How to meet girls. Things every young guy should know.

Nicole mentioned Jesus

I wonder if Jesus had any game? I wonder if he needed any.

If I was Jesus, I'd put on my Sam Elliott or Barry White voice, cuz I'd be able to do all the voices and I'd walk up alongside a nice woman and I'd say, Hello darling, I'm Jesus, but you can call me JC. And that might be it. Some of them would be smitten immediately.

I might tell them about the circumstances of my birth and the Immaculate Conception. But, then I would tell them I prefer much more natural, organic approach. Permaculture. Yeah, a guy could do all right.

Jesus would have had the advantage of knowing what they're thinking all the time. And he's quite a catch, an awesome provider. You may recall the Loaves and Fishes.

If we believe the nice pictures that Leonardo DaVinci provided, his Northern Italian good looks would have stood out amongst his Semitic brethren. So the girls would find him exotic looking as well.

He seemed a bit skinny, so I can probably bench more than him, but his ability to walk on water and turn water into wine, would surely outweigh that dubious skill.

If I could turn water into wine, I'd make sure that every woman from Jerusalem to Damascus knew about it.

 As The Story Goes, he kept it under control. Apparently, he liked the whores, but only in a platonic way. Such a waste, for a guy who had more natural game than Frank Sinatra, Mick Jagger, Jim Morrison and Russell Brand combined.

Agree with Judith and Nicole.

The bad boy or guy "with game" was attractive when I was in my 20s because of the whole fantasy/message that women are taught that love will redeem him and make him a good man/provider/prince.  Life and relationships change you and make you wiser (if you want them to anyway) and while I'm happy / content being single and will remain happy if I am single the rest of my life (and if the statistics / statements here are to be believed, the fact that I'm in my 40s makes that likely), the man I would be open to as a life partner is not the guy with game.  Not the guy I'm going to (or want to) change.

He's already a good man.  He's the hard working, kind, trustworthy, funny (at least occasionally) man who makes me lose track of time when I'm with him.  He respects himself enough to take care of his health/body (while not spending all of his time on it).  I'm not looking for a provider anymore and don't need a father for the children I don't want.  Yes, I would be attracted to him but my attraction for someone starts with these other characteristics.

And to answer the picture question, I wouldn't message someone who posted half naked pictures unless it was one picture where he was splitting wood in the sun or something that warranted being that way, along with fully clothed pictures.  You can tell a lot about a person's body when it's clothed; leave some mystery to discover.

Dale - To my mind, pictures that like are only going to attract shallow people, like others have noted, pictures showing activities you enjoy would be better.

Like Nicole, I'm in no way a 'normal' woman. I think the best way for all people to meet others is at events of shared interest. I like hiking, foraging, natural building, permaculture, gardening. All of these things have outing, events, workshops, festivals that I can attend and meet like-minded people. Stores, restaurants and bars aren't as good options.

Nice physical appearance is all well and good, but eventually I'm going to want to talk to this person. It really doesn't matter that much.

All I've ever wanted was a partner, and all I've ever gotten was another person to take care of.

That being said, I've never had any problem finding lovers, regardless of age, weight, appearance or another else. But lovers and partners aren't the same thing.

The women of Permies are awesome....really great advice ladies!  

Dale Hodgins wrote:My most recent example of a well-timed flirtation, happened at a restaurant. A lady quickly removed her jacket, while remarking to her friend, that she was too hot. I was seated at the next table. She took it off and sat down 2 feet from me. A crowded place. I said, removing that jacket hasn't helped, I think it's your eyes that are making you so hot. Then I turned to her friend, and said, what do you think? I think it's the eyes. In your case, it's definitely the sweater. It All Happened very quickly and then that was it. An opportunity to engage with two pretty women, presented itself and in less than 5 seconds, I had both of them smiling. This didn't turn into a steamy threesome, and I wasn't expecting it to. In fact I wasn't expecting anything. This minor opportunity presented itself and I automatically responded. I went about my business on the phone, while they chatted. When they got up to leave, both said nice meeting you. The jacket went back on, so I said, now you're even hotter! And both ladies departed with a smile.

Hitting on women who were too polite to tell you how they really thought. And here we are, with you telling us all about your happy, devoted relationship with your Filipino girlfriend. I cannot help but wonder how she would feel about such an interaction.

Sonja, one of my friends got divorced and was convinced that she wouldn't find another guy as she was in her 40s and overweight....she's very happily remarried now.  You seem to have your priorities in a great place so when you find the next guy he'll be a good one.  Cheers.

Hitting on women who were too polite to tell you what they really thought.

Exactly...don't assume anything...change is coming but oh so slow.
Many women are still brought up to be polite no matter what and to laugh things off even if they feel offended.
 

