• Post Reply Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic
permaculture forums growies critters building homesteading energy monies kitchen purity ungarbage community wilderness fiber arts art permaculture artisans regional education skip experiences global resources cider press projects digital market permies.com pie forums private forums all forums
this forum made possible by our volunteer staff, including ...
master stewards:
  • Anne Miller
  • Leigh Tate
  • jordan barton
  • Pearl Sutton
  • Nicole Alderman
stewards:
  • r ranson
  • paul wheaton
  • Greg Martin
master gardeners:
  • Carla Burke
  • John F Dean
  • Jay Angler
gardeners:
  • Nancy Reading
  • Mike Barkley
  • L. Johnson

The Wheaton Eco Scale

 
Posts: 126
Location: Middle of South Dakota, 4a
32
hugelkultur fungi chicken
  • Likes 6
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Not sure how I stumbled on the ten year old post but I love it. Personally I'm about to graduate from 3 to 4. Sat at a two for many years, content with what I knew at the moment. Hubs is at the beginning of level 2. He is starting to see the benefit of the couple permaculture areas I created in our backyard. He kind of shook his head while I laid the chips, added the compost and planted bulbs and moved native species over. He even declared it a failure after a few weeks (I created it in November). Now he is willingly helping my build hugelkultur, not easy for his type A personality (the Chaos!).

Hoping our youngest children will leave home at level three or more! Excited to keep this adventure growing!

PS. Never considered different dandelions have a variety of flavor. Putting find the delicious variety on my list. I've got at least four kinds out there!
 
steward
Posts: 36146
Location: missoula, montana (zone 4)
hugelkultur trees chicken wofati bee woodworking
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I think type A folks do the best with permaculture.  Hell, sepp is at the top of the list.
 
gardener
Posts: 2189
Location: Cascades of Oregon
316
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
bump
 
Posts: 9
  • Likes 3
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Can someone stick a link in here for the original podcast episodes about the "Wheaton Eco-Scale"?  I can't remember which episode(s) it was or find it through Google.  Thanks!  I love this infographic so much, just seeing it for the first time today.   I also think hearing Paul discuss and describe his concept is best way to understand the idea.  Trying to spread these concepts and build bridges with people who are caught up in the misunderstanding that cities can be "green".
 
pollinator
Posts: 2209
Location: Meppel (Drenthe, the Netherlands)
682
dog forest garden urban cooking bike fiber arts
  • Likes 5
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Observation 1:  most people find folks one or two levels up took pretty cool.  People three levels up look a bit nutty.  People four of five levels up look downright crazy.  People six levels up should probably be institutionalized.   I find the latter reactions to be inappropriate.

Observations 2:  most people find folks one level back are ignorant.  Two levels back are assholes.  Any further back and they should be shot on sight for the betterment of society as a whole.  I find that all of these reactions are innapropriate.



I don't have any bad feelings about anyone, whatever 'level' they are. In fact I think all people have a little bit of every level in them (potentially). By showing them what's possible they will start seeing it isn't impossible to live a different life. And the tiny part of Permie inside of them will start coming out, so they can start 'rising a level', one level at the time or maybe even in larger steps! ;-)
Myself I am not at one fixed level, in some things I'm at a higher level than in others. And I am still going forwards ... (or maybe sometimes a little step backwards)
 
paul wheaton
steward
Posts: 36146
Location: missoula, montana (zone 4)
hugelkultur trees chicken wofati bee woodworking
  • Likes 11
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
and now the scale is available as a video ...



 
Posts: 20
Location: Zone 4a/5b, New Brunswick, Canada
4
forest garden trees homestead
  • Likes 7
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Wow!!! I'm so impressed. I loved the image of the scale, but this I can get people to watch and listen to. Great presentation of the concepts. Thanks for all your hard work!
 
paul wheaton
steward
Posts: 36146
Location: missoula, montana (zone 4)
hugelkultur trees chicken wofati bee woodworking
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Wow, the upvote to downvote ratio on youtube is looking pretty sad - this might even end up as my lowest rated video ever ....   i thought the video turned out really good.   I was thinking that this video was going to get major views and major upvotes.
 
Posts: 9
6
kids forest garden books
  • Likes 9
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Posted this (with the link of course) in a "moderately granola" group on Facebook for families interested in the crunchy lifestyle. Described why I love it and the labels. Immediately got told off by an admin for "using the ableist term 'crazy' " That's enough Facebook for...forever, I'm going out to my garden. Argh.
 
master steward
Posts: 18234
Location: Pacific Northwest
8622
7
hugelkultur kids cat duck forest garden foraging fiber arts sheep wood heat homestead
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Maybe a lot of the downvotes are because the narrator doesn't quite have the same humor as Paul? To me, he comes across as serious and like he doesn't quite understand why he's reading what he's reading, and doesn't quite agree with it. Maybe that makes the viewer not nearly as persuaded--and more likely to be offended--by the video?
 
gardener
Posts: 210
Location: Colombia - Tropical dry forest
150
forest garden fish fungi trees tiny house earthworks bee solar woodworking greening the desert homestead
  • Likes 4
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I think this subject is controversial in it of itself even tho it’s advocating for people to be less judgemental of others and proposing a better understanding of what “Eco” can mean in a deeper and fun way. But this is good because it starts a conversation, specially if it’s inward. So people will get emotional and those who disagree will initially boo but as I write this the ratio is getting better and better :)

I really hope this one goes viral and reaches as many people as possible because it’s very thought provoking. And a good thing of having these ideas showcased in a linear way  is that it presents an exponential model for growth. No matter where you are in the scale there’s people and specially an Austrian guy who have proven that doing this is possible. Having the hope of being able to get to that level of understanding and impact is very inspirational.
I can’t help myself and smile when I imagine a world where the stats on this scale drastically change and billions of people start to do things in what I too believe is a “better” way.
 
