What would you like to see in a cheesemaking book?

Kenneth Elwell wrote:I'm a strange cheese hater. I have a narrow selection of cheeses (mostly cow) that I will eat, and only do so in smallish quantities. I'm unlikely to make my own, without livestock, I'd have to walk past a wide selection of cheeses at the store to get the raw ingredients!!
However, nobody has mentioned butter. Would butter (cultured or not) fit in a book on cheese? as an alternative? or something to do if conditions were somehow not right for cheeses? (heat, humidity, wrong quantities, milk on sale...)

Also, regarding scaling recipes, a proportional approach perhaps? Something like the recipes totaling 100 grams/percentage, i.e.: 70 grams milk, 10 grams salt, 10 grams rennet, 5 grams vinegar, 5 grams herbs. Then you could easily do the math to use up your random quantity of milk completely. Yield of the recipe could be listed for just the 100 grams, or how many grams of the recipe would make a standard amount, i.e. 950 grams will yield 454 grams (one pound) of finished cheese. A primer on proportions would be useful to include, for the math(s) averse.

Regarding quantities, can milk or it's components be frozen (removing the whey for example), and later turned into cheese, once "enough" had accumulated? Would freezing be an option for a whole recipe or only a certain portion tolerated?

Kenneth's post reminded me of something:  it is really helpful to put both types of measurements in (metric and imperial).  Otherwise, I'd have to sit there with the laptop and a conversion site and convert every single measurement (I do NOT think in metric, and I'm sure people who grew up with metric don't think in imperial!).  Honestly, if only metric measurements were given, I'd skip the book.

Besides always making a whey cheese like gjetost, primost, or ricotta, my favorite use of whey is as a leavening agent with baking soda for baked goods. The proportions are

1/2 cup of whey to 1/2 teaspoon of baking soda

It works great! I usually substitute whey for all of the called for liquid in the recipe, and add the appropriate amount of baking soda to get fluffy pancakes, tender cakes, etc.

There's a discussion on this in the Basic Kitchen Chemistry thread.

Diane Kistner wrote: I just made two large batches of yogurt in it starting with ultra-pasteurized milk from the food pantry, then stirring in some plain Greek yogurt (also from the pantry), and it worked great!

If you wanted to start a thread telling how to do that, I would be very grateful.  I have an instant pot I've never used.

Apparently there is an automated home cheese-making machine in development:  https://fromaggio.com/

I don't think it's in production yet.  One of the sites takes you to a kickstarter account for them.  I'd like to see this completed and in production.

Trace Oswald wrote:

Diane Kistner wrote: I just made two large batches of yogurt in it starting with ultra-pasteurized milk from the food pantry, then stirring in some plain Greek yogurt (also from the pantry), and it worked great!

If you wanted to start a thread telling how to do that, I would be very grateful.  I have an instant pot I've never used.

I just used directions I found on-line for making yogurt in my InstantPot.  My pot has a yogurt setting; if you have one that doesn't have the setting, you can still do it, but will have to enter temperatures and times manually.

Very good to see more interest in cheese making methods! We plan to find a place to homestead and goats figure big on the land. I look forward to the final book product. I have used whey leftovers for soup making and it turns out very rich! Also, I bought a small Dash yogurt maker some time ago, and it works great! I accidentally left the yogurt strain overnight and ended up with a ricotta like food. Ate it all up!
Again, look forward to your book.

Olivia

Psa 104:14

I love the idea!!  You are right about the smaller batch theory.  While I don't have any dairy animals at this point, I could find someone selling goat's milk for cheese making.  So small batches would be essential for me.  Also, I live in the US so I'm not even remotely schooled in the metric weights & measures. The cover shot is great also.

Trace Oswald wrote:

Diane Kistner wrote: I just made two large batches of yogurt in it starting with ultra-pasteurized milk from the food pantry, then stirring in some plain Greek yogurt (also from the pantry), and it worked great!

If you wanted to start a thread telling how to do that, I would be very grateful.  I have an instant pot I've never used.

It wouldn't take a thread. You just dump in the milk, put on the lid set to vent, and press the yogurt button. It brings the milk to the proper temperature, then turns off. You then use a thermometer to ensure the milk cools enough to add your starter. The instructions are in the Instant Pot manual. When the temperature dropped to about 110 degrees, I just stirred in a single-serving pack of plain Greek yogurt with live cultures, then covered it with a cloth under the glass lid and let it sit in a warm place for a few days. Then I strained it to make yogurt cheese, and I just salted it. Came out like the best thick, spreadable cream cheese I've ever had...but I'm going to try pressing some of it in a cheese mold to see what happens to it.

Kathleen Sanderson wrote:Apparently there is an automated home cheese-making machine in development:  https://fromaggio.com/

I don't think it's in production yet.  One of the sites takes you to a kickstarter account for them.  I'd like to see this completed and in production.

I followed the link and YES it is being sold!
Thank you for sharing the link.

Kate Downham,

I have not made cheese yet, but would love to. Your book sounds exciting. Please keep us updated. I hope it will have both a glossary and index.
I also liked the ideas of what if's and then what's, as well as, watch out for's.

Thank you.

I would definitely love to learn about sheep milk cheeses.  I've seen cheese made with goat and sheep together!
Also interested in incorporating herbs and seeds, learning how and when to add them in.
Regarding whey, it can be used in making ferments.  It's like a booster of good microbes for sauerkraut, pickles, etc.
I'm curious to know if all cheeses are fermented.  I was surprised to find out that charcuterie meats actually go through a fermentation process.
Thank you, Kate  

Rose Dallal wrote:I would definitely love to learn about sheep milk cheeses.  I've seen cheese made with goat and sheep together!
Also interested in incorporating herbs and seeds, learning how and when to add them in.
Regarding whey, it can be used in making ferments.  It's like a booster of good microbes for sauerkraut, pickles, etc.
I'm curious to know if all cheeses are fermented.  I was surprised to find out that charcuterie meats actually go through a fermentation process.
Thank you, Kate  

Not all cheeses are fermented -- there are a few that are made by just curdling fresh milk.  They are, to my taste, rather bland, but make good bases for various seasonings.  I tend not to make them, because my digestive system doesn't much like fresh milk.  It does better with fermented milk products (yogurt, kefir, cheeses).

ETA: I think the non-fermented cheeses are mostly from hot climates where you are more likely to get wild yeasts spoiling things.

Kate Downham wrote:I’m creating a cheesemaking book focusing on small batch natural cheesemaking, so that people with a small herd of goats or a single house cow can learn to make small cheeses often, and to teach people without dairy animals how to make cheese without having to use huge quantities of milk.
...
Anything else that you’d really like to see in a cheese book?

I've never read a cheese book but I've got a story and a question!

My husband and I went waaaay up into a mountainous region of Peru, and the women made fresh cheese daily. I wanted to be able to make it once we left, so I asked one of them how they did it and I got this loooong, convoluted explanation about taking something out of the cow and drying it and cutting that into pieces. So... when I found out that I'd need to learn all of that instead of using purchased rennet, I lost interest.

We've returned to the States and now I want some of that cheese! Do you think the rennet used here and "innard" rennet has much effect on the taste of the cheese?

Trace Oswald wrote:

If you wanted to start a thread telling how to do that, I would be very grateful.  I have an instant pot I've never used.

I use my Foodi to make yogurt. Of the half dozen methods I've tried, it's  my fave. Heat the milk to near boiling, let cool to under 115, stir in yogurt and maintain a temperature between 105 and 117, with 112 being the target temperature, supposedly. 118 gives it a rubbery texture; 104 can let other stuff grow in it.

The longer it sets, the more tart, thick, etc. I do mine in quart canning jars, lids on.

I totally agree with the milk variations such as powdered or canned evaporated milk. Any information available on non-refrigerated storage (I live off grid, so no full time electricity.)

Also, low budget information. So making your own equipment or using what you have. Living in a remote village in Alaska, many things are harder to come by. Even a trip to Walmart is a 2-3 hour roundtrip minimum. And ordering things online often takes 3-4 weeks to get to us.

Sounds like a really great book in the making and I would like to buy it because  you are asking people about content and mention  the milk variety, different textures and  tastes .
There isn't anything I can add since people already made great suggestions that I was wondering about.

#1. Not meaning to sound disrespectful but while the History of cheesemaking was mentioned.... I beg, please don't!  (I have several books and all take just too many pages on
      "history") . It would be soooo satisfying  just to "get on with the program".

#2.  I too,  have several books on cheesemaking,  but the information in them differ or aren't fully explained.

# 3 .  It's immaterial to me what's on the cover of the book. As long as it says what's it for, I'm happy

P.S.
       YT videos on  cheesemaking I can't stomach (no pun intended)  TOO MUCH useless talking!
       Thank you

One of the things I’ve struggled with other cheese books has been the minimum batch size, so I’ve been experimenting with making batches as small as possible, as well as making cheeses in less-than-ideal conditions to see how much different types of cheese can tolerate deviations from the recipes and less-than-ideal aging conditions, as in real life things happen and not many homesteaders can always be there every time to do each stage of the cheesemaking.[

I especially like the idea above of making cheeses in less than ideal circumstances and conditions. I love David Asher's book as it set me free to some degree from exacting recipes, but it's still a little intense for many people. I love his idea of using kefir as a starter. But I keep thinking, did people in the old days know the temperature of their milk? I doubt it. And did they sterilize their equipment every time, if ever? Probably not. So cheesemaking for homesteaders sounds like a good idea. Focus on a few easy, forgiving cheeses. I am looking forward to seeing how your Tomme cheese comes out. It's aging in my little mini fridge cheese "cave". I love your cookbook!!!

I'm one of those people that hates following a recipe, I'd rather learn procedures, techniques, and rationale. So if possible, I'd like to see a cheesemaking book that broke down options like ways to age cheese and discussed what else besides texture changes when you age cheese, why certain cheeses are aged, and what impact things like different aging times has on flavors (and safety where applicable). So yeah, different charts and like even a flow chart of what to do when

also I'm really interested in cave aging like in a real cave, I'd love to know the criteria for a good cheese cave and how this was done in the past without losses to wildlife

Thank you everyone for the excellent feedback!

Kathleen Sanderson wrote:This sounds like a great book, and I love the cover!  

I've had dairy goats for most of the last forty years, but it was a long time before I tried making cheese with their milk, because one lady we met along the way (may have been buying a goat from her, I can't remember) gave us a bit of her cheese to try, and not only did I not care for the flavor, it squeaked against my teeth.  Not coming from a family of cheese connoisseurs (I grew up on yellow cheddar -- good -- and Velveeta -- not good), I had no idea of the wonderful world of cheeses and all the possibilities out there.  Eventually, I got one of the extant books on cheesemaking and tried a few, had some success, found some favorites, and did some experimenting (mostly successful, to my surprise!).  

So, what would I like to see that hasn't already been mentioned?  Maybe directions on making a home cheese 'cave' for aging cheeses, because it doesn't work to age them in the kitchen frig with the rest of your perishable food.  (A mini-frig?)  How to make your own equipment would be good (I've bought presses, twice, and gotten rid of them twice when I thought I wasn't going to be milking anymore ever.  Now I have Nigerian Dwarfs, and a Jersey heifer).  Maybe a better way to make gjetost?  I like it as a once-in-a-while thing, but it takes forever to simmer the whey down to cheese.  Uses a lot of electricity.  I could see making it on a woodstove if you were running the stove anyway to heat the house.  But -- maybe a crockpot?

Are you going to include milk soap, or will this just be cheese?

Edited to add that I did some experimenting with using kefir as my starter culture, and liked the results very much.  I'd like to see recipes that use home-made kefir as the cheese starter culture.

I have included lots of information about creating a home cheese aging space, and what to look for to mimic the ‘cave’ conditions.

Leigh Tate has a guide to making crock pot gjetost on her blog, this is what inspired me to first try it, first on a solar cooker, and now on the woodstove. The recipes I’d read for it before her one made it sound really finicky and something I didn’t have time for, but after trying it myself it is actually quite simple, the first boiling-off time doesn’t need any attention from me, and getting the ‘crunchy’ gjetost that some recipes say is terrible is actually not that bad - my children actually prefer the crunchy kind.

I won't be including any soap recipes, just cheese, dairy foods, and cheesy foods.

Leigh Tate wrote:I was so happy to find a link to this thread in the Daily-ish! Having only a small herd of goats and small quantities of milk, I love this idea, Kate! The proposed title and cover are perfect.

Of cheesemaking books, I agree that large quantity recipes are a drawback, as is the use of purchased cultures, which are extremely popular right now. I want to make cheese without having to buy ingredients to make it (I had years of cheese fails trying to figure this out). My caveat being that I do have purchased dry rennet powder, but I would love to know how to make my own rennet, both animal and vegetable. People focus on thistle, but I don't have thistle growing and would love to learn what local plants I can forage or cultivate to use for rennet. Then, how do I make and use them?

On a personal note, my climate plus my permie lifestyle limits the kind of cheeses I can make. Our summers are very hot, so to make aged hard cheese, I'd need a cheese cave. I'm not off grid, but I don't have room for an electric cheese cave, so I've leaned more toward making Mediterranean and other warm climate cheeses. I'd love a book that had lots of off-grid cheesemaking recipes for warmer climates. (While I'm sure people in cooler climates would love to know how to make a natural "cheese cave"!) Maybe include a chart on the best ways to store various kinds of cheeses(?) I store some of mine in olive oil, and some, I've found I can store successfully in the freezer.

David Asher did a good job of introducing us to organisms that make good cheese, but I wonder about some of the molds I find growing on mine. I know some are useful for flavor, but others are bad. I'd love a reference chart (pictures?) to know which is which.

I've pretty much found good ways to utilize my whey, but it's always a question for beginners, so I think as many ideas as possible would be good to include.

Really looking forward to this one, Kate!

I have included instructions for making both DIY animal and thistle rennet. Cardoons are an edible plant that aren’t as aggressive as thistles, and their flowers can be used for rennet in the same way as thistles, so could be worth looking into if you want homegrown vegetable rennet. I’ve never heard of anyone having trouble finding thistles before, so thank you for the reminder that it would be good for me to research and test out other plant coagulants - I will see what I can do and hopefully include more options in the book.

Does your house have a crawlspace? The shady side of that might be a good space to store cheeses in brine or oil, or even possibly hard cheese in something that could screen insects and rodents out but allow airflow in. A hole in the ground might work for the brine and oil cheeses too. I think our summers here are much cooler than yours, but I am finding that my hard cheeses store reasonably well in an unheated room with the window open at night - they sometimes leak a little bit of fat during heatwaves and get a bit dry in texture, but that is all a part of my seasonal approach to cheesemaking where cheeses are different at different times of the year.

Abraham Palma wrote:Hi.

Living in a small apartment makes it very hard to make cheese. I heard you either need raw/pasteurized milk (UHT won´t do, which is the cheap one I find in supermarkets), or you need to add a supplement (rennet?) The process is somewhat messy, so I understand that making big batches pays for itself. But then I don't have a good place for drying and maturing the final pieces.

However I do cultivate keffir. And I wondered if there was a way to make cheese with this yoghourt. In part, I was wondering what I could do to prevent keffir fatigue (eating this yoghurt every other day can be taxing). Actually, you can make labneh, which is keffir drained from the whey, and it is very similar to cheese, except that it only lasts one month in the fridge, or up to three months in olive oil. The drainage is very similar to traditional cheese. Draining for 8 hours gives a spreading labneh, good for spreading over toasts. Draining it for 2-3 days with a weight gives a solid piece that looks like fresh cheese.
It tastes a little like cammembert cheese, with a stronger flavour the more you mature it, until it is no longer palatable.

While it is no real cheese, it is a good substitute in my situation.

Oh, if I am lucky, the whey goes into a bread dough. Otherwise, to the pots.

You are correct, UHT won’t make good cheese. Non-homogenised is best if you can find it, but if you can only get homogenised, then the softer cheeses can be made from this as it is, and hard cheeses generally need calcium chloride added to get it to set properly.

I don’t find cheesemaking messy at all. I mix my soft cheese in jars, just adding the rennet and culture to the milk and shaking. For other cheeses, I use a pot, and as long as it’s not too full then there’s minimal mess.

There are several cheeses that don’t need a “cheese cave” type of aging space to store or mature so you might find there are some you can make. I find that even the non-storing types like fast mozzarella, paneer, and ricotta are really enjoyable and affordable to make.

Alexia Allen wrote:Gianaclis Caldwell has written excellent books here in the States. I have a lot of cheese books but I reach for hers over and over. Mastering Artisan Cheesemaking I believe is her most cheese-focused. Each recipe is written for 2- and 12-gallon batches, perfect for me and my small goat/big cow situation. They are organized enough for me to find specific information quickly. I attribute this virtue to her, since many of the books by the brilliant authors at Chelsea Green Publishing are long rambles with very little organization.

I enjoy her book too. Good for understanding the chemistry and other theory behind the cheesemaking for more advanced cheesemakers. Her goat care book is great also. I think for many cheesemakers 2 gallons is too big, and it would be helpful to have books out with smaller batches than this.

Jim Fry wrote:Really nice proposed book cover. ~~But there is a lot of white. I might change one picture to have a more colorful selection. Perhaps a cheese with more spices in it, red pepper or more green herbs might be nice for the color factor. You could also add some annatto seed extract to make an orange cheese. You might also consider wrapping one of the cheeses in leaves (grape or chestnut are good) for color. Or maybe roll a cheese in charcoal. The Art of Natural Cheese Making by David Asher is a really good book on the subject. But we are of the opinion that his pictures are a little weak. We recommend you get the very best pictures you possibly can. All the information is what people use from the book, but the pictures are often why they buy the book.

One other thing you could consider. Some people like history. Maybe you could add a short history of cheese making. ---Whoever first thought of milking a cow/sheep/horse, and drinking it, took a bit of a jump of faith. Might be fun or interesting to write about. And then to take the next step and turn it into cheese was really something. Sort of a bit like soap making. How did that happen? Was somebody sacrificing animals and a bit of fat mixed with wood ash and it dripped down the alter and, wallah, soap?

Anyway, get the book done, do a good job, and we'll probably buy copies. Our cheese making students might like to have copies.

P.S. As for folks like Christine, for Pete's sake, make some cheese. It's not the least bit "daunting". What's the worst that can happen? If a batch doesn't work out, you have a nice bowl of cat or dog food. And you'll learn and do better the next time.

The book is going to be a black and white book with not many photos inside. I think there are plenty of cheese books out there with colour printing and expensive price tags, I am creating something with a depth of information, but an accessible price.

Maybe I’ll tinker with making the cover more colourful, definitely no orange cheese though… We don’t have orange cheese here.

Carla Burke wrote:I just asked John(hubby) what he'd like to see, since he's our resident cheese maker. We're in the USA, at the southern end of the Midwest. Our winters are sometimes very harsh - but our summers (aka when I'm most likely to be milking) are often in the high 90°s - low 100°s (F). Those high temps make for a real challenge to curing cheese. He'd *like* to see detailed plans for a during cabinet or box. I'd be perfectly happy (and frankly, so would he) with effective work-arounds, to achieve something in that vein. We have a tiny refrigerator and a probe style thermostat and setup that was supposed to work, but... it didn't.

That’s interesting to hear that the fridge and thermostat thing didn’t work. I’ve heard a lot of people are using this method so I wonder if you somehow got a faulty thermostat. Was it a humidity issue or a temperature issue?

Thekla McDaniels wrote:Hi Kate!  Sounds like another great book project.  I would have loved to have your book when I was learning to make cheese.

After 10 continuous years goat keeping and milking, I am currently goatless.  Your new book might be going to make me a goat herder again!

One thing I remember early on was my difficulties  over times and temperatures.  I finally asked myself if those ancient cheese originators had clocks and thermometers, and figured they didn’t.  I think ranges of temperatures and times would be helpful, and if possible what the trade offs are.

There’s always an exact size to cut the curd, but what if you don’t get all the same sizes, is it worth the worry, the extra effort to accomplish uniformity?  Again what happens if you don’t….

Etc. Etc etc.  Guidelines and trends and trade offs would have helped me a lot!

Types of commercially available cultures.  That was confusing too.  There’s one called M100 (I think).  It gives a buttery fragrance that is heavenly, but doesn’t make enough acid to use on its own.  There’s thermophilic and mesophilic, no idea what they are, just what temperature they work at.

And if a person wants to use grocery store products as cultures, how to tell if they’re live .  I started with a great chèvre method that used live commercial buttermilk as culture.  The flavor was magnificent.

Your off grid book had lots of variations on recipes.  I think that approach to cheese making would be wonderful, along with permission to name their cheeses what ever they want!

I’m sorry to hear you are now goat-less. I can’t imagine being goat-less! I hope my book will inspire you to get goats again.

I agree about the earlier cheesemakers at the time and temperatures. I’m trying to convey this in the book, that they both work together to some degree, and that you can get away with longer times at lower temperatures (to a certain point).  A lot of books have very rigid recipes, but on the homestead it's not always possible to follow them so I've found there is a lot more leeway than some people may think.

Trace Oswald wrote:In any "how to" book, I want the same thing.  Every detail explained.  I don't like it when people use a term I don't understand and then don't explain exactly what it means.  Please don't tell me to "render" or "parboil" something.  I understand that specificity is important, but at least tell me what that means so I don't have to google it just to continue reading the book.  If I'm reading a book like this and get to a part that I don't understand, there is a very good chance I'll just put the book down and never attempt to do whatever it is I was reading about.   Lots of pictures help as well.  

I'd also like to add, this is something I would buy and would very much like to read.  

I agree. I don’t have much internet access and get books to be a complete resource also, without needing to be online, so it is very frustrating, for example, to get a gardening book that says “plant this plant in the usual way” when I don’t know what the usual way is! I am very conscious about making this a self-contained book so that people can reference it without needing the internet on to find out the meaning of anything in it.

I like a good index in books too and will be doing that for this one.

Hannah Johnson wrote:This looks like a resource I won't want to pass up.

A post by Paul Fookes earlier mentioned something along these lines, but I'll put it in my own words:  When I am tiptoeing into new area of DIY, especially with foods I intend to eat, I feel so much more confident when there is additional information about how things can go wrong and what are the consequences/severity of different outcomes.

Is it too soon to tell when the book will be ready?  It sounds like an excellent addition to my DIY toolkit.  I will have access to fresh milk soon.

It’s looking like it will be ready in July or August this year, but sometimes there are delays so I can’t be 100% certain. If you make sure you’re subscribed to the Permies daily-ish email and/or my blog and I’ll be able to announce it once it is ready.

Kenneth Elwell wrote:I'm a strange cheese hater. I have a narrow selection of cheeses (mostly cow) that I will eat, and only do so in smallish quantities. I'm unlikely to make my own, without livestock, I'd have to walk past a wide selection of cheeses at the store to get the raw ingredients!!
However, nobody has mentioned butter. Would butter (cultured or not) fit in a book on cheese? as an alternative? or something to do if conditions were somehow not right for cheeses? (heat, humidity, wrong quantities, milk on sale...)