I wasn't hitting on anybody. Don't think I've ever had any luck extracting a woman from a group situation. They came in together and left together. There were smiles all around. This was before I developed the girlfriend, but something as innocent as that could happen at any time. A similar interaction several years ago is how I met Linda. We dated for 2 years.
.......
I was having breakfast at the Starbucks coffee shop closest to my job 2 weeks ago and a girl who works the counter at a different Starbucks, sat down and said, "Hi Dale, I see you've been cheating on us and going to the wrong Starbucks. I've completely run out of dirty jokes." I had shared quite a few off colored jokes at the Cook Street Starbucks. And I always knew that they wanted to hear more, because they told me many of theirs. I'm perfectly capable of reading those sorts of signals. I talk to people. I'm not going to stop, and there's nothing wrong with me talking to people.

I absorbed so much bitching in my early life, that I seem to have some sort of radar for it now. Because I'm just not encountering much of it anymore. I tend to avoid interactions that I think may go that way. So there are times when I'm sitting right beside somebody, and I don't say much at all. When people arrive with a very friendly demeanor, like the two ladies, I'm chatty.

So, I think we have established that shirtless photos are not the way to go on a dating site. Something I haven't done but that I had definitely thought about.

I have my own bias when checking out women on those sites. I skip by those who are wearing an inordinate amount of makeup. I also skip any that appear to have had breast augmentation.

And I'm glad I live where I do, where I have many pleasant interactions with strangers who sometimes become friends.

.

Dale, it might be that no one feels hit upon when you tell a stranger in a restaurant they are 'hot' and as you say, your ways work for you...I think a young guy telling that to a young girl could be misconstrued, very likely inappropriate and a cause of awkwardness.

I think some of those anecdotes are interesting although maybe not all the best advice for "How to meet girls.  Things every young guy should know." ?

When I was quite young, I made a serious misstep, in who I married. I believe that a big part of why that happened, was that I didn't know a lot of women, because my ability to meet them was limited. I have always worked in completely male-dominated work environments and I've never been a consumer of alcohol.

So I wasn't going to meet women at work and it wasn't going to meet them at the bar. Many fellows in my position might meet them at church. That happened with me, but I've been an Atheist since I was 8 years old. This made interactions with these girls difficult. The woman I eventually married, was a member of my parents church. We both decided that the religion wasn't that important, but for very different reasons. It wasn't important to me, because I saw it as a remnant of a more primitive time in our history, that would fade away in time. If I look at what's happened with the country of Ireland since the time when I got married, this certainly seems to be the case. But it didn't happen within my relationship. My ex-wife believed that I would eventually see the light. I stayed the same, but she got deeper into it and eventually very resentful of my unwillingness to budge. It really deteriorated quickly, when my oldest daughter made it clear that she hadn't bought into any of her mother's beliefs. Now both daughters are grown and well-educated. Both are atheists, and this isn't something I had to do. To me it's a natural progression. It has caused nothing but strife between them and their mother. I see the girls several times a week. They have to be prodded into seeing their mother sometimes. So, I believe that it is very important for young guys to have the opportunity to meet a wide variety of women, so that they can become more evenly matched than I was.

I haven't had that inability to meet women, since my divorce which was over 20 years ago. Now, I bump into women every day, and there are many electronic tools to help a fellow out.

These changes in the dating scene, have certainly made it easier for people to connect. But I think in most situations, the man is still expected to make first contact, and to not fall flat on his face in the process. He needs to have some game. A big part of that, would seem to be choosing suitable candidates. That's part of why I think real estate is so important. If you really like drinking, look for a girl at a bar. If you're really into religion, try the church. But the main thing is, cast a wide net. This doesn't mean that you have to marry all of these women or bang them all. Just take the simple steps required to meet them. If you meet one or a hundred of them who are somehow put off by your attempts, that is water under the bridge. There will be many more who are either open to getting to know you or who will simply take it as flattery and then tell you they have a boyfriend. In fact, it doesn't even usually come to that. I have experienced some of the softest rejections imaginable. Women who are all smiles and quite chatty, even after they have revealed their status. A few have even said that they wish they were single right now! One told me that she's going to let her husband know that she's still got it. So, I think the number one thing is to get over fear of rejection. I haven't experienced a really negative rejection in years. In fact it's almost always me doing the rejecting, but in such a subtle way, that the lady doesn't know that it has happened. Most women that you meet, will not be right for you, for a litany of reasons. I don't go into these things expecting to produce a marriage proposal right away. So, most times the person you meet won't be mr. or mrs. right. I have found myself chatting with women who are in the middle of a messy divorce, with others who are moving back to California in a month and with some who appear to have mud between their ears. But that doesn't mean that we can't have a chat, which could lead to something. If you find you've met one who is absolutely unsuitable, it's pretty easy to have a pleasant chat and just don't bring up the idea of going on a date or anything of the sort. They may think that you've dropped the ball and have no game, when in fact you have wisely chosen not to pursue someone unsuitable. I think it's important for young men to learn how to cast a wide net, but to also be careful not to bruise the ones that he throws back.

I see that Judith arrived while I was in the middle of writing my little book.

Awkwardness. I'm guessing that many happy relationships have never taken place, because those people didn't meet. And the reason is the young man's fear of that awkwardness. So he sits there and says nothing and does nothing, and the girl he is interested in walks out of his life.

Here's something I've done a few times, but I'm only going to tell you about the two where I know it worked out.

I was seated in a public place a couple years ago and a young man started chatting with a young lady while they were both putting milk and sugar in their drinks. It went on for at least five minutes. It was clear to me that this was their first meeting. They continued chatting until finally, the young girl said, I'm going to have to get to work. And the young fellow said okay, nice meeting...
And that's where I intervened. I got up and said hello, this young man has no game. I'm going to take your man card now. And I pretended to take his man card just like they do on that show Scrubs. Then I said, what he meant to say was not okay goodbye then. What he wanted to do was to ask for your phone number so that you could get together another time. And that's exactly what happened. I met them walking down the sidewalk a few weeks later.

I know one of the people in this next story. Spencer is a young man who works at the branch dump where I regularly get rid of organic waste. He often helps people to unload their organic waste when he's not busy running the compactor. He hit the jackpot one day, when he ended up helping the young lady that he was obviously interested in. I watched the two of them slowly unload the truck, a few branches at a time as they chated about this and that. As the truck became almost empty, I realized that Spencer was not going to make his move. So, I asked the young lady. Do you know why Spencer has been taking so long unloading your truck, but he hasn't made his move? And then I answered for her. It's because he works here and he's not allowed to hit on the women who show up to unload. But if you were to give him your number, I'm sure he would call. They exchanged numbers and now I can dump two or three loads a day, even though the city says you're only allowed one load a day. So it appears that we all were winners in this little interaction.

Two of the young girls who work at the coffee shop where I go often in the morning, were casually complaining about the various unpleasant aspects of their jobs. I remarked that I don't know why either one of them gave up modeling to pursue this. One of them said, Dale, you are so bad, but with a big smile on her face. She knew that I wasn't hitting on them. I see them almost every morning and they are 30 years younger than me. So I don't think the suggestion that they could both make it as models was sleazy in any way. I was given free samples of three different types of cookie. By the time you've eaten three samples, you don't need to buy one.

I mentioned bruised feeling earlier.

This has come up for me recently, but in the weirdest way. I have had several relationships in this city, in the last few years. All were with women close to my age. And now several of them know that I have been quite successful in pursuing women vastly younger than they are. In each case, we parted on good terms, but now two of them have decided to be quite unhappy about what I'm up to. I wasn't pursuing these women while I was in those relationships. I guess it's given them something to think about. Both have really let themselves go physically. So instead of being happy for me, they are resentful. I don't know that there's much I can do about this. It's not something I tried to tell them about. But inevitably, when you bump into somebody and they find out that you've been involved in online dating, they want to know about it. And the first thing everyone wants to know is, how old is she. They don't ask, what does she do for a living? Or what do you have in common? Or what is it you like best about her? Instead they look for a criteria where they come out the loser in any sort of comparison.

A couple of my brothers have poked fun at my expense, although they know it's like water off a duck. Their wives, on the other hand are quick to point out that I'm a shallow Beast, and my behavior is not to be emulated.
........
So, I guess the idea that young guys need pointers on this stuff, has been brought into question. When I first decided to write this thread, it was after reading several very poorly put together personal ads that were produced by young men. I read those things and I think, could these possibly work?

So I ask again. Does anyone have other ideas to help improve their game? They already know to be polite and to just be themselves. Somebody told them that in kindergarten. So I'm asking do you have actual things that they could do. Specific actions or gimmicks or what have you, that will help them meet women. I'm talking about how to meet them. Not what to do after that.

I'm going back to sleep now. I woke up in the middle of the night and decided the world needs more of my wisdom. I'm sure I'll find that many disagree. :-)

Greg Martin wrote:Sonja, You seem to have your priorities in a great place so when you find the next guy he'll be a good one.  Cheers.

Thanks, Greg!  :)

I think it's important to remember that most women have had unpleasant experiences with men who were interested in them, and many experienced violence, so a lot of our defensiveness is in the interest of protecting ourselves. I've seen statistics implying that 1/4 to 1/3 of women in the US have been the victims of sexual violence. Of course this doesn't mean that 1/3 to 1/4 of men are violent, those who are violent tend to have multiple victims.
But I've gotta say, the one thing that would actually get me to let my guard down is knowing that the man I'm talking to is actually interested in me as a person. For some reason in the dating scene this almost never happens. It's always based on physical appearance, or so it appears to me. Of course, if I'm going to be interested in someone I need to find him attractive. BUT. I'm not going to be interested in someone because I find him attractive. And on those lines, to concur with the other women who have posted, there is nothing, I mean NOTHING sexier than a man chopping wood. In a flannel shirt, that is partially unbuttoned. Men blatantly trying to show off their bodies being shirtless and flexing just makes them look whorish. It's like a girl loaded with makeup sucking a lolipop in her bra, total skankapoo/not relationship material.
So. Just to make this clear.
If you're going the online route, post pictures of yourself doing USEFUL LABOR like chopping wood, not lounging about in your bed, at the gym, or in a bathroom somewhere. Give REASONS why you're interested OTHER than her appearance, like, say, a hobby you share. It doesn't have to be a deep connection at first, just not a totally superficial and meaningless one. This will help her feel more at ease, and less like you're trying to kidnap her and lock her up in your basement.
Perhaps ironically, it's usually (not always) the confident guys who are less likely to be abusive. They don't feel insecure or have paranoid delusions about their mate cheating on/dumping them, so they don't get super controlling. I believe this is a big part of why girls prefer confident guys. HOWEVER the cocky/brazen douchebags frequently mislabeled as confident are actually insecure guys trying to compensate for their anxiety and feelings of inadequacy. These can be super dangerous as they're simultaneously alluring and so overloaded with testosterone that the only part of their brain that works is the dick part.

So. If you can demonstrate that you know YOUR worth, and that you also know HER worth, you have pretty good odds of gaining her confidence. If there's mutual interest and mutual attraction, it should be simple from there. If you don't see value in a woman beyond her body, you're not right for each other. Don't be bitter over something so silly. I have learned not to be offended when someone isn't attracted to me.

Reading Dales posts and I would like to say that he has some VERY interesting advice. I appreciate what you are posting.

When my father died, a lady called at the funeral. My father had complimented her on her dress in the grocery store around 20 years before and she had never forgotten that. Showed me how much power a compliment has.

What others are saying in this thread about finding common activities (to do together) is incredibly important.

I didn't do anywhere near enough of that with my wife. When we were dating she told me that she loved gardening and canning and cooking and cleaning. Told is as far as any of that went. The first year we were married we walked the ditches near my mom's house and picked up pop cans. That was the last time that happened. 7 years ago. I go for 3 mile walks around town about twice a week now, she has no interest in walking whatsoever. We met when we were both working at a Salvation Army camp... she now has no interest in doing that again, and I would love to work at camps with my spouse for the summer. I thought she was a pretty hard worker and always had a smile on her face at the time... now it's the complete opposite. She has a job as a home maker in a home for mentally disabled people and she is now a supervisor there. Drives me absolutely nuts because I'm a 9-5 guy and her job is 3-11 and she likes to sleep all day until it's time for her to go to work.

There's  been a couple years where we have done some canning together but now it's just "that'll make the house too hot" or some other excuse. We married after dating for 3 months. A bit of a mistake but it's been alright other than the fact that we've no kids and she desperately wants kids- won't make the effort to remedy her health so she can have kids though.

I don't know what a man can do to remedy that other than making sure that you marry a woman that is in reasonable physical condition, has a mother who is in reasonable physical condition, and when you visit her parents that they have a reasonable habits such as cooking good food and the women of the house actually do the cooking and the cleaning if that's what you are looking for. Lifelong habits are hard to break.

I also think that it's extremely difficult for disabled people (me, hard of hearing) to marry non-disabled people who haven't' grown up with a family member with that disability. My wife grew up with a brother who was bedridden so she has some experience with it but it's still very difficult, and after 7 years she still hasn't learned much sign language at all. I speak quite well but it's really handy to know sign language so I'm not saying what all the time.

If someone were wondering how long to date- if you do not know for a fact that this person you are dating has established habits (a full pantry of things that they've canned, if that's your thing, a large garden that's well tended, if that's your thing, etc.) date them for two or three years before you marry them.

I like to go with extreme honesty, for the online thing. I stated various things about myself that would tend filter me out.

I am clear about my intentions and about what I like and what I don't like. I talk a little bit about my career and financial plans. I make clear my bias against extreme religiosity and anyone who has worked to destroy their own health. I've had fun with tattoos. I asked a couple if they were interested in seeing them. The woman that I'm currently attached to found the whole idea abhorrent. I don't have tattoos, so I was just interested in her reaction. I told her you don't put bumper stickers on a Ferrari.

I think it's very important to specify what you're looking for and to read carefully what the other person is looking for. If she looking for a 20 year old Chinese man who is 7 feet tall, then I know that I don't fit her criteria. I don't think it works when people try to bend the other person, to force them to accept someone vastly different than what they were hoping for. I have had quite a few people that I know, try to tell me what I'm looking for. My brother has mentioned this woman or that woman. I was very clear that the fact that she knows him in some way, is a huge red flag. He took this as an insult, and I suppose it was. I know I can do better than finding someone who would give him the time of day.

I've had others tell me that I need to find a single mother, because there are too many kids without fathers. Just about everyone in my immediate family has weighed in on what they consider to be an appropriate age and race for me to date. Some have stated an exact age and the belief that I should eliminate entire continents from my search. My ex-wife doesn't want me doing anything that would cause my assets to being divided more than two ways. We have two children that are grown and financially independent.

Luckily, I've always been pretty good at ignoring white noise. so not only do I not heed their advice, I don't give it much consideration at all, unless I'm looking to make a joke.

One of these interactions was quite comical. There's a woman that I've known casually for several years, since she frequents the coffee shop where I most often go in the morning. She has weighed in on this without reservation. I was told quite flatly, that I should only only search in the immediate vicinity where I live. Her reason, was that there is a shortage of viable husband material right here in Victoria. These foreign women are stealing our men. Stealing. She has told me how despicable I am. So of course, I said that it shouldn't hurt Victoria's dating pool too much if one horrible man, were to leave it. But she doesn't want that. The only thing that makes me despicable, turns out that I'm willing to entertain the idea of a relationship with any woman on this planet, if I think it can work. Other than that, I'm a fine specimen. Fit and healthy, employed and financially solvent.

On the idea of dating for many years. I'm sure that I won't do that. I've only been married once and we dated for 4 years. It took less than that much time for it to fall apart. A different brother than the one I mentioned earlier, dated his wife for about three months before they got married. They've been doing well for several years. So I asked him how soon he knew that this might be the one. He said he was pretty sure after a few hours, but waited quite a while, so as not to freak her out.

It's quite likely that I will make a trip to the Philippines. I won't be going as a tourist, in fact I may not leave Panay Island. But I will spend a month or more, and then a decision will be made. It's already largely made, in that if everything I've been told is true, then I couldn't do better. The woman I'm going to see, eliminated all other contacts, the day after we met. I'm pretty charming.

So, time will tell. I'm hoping to do it over the Christmas season, but that will have to be approved by her and by her family. Nothing happens if the family disapproves. And that's really the only point of contention we have had. She has been very concerned about what my mother and brothers and sister and ex-wife and mostly my children will think of it all. And I have told her repeatedly, but I'm a grown man and that I have never put any stock in what most of them have had to say, except for the two daughters. There's a little cultural difference there. This idea of a man operating completely outside of what his family or society thinks, is definitely foreign to her.

I have found that as I have amazingly made to this segment in life called "middle age"  when I give a cutesy-flirty comment to a woman in her prime, and she smiles at me, I understand that it is the same smile that she would give to a twelve year old boy making the same comment.  I can almost feel her urge to pat me on the head.

Ed Belote wrote:I have found that as I have amazingly made to this segment in life called "middle age"  when I give a cutesy-flirty comment to a woman in her prime, and she smiles at me, I understand that it is the same smile that she would give to a twelve year old boy making the same comment.  I can almost feel her urge to pat me on the head.

LOL.  Thanks for that.

Ed Belote wrote:I have found that as I have amazingly made to this segment in life called "middle age"  when I give a cutesy-flirty comment to a woman in her prime, and she smiles at me, I understand that it is the same smile that she would give to a twelve year old boy making the same comment.  I can almost feel her urge to pat me on the head.

Yep, can definitely relate to that, however, since I'm not balding, I prefer the term: Grey Fox

My advise for upping your 'game' is just go for it. Don't be a wimp or shy and not say or do anything because your nervous.

I'm an extremely shy person until I get to know someone and the way I started with my wife is quite a story. So I was at a girls house that I wanted to date but was previously shut down and basically friend zoned while she could mess with my head. She had a family friend over who I said like 2 words to well later that night the 12 year old brother dared me to kiss Crystal. I distinctly remember thinking that the worse case scenario is I get slapped so what the heck go for it. I rushed in and pecked her on the cheek... her response was that's not a kiss and proceeded to plant a good one on my lips. That was some 12 years ago and we are still happily married and how we started dating without knowing or talking to each other first.

Moral of the story if the worst outcome of your action is a rejection or a slap life goes on so JUST DO IT. Rejection has the same outcome as not starting anything in the first place.

I never really used pickup lines per say but I use every opportunity to say something cheesy anything to make the girl smile or laugh

Join something. Some group or Civic effort. We have many different fundraisers here for charities. There seems to be more women show up for these things than there are men. And you don't need to limit your interactions to single women. Married women and those who are attached, are always trying to make sure that every single woman they know is attached in some way. I think that deep down, this may be a form of mate retention. You'll notice that single attractive women don't get invited to every couples event. They are considered dangerous. But once they are coupled up, the most beautiful woman is considered harmless, buy the others. So any single fellow who presents himself well, can find a date when seated at a table full of married ladies.

This happened to me many years ago when I wasn't really looking. I went to the Philippine Cultural Center, with my friend, because there was an ad for inexpensive meals. While we were eating, some old ladies came over and questioned us about our personal habits, our marital status, smoking, drinking, gambling and whoring. I did quite well, until I told them about the atheism and suggested that maybe I could marry a few of them. But I was just having fun. I'm perfectly happy to have just one really nice woman.

When it comes to joining things, if your primary goal is to meet women, then it might not be a good idea to join one of those philosophy Club that's 90% men. I wouldn't join any thing where I'm expected to show up every week. Better to join the thing where you go for a one-day Beach cleanup, or one day helping to put in the public garden, or one day to help get rid of some invasive species. That way you're meeting a different group every time. Casting a wide net.

I wonder if anybody has ever started a Meetup Group, simply so that people could meet him. You could advertise there's going to be a meet up at Fred's Restaurant at 8 tonight. You're all coming to meet Bob. Then run a little personal ad that tells everything about yourself. I'd come, just to see if Bob draws a crowd and to see if any of that crowd aren't just people like me who came to see the same thing. We don't want to see him Crash and Burn. I'd be cheering for him. I don't know how they sent those things up or if that would work.

My brother-in-law Jim, joined Faith Assembly Church in St Catharines Ontario, because he knew that lots of girls went there. And that's where he met my sister. He had her pregnant within 3 months, and a shotgun wedding was arranged. They stayed married for 20 years, until Karen died of a brain tumor. Jim was very fond of telling the story of why he went to Faith Assembly Church. Sometimes, Karen would try to stop the story, but she knew he was going to finish.

And that wasn't his only gimmick. Jim had more moves than a can of worms. He wrote her many songs, that turned out later to be authored by various well-known musicians.

I don't advocate lying like this, but Jim I'm sure would still be a strong proponent of it.

I think I'm all argued out on this thread, so what do you say if we just go with examples of how people got together for a while, just like I did with Jim and Karen.

My ex-wife was already Sweet On Me, before this incident. She couldn't swim, but my sisters friend didn't know that and thought it would be fun to heave her into the deep end of the swimming pool at my dad's farm. I was the only one there capable of fishing anyone out, which I did, within 10 seconds of the splash. She used this incident as an excuse to call me on a few occasions. We were married a few years later.

I suppose it could have happened without the drowning thing. But she became much more fixated on me after that incident.

So, you need to hang around one of those dangerous spots in the river, and wait for your chance. Don't get a girl named Dawn to throw somebody in. That could go horribly wrong.

Dale Hodgins wrote:I think I'm all argued out on this thread...

Promise?

Honestly, I think you have posted some sage advice here.

I'm never really done. I think it was just the first of 15 rounds. I've got the stamina of one of those preachers that spits when he talks. Some girls like that.

Dale Hodgins wrote:Join something. Some group or Civic effort.

This reminded me of this gem of a thread: https://permies.com/t/51780/Medieval-Survival-Experiment-SCA-Prepping. It was all about how joining SCA would be your best way to ensure survival in case of an apocalypse. I'm thinking the SCA would also be a potentially great place to find a like-minded spouse. Ross also mentioned that many of the people at these events are somewhere on the autistic/aspergers spectrum. I probably am on that spectrum as well, as is my husband.

I'm also on a local homesteading womens group on facebook. Through that, I've met quite a few other homesteading women. My husband and I both think that probably 50%-75% of those women are somewhere on the spectrum. It seeeems that many autistic/aspergers women are drawn to a homesteading life, being close to nature, away from most people, living simply, bonded to just a few people, etc. Of the autistic women I've met and chatted with, they all seem to be the  same sort of women that look for "Luke Skywalkers" instead of "Hans Solos."

There's a lot of generalizing in those last two paragraphs, but I'm thinking that joining the SCA (Society of Creative Anachronism--aka the "Renaissance Faire" people) would probably a good place to:

(1) Learn a bunch of cool skills
(2) Meet women who are already interested in learning antiquated skills, which are usually pretty complimentary to permaculture/homesteading. They are probably are more likely to dream of living in a cabin in the woods, too...
(3) Find women who are attracted to "nice" guys instead of "jerks."
(4) Make friends that are interested in similar subjects as you.
(5) Have a lot of fun. I mean, you get to be a knight or archer or lord or whatever! I want to join, and hopefully will be able to make the time to when my kids are older.

Dale Hodgins wrote:I think I'm all argued out on this thread, so what do you say if we just go with examples of how people got together for a while, just like I did with Jim and Karen.

My husband and I met at our church's Young Adult ministry. I'd been frustrated for a while that there was no one to talk deeply with--all people wanted to do was small talk. We'd have a really though-provoking sermon...and afterward no one talked about it. They acted like it never happened. Anyway, one day this new guy comes with a puffy olive green coat, a mushroom necklace, long hair, and a big, geniune smile. AND, he wanted to actually talk about things, like oceanography, the meaning of life, etc. You know, interesting things. He'd just arrived from a state away, having ridden the greyhound, and was living with his parents and was looking for a new start on life, turning away from drugs and addiction. He had passion and conviction and was authentic. I thought that was awesome.

We got to know each other more at a big church retreat, at one point sifting through gravel looking for gemstones, while everyone else was doing, well, boring stuff. I think at that point we both knew the other person was  someone worth getting to know further.

Of course, we biffed things up. He tried to go all romantic at the next church gathering by brining me flowers. He said, "You seem to know a lot about plants; can you identify these for me?" So, I identified them as hydrangeas and gave them back. He said, "Oh, they're for you." This was frightening and perplexing for me (I had never dated and always said I wouldn't date someone unless they were already my best friend...and flowers meant dating....and *gears in my brain spinning futility and getting no where*) . He interpreted my reaction as me not being interested, and he eventually stopped going to church. For a year. Then the church band needed a bass player, and his dad volunteered him, and so we met up again and started hanging out (yay for wandering around random thrift stores, laughing at random wigs and junk!)

Anyway, LONG STORY SHORT: I was interested in my husband because he was authentic, When he tried to have some "game," I pretty much ran away. When he went back to being authentic and fun, our relationship bloomed. And, when I saw that he wasn't "just talk" about transforming his life (got a job, not homeless, managing his money relatively well, not being an alcoholic), and he was really the authentic person I thought he was, I decided that I would tie my life to his forever. And, 11 years later, we're still together. We don't have "game" and we're both still authentic to a fault, and we're both really grateful of that fact!

Ladies, I truly am sorry for many of the things you have had to endure while dating...

I am not the best husband by any means, and today I do not do all the wonderful things I did when we were dating, but to wit...must say that when Katie reiterates what she dealt with her ex-husband and some of the men she dated, I really feel sorry for you ladies putting up with some of that nonsense.

I really do not believe "all the good men are taken", because I also believe "that there is someone out there for everyone". Finding that person is hard, but possible as it took me two divorces to find Katie...a state away mind you! But today, 7 years of marriage and two babies together...she is my best friend, and a wonderful life I would not trade for anything.

so what do you say if we just go with examples of how people got together for a while,

I'll play!

We lived next door to each other in college...me in what I think is called a 'hippie commune' ....he would come over to help sort 'People's Food' orders, and hang out.  Early on, in the coffee house on campus, I asked him if I could catch a ride home, he said sure and we went out to main street and hitched.  It was all about sharing what we were doing anyway until eventually we were living together....no big deal dates, although we had some mind altering experiences that brought us much closer.

More than forty years later that's what our relationship is still...doing what we do naturally and talking and having interesting experiences together.  No 'moves' or 'gimmicks' or 'game' as has been discussed in this thread.

My luck with women is like:

Sonja Draven wrote:

Ed Belote wrote:I have found that as I have amazingly made to this segment in life called "middle age"  when I give a cutesy-flirty comment to a woman in her prime, and she smiles at me, I understand that it is the same smile that she would give to a twelve year old boy making the same comment.  I can almost feel her urge to pat me on the head.

LOL.  Thanks for that.

You are welcome.  It's really all about ones perspective. All of lifes experiences are based on your perspective. Over time you can even build on the memory of a person, place, or situation that couldn't be any farther from the truth.  The ego is a very big hammer in the constructs of the mind.  It can make you or break you.  Most women do not possess this and that is why they are much wiser in the ways of love than men.  As I stated earlier to those having a problem making a connection in this thread, show them your heart.  It will trump any six pack ab or fat bank roll, every time...if it's the right one.  If not, wash, rinse, and repeat.

F Agricola wrote:
Yep, can definitely relate to that, however, since I'm not balding, I prefer the term: Grey Fox

I want to use silver, buy I can't decide whether to use silver surfer or silver god.

There was a tough guy at a High School in Nanaimo British Columbia, who liked to beat up the other kids. Then this fellow I know, Rod moved to the school. He saw what was happening, and hammered the guy. By all accounts, it was a head-to-toe thrashing. Several people have told me about this. Rod has no training and he's not even big. But there was no bullying allowed at any school that he ever went to, because he would take them apart.

So, after the bully was lying flat, the nicest girl that Rod has ever met, informed him that he was now her boyfriend. Right there, in the schoolyard, while the crowd was still watching the guy laying in the dirt. She did it as a public announcement, and he thinks it was done so that the other girls would know he was off the market. He couldn't believe his luck. Shortly after arriving to a new school, he became mr. Popular and he was dating the most attractive and popular girl in the school.

They dated all through High School. Rod became schizophrenic at about 18 and they eventually parted ways. Rod married very poorly, due to his condition( she ran off with someone else) , and she married one of the city's top businessmen. She's one of the most attractive women in that city, well into her 40s. A few times, she popped into my job sites where he was working, they would chat for a few minutes, then she would give him a sack of hand-me-down clothing, from her children, to his who are a bit younger.

Whenever he saw her or thought about her, he would say that he wished he could have held it together mentally and that it seems like a dream now, that she was once his girlfriend.

My grandparents met on the squid jiggin grounds, offshore in Newfoundland. Small boats would go out to where the squid were thick and they would lash the boats together for stability and because it was sort of a meeting place. Squid squirt out a black liquid when they are caught. It's meant to deter predators. They were both covered in this stuff when they met, because they were both helping their parents to haul in the catch.

