gladly host one at my place!

Dana Martin wrote:

Nicole Alderman wrote:

Another thing that that should be mentioned is how it is living with a spouse that is a few levels behind you. They want all the lawn mowed with a gas mower. You have to restrain them from dousing bindweed with roundup. They put everything in plastic trashbags ("oh look, meat scraps we can't eat, guess I'll put them in the trash." But, when you put something that decomposes into a trashbag that doesn't decompose, it can't make it back to the earth). They don't care about driving to and from town everyday to pick up a few more things. They pull weeds that aren't harmful and fill an environmental nitch (fireweed, wall lettuce). They want to spray bleach and antkiller all around the house to keep ants and weeds away...even though we have ducks foraging there...

It just shows how those upper Wheaton Eco Scale people really are amazing to have attained those higher levels!

How can we work with these spouses??? My spouse grew up around a manicured lawn. They literally trimmed the grass around the outer buildings and house with hand shears!!  She just can't get passed the idea of not having a big expanse for a lawn. I have asked her to come to a PDC and that went over like a fart in church. Can anyone give me any ideas?

Dana Martin wrote:

Nicole Alderman wrote:

How can we work with these spouses??? My spouse grew up around a manicured lawn. They literally trimmed the grass around the outer buildings and house with hand shears!!  She just can't get passed the idea of not having a big expanse for a lawn. I have asked her to come to a PDC and that went over like a fart in church. Can anyone give me any ideas?

Mow your lawn with bunnies!

Any woman who doesn't like bunnies needs therapy

Move it around the yard 2 or 3 times a day. They'll trim it all up and fertilize at the same time.

My pen is 6×8, so figure they mow 1000+ square feet per week.

Deb Rebel wrote:

Dana Martin wrote:

Nicole Alderman wrote:

Another thing that that should be mentioned is how it is living with a spouse that is a few levels behind you. They want all the lawn mowed with a gas mower. You have to restrain them from dousing bindweed with roundup. They put everything in plastic trashbags ("oh look, meat scraps we can't eat, guess I'll put them in the trash." But, when you put something that decomposes into a trashbag that doesn't decompose, it can't make it back to the earth). They don't care about driving to and from town everyday to pick up a few more things. They pull weeds that aren't harmful and fill an environmental nitch (fireweed, wall lettuce). They want to spray bleach and antkiller all around the house to keep ants and weeds away...even though we have ducks foraging there...

It just shows how those upper Wheaton Eco Scale people really are amazing to have attained those higher levels!

How can we work with these spouses??? My spouse grew up around a manicured lawn. They literally trimmed the grass around the outer buildings and house with hand shears!!  She just can't get passed the idea of not having a big expanse for a lawn. I have asked her to come to a PDC and that went over like a fart in church. Can anyone give me any ideas?

We made the rule. He can mow anything he wants but the garden area and front yard are mine. I put little fences around the trees and a few other things and that thus leaves me in charge of those areas as he refuses to move everything and put it back. I haven't ever needed to bale the front lawn but it's gotten a bit long at times....  Around the garden, you better leave my lambs quarters and dandelions ALONE those are my salad greens. I have custody of all the nasty house and yard and garden chemicals too.

Try pitching xeriscaping to her instead of a lawn. That sometimes works. You just sneak a food forest into the plan.

Joel Hollingsworth wrote:Ah, I get it!

It's like categorizing people based on their percentile ranking of SAT score, except that:

a) the scale isn't about standardized test performance, but ecological habits, and

b) in contrast to the linear scale, where each percentile is as common as any other, the scale is logarithmic, so that each level up, people making that grade are several times rarer.

It might be that a minority of people are responsible for the majority of ecological harm done. I think that's the case, so a Hollingsworth scale might go like this:

-10: Richard Bruce Cheney and Thomas Midgley, Jr.
-9:  The 20 people who sold their souls to get to -10, but were cheated. 
-8:  200 or so who've been extremely influential in a negative way.
...
-4:  The 2 million people who give civilization a bad name.
...
-1: 2 billion people who mostly can't be bothered to make ecologically responsible choices.
0:  The one person who is most nearly average. This title shifts around a lot, more because the individual who held it has changed than because the average shifted out from under them.
1:  2 billion people who lack the power to act on their ecologically responsible intentions.
...
8: 200 people we've never heard of, but to whom most of us owe our lives.
9: Maybe 3 of these 20 people are famous...I'd guess Will Allen, Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi, and Masanobu Fukuoka, but that's not a particularly well-informed guess.
10: These two people and their associates were killed, and quietly erased from history, but the changes they made live on far longer than their memory.

A sane adult will be a little uneasy interacting meaningfully with anyone who has a magnitude above 6. People with a magnitude of three or so feel a lot of pity for the people nearer the center of the scale, and are often mean-spirited to those with roughly equal magnitude but opposite sign. 8 and above spend a lot of time trying to keep 4 from getting in their way: half of this work is to escape organized opposition, and the other half is to prevent sympathizers from behaving counterproductively.

Deb Rebel wrote:

Dana Martin wrote:

Nicole Alderman wrote:

Another thing that that should be mentioned is how it is living with a spouse that is a few levels behind you. They want all the lawn mowed with a gas mower. You have to restrain them from dousing bindweed with roundup. They put everything in plastic trashbags ("oh look, meat scraps we can't eat, guess I'll put them in the trash." But, when you put something that decomposes into a trashbag that doesn't decompose, it can't make it back to the earth). They don't care about driving to and from town everyday to pick up a few more things. They pull weeds that aren't harmful and fill an environmental nitch (fireweed, wall lettuce). They want to spray bleach and antkiller all around the house to keep ants and weeds away...even though we have ducks foraging there...

It just shows how those upper Wheaton Eco Scale people really are amazing to have attained those higher levels!

How can we work with these spouses??? My spouse grew up around a manicured lawn. They literally trimmed the grass around the outer buildings and house with hand shears!!  She just can't get passed the idea of not having a big expanse for a lawn. I have asked her to come to a PDC and that went over like a fart in church. Can anyone give me any ideas?

We made the rule. He can mow anything he wants but the garden area and front yard are mine. I put little fences around the trees and a few other things and that thus leaves me in charge of those areas as he refuses to move everything and put it back. I haven't ever needed to bale the front lawn but it's gotten a bit long at times....  Around the garden, you better leave my lambs quarters and dandelions ALONE those are my salad greens. I have custody of all the nasty house and yard and garden chemicals too.

Try pitching xeriscaping to her instead of a lawn. That sometimes works. You just sneak a food forest into the plan.

paul wheaton wrote:I added some image fragments so it is easier to tinker with ....

Jocelyn Campbell wrote:

paul wheaton wrote:I added some image fragments so it is easier to tinker with ....

Just today someone noticed this part of the image has composting spelled wrong! How did we all miss that?

redacted

have a look at this

paul wheaton wrote: most people find folks one level back are ignorant.  Two levels back are assholes.  Any further back and they should be shot on sight for the betterment of society as a whole.  I find that all of these reactions are innapropriate.

It sounds like you are looking at the level one and two people from a level four or five, point of view.  

When someone is just starting out they feel a small pride in what they did.  Hey look, I grew a carrot!  

But if someone comes along and says, you did it wrong for murdering that dandelion, then they aren't going to want to grow carrots ever again.  They are going to back to their TV and consumer lifestyle.  

Whereas if someone says, wow!  Great job with that carrot!  I've got a trick for growing even better-tasting carrots for less work if you want to try it.  You do?  Great, come with me and I'll tell you all about polyculture. Then the person will continue on their journey towards a better path.

The first method says there is one right way and every other way is wrong and must be stopped!  This method closes down brains and prevents permaculture from seeping in.  The other method gives a pat on the back and offers gentle guidance for when the person is ready.  A positive experience opens minds and open minds are willing to learn.  


That's what permies is about for me - gently helping people open their minds, not shutting it down with talk about how wrong they are.

Ashley Cottonwood wrote:No... because every year I get better. Every year I'm able to encourage the restaurants to improve their compost quality. And next year I'm hoping to sell my beyond organic produce to them. But sometimes it's hard to remember that when you're looking up at the "greats". They all started somewhere too.