Downsizing Questions

I need to downsize. I am getting older, the kids are gone and we are empty-nesters now, and honestly I am paying way too much property tax for houses and land we dod not use.

I have a realtor of course, but she could not answer me on what to do with all the options we have. It stems from having multiple properties, in different deeds, with some being adjacent to one another, and some not.

Option #1:  Keep everything, pay our property taxes, and just watch the fences topple over and the unused fields grow into trees.

Option #2: Sell our main house, barn, and 3 acres of land, then build a new house across the road where a vacant house now stands, letting the people use the rest of the land that we have if they needed it. This would give us a well, septic, electricity, ground work, etc all ready done making the new house build be cheaper by about $30,000.

Option #3: Sell our main house but include for sale the 30 acres across the road that has the vacant house on it. Its not a lot of land for homesteading granted but someone could do something with it if they wanted a few acres of breathing room. We would build a new house on an adjacent piece of land, but without a well and septic and groundwork already done.

Option #4: Sell our main house, barn, and 3 acres of land, but include the 30 acres across the road, but let them know there is another 100 acres or so they could use if they needed it for hay, crops etc. We would not sell it, but if someone needed it, they could use it.

Option #5: Sell everything then buy a new house somewhere else.

My question is, as homesteaders what would appeal the most to you? I know owning land is nice, but it is hard to finance acreage, is expensive and comes with property taxes too. The realtor is really wanting an answer, and I am not sure what to do.

I know it's not what you asked, but don't let a realtor shove into moving faster than you want to.   Nice to have options.   Unless you are desperate this minute,  take the time to mentally explore them all.

For me personally,  I don't love where I am as an "end game" plan.   I want a slightly warmer climate and longer growing season.  So if i had the chance to cash it all out and go somewhere new and closer to my ideal goal,  that's the choice I'd make.  

Two things.

First, I also wanted to end up in a warmer growing zone so I sold it all and am moving south. It has taken way longer than expected and prices are going up faster than I ever expected.  It is not simple to move a homestead 500 miles

Second, I know a few people that built their retirement home next door to the original homestead. Some did fine, but most had real issues watching the new owners take the property in a different direction than they were going.

I would pick a property with a livable house.

Sell everything else.

Couple of thoughts...
If you were to sell everything and move, would you be moving to be closer to family or a support network? What kind of support network would you be leaving?
Are there health/safety issues that would make living in your current house a problem?  Other than size and taxes, are you happy with where you are?
What does your other half think?

I would also like to propose a #4 to your list...
Stay put and "hire" a young person/couple who want to farm/homestead to take over slowly under your supervision. And when I say "hire" I mean offer them the opportunity and the use of the vacant house while they are learning the ropes of running your farm. Where I live there is an organization called The Land Connection that matches young farmer/homesteaders with older farmers either wanting to transition out of the day to day or get out completely while knowing the farm will remain a farm. I know a couple of people who have gone this route. One went flawlessly and the other ended up well after some hiccups at the beginning.

I guess the other consideration is whether you would be okay with a developer buying what ever acreage you decide to sell? For me that would be the biggest concern. I wonder if a chat with a good real estate attorney or property trust person would be beneficial in finding out if there are other options out there for lowering your property taxes while safeguarding the land.

Big change is never an easy thing. Good luck!

I don't know what it is to be at this stage of life, but I imagine it isn't easy - so be gentle on yourself in this process, huh?

The only thing I can offer than may have any value is that it's worth having a think about what size of land would enable you to use the land management practices you're more inclined towards.  We are on a single acre, but when we started looking the first property we tried to buy was 10 acres.  The land management practices I'm inclined towards is doing it all by hand, no animals (I meant besides the dog currently, we're also getting ducks and geese any day now), with hand tools, and bouncing between non-critical/non-urgent projects as I feel the calling to move towards something new and novel.  I would have struggled on 10 acres, and the 10 acres would have struggled with me on it.  Certainly I would have had to shift land management practices.  Maybe I would have and still been as happy - I just don't know.  What I do know is there's nothing that brings me as much joy as getting my fingers in "our" soil.