To accomplish this, you will need a time machine. It's just not done that way anymore.

My grandfather on my father's side, was selected by my grandmother's older brother, who became head of the family at 21 when both parents died. He successfully raised all 13 of his siblings and none went to orphanages.

My grandfather was 19 and he had already saved up enough money to buy his 200 Acre Farm. My grandmother was only 14. But my great-uncle did not want to wait a few years, for fear that Grandpa would find someone else. This was not long after World War 1 and there was a shortage of available young men, particularly a shortage of those who were so financially driven.  My grandmother said she just thought he was really handsome, so agreed to it. I don't know what the age of consent was at that time. My dad was 15 and 1/2 years younger than my grandmother.

So, I guess it was an arranged marriage, but more of an arranged introduction. Both went into it willingly.

Community is so important, and "dating" is a sort of butt-sniffing ritual like business interviews. Neither really obtain the desired result.

I honestly haven't thought much about it for years, because I married WAY out of my league and am just smitten. Or whipped. Or whatever, it's probably accurate.

And now I am seeing my kids getting into that age range... So now I need to think about it, which means to think about why I was a part of what is clearly a crappy idea. I wasn't really abnormal I don't think. I was not the most popular kid or an outcast, maybe more on the popular side as a jock. I knew it was a crappy idea at the time, a massive time and money suck, and honestly worse for the girls than for me. The girls knew it too! I willfully was a part of it, and I am sure I contributed to the image that it was the thing to do, because the idea relies on mass effect. It was just culturally what we did, what we were told was the way to find relationships. There wasn't really another option proposed by the culture.

I know people like Nicole who were involved in church primarily (if they were being honest) because it was a good ratio or a good pool of demographically similar people. How is that less artificial? I'm not being a jerk, I now attend a church and consider that a big reason I look back on my "dating years" with disgust, because that was about me, my needs, with little regard for others. Attending church for the same reason is a corruption of the whole point of the religion. Nietzsche referred to it as the "slave ethic", compared with the "will to power". Humility is a prerequisite for relationship, but neediness is not humility.  Plus, churches often are conformist, like every other human institution. Not a new problem, James the half-brother of Jesus talks about it in 40AD! Hypocrisy is a game we all play, because it masks our insecurity with pride. Don't go to church because you are needy, go because you are broken. Hope that doesn't offend people.

Relationships are about transformation, not conformation.

Which leads my diatribe into social media. It is the same thing, the bar/club scene is dying. The millennials are not even meeting real human people at all. Statistics are shocking! The new bar scene is Tinder, which doesn't even pretend to be more than a meat market. Less alcohol involved (which seems fantastic), but even less chance of substantive interaction. I actually met my wife at a bar, which is hilarious to people who know us now. Neither one of us drinks heavily, or ever has really, so there was at least a minute chance of lasting relationship. Tinder is a chance for a lasting STD, and that's about it.

The younger people (and I work with them every day) know this is a crappy state of play, but the numbers are astonishing. They do it because humans are insecure, and there is a sense of security in crowds. There are very few who are self-actualized enough to go outside the cultural norm. The few who do often get drawn into one of the counter cultural equivalents, another group they can conform to. It is human nature.

So how to break out? Aside from Dale's international adventures, this was sort of an advice forum. I think my advice to 25 year old me would have been to opt out- spend time outside your peer group. Have something you spend time doing that exposes you to multigenerational perspective. I don't know what that looks like for everyone. The chance of meeting a suitable partner is way better from someone's mom you met packing bags at a homeless shelter (happened to a friend of mine) or from someone's grandfather at church - not the "single's group" (ditto). This is the opposite of "game". Do things that there is nothing in it for you. This is not the resume-building BS that people are doing now candystriping at a nonprofit (one of the countercultural equivalents), do stuff that makes you interact with no apparent gain. But interact with people that are wiser than you and have more life experience.

That is a way of gaining resiliency and flexibility, and that is a powerful thing we all look for in a partner.

Tj Jefferson wrote:
I know people like Nicole who were involved in church primarily (if they were being honest) because it was a good ratio or a good pool of demographically similar people.

I just thought I should clarify. I was not at church to find a spouse. I was there to grow deeper in my relationship with Jesus, and wasn't even interested in finding a significant other at the time. BUT, I do know quite a few people who came to church just to meet a girl, and then stopped coming when that failed. I wanted very much to make sure that if I met someone, they weren't just interested in meeting ladies. The biggest turn off for me was seeing that someone was doing something JUST to be with me. I didn't want to be with someone who came to church just because of me, or pretended to like something just to be with me (had another dude spend a ton of time on a whale watching observation deck just because I was there--he hated being there, but pretended to love it to get me to like him. That was a BIG "turn-off.")

So, yeah, like TJ said, join something you love, that's important, that helps others, that you learn something in. Do it for those reasons. Be an awesome person, and if you find a significant other while doing so, awesome!