maximizing benefit of the PIE system

x = all the fruit (atf) foraging garcinia latissima in the wild
y = florida natural farming (fnf) buying g latissima seeds for $50/each

as far as i know, atf didn't save any of the seeds.  would he have done so if he knew that they were worth $50 each?  maybe.  fact is, he couldn't make the most informed decision without knowing the true value of the seeds.  

imagine on each seed there had been 15 pie symbols.  this would have been useful.  but still, then atf would have had to calculate the exchange rate between pie and euros.  so it would have been even more useful if each seed had the actual monetary amount in euros on it.  

when i lived in china it took an embarrassingly long time before i learned the currency equivalent to dollars.  i'm having the same difficulty here with the pies.  what does it translate to in dollars?  math.  my suggestion is to replace the pie symbols with actual dollar amounts.  

i'm sure that some, maybe most, of you will disagree with my suggestion.  then what?  tug of war to decide?  bring it on.  unfortunately it isn't very practical.  

so rather than deciding with muscles, let's decide with money.  let's have a fundraiser for this site.  whichever side donates more, wins.  

anyone care to predict how much each side will donate?  good luck.  if correctly guessing the size of each side's benefit was so easy then markets would be useless.  

So, a slice of Permies PIE costs $3 USD.

Are you suggesting that instead of counting slices of PIE, we count and display the dollars donated instead?

If it were just $ it wouldn't mean anything to me, but when I get Pie given to me it has a value more than dollars, since it means that someone really appreciated something I did or posted.

It is also important since it goes towards funding the servers for Permies which runs at a loss.



I love Pie!

Jeremy VanGelder wrote:So, a slice of Permies PIE costs $3 USD.

Are you suggesting that instead of counting slices of PIE, we count and display the dollars donated instead?

correct.  when i was a visitor to this forum the pie symbols held no significance to me.  everybody understands dollar amounts though.  

right now is there a way to see which posts and/or threads have received the most pie slices?  ideally, this should be the default sorting on the homepage, with the easy option to sort by date.  members decide with their donations which content is the most valuable, and the most valuable content should be the 1st thing that visitors see on the homepage.  

To me, the benefits that folks get from buying PIE is more valuable the the piece of PIE itself:

Access to the secret pie forum
Get free stuff that is currently in the pie forum, stuff that is normally not free. Get discounts from businesses that love PIE people.
No ads
Make your thread stand out
Smoother navigation
More emphasis
Customize everything
Even more privileges

https://permies.com/forums/pie/list#perks

Nancy Reading wrote:If it were just $ it wouldn't mean anything to me, but when I get Pie given to me it has a value more than dollars, since it means that someone really appreciated something I did or posted.

It is also important since it goes towards funding the servers for Permies which runs at a loss.

I love Pie!

pie is literally my favorite dessert, specifically tart berry pie with a flaky golden crust.  in this case though i'm not buying a real pie.  when i buy pie here i'm simply making a sacrifice for the community.  problem is, nobody outside this community sees a pie symbol and makes the connection to sacrifice.  so the pie symbol is actually counterproductive.  it clouds rather than clarifies.  ideally, everyone should know, at a glance, what a thread and/or post is worth to the community.  just like everyone should know, at a glance, what any given seed is worth.  we all need this information in order to make informed decisions.  

carlos cruz wrote: ideally, everyone should know, at a glance, what a thread and/or post is worth to the community.  just like everyone should know, at a glance, what any given seed is worth.  we all need this information in order to make informed decisions.  

Hmm, I get what you're saying. The closest we've got at the moment is the 'best ever' and 'best this year' threads which are visible on the individual forums (not across the whole of Permies). I gather these take into account various measures, not just Pie, but apples and number of posts in the thread too.

Anne Miller wrote:To me, the benefits that folks get from buying PIE is more valuable the the piece of PIE itself:

Access to the secret pie forum
Get free stuff that is currently in the pie forum, stuff that is normally not free. Get discounts from businesses that love PIE people.
No ads
Make your thread stand out
Smoother navigation
More emphasis
Customize everything
Even more privileges

https://permies.com/forums/pie/list#perks

i'm not suggesting that perks be curtailed.  i'm simply suggesting that, where appropriate, the pie symbol be replaced with a dollar amount.  i'm also suggesting that this decision should be made via donations.  every significant group decision should be a fundraiser.  

should visitors see ads?  personally, i'd donate for no.  nobody likes ads.  

should there be a secret forum for supporters?  i'd also donate for no.  if somebody posted something really valuable in there, it would suck that the rest of the community couldn't see it.  

the donations from the group decisions would add up.  in theory.  maybe most people don't care enough one way or the other to donate much.  in any case, it would be informative to know how much the community cares about all the different group decisions.  the alternative is not knowing how much the community cares about any given topic.  i can't imagine this being a good thing.  

Nancy Reading wrote:

carlos cruz wrote: ideally, everyone should know, at a glance, what a thread and/or post is worth to the community.  just like everyone should know, at a glance, what any given seed is worth.  we all need this information in order to make informed decisions.  

Hmm, I get what you're saying. The closest we've got at the moment is the 'best ever' and 'best this year' threads which are visible on the individual forums (not across the whole of Permies). I gather these take into account various measures, not just Pie, but apples and number of posts in the thread too.

i'm trying to figure out how to say this as delicately as possible.  at a glance, it really doesn't seem like what floated to the top is the cream.  the top content is nice, but not very substantial.  so i'm guessing that not much weight was given to the pie in the rankings.  

pretty much the entire internet is dominated by fluff.  this isn't a surprise given that most content is ranked by words (thumbs up) rather than by actions (donations).  in this tiny corner of the internet, on the other hand, there's the wonderful opportunity to donate for the most valuable content, but doing so doesn't have much, or any, influence on the rankings?  

ideally, these should be the 3 main sorting options...

date
words (thumbs up, likes, so on)
actions (donations) - default

I have a powerful, visceral negative reaction to this suggestion. I’m happy to buy PIE because servers eat dollars but I can’t help but wonder how many people would walk away over that.

Paul is an evil dictator and he likes the way that threads are currently ranked in the "Best of" lists. So that is very unlikely to change.

With that said, you could set up a "PIE poll" for fun. You could create two posts, such as "I think Oranges are the Best Fruit" and "I think Apples are the Best Fruit." Then people could vote for their favorite fruit by giving pie to the appropriate post. That could be a fun fundraiser.

Another way to do what you seem to want to do would be to watch one of Paul's livestreams on Youtube and donate money whenever he says something that you agree with.

I don’t particularly like that people can see how many kickstarters I’ve supported.

I absolutely don’t want to see how much money people have given or for people to see how much I have given.

Sorry but right now I can’t fully articulate why this makes me feel so uncomfortable. Something to do with financial rewards for posts, embarresing people who don’t have the financial capacity of others and also people with financial capacity buying posts.

Over the history of permies.com,  we've found that the readership,  while amazingly supportive,  does not respond well to the dollar sign.

However,  they do respond well to thread boost.  https://permies.com/wiki/61482/Thread-Boost-feature

Which,  if I understand you correctly is a more polished version of the suggestion.

James Alun wrote:I don’t particularly like that people can see how many kickstarters I’ve supported.

.

Edit Profile,  under pie.  Should be able to turn it off there.

https://permies.com/wiki/0/77535/permies-affiliate-program

Is another wonderful way to support permies.com.   most digital market items have the affiliate set to 40% or more.

Earn money while infecting brains with permaculture.

r ranson wrote:

James Alun wrote:I don’t particularly like that people can see how many kickstarters I’ve supported.

.

Edit Profile,  under pie.  Should be able to turn it off there.

I can (and have) remove the pie on my post but couldn’t see an option for the kickstarters.

It’s no biggie but thank you.

James Alun wrote:

r ranson wrote:

James Alun wrote:I don’t particularly like that people can see how many kickstarters I’ve supported.

.

Edit Profile,  under pie.  Should be able to turn it off there.

I can (and have) remove the pie on my post but couldn’t see an option for the kickstarters.

It’s no biggie but thank you.

Weird.   I cannot find it now either,  but I'm sure I saw it 4 hours ago.

Christopher Weeks wrote:I have a powerful, visceral negative reaction to this suggestion. I’m happy to buy PIE because servers eat dollars but I can’t help but wonder how many people would walk away over that.

let me try to remember a social experiment which might be relevant.  it involved motorists with flat tires and good samaritans.  one group of motorists offered the samaritans a candy bar in exchange for helping to change the tire.  the second group, the control group, offered the samaritans nothing.  a third group offered the samaritans like a dollar.  

the third group had the smallest percentage of samaritans agree to change the tire.  but why?  basically, in the other two groups, the samaritans could pretend that their help was worth a lot to the motorist.  this was not the case with the third group.  

ignorance is bliss?  nope.  it might seem nice and considerate to give kids a bunch of gold stars for their drawings.  fact is though, not everybody should be an artist.  encouraging a non-artist down an artistic path is the opposite of helpful.
nobody benefits from being encouraged down the wrong path.  

i suppose there are cases when feedback shouldn't be honest and accurate.  forum posts isn't one of them.  