Posts: 122
Location: Manotick (Ottawa), Ontario
13
  • Likes 3
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I'm trying to conserve my expensive bandwidth and didn't make it past Level 6 in the video, but I was really chuckling at that point. Your suggestion of each of us making our own scale is sensible, because what seems valuable and important is subjective (and changeable).

For example, I used to give a lot of weight to organic food. However, although I garden organically, I've learned the significant limitations, even damage, that accompany doing it on the large scale required to feed large populations with relatively few farmers. I also don't want (and poor people can't afford) to pay premium prices for food with no apparent flavour or nutritional superiority, especially produce that's wilted or sporting bad spots, which is not uncommon in the supermarkets in my area.

The "carbon footprint" gauge is another subjective one. Striving to use energy efficiently is supported, I suspect, by most people. But being able to utilize abundant low cost energy allows me to accomplish many tasks that would be impossible or take too long using more primitive methods. (I've tried some of the old-style methods long before "badge bits" were around. 🙄) It seems to me that Permies-type efforts at broad self-sufficiency are greatly aided by utilizing all forms of energy and materials available to us. I'm looking forward to having a completed RMH in my hoophouse this winter to use some of my abundant tree trimmings efficiently, but I'm grateful that I could use an electric heater last winter to confirm the viability of growing veggies through a cold northern winter.

My scale is shorter -- perhaps 6 levels, but the idea has merit. As Andrés wrote, it's thought-provoking.
 
David Wieland
Posts: 122
Location: Manotick (Ottawa), Ontario
13
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I'd say the video is well done but has an ideological slant that surprised me. I've learned through research that some of the fashionable "eco" claims are at best dubious and don't deserve the cachet they've been accorded.
 
pollinator
Posts: 148
Location: Western MA, zone 6b
51
dog forest garden urban
  • Likes 3
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
The idea is that everyone is on a progressive path and judging others or assigning them a number isn't productive.    At least that's what I get from it.   Just got my book copy and it's excellent, implemented 2 new ideas immediately,   2 more are now back on my radar and taking the next research steps.    About to go drop it at our local free library outpost today.
 
steward
Posts: 3500
Location: Moved from south central WI to Portland, OR
841
8
hugelkultur urban chicken food preservation bike bee
  • Likes 3
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
This is great!  I think Olaf made this?  I love it.

The thumbs up are more than 10X the thumbs down now, but the view count is less than 2000.  I'm going to share this with some non-permie folks now, see if we can drive the view count.
 
paul wheaton
steward
Posts: 36146
Location: missoula, montana (zone 4)
hugelkultur trees chicken wofati bee woodworking
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
When I posted earlier it was something like 86% thumbs up - which was awful.   It is now up to 92%!   92% is still pretty low, but not my worst.

 
Nicole Alderman
master steward
Posts: 18234
Location: Pacific Northwest
8622
7
hugelkultur kids cat duck forest garden foraging fiber arts sheep wood heat homestead
 
Posts: 4
2
  • Likes 3
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Jane Payne wrote:Posted this (with the link of course) in a "moderately granola" group on Facebook for families interested in the crunchy lifestyle. Described why I love it and the labels. Immediately got told off by an admin for "using the ableist term 'crazy' " That's enough Facebook for...forever, I'm going out to my garden. Argh.



Hey! I replied to your comment on that facebook post, then couldn't find it again later. Came here to look for the "levels" thread because I hadn't seen it before, despite hours and hours of reading. Can't believe you got in trouble for it! Anyway, thanks for sharing because I enjoyed looking at it from that perspective.
 
gardener
Posts: 732
Location: Pacific North West
495
cattle foraging books chicken cooking food preservation fiber arts writing homestead
  • Likes 3
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator


 
Posts: 1
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Lol I loved the scale I love number 10 guy but I’m a 1 . I found his mountain and It looked like my dreams of Zion. Too bad the movie wasn’t in English. Looks like living in an apartment can keep people back from what they see in their hearts. We should each be given land we would all progress faster down the eco path just being reconnected to land again.
 
gardener
Posts: 883
Location: British Columbia
605
2
monies home care forest garden foraging chicken wood heat homestead ungarbage
  • Likes 6
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Hi Dawn,

Have you seen PEA?  Permacuture Education for Apartment Dwellers ? Perhaps this would be a good place to explore?
 
paul wheaton
steward
Posts: 36146
Location: missoula, montana (zone 4)
hugelkultur trees chicken wofati bee woodworking
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
the movie in english

https://permies.com/wiki/141614/videos/Sepp-Holzer-Permaculture-documentaries-Farming

 
The overall mission is to change the world. When you've done that, then you can read this tiny ad:
Sepp Holzer's 3-in-1 Permaculture documentaries (Farming, Terraces, and Aquaculture) streaming video
https://permies.com/wiki/141614/videos/Sepp-Holzer-Permaculture-documentaries-Farming
reply
    Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic