Canning after the Apocalypse!

Alright, I try not to think about the end of the world too much, but when it's the middle of January and you're eating the last of the tomatoes you put put up in August, it's hard not to wonder "what would I do if I couldn't just go to the store after this."

Well, if the End of the World came, I wouldn't have to go to my job (yes!), and I could spend a lot more time on my tomatoes in the Summer (YES!!), but eventually I would run out of lids... THE LIDS!!! They're not reusable (at least not indefinitely so... I do admit to reusing them once if the still look good and I've never lost a seal...).

So what do you do? Can your rejuvenate lids with wax? Would you use the reusable taddler lids? How many seasons do they have in them? I imagine they would crack eventually. Perhaps canning is just a lost technology in the Next World. Thoughts?

Have just started using Tattler lids so my experience is limited with them. I do dehydrate quite a bit. I even used strawberries in my oatmeal this morning. Currently use a large dehydrator from Cabela's but will eventually complete a solar powered one.

I have an irrational fear of canning, at least of ME doing it. The last few times I tried canning some things, I screwed up half of it- lids loose- too much air, etc.

Anymore for long term storage I dehydrate.

In such a scenario, lids would be a finite resource. Getting the most out of what remained would be the rule of thumb. Using the lids of quarts would be better than using them on pints. Using them on expensive crops, such as meat, would be better than inexpensive crops, such as spinach. When new lids are not available, risking reuse on a precious commodity would not be worth it to some. The fall back for food preservation would be pickling, smoking, and dehydration. Employing used lids for storing dried goods is an option, and one which reuses the lids until they corrode to unsatisfactory condition. An airtight seal is not required, just keep the bugs out. As the lid supply dwindles, the ability to produce food continually and with minimal effort would be a primary concern. Canning can offer a bridge for storage solutions while you make the transition to complete self sufficiency and dehydrated food preservation. If maintaining the ability to preserve foods by canning is something you depend on, then acquiring and storing a large number of lids while they are cheap would be advisable.

An apocalypse scenario would be a greater shock to those who have not internalized homesteading skills and do not have a self sufficient lifestyle.

We bought a LOT of tattlers when they had some REALLY good deals when they were just getting back into the market. We will run out of jars and rings first. Jars break, and they take a lot of space to store. Rings are not made well and corrode very easily these days. I really want a source for better rings, either stainless or at least better plating.

I don't have a real root cellar and would really like one. My other half has asked for me to build her a new studio and one of the things she suggested is to build a root cellar underneath it. Thaw baby thaw I'm ready.

Tattler lids pretty much have that problem solved.

I have LOTS of them, and use them exclusively. They're the real deal. They don't crack, and given reasonable proper care they are pretty much indefinitely reusable. The weakest link in the chain is the rubber rings (which will dry out EVENTUALLY), but those can be purchased on their own, and there are ways to store them that would extend their shelf life.

With proper care your rings should last a long, long time, and you only really need as many as you can process at one time (remove them after cooling).

I actually have a collection of the very old-style glass lids that are designed to work similarly to the Tattlers. However, I haven't had a chance to experiment with them yet (I need a low-value surplus crop to try that on), and I've heard they are a lot more finicky than even Tattler lids. I found the glass lids at garage sales and in Granny's basement; I think you need a taller ring to use them with, though, and I have a few, but I'm not sure if they make them anymore.

How many jars to can in a year? Will that increase or decrease in the future, family getting bigger or smaller? How many more years will you can in your life? Add that all up and buy in bulk. They are small and store dang near forever.

More sauerkraut / kimchi style of preserving. That is more low tech.

Angelika Maier wrote:More sauerkraut / kimchi style of preserving. That is more low tech.

Fermentation is rad, but having the jars and lids gives you options. It's relatively easy to vacuum-can dried foods in mason jars, making them essentially pest-proof for longer-term storage. That ability alone is worth the price of admission, IMHO.

I'll be giving those Tattler's a try.

dehydrate the tomatoes

chrissy bauman wrote:dehydrate the tomatoes

Yes, dried tomatoes are delicious. I've been canning less and dehydrating more...shiitakes, green beans, fruit. Working towards a solar dryer. I do intend to get some Tattler lids though as I have lots of canning jars and haven't given it up completely. Would everyone be canning on wood fires...I find canning uses a lot of energy. I cook on gas during canning season now but used to cook and can year round on a wood cookstove...that's a pretty hot job summertime though.

Judith Browning wrote:

chrissy bauman wrote:dehydrate the tomatoes

Would everyone be canning on wood fires...I find canning uses a lot of energy. I cook on gas during canning season now but used to cook and can year round on a wood cookstove...that's a pretty hot job summertime though.

I think that's why there were summer kitchens. If I had to cook with wood year round, I would definitely be looking into a summer kitchen.

Hi, Jess, we carried a small wood cook stove outside during the summer for years but 100 degree plus days are just hot no matter where you are...even early morning or late evening, but I did it for a long time. With the long hot and dry summers we have been having here i think solar dehydration is the way to go...it is calling to me...quit sweating over the fire....

I am going to build a rocket stove (not mass heater) for summer canning.

Judith Browning wrote:Hi, Jess, we carried a small wood cook stove outside during the summer for years but 100 degree plus days are just hot no matter where you are...even early morning or late evening, but I did it for a long time. With the long hot and dry summers we have been having here i think solar dehydration is the way to go...it is calling to me...quit sweating over the fire....

Yeah, I don't blame you. We do fairly minimal canning here; we freeze a lot of things because we like the consistency better, and rely heavily on the root cellar for a lot of our storage also. We're mostly into jams, which I can time for fairly early (strawberries and rhubarb) or late (raspberries and blueberries), and avoid the worst of the summer heat. Post apocalypse, I think we'd be relying even more heavily on the root cellar and dried goods like beans and grain, with the occasional canned thing like jam or preserves as a treat or flavoring (like in jam cookies, or pickles, or salsa), rather than trying to maintain the exact same diet as we have right now (though we've been transitioning to a much more local and seasonal diet over the years, too, so it wouldn't be that big a stretch anymore). Dehydrating is definitely more appropriate in the summer heat, that's for sure!

R Scott wrote:Rings are not made well and corrode very easily these days.  I really want a source for better rings, either stainless or at least better plating.  

I just happened to see these heavy stainless steel rings on Amazon.  Eye-wateringly expensive, but in the mode of "buy once, never buy again" they may pencil out regardless.  

In Australia our main type of canning jars (Fowlers) has the option of almost-indestructible stainless steel lids. This preserving system consists of rubber rings (which they say are one-use-only, but everyone I talk to just reuses them over and over), the rings go onto an indent at the top of the jar, the lids go over the rings, and then a clip secures it in place while it gets sealed.

This is what they look like:


For Weck and Fido jars, the only things that need replacing are the rubber rings, and I've reused these on Fido jars many times.

I don't think pressure canning can be done with Fowlers, Weck or Fido, but Nourishing Days posted a while ago about reusable lids for mason jars, so they might be a good option for pressure canning: https://www.nourishingdays.com/2019/09/processing-meat-birds-and-canning-with-reusable-lids/

I still don't rely on canning much, I use it mainly for things that are tasty additions to food, rather than as a calorie-storage technique. I've never pressure canned before, but sometimes I think it would be good to have that option for broth and meat.

As far as rings go, I'm not too concerned about the corrosion. Long as they're washed then baked in the oven at around 200 degrees to burn off water in the cracks a towel will never reach they should last quite awhile. Another reason is I reuse the same 20 rings or so over and over. I'll use them till I deem them unfit for service. Then just grab 20 more from my 5 gallon bucket full of new rings saved from new jars. I just gave a garbage bag full to my neighbor! Lol As you may have guessed, I don't leave the rings on the jars of canned goods.

As far as new lids go, I have heard they are good for 5 years in storage before the gum starts to dry out. Is it true? I don't know... But it would be fairly inexpensive to put away in mylar bags with an o2 absorber. Maybe the lack of oxygen will preserver the gummy material.

I have bought some Walmart brands lids and they have changed. They're not like they used to be as far as I can tell and look and feel exactly like a ball jar branded lid. I have used them without issue (Thus far, I just started using them). They're much cheaper in price than brand name  lids and are even made in the USA.

As far as a canner goes, spend the extra dough on an All American Canner. There's no gasket to wear out. But God help you if you ever severely ding the sealing surface! Lol Buy extra rubber safety plugs and put them away where they're not exposed to oxygen for long term storage. I had the big model, like a moron I sold it. Got a presto for now till financial times brighten up a bit to repurchase an All American. I will however still order extra seals and rubber safety plugs for the presto.

Edit: I would just buy a lot of lids when on sale and store them like I mentioned above. Walmart appears to have them in stock year around.