Jeremy VanGelder wrote:Paul is an evil dictator and he likes the way that threads are currently ranked in the "Best of" lists. So that is very unlikely to change.

let's say that we used donations to measure the will of the people...

change: $23,555
don't change: $1,122

would it change in this case?  

Jeremy VanGelder wrote:With that said, you could set up a "PIE poll" for fun. You could create two posts, such as "I think Oranges are the Best Fruit" and "I think Apples are the Best Fruit." Then people could vote for their favorite fruit by giving pie to the appropriate post. That could be a fun fundraiser.

donate to decide which staff member has to sing and dance for at least a minute sounds like a funner fundraiser.  i'm not opposed to fun.  but if we're going to figure out the will of the people, we might as well do so for something more consequential.  

Jeremy VanGelder wrote:Another way to do what you seem to want to do would be to watch one of Paul's livestreams on Youtube and donate money whenever he says something that you agree with.

in an email he wrote... "Youtube has a feature where if you give them monies, they will show the video to gobs of people. If I can raise $5000 that will result in about a half million views. However much I get, I will put directly into this and attempt to change the world!"

everybody wants their content to get more attention.  on here, just below, it said something about being able to give 2 flags for a post to get more attention.  that's what it means?  when i saw the flags by the thread titles i thought it meant how many times the thread has been flagged for something inappropriate.  the homemade cheese thread had lots of flags.  i figured that the thread poster had suggested something highly unhygienic that could get people sick.  i didn't read the thread.  

in addition to flags, apples can also get a thread more noticed?  flags, apples, and pies, oh my.  i doubt that these were all paul's ideas.  most likely someone suggested them, and the suggestions got lots of thumbs up, which meant the ideas were good and useful.  i'm skeptical.

here's why i'm skeptical.  here's another reason why i'm skeptical.  a vote costs nothing, which is why it shouldn't be given much, if any, weight.  

paul wants to help solve the biggest problem in the world?  he doesn't need to look any further than his own website.  

r ranson wrote:Over the history of permies.com,  we've found that the readership,  while amazingly supportive,  does not respond well to the dollar sign.

However,  they do respond well to thread boost.  https://permies.com/wiki/61482/Thread-Boost-feature

Which,  if I understand you correctly is a more polished version of the suggestion.

Next year will be permies 20th anniversary.

At the end of the day, things are done at Permies in the background a particular way usually because of an accumulation of years of experience gathered by senior staff and Paul. This sometimes can be the way time is dedicated to different programming objectives or how to deal with certain topics/subjects.

I don't believe you will find much will change in short time, but what is in existence is kept around because it has shown to work.

in retrospect, i kinda messed up.  replacing the pie symbols with dollars is a small fish to fry.  a much bigger fish to fry is not being able to sort by pies.  for example...

Natural Small Batch Cheesemaking by Kate Downham
What is the point of Nitrogen fixing trees without Inoculant?

the 1st has 2 pies.  the 2nd used to have no pies, but i just gave it 3 pies.  i remembered that it's how i found this forum.  

if we could sort threads by pies then...

3 pies - What is the point of Nitrogen fixing trees without Inoculant?
2 pies - Natural Small Batch Cheesemaking by Kate Downham

naturally the higher threads would get more attention than the lower threads.  so if you wanted cheesemaking to get more attention, you'd give it more pies...

4 pies - Natural Small Batch Cheesemaking by Kate Downham
3 pies - What is the point of Nitrogen fixing trees without Inoculant?

we'd go back and forth spending money (supporting this forum) until the optimal order was achieved (pareto optimal).  

right now there is a thread that has received the most pies.  but i can't easily find this thread.  i can't find the most valuable thread in the forum.  that is an obvious problem right?  

this forum is 99% of the way to solving the biggest problem in the world.  as it stands, we can all pie threads.  only one more step is needed, and it's very small.  in the database there's a table with a column that keeps track of how many pies each thread has received.  write up a bit of simple sql... "select * from threads, order by pie" and voila!  we've solved the biggest problem in the world!  soon we'd be able to find the most valuable video on youtube.  we'd be able to find the most valuable scholarly paper.  no more war, cancer, global warming, world hunger or death.  all thanks to a little bit of sql.  

to be clear, the biggest problem in the world is people not understanding that there is only one way to optimally order things.  the consequence is an incredible amount of disorder/destruction, which seriously harms us all.  

maybe i'm wrong, but it's easy enough to find out.  if the consensus is that the current "best ever" threads are way more valuable and important and useful than the top pie threads, then no harm no foul.  we would all learn an important lesson.  markets (everybody spending their own money on the things important to them) really aren't the best way to prioritize (order) things.  in any case, this is something we should all figure out sooner rather than later.  