I reckon for all of us there's a sweet spot in land size that allows us to interact with the most joy.  It's defo worth figuring out what that is for you.

As a side note, we bought our acre directly from the previous land owner, and she's holding the mortgage - basically a rent-to-own situation.  She changed lifestyles completely, and moved to a differeent region, and doing it this way means we don't have to deal with banks (who don't like our previously itinerant lifestyle or people trying to buy small, rural sections that they can't sell quickly if they foreclose) and she's got 10 years of dependable income to get settled into her new surroundings and figure out what's next for her.  Which I only mention because, in my opinion it's always worth considering.

Best of luck, whatever you decide.

Laura Trovillion wrote:Couple of thoughts...
If you were to sell everything and move, would you be moving to be closer to family or a support network? What kind of support network would you be leaving?
Are there health/safety issues that would make living in your current house a problem?  Other than size and taxes, are you happy with where you are?
What does your other half think?

Just for the record, you had other good points, I just truncated your quoted post for size considerations, and to specifically address this. But by all means yes, I read what else you wrote and do realize you made some valid points for me to consider.

I would actually be leaving family here, but I am no sure that is such a bad thing. We have been here for a few generations, but the future of the family died when my son died sadly enough, so even if I was to stick it out; the legacy has died.

The biggest thing we would be leaving behind is land with a view and very fertile soil, if we were to sell it all. We can see to the northwest some 150 miles, so it is quite a view, and a nice place to put a new house. Fiscally wise, it would be good too, as the sale of the other houses would enable us to build a new house without having to take the money out of savings to build it.

As for the house itself now: no, it is all on one level which is nice, big and open since it is a timber frame with all doors being 36 inches for wheel chair access and all that. I would have to modify the shower so that it was step-in and a stand up shower, but an easy fix if future mobility was an issue. I always had the mind set that "a person is only one car accident away from a possible wheel chair", so I built my houses with that in mind.

I guess my biggest question is how to do all this? What sells better: a house and barn with 3 acres because it is easily financed by a bank, then let the owners use the rest of the farmland as needed? Or would other homesteaders only want a house and 30 acres?

My realtors want us to sell it all because a guy in New Jersey called while we were talking to them that first time. I only heard part of the conversation, but I heard him say he is looking to buy as much land as possible in Maine. So I know if I said, "sell everything", they already have a buyer for the whole farm. But they work for me, and are supposed to work for my best interest only.

My experience has been that most realtors work for their own short term interests. I have bumped into an exception or two.

John F Dean wrote:My experience has been that most realtors work for their own short term interests. I have bumped into an exception or two.

Agreed. I’d say get a 2nd and 3rd opinion. Have you already signed a contract with this agent?

It seems a financial advisor would also be helpful to determine if taxes would really be less… I’m in CA and many friends/acquaintances who sold and bought something else, though much smaller were in a completely different tax bracket and actually had to pay more property taxes than if they had stayed put. (I realize you could stay in part and sell a majority and have a solution.)

Additionally, I’m so sorry for your loss! Losing a child is a painful and difficult thing which definitely can change the trajectory of life. If the grief is still fresh (it never fully goes away completely just changes in my opinion) you may want to make these big decisions even more cautiously.

What are the dreams or daily life the two of you want to be living? I’d say do what can make that happen for you.

I’m looking forward to hearing about what you all decided.

Blessings,

You sound like you might qualify as an Otis for SKIP. If that's something you are interested in anyway.

https://permies.com/t/101848/skills-inherit-property/Otis-test

Alana Rose wrote: I’m so sorry for your loss! Losing a child is a painful and difficult thing which definitely can change the trajectory of life. If the grief is still fresh (it never fully goes away completely just changes in my opinion) you may want to make these big decisions even more cautiously.

What are the dreams or daily life the two of you want to be living? I’d say do what can make that happen for you.

I appreciate your kind words regarding the loss of our son. Sadly I have a very bad habit of saying “we” for everything even though much of what I do in life is alone. It is the case here: it’s my decision alone as our marriage did not survive the loss. There were other factors at work… but not infidelity on either of our parts, just so everyone knows, that ended the marriage, but atlas it’s over.