I can be a bit of a "rebel" with my canning; particularly when I'm the only one who will be eating the canned goods, so I save all of the lids & rings to reuse until they no longer work. This has allowed me to build up a stockpile of extras over the years.
When the SHTF, I will probably become a casualty of my medical issues; but I would figure out something to sustain me until then. When I run out of lids, I suspect I would be making meat into jerky and drying beans for protein. Grains and other carbs are usually dryable. I raise potbellies, so a source of fat would probably be lard. Much of the other vitamins/minerals would need to be foraged/grown seasonally. A big barrier would be that I still haven't learned what vitamins/minerals that a lot of plants provide. Plus my lack of knowledge and skills with surviving off grid. Until I learn more, the worn out canning lids would likely be the least of my problems

I raise potbellies, so a source of fat would probably be lard.

 fat is also an excellent preservative, if kept cool and free of oxygen.  I'm not sure how pork would do.   However, the indigenous population on the north coast would store all kinds of foods in sealed wooden boxes filled with eulachon grease, or water with eulachon grease on top.  The grease also helped with the digestion of certain astringent roots.  Other fish oils were also eaten locally, but not traded extensively.  The grease was considered a much sought after delicacy, and was traded extensively from the coast and coastal rivers, in large chests packed by men over trails to Inland tribes, rare meats such as Elk and Moose, and Caribou were traded back down to the coast.  In addition to storing in grease, food was dried, smoked, fermented, or cellared in pits.  The diet was considerably more seasonal than the modern diet, and often involved many migrating species, such as Salmon, Eulachon, or Elk, so preserving the meat was also super important for long term survival.  

Much of the other vitamins/minerals would need to be foraged/grown seasonally. A big barrier would be that I still haven't learned what vitamins/minerals that a lot of plants provide. Plus my lack of knowledge and skills with surviving off grid.

Berries, richly coloured vegetables, and greens should probably get you what you need.  Remember that in a survival situation, you will learn quickly that the water you boil potatoes in is great for tomorrow's pancakes (with vitamin loss only from the cooking),  and that purple potatoes are bound to have a slightly different vitamin and mineral profile from red ones, pink ones, or yellow ones.  Variety is the spice of life, literally.  You will intuitively discover thousands of other tricks to ensure that you get the most food value out of every morsel that is put in front of you.  Instead of an occasional salad and steamed meal of greens during the summer, you will eat them every day until the plants freeze, and you will have some growing inside to tide you over that you planted in August and are growing or somewhat dormant through the winter, but will pick up before spring allows gardening to continue outdoors.

I knew a woman that strung Christmas lights between mason jars using only the jars and the rings. She had a sizable business selling those and a T-shirt in a jar. When she was making the light/jar strands, She would just throw the lids in a jumbo rubbermaid bin. She had no use for them and me being somewhat of a prepper, I SAW GOLD !!! She let me have the whole bin. I swear there's at least 5000 in there all brand new small mouth lids. The tub weighs a ton, but it's worth it's weight in gold!

my grandmother, having been a farmers wife though the depression,  put up all sorts of stuff and would pour about 1/2" of hot wax to seal jars, when you open jar you save wax boil it, skim out the chaff and reuse it

I bought the most recent edition of So Easy to Preserve from The University of Georgia. I've never preserved anything before, and I was told that this book is a great place to start learning. :)

Silver coins, salt & home made vinegar will go a long way in helping to store goods.
Citrus can add protection also, if you have a large green house to raise the dwarf citrus trees or the vegetables you would other wise can.
Dehydrated foods are not the best but it is better than nothing, Freeze dry is a waste of time unless you store it before the fall.
Freeze dry has two draw backs, 1) it only last 30 years, 2) it cost alot, up front $2000. to $6000. dollars + run time electiricity.
For $2000. to $6000. you can store a lot of mason/bell jars & lids.
Dry goods & cured meats kelpt thousands of people alive in cold bitter winter.
First a greenhouse, then a root celar & a smokehouse.
If you have a light winter you can grow winter vegetables, but some believe (China) that it will get colder in the next 15-20 years.

You want ideas? Go back to the Colonial Period of America. Folks back then did not have canning as a source of preservation.

* Smoking, especially fish, was quite common.
* Salting, both meat and fish was a staple. A variation of the period is what has developed into American bacon today, only it was hard as a rock and salty as all get out.
* Dehydration of course.
* Brining back then was not just for pickles and the like. Meat was also preserved by this method.
* Refrigeration. Those in the North would have a standing ice house, cut ice slabs out of ponds, kept their meats in them. That practice survived well into the 1920's. My relatives are Russian. One of the unique features of those ole Khrushchev blocks is the kitchen had an opening about 4x10. That was covered over by a window on top and a window settee/cupboard below. In the Winters the cupboard served as your root cellar.  