Also, regarding scaling recipes, a proportional approach perhaps? Something like the recipes totaling 100 grams/percentage, i.e.: 70 grams milk, 10 grams salt, 10 grams rennet, 5 grams vinegar, 5 grams herbs. Then you could easily do the math to use up your random quantity of milk completely. Yield of the recipe could be listed for just the 100 grams, or how many grams of the recipe would make a standard amount, i.e. 950 grams will yield 454 grams (one pound) of finished cheese. A primer on proportions would be useful to include, for the math(s) averse.

Regarding quantities, can milk or it's components be frozen (removing the whey for example), and later turned into cheese, once "enough" had accumulated? Would freezing be an option for a whole recipe or only a certain portion tolerated?

I have included instructions for cultured butter and some other dairy recipes. There’s also a section of recipes at the end which feature cheese as an ingredient, such as cheesecake, cheese-based veggie patties, savoury cheese pies, and so on.

Milk can be frozen, and I’ve included instructions for how to do this without breaking jars or leaking milk all through the freezer.

Paul Fookes wrote:Hi Kate,
Congratulations on the Cheese idea,
Do you plan to have a section on how to make your own equipment?  Apologies if I missed it.
I think that the what if it goes wrong needs to be in the back of the book, under cheese styles.  The potential pitfalls needs to be an early chapter to alert the potential cheese maker so they can plan to avoid them.  The watch out for this, and fixing the going wrong to my of thinking are two separate parts/ chapters.

Put me down for a couple as gifts and one for me.  I am happy to do a review from the point of view of a complete novice.  If the Cheese turns out half as good as your sourdough, it will be fabulous.
Good luck

What kind of pitfalls do you think would best be covered earlier on? It's a tough thing to think about, as I don't want to discourage people from making cheese. Right now I have various sections where I explain how everything works and how to do all the basic stuff, so that the reader will know not to dilute rennet until the last possible minute, not to move the cheese as it is coagulating, how culturing works and how to avoid contamination problems, how to work with different milks and seasonality, and much more. I present all of this in a positive way rather than a "do as I say or it will all be terrible" kind of way.

I have a section on equipment, where I encourage the use of stuff that is already in the kitchen first, I also cover ways to press cheese without a cheese press, how to read the temperature with your wrist, and some details about making cheese moulds and followers out of small plastic containers.

Kate Downham wrote:That’s interesting to hear that the fridge and thermostat thing didn’t work. I’ve heard a lot of people are using this method so I wonder if you somehow got a faulty thermostat. Was it a humidity issue or a temperature issue?

That could very well be it, but I also know we had a lot of trouble with the probe itself? I'd rather not have to rely on electricity or batteries though, too. It would be relatively easy, if we had a cellar, crawl space, basement, or something, but we don't, and we're in a often-but-not-always humid, 4 season climate, with extremes at both ends. I've been up for trying some of the traditional Mongolian dehydrated styles of cheese, but with goat or cow milk, but, the idea seems to repulse John, so...

Carla, do you have sloping land or hugelculture berm?

Some people make a root cellar by digging into a hillside, or into the ground to bury a 55 gallon drum to use as a root cellar.  Cheese cave and root cellar both aim for constant temperature and humidity.

Maybe think root cellar as you walk around your place looking for options?

Kathleen Sanderson wrote:
Kenneth's post reminded me of something:  it is really helpful to put both types of measurements in (metric and imperial).  Otherwise, I'd have to sit there with the laptop and a conversion site and convert every single measurement (I do NOT think in metric, and I'm sure people who grew up with metric don't think in imperial!).  Honestly, if only metric measurements were given, I'd skip the book.

Measurements for the book are in both metric and imperial. Makes ingredients lists look a bit more clunky sometimes but I think it’s worth it so that everyone can easily understand it. For smaller measurements I favour teaspoons rather than weights as I don’t want anything in the book to rely on digital scales.