And, what of the great posts and threads that simply got missed? Maybe the person tossing Apples had run out, and/or had no money with which to purchase PIE, or was sick or offline and simply didn't see it. There are thousands of posts here, daily, and only so many people to go around, to give apples, thumbs, and PIE. A lack of these things doesn't mean a thread has little or no value, it just means the right people(the ones that probably need it most) simply haven't seen it - yet. I've often found incredible gems, with few posts, and few, if any of the rewards, that in a mere handful or less of posts, has brought more knowledge and been more helpful than half a dozen other threads that were substantially longer and wordier.

Often, the information we are in need of, and are looking for is something that seems, to the rest of the world, to be irrelevant or obscure. I'd hate for those amazing threads and posts- the very ones I often need most - to become buried and hidden under the things that someone else thought was important, but have no relevance for me, when I need the ones on the path less traveled.

I happen to love our system, as it is, thanks.

carla burke, i'm not sure that i follow.  let's take my thread for example...

willow ditch san fernando valley

i've created threads in quite a few forums, but i can't remember the last time that nobody has replied to one of my threads.  my thread here has a complete lack of engagement except for a few thumbs up.  this is your current beloved system.  

are you suggesting that being able to sort threads by pies would make it even less likely that others would see and reply to my thread?  how would that be possible?  

if we could sort threads by pies then we'd see the topics that members most highly value.  cheese turns out to be the #1 most valued topic?  heh.  errrr, i do like cheese, but not enough to want to seriously discuss it or anything.  cheese has room for improvement of course, but i don't know where.  so do i stick around and try to convert cheese lovers to food forest lovers?  or do i seek greener pastures?  

what kinda people do you want to stick around?  right now you have the option to pie their threads, which is incredibly cool.  but unfortunately we can't currently see the big picture.  we can't see the forest for the trees.  we can't see the topics that the community truly cares about the most.  this information can't beneficially influence us when we're deciding what to write about.  in economic terms, when the demand is unknown, the supply is going to be sorely lacking.  perhaps my thread is a perfect example.  

i joined this forum largely based on a thread created 5 years ago.  since then, interest in nitrogen fixation has waned, while interest in cheese has waxed?  how was i supposed to know?  i would have known if it had been possible to sort threads by pies.  

carlos cruz wrote:i've created threads in quite a few forums, but i can't remember the last time that nobody has replied to one of my threads.  my thread here has a complete lack of engagement except for a few thumbs up.  this is your current beloved system.  

You have created precisely TWO threads, one of them being this one where you seem to want to waltz in and tell us we're doing it all wrong. And most of your posts have been in this thread.

I'd rather spend time doing something actively useful than arguing about pies and dollars.

In case you don't realize,  this week cheese is important because Kate is doing a giveaway of her new cheese book. People are vying to win one. If cheese borse you, don't worry much. Once the promotion is finished, cheese talk will fade to an occasional topic.

Stick around for a while. You may like us.

r ranson wrote:

Weird.   I cannot find it now either,  but I'm sure I saw it 4 hours ago.

Found it! It’s in the privacy settings, just above pie settings.

Thank you!

carlos cruz wrote: my thread here has a complete lack of engagement except for a few thumbs up.  this is your current beloved system.  

I think the lack of engagement is more down to things like the title you chose - willow ditch san fernando valley

It doesn't grab people's attention. I have zero idea where the San Fernando valley is, and a willow ditch doesn't sound very interesting.

But it seems what you are actually doing with the ditch is converting it to a food forest. How about changing the title to something like 'converting a willow ditch in the san fernando valley to a food forest'. If you ask questions in the thread, 'How am I doing?', 'What would you do differently?', 'Are these the best choices of trees to plant?', 'What other trees might work here?' you will likely encourage people to respond.

Throwing pie at a thread won't make people engage.