I call them “era’s”, not as in mistakes, but moments of my life. The era of kids and a wife are over for me, and now it’s on to the next section of my life, but what is it?

It’s odd to be suddenly so underwhelmed.

Steve, this sounds like a difficult time and one where holding off on making any big decisions untill you know what is right for you might be wise. Major life transitions are always challenging, even more so when there are multiple losses to grieve - a child, a marriage, the future you hoped for. I'm sorry you're having to deal with all this.

For me, the first step in dealing with unwanted change has to be getting clarity on what I see as my best future life now, what I want my "new normal" to be. I am guessing that step will help most people with making choices on which direction to go next. Depending how you process stuff, journaling, talking it through with someone who will listen without jumping in to fast to give advice, praying, or a combo of all of the above could help.

It's great that you have some resources and choices available to you. Listen to your heart as well as your head. I think you may already know what your choice is and are talking yourself out of it because maybe it seems less sensible. But this is the time to go for what you want.

I don't know enough about the way property taxes work in the US to answer your question about what potential buyers will want. I suspect the answer is 'it depends'!)
I'm sorry that your daughters are apparently not interested in the family holding (I assume you've checked this with them!) and do think it is better to think what will work for you, rather than what a potential buyer may want - it sounds like your agent has a buyer for the whole lot if you just want a clean slate (and large bank balance) to start afresh.
In my experience here, in a beautiful rural area of the UK, people come here to retire and often move away after a year or two. There are two main reasons I believe. One is the weather, it's always beautiful to me, but wet and windy can be depressing after a while. The other reason people move away is distance from family, particularly when grandchildren come along. I'm not sure what your family circumstances are, but if there is a possibility for future small members then you may wish a location to know them (and have them know you) more easily.

Property 1
House
Barn
3 acres
Tax = $5,000
Maintaince = Weeding + Roof/Furnance/etc + Utilities = $12,000
Easiest Sell/Mortgage or Rent

Property 2
House that is currently Vacant
30 acres
Tax = $6,000
Maintaince = Weeding + Roof/Furnance/etc + Utilities = $12,000
Rental Income = $2,000 to $24,000 (at most a $4,000/yr profit)
Mortage company might not finance the extra 150K for the extra 27acres of land

Property 3
100acres of pasture land
Tax = $10,000 (can you lower your tax by changing it to a timber land or farm land or something)
Weeding = $5,000 (can you lend it to some hunter or hay grower if they "mow it"  at no cost to you)
Rental Income from Hay Grower = $0 - $2,500/yr

Options
0 - Keep everything and figure out some ways to "rent/lease/cropshare" out all the property bringing expense to $0
1 - Sell just the 100acre and reduce expenses to $35,000 from $50,000
2 - Sell the 100acre plus the 3acre property reducing expenses to $18,000
3 - same as option2 but build an additinal house on the 30acre for a new total expense of $25,000/year (possiblility of rental income too)
4 - Sell Everything and move to a new duplex in "Florida" reducing Expense (Tax+ Maint.) to just $17,000 from $50,000

Which house do you really love?

Where have you been happiest living?

What does the family want to do?

Would you be leaving family and friends to move somewhere you don't know anyone?

Is moving in the best interest of everyone? Is there a good reason to move?

Land can be subdivided.

I would keep it all or sell it all. It would drive me insane to be next door to a house or land that used to be mine. You never know what the new people would do.

In Texas all of those options have buyers ready though for reference. However here you must have 10acres to claim ag exemption.

My last house and 3acres was more than 5x higher than the taxes on my house and 17 due to the exemptions. Same town etc so it’s same rates.

I am thinking now about just selling the house and 3.5 acres and just leaving the rest for now. I bought a house closer to work since I am on call 24/7/365.

If anyone is interested, it is a great deal because it’s a nice house but there is hundreds of unused acres around it not being used. Buy what you need and is easily financed by a bank and pay little property tax and use all the land you need. I don’t care, I’ll be 16 miles away anyway.

As for the rest of it; the real estate people gave me numbers and it had little value. The vacant house on 30 acres is only worth $85,000 so it’s really not worth selling.

The hundred acre plus piece has no real value either

I hope the move works out well for you, Steve.