How to meet girls. Things every young guy should know.

Pearl Sutton wrote:

There is a famous saying "Men give love to get sex, and women give sex to get love." It's pretty accurate, there was a study done years ago (I learned of it in college in the early 80's, so before then.) Would you accept a marriage where there was no sex, all the love, affection, caring, kids, etc everything else you want, but no sex, for the rest of your life? Over 90% of males said no. Around 85% of women said yes. That's a deep thought to consider.

Pearl, I agreed with your whole post except this (for me).  I'm definitely in the minority with the 15% who would say hell no to the no sex thing.  But the talking and other stuff you mentioned make me want this so it all goes hand in hand for me.

I do peruse the Permaculture Singles section from time to time to see what the kids are up to.  One thing I see that bugs me is a long post by a lady about herself and what she's looking for followed up by a response from a suitor to the effect of "Hi. I’m very interested in you."  Wow, that must really get her motor purring.  Come on guy, you can do better than that.  

Mike Jay wrote:I do peruse the Permaculture Singles section from time to time to see what the kids are up to.  One thing I see that bugs me is a long post by a lady about herself and what she's looking for followed up by a response from a suitor to the effect of "Hi. I’m very interested in you."  Wow, that must really get her motor purring.  Come on guy, you can do better than that.  

Yeah, we love that.  ;)

Sonja Draven wrote:

Mike Jay wrote:I do peruse the Permaculture Singles section from time to time to see what the kids are up to.  One thing I see that bugs me is a long post by a lady about herself and what she's looking for followed up by a response from a suitor to the effect of "Hi. I’m very interested in you."  Wow, that must really get her motor purring.  Come on guy, you can do better than that.  

Yeah, we love that.  ;)

This is one of the reasons that the Singles forum is generally moderated a lot less strictly than the rest of the forum. We want people to be able to see when someone trying to get to know them is "not nice," so we usually leave their not-nice posts visible, as well as their marvelous, "hey u look hot" posts.

We've all seen well-written ads and we've all seen very poor ones. But I know that if for some reason, somebody just can't find anybody in the world who is suitable for them, the problem does not lie with the writers of these ads or with any of the other people they encounter whether online or in person.

A problem like that seems like it must come from within. Whether it's insecurities or unrealistic expectation, or apathy. I don't think we can blame other people for this.
.......
In casting the wide net that I have, I think I've encountered dozens and maybe hundreds of women that I could be happy with. Really happy if it was one giant harem, but seriously, I really think I have encountered many. But that's because I'm open to being happy and I don't look to someone else to make me happy or to blame if I'm not. When two people who've got it together and are already reasonably happy, manage to find one another, then things are bound to improve for both of them.

That's actually one of the big criteria for me, when I'm searching. I have to ask myself would a permanent relationship with this woman make me happy, and would it be in her best interest? Would it greatly improve her life, to be with me? With these foreign sites, quite often the answer is yes, just because of economics, so I have to be very cautious in that regard.

During the short time when I was pouring through tons of messages, it became obvious that many of these women have encountered men of low character. Broken engagements, husbands who ran off as well as a few foreign men who have made big promises that they didn't deliver on. So, in some cases I've tried to keep it quite casual, as I said I was new to the site and just looking around. But really it was a process of elimination, and you don't want to necessarily let someone know that you were highly interested in them but now you've decided to eliminate them. This pretending to be a looky-loo, was somewhat deceptive, but I couldn't see any way around it. I really didn't like the idea of coming clean, telling a girl she's reached the top 10, so she's got a 90% chance of being eliminated. When it comes down to mathematics it really looks harsh. But every one of these women wants you to choose one and to not mess around with the others after you do that.

And it seems quite odd that we men have that ability, to choose one. Of course it has to be one of the ones that are interested in us, but the numbers give us that huge advantage.

The woman that I've settled on, if all goes well, has been worried from the very beginning that I will be lured away by another pretty face. It's really the only serious issue we've had so far. Her inability to accept that I can turn a blind eye to the millions of other pretty girls out there in internet land. She keeps comparing herself to others who's criteria for a husband comes close to matching who I am. And she wonders out loud, how it is that she made it to the top of my list. I've given her as many reasons as I can think of, but she still questions it, I think because she's been involved in those forms the women get on, where they talk about all of the issues they have with dating, and the fact that men find it very easy to replace any woman that gives them trouble. But I am not looking to replace her. She would have to give me an amazing amount of trouble, for me to start thinking that. I think it all comes down to insecurities, since she was abandoned after a three-year engagement. I told her that we need to get together in person, hopefully by Christmas time and then come to a decision. No 3 Year Engagement. She goes from being very happy about this, to extremely apprehensive. And she's not wondering whether she will like me, she seems to think that I will somehow discover some horrible fault, when we meet in person. I just hope she doesn't want to postpone it forever.

I just had an awful thought, what if she reads this stuff and decides that it was inappropriate material for discussion? I guess I would just explain that I'm very open about many things. But still I could catch shit for this. Time will tell.