Indoor cooking was for the poor. If you were of the gentry, the kitchen was in a separate building from the main house. The issue of not wanting to burn down your home was paramount. My grandmother had an porch kitchen. In the Florida summers that is all she used. AC was rare in her times. Tour historical buildings in the South and the porch kitchen was quite common.

I highly recommend the Townsends channel on YouTube.  https://www.youtube.com/user/jastownsendandson   The content is informative and well produced. The host is quite charming. I have never been disappointed by the time spent watching one of their videos.

Kate Downham wrote:In Australia our main type of canning jars (Fowlers) has the option of almost-indestructible stainless steel lids.

Kate, I was curious and seached for Fowlers jars. I was shocked at the prices! I hope they are nearly indestructible, as I would hate to lose one.

HEY ALL:  Something missed on this forum is "How to keep the jars on the shelves during that HUGE Earthquake" and believe me that is important.
One would be putting up a retaining board high enough to keep the jars on-shelf, but low enough to be able to pull the jars.

I went overboard and bought a bunch of the JAR-BOX items mostly for my pint jars, but a few for quarts. These are very sturdy clam shell halves where jars rest in one half and the other is slipped over the top and Tie-Wrapped shut. I actually did have one of these slip out of hand and dropped on cement. One corner of the Jar-Box fractured, with a piece chipping out of the corner, but did not break the jar even in the fractured corner, so 12 pint jars of goodies were saved!

bruce Fine wrote:my grandmother, having been a farmers wife though the depression,  put up all sorts of stuff and would pour about 1/2" of hot wax to seal jars, when you open jar you save wax boil it, skim out the chaff and reuse it

Stocking up I,II, & III are great also.

Michael Bunker has several off-grid food preservation videos on his YouTube channel, including canning meat:  https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLltRK-WVtsOjdZItd8uKBtHR3N425RZ25

john mcginnis wrote:

Kate Downham wrote:In Australia our main type of canning jars (Fowlers) has the option of almost-indestructible stainless steel lids.

Kate, I was curious and seached for Fowlers jars. I was shocked at the prices! I hope they are nearly indestructible, as I would hate to lose one.

It's easy to find them second hand in Australia. It was the main canning jar here for many decades so there's often older people with lots of stories who have jars they want to rehome.

The jars are very thick compared to Ball jars.

Jesse Glessner wrote:HEY ALL:  Something missed on this forum is "How to keep the jars on the shelves during that HUGE Earthquake" and believe me that is important.
One would be putting up a retaining board high enough to keep the jars on-shelf, but low enough to be able to pull the jars...

Those in Quake Country might find some useful inspirations on "containment" and efficient simple stabilized shelf systems by googling and browsing images of marine cabinetry. And, if you're anywhere near a coastal area, marine salvage resale places often have some very clever stuff at a reasonable price. The marine salvage yard can also be a good source for ideas and re-useable "stuff" for people who are managing life in a small footprint. Yacht kitchens, bathrooms, coolers and storage cabinetry often offer many transferrable ideas... from the boat's cabin to your cabin. Purchased new, boat gear is outrageously pricey but these interior cabin items often outlive a boat's hull and then can be found on the cheap (with a bit of luck, persistence, and good timing that is). It also pays to get to know the local salvage yard people, who may give you heads-up when something that fits your needs is brought in. Most modern sailboats are designed to handle a complete rollover. This factors in to the thoughtfully designed galley, as free-flying can goods belowdeck can be even more lethal than the storm raging abovedeck. Which also reminds me, if you have a situation of really frequent quakes, it might be an interesting project to look into how to make a gimble inexpensively... then gimble your shelves, which makes them self-adjusting/self-leveling. There are a lot of basic old-tech low-tech adaptations that were part of belowdeck living on the Great Ships too, as evidenced in things like the captain's table that levels itself, berth-beds and hammocks that all self adjust to tossing seas too.

Even stored lids don't last forever the ruber breaks down over time.  While I do can and will continue to do so . other methods would be ones best bet if supplies are no longer avaliable  drying, fermentaion, smoking,  would   probably be the best . Country cured ham sounds really good right now.   Just have to make sure to have ennough salt and spices saved up.   And it should be salt without idodine in it.  I get khosher and sea salt in large amounts when I can   saving spices now is good and especially saving seeds.  I am also atttempting to grow spices indoors that are not  able to take the cold where I live,  like vanilla and cloves