Constancia Wiweru wrote:

Kate Downham wrote:I’m creating a cheesemaking book focusing on small batch natural cheesemaking, so that people with a small herd of goats or a single house cow can learn to make small cheeses often, and to teach people without dairy animals how to make cheese without having to use huge quantities of milk.
...
Anything else that you’d really like to see in a cheese book?

I've never read a cheese book but I've got a story and a question!

My husband and I went waaaay up into a mountainous region of Peru, and the women made fresh cheese daily. I wanted to be able to make it once we left, so I asked one of them how they did it and I got this loooong, convoluted explanation about taking something out of the cow and drying it and cutting that into pieces. So... when I found out that I'd need to learn all of that instead of using purchased rennet, I lost interest.

We've returned to the States and now I want some of that cheese! Do you think the rennet used here and "innard" rennet has much effect on the taste of the cheese?

It depends on how old the animal is when the rennet is taken. Rennet from very young animals is excellent for cheesemaking, but as the animal ages, the enzymes in the stomach change, and the milk will not coagulate as well. Traditional animal rennet adds a bit of extra flavour to the cheese - some home cheesemakers without access to this or raw milk will add lipase to their cheeses to mimic the flavour. I don't think it changes the flavour hugely, especially if you are using raw milk, it just adds a little extra something.

Carla Burke wrote:

Kate Downham wrote:That’s interesting to hear that the fridge and thermostat thing didn’t work. I’ve heard a lot of people are using this method so I wonder if you somehow got a faulty thermostat. Was it a humidity issue or a temperature issue?

That could very well be it, but I also know we had a lot of trouble with the probe itself? I'd rather not have to rely on electricity or batteries though, too. It would be relatively easy, if we had a cellar, crawl space, basement, or something, but we don't, and we're in a often-but-not-always humid, 4 season climate, with extremes at both ends. I've been up for trying some of the traditional Mongolian dehydrated styles of cheese, but with goat or cow milk, but, the idea seems to repulse John, so...

For electricity-free cheesemaking it might just be a matter of timing it so that you're avoiding the hottest time of the year, as well as having thermal mass. We manage to age cheeses in less-than-ideal conditions all through the year here, but our summers don't get as hot as yours. My aging setup is an unheated room with thermal mass from a tiled floor, cement walls, and jars of food, an opening window to cool it down at night and for extra ventilation. Humidity is less than ideal in summer, and we end up with quite dry parmesan-style cheeses without much mould and some fat leaking out on very hot days, during the rest of the year we get slower, more gentle aging, and more moulds.

Thekla McDaniels wrote:Carla, do you have sloping land or hugelculture berm?

Some people make a root cellar by digging into a hillside, or into the ground to bury a 55 gallon drum to use as a root cellar.  Cheese cave and root cellar both aim for constant temperature and humidity.

Maybe think root cellar as you walk around your place looking for options?

Hi, Thekla! Our land is in the Ozarks, and is almost entirely ridges and steep ravines, and digging requires either heavy equipment(which is not safe on the ridges & ravines), or explosives, because it's all rocks & clay over bedrock, and caves, with a few small, level-ish areas that have just enough soil to fool a person (until closer inspection) into thinking it will be good for gardens. We've not found any caves on our property, or we'd most definitely utilize that blessing. There's one area that we've been tossing the idea around, about paying our neighbor to dig into a small hill, to build a small berm cellar, but that safety issue - and his cancer diagnosis last year, is holding us back. I'm looking forward to any and all ideas Kate might have, in her book!

You’re way ahead of me, Carla!

I’m waiting to see what Kate comes up with!  Insights for all of us!

I have a basement that stays a constant 68 degrees, but no root cellar.

Just a comment on fertilizer using whey , when I was making cheese we spread the whey in farmers land and the crops were about a foot higher! You can’t over do it, because it will burn like any fertilizer would!