I just read this whole thread... great topic! Both this one and the womens version which I hope to make use of. Having said that, from my perspective as a single woman in her late 30s, here are my thoughts:

1. If you approach her, whether in person or online, do NOT do the "hey how are you" approach. Bring up a topic of conversation. Pique her interest. The truth is, women are generally told all over the place how attractive they are and it sounds like a load of tired BS. But if you engage her brain... that's when you become memorable and not just one of a bunch of other nameless dudes trying to get her attention.

2. I agree on the photos thing. Photos that showcase your physicality are great - as long as that's not the focus of the photo. I dabble in online dating and I never even bother clicking on the ones with the shirtless bathroom selfie. Because - if that's the main thing you feel that is attractive about you, that's not very attractive and not what I'm after.

3. Consider your bait. Which kind of goes into my above point but what I mean is this - If you want quality women, you need to be quality yourself and you need to present yourself as quality. I've had messages and interactions with countless personality-lacking "bros" in online dating and they are all the same. But, at the same time, in talking to some men I know who use online dating they say they get the most responses from the random "hey how are you" approach. However, those responses aren't always the quality they are looking for. I don't know if that makes sense. But either way, just consider that you're using yourself as bait to attract your ideal woman, so make sure that you fit her idea of what an ideal man is.

4. Fill out your profile. Seriously guys, it's not hard to write a couple paragraphs about yourself. Especially for someone like me, I'm on my land, running a business, raising kids - I don't have time to converse with a hundred different guys just to see on a very basic level if we'd be compatible or not. Don't do the whole "if you want to know, just ask." That puts the onus on her to draw the information out of you and sets a precedent of non-initiative-taking. Take the initiative, fill out the profile.

5. Be picky. Use discretion and don't try to compromise on those things that are really important to you. Do you have a dealbreaker? OWN it. No compromises on those things. Compromise happens after the wedding, but when you're choosing a mate you shouldn't compromise on what you want.

6. On the flipside, you need to present yourself accurately. I was married for a decade to someone who presented himself VERY differently before marriage and the truth came out post marriage. I know, we all tend to try to hide our bad sides and present our positive characteristics, and that is a natural human thing. However, if you look down the road you will see that if you are presenting a different image than the person you truly are, the only possible outcome is heartbreak. Yeah, you might get the girl temporarily, but it will most likely end painfully at some point. Just don't do it. Be honest about yourself, your WHOLE self.

I think that's all I have for tonight. Will be thinking about this thread though... great discussion!

Nicole Alderman wrote:Sometimes, perhaps, Dale's writing comes off sounding to some people like he might be a "jerk." Sometimes I wondered this myself... And then he went out of his way, to a country far away, to work his butt off for a moderator who had just lost her husband.

Here's a thread detailing all that https://permies.com/t/85903/permaculture-projects/work-Burra-place-visiting-Portugal

Actions speak louder than words. "Game" or not, Dale has a great heart. Some of us may not like "game"--but that doesn't mean it's wrong, and there are probably ladies that DO like "game" and one of them might be the perfect lady for Dale. I hope so. Dale's a great guy!

Dale is one of those characters who very much marches to the beat of his own drum.  When he first joined here, he was a nightmare to moderate but when he understood the aims and working of the site he tempered his writing to be within publishing standards, just...  Over the years we've developed a deep mutual respect and when he travelled so far to help me when I was at my weakest and most vulnerable he was so much more than just the perfect gentleman - supportive, helpful, insightful, to both me and my son, and helped to pull me back up to some kind of functionality and start getting my place back under control, always assessing everything that was happening, choosing where best to use his skills and energies, and always talking everything through with me before actually doing anything to make sure I was in full agreement and felt in control.  

Yes, he might come over as arrogant in some of his writing, but he's too honest to temper his speech to suit the faint of heart.  He's a very real man sharing his own very real ideas in his own way.  I have utmost respect for that and I think a lot of us could learn that just because someone doesn't view the world as we do that doesn't mean that they don't have a ton of stuff to teach us.  

As for choosing partners, I do now have a new partner, though it's very early days yet.  Did I follow any of the advice in this or the sister thread?  Nope, I just chose my oldest and most trusted friend, who was still single after all these years, and basically said 'You 'n me - how about it?'  Which I guess means that if you just keep being yourself, there's a chance that, eventually, the girl will find you!  Course by then she probably doesn't really qualify as 'girl' any more, but hey...

Thank you, for the kind words Burra, and congratulations on finding your way forward, with a new love. It's so easy to become stuck, after experiencing a loss.

It's really unusual for me, to have anyone come to my defense. I came to learn, a long time ago, that some people will appreciate what I've got to say, and some won't even try. I often think I'm being thorough, and in the process cover so many points, that it doesn't leave many for the next speaker, without covering some of the same ground. I could see how this would become irritating. It's something I have to be careful of when conversing with the woman in my life. And it's something I use as a verbal weapon, if I'm arguing with some guy about something. I try to anticipate his next thought and take a sledgehammer to his idea before it is presented. I suppose it could be considered not nice, and it's preemptively not nice, my way of not having to listen to the side of an argument that I consider silly.

That works in a debate, but not in a relationship. So, for me, when I'm talking to a woman I care about, I have to remind myself why we might be talking about something, and I don't think it should ever be, so that I can deliver a smackdown win for my side of the debating team.

I've had personal situations where my truthiness or cocksureness or whatever you want to call it, becomes a point of contention. I've been told that I don't know sweet fuck all, but then with no examples given, not one thing in particular that's bothering her. It's just that she knows that if she has some complaint, I've already got a dozen different responses ready. So she feels managed. People don't like to be managed. And people like to be right sometimes. I've had that issue with my brothers. I remember one time, my brother Robin was going on about something, and my mother saw that I was ready to pounce. She said, just leave it, Robin likes to be right about something sometimes. And that's one of the few times I can ever remember, not wiping the floor with whatever my less articulate younger brother had to say. It was hard biting my tongue.

This forum is meant to be for discussion, and not debate, but that can be like trying to determine the difference between two varieties of white paint. I see it as a management tool, this trying to determine which post are debating or not.

So, I think we need to get back to trying to get some young fellows laid. And for the benefit of anyone who has a problem with that, we're going to try to get him humping the love of his life! I think that's a reasonable compromise, when you consider what boys want and what girls want.:-)

I've only skimmed this but here is some advice from a 24 year old woman.
Before finding my partner I did all my own labour (obviously) and would be described as extremely liberated. In any group of friends I would be described as the 'mom friend' but I actually think I fulfill more of a single parent role as I'm defiantly dad and mom.                I will be gentle and caring with people but will 100%  lead them off on an adventure just out of their comfort zone. I will host the wildest party but will also go round dorms in the morning delivering organic smoothies to those I know will have hang overs.   I'll organise a massive vegan dinner and use dumpster dived food and invite meat eaters and those who are a little freaked out by the whole thing but they will come along and try because they know I'd never treat them with any malice. I will take city people on hikes and gather herbs to dry or seafood to bbq.                                                                                                 I am currently doing a masters in mining engineering and I met my partner during my undergraduate degree.
I usually don't need help with anything but if people want to call past and help me and chat while I can apple sauce or sew or do homework or carve a spoon then there's always a teapot on the stove ready for them.

When I met my partner He was extremely well built and also doing mining engineering.
We both volunteered to be on the charity committee and had a fundraiser early in the morning. I'm never late to things so when I didn't show up someone called me and it turned out I had woken up with such a bad leg cramp I literally couldn't get out of bed. My partner who I didn't really know at the time volunteered to help me... Climbed up the front of the building and came in via the window as my door was locked and I was writhing in agony.  He was physically able to do this easily and I was very grestdul. He stretched my calf out and we went on with our day.
A few weeks of being friends later I simply said I was booking a cheap trip to Iceland to look at geology and viking history. Anyone else who was keen could book a ticket too but I was cool with going on my own. He booked a ticket too and 5 years later the rest is history.

We work on farms together in our spare time and have our own little plot. He can lift heavier things than I can but I didn't require it of him. I don't have a list of jobs for him to complete. If he does things for me I know he's doing it because he wants to because he thinks I'm great and not because of a weird contract where he does diy and I cook and have sex with him.
When he looks after me it is because we are friends and equals, not to validate his masculinity and Lord it over me.
When he isn't around I still haul water etc and when I'm not around he still bakes sour dough bread and dries herbs. He is a muscular bearded miner and is secure enough in himself that he doesn't need to dominate those around him. People are drawn to him.
I'm secure enough in myself that I don't need to feel provided for. I just need him to give freely, as I do.

From experience all of my female friends want to find a relationship like the one we have and are simply searching for someone like him but of all his qualities they are least interested in the muscular part and more in his attitude that holds me as a true equal.  

For a long time, I was not seeking any sort of long lasting or permanent type relationship. But this doesn't mean I became a monk. Instead, I pursued women, with whom I knew there was no chance of a future. But there's a problem with that. Women don't like to be put in that category, being good enough for right now, but not really a keeper. In fact, once they realize that, things can go sour very quickly.

I think if you look at most friends with benefits situations, it's not actually a mutual thing. It's not like both people said to themselves, I'd like to have a boyfriend or girlfriend, but I really just want to keep it at that and not complicate my life. I think it's mostly driven by one of them, and usually that's the male in the relationship. He enjoys having this relationship, but perhaps he wants to keep his options open, or he feels he could do better, if he really set his mind to it.

It's only in the last year, that I decided not to pursue women with whom I had no serious intention. Some of my friends thought I had lost my game. Passing up opportunities that present themselves to every man who is paying attention. Some people, like my mother, thought this was a great idea. It's about time. A few friends thought so too. But there were five different women who seem to feel very threatened by the whole idea of me finding a lifelong partner. My ex-wife, my two daughters, and two former girlfriends.

I think my ex-wife felt threatened on many levels. For her it was mostly about embarrassment. She'd be very embarrassed, for her friends to find out that her ex-husband has taken up with a woman half his age. And then there was the financial threat of my assets being divided more than two ways. After more than 20 years apart, she still seemed to think that she should have some sort of veto power. I received many calls and messages, telling me not to continue.

Both of my daughters are grown and self-supporting, with good careers. They don't need to be raised. And we get along well. I see them both at least twice a week. I'm looking after my older daughter's dog right now while she is visiting her fiance in Seattle, and today I had lunch with my youngest and later we went to the gym. And that's how they like it. Their dad is very fun, and always available. They get along really well with each other, so there's no jealousy there. But they don't want some bitch squeezing her way into this. Because it's just fine the way it is. Just fine for them. They really liked my completely non-threatening girlfriend from a few years ago. One with whom I saw no future. But the idea of me actually getting married and making the real changes necessary to accommodate that, is something they're not totally pleased with. But most importantly, they find it distressing that I'm able to find women much younger than myself. And they find the idea of me having another child, absolutely abhorrent. But still, both are aware that I can't be managed and that I will do whatever I do.

I had a friendly rapport with two ex-girlfriends. Actually it was one ex-girlfriend and one ex- friends with benefits. Both of them would have preferred to not be exes. But all was fine with them, until they learned what I was up to. The ex-girlfriend, who I lived with for 3 years, has decided that I never really liked her and that her weight gain was the main reason why. We were happily, not dating anymore, so I didn't think I'd ever have to deal with her insecurities again, but my finding someone less than half her age, bothers her to no end. She's been going to a counselor and apparently that's one of the main things they talk about.

The ex friends with benefits lady, was probably never completely happy with that arrangement. But all was fine, until she learned of the young woman in my life. I've received some nasty text messages, detailing how it feels to be rejected and then replaced by a much newer model. But she knows that's not what happened. I wasn't going out with her and then suddenly ran in a different direction. We we were apart for quite a while, before I made my decision to not pursue that type of relationship anymore. But, being angry about it seems to be good for her self-esteem somehow, so I have let her chew a chunk out of me on a few occasions.

In both cases, I thought I was free and clear. I didn't think there'd be any rehashing of issues or anything else. But maybe that's because I'm a man.

So, when I do eventually end up married and living with my new wife, I think I will try to avoid any and all interaction with ex's, including my ex-wife.

My kids will come around on their own. They've already started. They really didn't give the woman in Kenya a chance, over some fairly superficial judgements they made. But both seem to have nothing to dislike this time, and they have both known enough Filipinos, that they have a positive bias toward them. So, for now I'm not telling them anything. All they know is that I have found nice lady that I want to go and visit in the near future. They are both so relieved after my last relationship ended, and they really don't want to hear any more about it, unless I'm actually getting married.

So that's how my week has been.

Cross-posting this from the "How to meet men, things every young woman should know." forum:

I am older now, but when I was more interested in dating, I had trouble reading the reactions of the ladies I was meeting. I still do.

At some point, I just gave up trying and I assume now that I will always be single.

Not much to go on as far as advice goes, but perhaps someone has some insights about how to gauge if there is any reciprocal interest, or whether the person is just naturally friendly.

With women, I think it's mostly about body language and movements. There's online resources that can help you with this. If she leans forward while you are talking, that's a good sign, if she makes adjustments to enhance her own appearance, that's a good sign. If she touches you in any way, weather it just be your hand or her hand on your shoulder or leg if you're sitting, that's a good sign. If she smiles constantly, that's good too.  If she laughs at funny things, that's good. If she laughs for no particular reason, this might mean she's nuts, but it could also just mean that she's nervous, because she's not sure of your intentions and hoping that you're headed in a certain direction. There must be a million more.

Somebody must have written a book on this stuff.

Even if she smacks you, that can be a good sign. I don't mean to knockout punch. I mean that you've told a dirty joke or tried some other risque move, and she gives you a little punch in the shoulder but then remains there with a smile on her face, waiting to see if you've got any more. I was at the Victoria Day Parade and had some fun looking at the marching bands from a distance, and predicting whether they would be from Canada or the US, based on how rotund the children were. The lady I was talking to punched me in the shoulder and said I was terrible. But she didn't run off, we chatted about lots of other things. I've had many instances like this where I produce a piece of shock humor, which she may find funny, but doesn't necessarily want to be seen laughing about that particular topic.

The number one way to know that you are getting somewhere, is if she will go somewhere with you. And I don't mean that you're going to drag her off to bed. I mean something as simple as, getting off of the stone wall you're sitting on at the public event, because a nice bench just came available. If it was a random meeting and you're both sitting on or leaning against that wall, and she agrees that walking to that bench and sitting down with you is a good idea, you are in my friend. It could even be something that happens in a coffee shop or restaurant. Suppose you meet right under those big irritating speakers. You don't have to stand there and yell at her for 10 minutes. You say, there's a good spot! Let's grab it. Assumed consent, based on the shortage of tables that someone else may grab if you don't act now. Any woman that is interested in you, will take that little trip with you. And if she was just chatting to be nice, she will excuse herself and be gone.

This one is pure genius and is one I came up with on my own. Use it wisely.

I was seated in a public place near an attractive woman. But she was busy on the phone and doing some sort of paperwork. So I left my phone plugged in and went to get a drink. While I was away, an alarm went off in my phone. The moment I returned, the lady told me that I had missed an alarm. Thank you, that was my reminder that I have to talk to that pretty lady beside me, but she seems busy, so I think I'll just wait. You don't seem so busy right now. :-)

She turned out to be attached, but was still quite smiley about the whole thing and thought that it was a rather ingenious and bold move.

Use it wisely.

You can also get your friend to call you and put your phone on speaker. When he says what are you doing, you tell him I'm just trying to get up the nerve to talk to this really nice woman that sitting to my left. What's the worst that could happen?

Presently single...so maybe I don't know what I'm talking about. Probably not.
Be that as it may, of course I have something to say. My first and last foray into dating online was on farmers only - Lord. I don't drink either, like someone else posted, and it was impossible to find someone else in recovery (hint) or a least just an occasional beer guy that was really into farming and not a farmer-wanna-be. So I concluded I'm an anomaly and left it at that.

I pay attention to how a gentleman treats others, specifically wait staff. Let's say you go for lunch and he's attentive and interested in you, and you're getting on quite well. Then the server comes up with coffee/tea/whatever, and he doesn't look up and thank them. Or orders without acknowledging them, or is dismissive. oh noooo...and if he's a lousy tipper, that says it all. If a man isn't kind to someone serving him, that speaks to what he thinks of others, and that he thinks he's above certain occupations. I waitressed for years and you learn a lot about people.

Does he do things like help cut a tree limb that's fallen across someone's driveway, help pull somebody out of the mud, shovel a neighbors driveway, or help a buddy fix his tractor?

Is he HILARIOUS?

I've had two husbands and have spent almost 30 years married I do have an idea about what's important to me today.

I forgot to mention something very important. My friends and I seem to be in agreement on this, and that's that so many men don't have any interest in who we are at all. As long as we're listening, we could be anyone. I don't want to hear someone's life story without one single question asked about mine. What is that?? I've had more men trot out their resume and have shown no interest in me or who I am whatsoever.

Dale Hodgins wrote:We've all seen well-written ads and we've all seen very poor ones. But I know that if for some reason, somebody just can't find anybody in the world who is suitable for them, the problem does not lie with the writers of these ads or with any of the other people they encounter whether online or in person.

A problem like that seems like it must come from within. Whether it's insecurities or unrealistic expectation, or apathy. I don't think we can blame other people for this.
.......
In casting the wide net that I have, I think I've encountered dozens and maybe hundreds of women that I could be happy with. Really happy if it was one giant harem, but seriously, I really think I have encountered many. But that's because I'm open to being happy and I don't look to someone else to make me happy or to blame if I'm not. When two people who've got it together and are already reasonably happy, manage to find one another, then things are bound to improve for both of them.

That's actually one of the big criteria for me, when I'm searching. I have to ask myself would a permanent relationship with this woman make me happy, and would it be in her best interest? Would it greatly improve her life, to be with me? With these foreign sites, quite often the answer is yes, just because of economics, so I have to be very cautious in that regard.

During the short time when I was pouring through tons of messages, it became obvious that many of these women have encountered men of low character. Broken engagements, husbands who ran off as well as a few foreign men who have made big promises that they didn't deliver on. So, in some cases I've tried to keep it quite casual, as I said I was new to the site and just looking around. But really it was a process of elimination, and you don't want to necessarily let someone know that you were highly interested in them but now you've decided to eliminate them. This pretending to be a looky-loo, was somewhat deceptive, but I couldn't see any way around it. I really didn't like the idea of coming clean, telling a girl she's reached the top 10, so she's got a 90% chance of being eliminated. When it comes down to mathematics it really looks harsh. But every one of these women wants you to choose one and to not mess around with the others after you do that.

And it seems quite odd that we men have that ability, to choose one. Of course it has to be one of the ones that are interested in us, but the numbers give us that huge advantage.

The woman that I've settled on, if all goes well, has been worried from the very beginning that I will be lured away by another pretty face. It's really the only serious issue we've had so far. Her inability to accept that I can turn a blind eye to the millions of other pretty girls out there in internet land. She keeps comparing herself to others who's criteria for a husband comes close to matching who I am. And she wonders out loud, how it is that she made it to the top of my list. I've given her as many reasons as I can think of, but she still questions it, I think because she's been involved in those forms the women get on, where they talk about all of the issues they have with dating, and the fact that men find it very easy to replace any woman that gives them trouble. But I am not looking to replace her. She would have to give me an amazing amount of trouble, for me to start thinking that. I think it all comes down to insecurities, since she was abandoned after a three-year engagement. I told her that we need to get together in person, hopefully by Christmas time and then come to a decision. No 3 Year Engagement. She goes from being very happy about this, to extremely apprehensive. And she's not wondering whether she will like me, she seems to think that I will somehow discover some horrible fault, when we meet in person. I just hope she doesn't want to postpone it forever.

I just had an awful thought, what if she reads this stuff and decides that it was inappropriate material for discussion? I guess I would just explain that I'm very open about many things. But still I could catch shit for this. Time will tell.

I had my reply all typed out and bumped the wrong key, losing it all. I'll take that as a sign.
I'll qualify first and say that I'm ridiculously healthy, and have an opinion (not an observation - a very different thing) about the woman you've "settled on". Dear God man, run. Fast. She may be a perfectly lovely person but is riddled with insecurities that you will spend many hours of the precious time you have left on this earth trying to soothe. She is already questioning why you chose her?? Oh, dear, she was abandoned after a 3 year engagement? Aw, poor thing. Certainly that is enough to wear the badge of woundedness for oh, let's say her lifetime. Until you work really hard to make it all better.
Which you'll never be able to do, because while she may have periods of soundness of mind, she will dig that sucker out of the knapsack she keeps concealed behind her back and whack you in the head with it.
She apparently has no self esteem whatsoever, which is very sad. Please keep searching and don't settle. Ever.

Cross posting from the other forum on this topic.

This has been an interesting thread, but for me, it all adds up to the realization that it is just too much work to maintain develop and maintain that level of intimacy.
I'm happy enough being single and I don't really feel the need for constant companionship.
Most of the time, I am quite comfortable with celibacy, and not really into all the work it takes to attempt a one-night stand.
I figure it's just nature's way of letting me do my part for ZPG and to combat climate change.
Seems to me that our society is way too concerned with proving ourselves sexually.
Sex has been weaponized and marketed as a sales tool: Attractiveness is a way of objectifying human interactions and just another way to manipulate people into buying more unneeded junk.
It's probably one of the biggest reasons the world is in such difficult straits in terms of inter-personal violence, resource use, and Climate Change: There's just too many people competing for too few resources.

Leslie Russell wrote:

Dale Hodgins wrote:We've all seen well-written ads and we've all seen very poor ones. But I know that if for some reason, somebody just can't find anybody in the world who is suitable for them, the problem does not lie with the writers of these ads or with any of the other people they encounter whether online or in person.

A problem like that seems like it must come from within. Whether it's insecurities or unrealistic expectation, or apathy. I don't think we can blame other people for this.
.......
In casting the wide net that I have, I think I've encountered dozens and maybe hundreds of women that I could be happy with. Really happy if it was one giant harem, but seriously, I really think I have encountered many. But that's because I'm open to being happy and I don't look to someone else to make me happy or to blame if I'm not. When two people who've got it together and are already reasonably happy, manage to find one another, then things are bound to improve for both of them.

That's actually one of the big criteria for me, when I'm searching. I have to ask myself would a permanent relationship with this woman make me happy, and would it be in her best interest? Would it greatly improve her life, to be with me? With these foreign sites, quite often the answer is yes, just because of economics, so I have to be very cautious in that regard.

During the short time when I was pouring through tons of messages, it became obvious that many of these women have encountered men of low character. Broken engagements, husbands who ran off as well as a few foreign men who have made big promises that they didn't deliver on. So, in some cases I've tried to keep it quite casual, as I said I was new to the site and just looking around. But really it was a process of elimination, and you don't want to necessarily let someone know that you were highly interested in them but now you've decided to eliminate them. This pretending to be a looky-loo, was somewhat deceptive, but I couldn't see any way around it. I really didn't like the idea of coming clean, telling a girl she's reached the top 10, so she's got a 90% chance of being eliminated. When it comes down to mathematics it really looks harsh. But every one of these women wants you to choose one and to not mess around with the others after you do that.

And it seems quite odd that we men have that ability, to choose one. Of course it has to be one of the ones that are interested in us, but the numbers give us that huge advantage.

The woman that I've settled on, if all goes well, has been worried from the very beginning that I will be lured away by another pretty face. It's really the only serious issue we've had so far. Her inability to accept that I can turn a blind eye to the millions of other pretty girls out there in internet land. She keeps comparing herself to others who's criteria for a husband comes close to matching who I am. And she wonders out loud, how it is that she made it to the top of my list. I've given her as many reasons as I can think of, but she still questions it, I think because she's been involved in those forms the women get on, where they talk about all of the issues they have with dating, and the fact that men find it very easy to replace any woman that gives them trouble. But I am not looking to replace her. She would have to give me an amazing amount of trouble, for me to start thinking that. I think it all comes down to insecurities, since she was abandoned after a three-year engagement. I told her that we need to get together in person, hopefully by Christmas time and then come to a decision. No 3 Year Engagement. She goes from being very happy about this, to extremely apprehensive. And she's not wondering whether she will like me, she seems to think that I will somehow discover some horrible fault, when we meet in person. I just hope she doesn't want to postpone it forever.

I just had an awful thought, what if she reads this stuff and decides that it was inappropriate material for discussion? I guess I would just explain that I'm very open about many things. But still I could catch shit for this. Time will tell.

I had my reply all typed out and bumped the wrong key, losing it all. I'll take that as a sign.
I'll qualify first and say that I'm ridiculously healthy, and have an opinion (not an observation - a very different thing) about the woman you've "settled on". Dear God man, run. Fast. She may be a perfectly lovely person but is riddled with insecurities that you will spend many hours of the precious time you have left on this earth trying to soothe. She is already questioning why you chose her?? Oh, dear, she was abandoned after a 3 year engagement? Aw, poor thing. Certainly that is enough to wear the badge of woundedness for oh, let's say her lifetime. Until you work really hard to make it all better.
Which you'll never be able to do, because while she may have periods of soundness of mind, she will dig that sucker out of the knapsack she keeps concealed behind her back and whack you in the head with it.
She apparently has no self esteem whatsoever, which is very sad. Please keep searching and don't settle. Ever.

I'm definitely not going to dump her over something like this. If I'm with someone, I treat them well, all of the time. And I have no doubt that this past hurt will fade into the background. I've experienced much worse from women. Much much worse. She's not shooting venom or making accusations. She's just a little worried that I might be like the thousands of other foreign guys, who try to set up something with several women at once, to make their trip to the Philippines worth it, if their first choice doesn't pan out. I assured her that I don't intend to do that and it's been a week since those types of worries were brought up. Maybe that's because I've been talking seriously about setting a date for my trip. I've dealt with women who lie to me, who insult me and simply bitched all the time. She has this one insecurity, because of something bad that happened in the recent past. I have assured her that I find her quite attractive and that I have no interest in trying to pursue more than one woman at once.

I asked her recently, if she now thinks that she is pretty enough, and she said that she's very happy that I find her pretty and that makes her feel pretty. She had some insecurities about being only 5 ft tall and 95 lb. This wasn't acceptable to the potential In-laws in the failed relationship. I don't know if they're starting a football team or why this would be such a problem. Because of this problem, I often get her to send me a picture of herself and whatever she's doing, and I tell her how nice she looks in those photos. And I've gone a bit overboard on telling her just how much I don't like obesity. She's so far from obese, that it seems like a safe thing to pick on. But she's not deathly skinny or anything, just someone 5 feet tall who is slim. They have some very strange standards of beauty, that make her nose not quite right and her eyes not quite right and her kinky hair not quite right, and I just don't see any of those things as negatives. I'm guessing that she's a mix of Maylay and Austronesian, so she simply doesn't match the girls in their magazines. I told her that I was raised in a different culture, and my mind hasn't been poisoned by Philippine media, to believe that some women are inherently beautiful, while others are inherently ugly. At the end of several of our conversations, I have asked, how do you feel about how you look today? And she has told me that she now feels very beautiful, and happy that she's the kind of woman I find attractive.

It's been a very odd experience, trying to sell a beautiful young woman on the idea that she is a beautiful young woman.

I used to be a hound, pursuing every second woman I encountered. If things go the way I hope with her, I will use my considerable charm, to always let her know that I find her very attractive. I don't see that as an insurmountable task. It's something I would do even if she had a big birthmark on her face.

So, I'm definitely not going to run. I just hope that she's able to get past it, so that I can go there to meet her in person. Once that happens, I'm quite confident that my powers of seduction will be sufficient to move things forward.

I think once you've settled on someone and you have told them they are the one for you, that's not something that you should just let go of, because there is a minor bump in the road. So, unless some major red flag presents itself, I do intend to go there soon.
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Edit. I know this is a long post but I just thought of the most important thing. It took her a while to reveal to me her deepest fear, which is a fear of abandonment. If I were to cut and run at this point, this would be devastating to her. So, unless she makes it impossible for me to continue, I will go there. Then if it works out, it works out and if it doesn't, it doesn't, but either way she won't have been abandoned again. I can eat that minor cost, if it comes to that, and I'm tough. If it really can't work out I will take my lumps and try again.

Don't be afraid to appeal to a woman's desire for sex. I'm not saying to try to get her into bed the day you meet her, but always let her know that this possibility exists and that you are ready willing and able.

This one isn't so much a way to meet women as, a way to move things forward once it's established that you like each other. If you really do like her, then make it clear that you're going to wait until she's comfortable with it, and then you intend to ravish her.

Here's a big don't. Don't get involved with women who fall far outside of what you are naturally attracted to.

If you like them chubby, don't look for a skinny girl because that's what your friends think you should have. And if you like girls who are smart, don't go for some dummy who is sexy, or who satisfies some other less important requirement.

If you have some particular type, or fetish or whatever they call it these days, don't pursue women who fall far outside of your taste.

I don't care if a woman has boobs the size of the walnut or the size of my head, but some guys are really fixated on stuff like that. If that's you, then try to find a woman who has those attributes that you're fixated on. I also don't care what color she is , or how tall. But I absolutely know that I don't like obesity, or a girl who is naturally shaped like a potato, no matter what her weight is. So I would be doing a disservice to myself and to any fat woman that I try to put the moves on. This isn't what I really want, so I shouldn't do that, just because the opportunity presents itself.

There are guys who really only want a tall blonde girl, but they will take what they can get and never really be satisfied with that. Others seriously prefer women outside of their race, or age group. Whatever it is that turns your crank, pursue those women. Don't go after whatever is easily available, and then treat them poorly because they are not your heart's desire.