I would also love a freeze drier.  I know if the power is down then I wouldn't be able to use it ... but wondering how big  a solar setup I would need to run one.  Even though solar will not last forever either.  Would love to live where I had a fast stream close enough to have some kind of water turbine to produce power. Wouldn't want to dam up the whole thing but I know I have seen Turbines you can just lower into the side of a fast moving stream that are suppose  to work great.  I think that would be a better long term solution to power or a windmill. Not one of the jumbo ones  but more like they used to have on farms.  We live on a farm that had one and I love going around it and watching how it worked. IF I ever get a place of my own I want to try and have something like this.  ..... OF course you don't need electricity to can or even gas.  It can be done on over a fire or wood stove you jut have to watch it very carefully because you don't want it to hot but mostly don't want the pressure to fall on a pressure caner you have to maintain a certain pressure or your timing must start all over again and that can cause the food to get mushy    MY grandmother canned over a coal stove so that is about the same in having to watch it constantly. ... I hated all the coal dust everywhere. And I do mean everywhere.  As soon as you would take a shower you would get covered by the dust within a few minutes. But it was fun to watch her cook on that old stove.  

Lyda Eagle wrote:I would also love a freeze drier.  I know if the power is down then I wouldn't be able to use it ... but wondering how big  a solar setup I would need to run one.  Even though solar will not last forever either.  Would love to live where I had a fast stream close enough to have some kind of water turbine to produce power. Wouldn't want to dam up the whole thing but I know I have seen Turbines you can just lower into the side of a fast moving stream that are suppose  to work great.  I think that would be a better long term solution to power or a windmill. Not one of the jumbo ones  but more like they used to have on farms.  We live on a farm that had one and I love going around it and watching how it worked. IF I ever get a place of my own I want to try and have something like this.  ..... OF course you don't need electricity to can or even gas.  It can be done on over a fire or wood stove you jut have to watch it very carefully because you don't want it to hot but mostly don't want the pressure to fall on a pressure caner you have to maintain a certain pressure or your timing must start all over again and that can cause the food to get mushy    MY grandmother canned over a coal stove so that is about the same in having to watch it constantly. ... I hated all the coal dust everywhere. And I do mean everywhere.  As soon as you would take a shower you would get covered by the dust within a few minutes. But it was fun to watch her cook on that old stove.  

My grandmother was born Uniontown PA. They hung their laundry in the basement to dry. Doing it outside, the clothing would be dirter than when they first washed it. Coal country was a tough place to live back then.

Cost $2500.00-$4000.00 at harvest right.
DETAILS:WHAT'S INCLUDED:RESOURCES:
Features
Freeze dry 2,500 pounds of fresh food per year (12-16 pounds per batch).
In a year's time, you can freeze dry 546 gallons of food.

Dimensions
Overall product dimensions: 20.25″ W x 23.75″ D x 30.75″ H
Perfect for counter top, cart, or table.
5 trays (9″ W x 20.5″ x 0.75″ H)
138 lbs.

There is also a detachable vacuum pump that sits outside the freeze dryer.
Oil Pump: 35 lbs

Power
110 volt (NEMA 5-20) outlet. A dedicated 20 amp circuit is required.

Shipping Info
The large freeze dryer ships in one package with a total weight of 253 lbs (274 lbs for Stainless Steel). Item will be delivered to physical addresses, no PO boxes, they just don’t fit. One Freeze Dryer Package: 29″W x 38″D x 48″H

Maintenance
Simply filter and replace oil (unless you upgraded to an oil free pump). It just takes a couple of minutes.


Warranty
Three year limited warranty.
https://harvestright.com/home-freeze-dryers/

So 110 volts, this unit said up tp 25 years, 2500 pounds a year.

Sales, stock up when cheap.  Bought a bunch of lids/rings when a local store was going out of business.  Have some tatlers but not enough experience with them yet.

Can, dehydrate, lacto ferment, smoke, cure and hope ;-)

Lyda Eagle wrote:...   Just have to make sure to have ennough salt and spices saved up.   And it should be salt without idodine in it.  I get khosher and sea salt in large amounts when I can   saving spices now is good and especially saving seeds.  I am also atttempting to grow spices indoors that are not  able to take the cold where I live,  like vanilla and cloves

Two sources of salt in the US. From the sea, and several underground salt domes.


If you buy Morton table salt is comes from this place (Bahamas salt pans) -- https://www.qwant.com/?q=bahamas%20morton%20salt%20&t=images. Why should that be of interest? Its ALL sea salt! So essentially any non-iodine Morton table salt IS sea salt. Save your pennies and pass on the sea salt label and just buy the blue box product instead.

Here is a Morton salt mine -- https://www.qwant.com/?q=morton%20salt%20mine&t=images . Most uses for mined salt is industrial, agricultural, etc. Most mined salt to be used as a table salt has a price penalty. It has to be ground to powder whereas the sea salt is already in a fine granular state.