Touching people's souls and giving them little openings to share their own gems of wisdom is far more likely to get them opening up.

I think one of the biggest inaccuracies I'm seeing in this thread is that a POST gets pie. Posts don't get pie, people get pie. Posts can get thumbs up. Posts can get apples, which can translate into pie (20/1?), but don't get pie itself. Posts can get boosted. People can't. [EDIT: Posts do get pie, sorry about that!]

A few dynamics of using $ instead of Pie?

* More people would try to game the system
*It would create a "majority rule" mentality and the majority is often wrong. This causes inequality for worthy topics.
*It encourages "the rich rule." Only those with $ have a real say. There are non-monetary ways to earn pie, which flattens the landscape, making decision-making more equal.
*It completely disregards the fact that Permies is a dictatorship, not a democracy. This is Paul Wheaton's online living room. It isn't hard to find the threads that expound on this, and why it has to be that way. It keeps things civil.  If you're not "gentle" you get moderated. If you get unruly enough, you may get booted. This isn't Reddit. There are tons of topics but they all exist within a healthy web of the typical things that permaculture and homesteading goofballs talk about in their living rooms and in their gardens.

I like the fact that you have high aspirations of making Permies better. I'm reminded, however, of a quote that I think was by Chesterton. Never take down a fence until you find out why it was put up in the first place.  Some of the fences here seem out of place. Most aren't.

j

Jim Garlits wrote:Posts don't get pie…

I mean, yours did. I think this little point is fundamentally incorrect but everything else you said was right.

I’m learning.

j

Christopher Weeks wrote:

Jim Garlits wrote:Posts don't get pie…

I mean, yours did. I think this little point is fundamentally incorrect but everything else you said was right.

People get Pie for perfect posts....

Try saying that three times quickly!

I'd like to add one more thing.
Permies is a community. And we're quirky! We have specific language, rules, and especially values that aren't the same as the rest of the world (or even the online world).
It takes a while to "get" how things work here. For example, there is a place to talk about things that can be controversial (the Cider Press) that can only be accessed after you get so many apples. Peers can give you credit for good posts with thumbs up and apples, and pie too.
Your posts stick around for a long time: As mentioned above, Permies is coming up on 20 years old soon, and there are some excellent and super informative threads here that have been around for over a decade, and still bring in new users who are looking for info on how to build a rocket stove, how to improve your soil, or a dozen other things.
When you stick around here for a while you see what we value (good info, real-world experience, great ideas) may not be the same thing that other places value (dollar bills, clicks, eyeballs). Sure, we can pay to promote threads so more people see them, but everyone seems to use Permies differently (some people only look at certain forums, some people only look at new posts, still others come to check out the threads mentioned in the Daily-ish emails). I hope you explore, stick around and get to know us a bit better!

Pie already influences best of lists, suggested lists, and other recommendation features.  

But not as much as thread boost.

This is by design.

Pie is more for the people and the holder of the pie gets the most benefits.

Thread boost is for promoting threads.

Is there a specific thread you would like to boost?

r ranson wrote:Pie already influences best of lists, suggested lists, and other recommendation features.  Definitely.

But not as much as thread boost.

This is by design.

Pie is more for the people and the holder of the pie gets the most benefits.

Thread boost is for promoting threads.

Is there a specific thread you would like to boost?

down below on the thread page, in between "share" and "new topic" is a pie button.  when i hover over it, this popups up... "highlight this topic for more attention".  so i clicked on it for this thread...

What is the point of Nitrogen fixing trees without Inoculant?

and i gave it 3 pies... $6 dollars.  did it give that thread more attention?  i hope so, because i could have bought a nice seed for that $6 dollars.

when i click on "boost" i see a long page with a lot of options.  seems like this is where the "tiny ads" come from.  i've seen these ads but have never clicked on them before.  nobody clicks on ads, unless by accident.  

there's also the flag option "Want to flag this thread for more attention? Grant up to 2 flag(s)".  but as i said above, i saw the flags near the thread title but assumed they meant that the thread had been reported several times.  now that i know what the flags means here, does it make me more likely to give a thread attention?  nope.  it doesn't cost anything to click the flag button.  it's basically the same as clicking the thumbs up.  obviously if you click the thumbs up you think a thread is good and worthy of more attention.  

the solution is simple, let's have the option to sort threads by pies.  this is easy to program, and if anyone isn't interested in seeing this forum's most valuable content, then they simply don't have to click on it.  

if we can sort threads by pies, this will become my favorite forum ever, and i will promote the pie sorting page on all the other forums i participate on...

agaveville
tropicalfruitforum
palmtalk
ourfigs
growingfruit
facebook

i will feature the pie sorting page on my facebook group.  

the pie sorting page will feature the most valuable content on this forum.  if anyone disagrees with the order of the threads, then they are welcome to improve the order by spending their pies accordingly.  no need for flags or boosts.  no need for defective tiny ads.  once people can see and directly compare the top pie threads and the "best ever" threads, then they will clearly understand the problem with using thumbs up to rank things.  then no more war, cancer, global warming, world hunger and so on.  it's a big deal.  

we all know the concept of supply and demand.  but somehow people think that threads are an exception to the rule.  they really aren't.  what's really cool about this forum is that we can easily indicate demand simply by clicking the pie button.  i truly want more threads where we talk about nitrogen fixation so i spent 3 pies on the thread above.  the cheese thread has 2 pies, evidently some people want more cheese threads.  the problem is that there isn't an easy way to see demand as a whole.  all we see are little bits of demand here and there so we don't see the big picture.  this would drastically change once we can sort threads by pie.  then, and only then, will we all be able to see and know the whole demand for topics on this forum.  then, and only then, will the supply conform to the demand.  

paul will easily get the $5000 he wants to promote his videos on youtube.  but by then, he's probably going to want to share a different message.  

Thanks for buying slices of PIE, Carlos!

Have you found an example of a website that operates the way you are talking about and would follow our be nice rule? I can think of places like Twitch where there is a lot of money flying around. But Twitch is not a nice place. Where could we see an example of what you are talking about?

Also, now that you have PIE, you should be able to turn off the ads on Permies. Have you tried that?

I think that some people use Pie in different ways, which is fine.

When somebody posts something that is well written on a variety of subjects I tend to throw them a thumbs up. If there is some pizzazz with photos, videos, maybe a story? I tend to throw apples which albeit free are limited and convey that I appreciate the content that someone has posted. If you make me have an epiphany, you help me make a connection that I was lacking, or you have posted something profound? I'm giving you a slice. That is me taking the time to not only put a little coin in the Permies Purse but to gift something to someone as a token of my appreciation.

Pie does create funding for the site and to continue its functioning because Paul pays to host and maintain as well as orchestrating numerous projects but it isn't the one source of revenue that everything is based on.

Instead of trying to dictate how to run the site, I would encourage you to create the content you want to see on the site. Talk about nitrogren fixation in existing threads and create new ones. Something BEYOND money that is more valuable is collective knowledge in my mind. If you create it, people will come.

Not getting into the conversation except to say:

PIE is not a "donation" situation.  It is a "purchase" situation, by which you get "goods" and "perks" in exchange for "money."  There is no donation.

As for group decisions . . .

This site is a dictatorship.  There are no group decisions.  It is Paul's site.  We get a lot of autonomy in how we use it if we abide by his decisions.  

Welcome to permies.

Jeremy VanGelder wrote:Thanks for buying slices of PIE, Carlos!

Have you found an example of a website that operates the way you are talking about and would follow our be nice rule? I can think of places like Twitch where there is a lot of money flying around. But Twitch is not a nice place. Where could we see an example of what you are talking about?

earlier i posted a list of the other forums i regularly participate on.  let's say that i went on any of them and made the suggestion that we be given the option to use money to reveal our true love for a thread, and that doing so would help support the forum.  if they asked for an example of this idea being used on another website, permies is the only example website i could offer.  

of course i'd have to 1st explain that 1 pie slice equals $3 dollars.  naturally i'd also have to share some example threads with lots of pie slices.  finding them would be no easy task.  

it should be easy to find the most pie threads here.  but it really isn't.  

twitch isn't a nice place?  it can't be because money is being thrown around.  otherwise permies wouldn't be a nice place either since money is already being thrown around here.  but it's not like people randomly spend their money...

"If you make me have an epiphany, you help me make a connection that I was lacking, or you have posted something profound? I'm giving you a slice." - timothy norton

he's not the exception, he's the rule.  otherwise markets would really suck.  since people put thought into how they spend their hard-earned money, it behooves us to be able to easily find and see the top pie threads.  

Jeremy VanGelder wrote:Also, now that you have PIE, you should be able to turn off the ads on Permies. Have you tried that?

eh, like most people i "suffer" from banner blindness.