Edit. I've always told myself that I don't have a particular type, and I suppose that's true in some ways. But then when I look at the women that I've been most smitten by, all were quite Exotic as compared do my mother and sisters. I married a tall, slim East Indian woman when I was 22. We got divorced for reasons that were nothing to do with her appearance. The only other time I've come close to marriage, was with an incredibly voluptuous Kenyan woman who possessed enough Tand A to outfit at least four average women. But that didn't work out, and now I've found a beautiful little Filipina woman. These women look nothing alike, but the one thing they have in common is that they don't look like me or anyone who is related to me. So this tells me that I'm not someone who should pursue white women with red hair and freckles, like my sister Heidi, who is a perfectly suitable female specimen, just not for me.

Thank you Dale for all your wisdom and sharing such an important and auspicious time in your life. I have really enjoyed hearing all your anecdotes and the process of choosing a life partner. I find it very refreshing to hear a no holds barred account of what is involved in finding a potential partner in another country. I have a great relationship with my wife of 19 years, two sons and have been fortunate never to have been divorced but things could change and I will tuck this knowledge away as a potential what if.... I just wanted to say that I really admire your ability to be comfortable in who you are and your self worth, your strong ethical morals and decency. I wish there were more men like you because there are so many men that drag our gender through the mud and give us all a bad name. I am kind of glad I don’t have any daughters sometimes. So the best of luck and fortune to the pair of you and I hope you find each other worthy and enjoy a long happy life together. Thank you for all the time and energy that you have put into writing this exciting adventure and enjoy the process!
Just a thought if she does ever winter over in Canada tell her about seasonal affective disorder if she starts getting depressed. Coming to Vancouver from somewhere much sunnier it was a real shock and I found light therapy a life saver. It’s easy enough to sit with my blue light for fifteen minutes while I eat my breakfast and this made a huge difference. However, spending three months of the year in the Philippines sounds like a winning strategy to me but I do like skiing at that time of year so it’s not all bad!

Thank you, Cameron. But I'm not as innocent as you may think.

I have done plenty to drag our gender down, mostly by getting involved with women where for me it was just a casual thing and then it got weird, when they wanted much more than I was willing to give. This basically happened because I was always busy and taking the path of least resistance, by pursuing any woman who showed an interest in me. I'd tell myself, Kathy seems nice, I suppose I could give her a thrill. But when The Thrill Is Gone, it can be really gone. Then you're left with somebody who has agreed to something that you have not agreed to.

I have thought about the cold weather thing quite a bit. Her only experience with cold, is food that is taken out of the freezer, and ice in a drink. Sometimes, when there's a typhoon, the temperature can get down into the sixties on the Fahrenheit scale. So no real experience with cold. I want to experience less cold. If this goes ahead, I will purchase a farm close to her parents and brothers, and I will start a fish farm or some other agricultural operation that I will personally run from mid-november until the end of February. That's the slow season for almost everything I do.

I don't need to see another Canadian winter. This would bring her home for the Christmas season, every year. To me, Christmas is one day where I listen to my brothers complain about problems of their own creation. For her it's the happiest time of the year.

You can hire qualified labor in the Philippines for $5 a day. I don't think I would ever let my compressed earth block machine stop working. When I run out of need for blocks, I guess I'd be providing blocks for the new school or the new church. There are dozens of other things I can imagine doing with cheap labor. But I will never be the guy who has poor people knocking on his door, to tell me about their latest medical ailment or other reason why they need my money, without doing that work. That would have to be an immediate family sort of thing, only. You can't save the world on your own.

She has some very legitimate fears concerning her parents well being in the future. The biggest one is that the home that her father built a long time ago, is nearing the end. It's pretty old for a bamboo structure. She doesn't think he could build another house on his own, but her brothers live nearby and have always helped the parents with things like this. After building a typhoon shelter, I think it would be a good idea to replace that house with something made of reinforced block, with a quality metal roof. She has explain to me why this shouldn't happen in the near future and it all has to do with issues of pride and not wanting to imply that her father has not provided adequately for the family. So that will be something that has to be worked around. I know I'm getting ahead of myself, in that regard anyway.

But wherever I end up moving during the winter months, I do intend to get involved in whatever alternative building system makes sense, based on available resources and labour.

We have talked quite a bit about the idea that we are not going to be the saviors of the entire village. She assured me that she believes that the husband should be in charge of all financial matters. Great. But I can see that changing with time. Particularly with time spent in North America. She has a very traditional way of looking at the division of labor and duties between the sexes. It would be my job to build a home, and her job to help with the things she can, but mostly keeping me and any hired help, supplied with food. That's what they do when groups of hired farm hands show up to prepare the rice paddies at the beginning of the planting season and again when others show up for harvest. The number one point of contention with my African girlfriend, was that she was very clear in her desire to rule the roost. To not just be involved in every decision, but to have veto power. I don't see any of this tendency with my Filipino girlfriend. In fact, I suspect that I would have to push her toward being a little more assertive, just so that she could be effective in helping to manage employees. I can tell that she would never be the one to send out to fire someone who is useless. She just doesn't have that in her. We talked about that, and she thought that I should maybe try to find a different job for someone who has proved completely useless at three different tasks that I have already tried them on.

It's been a little bit difficult for me to squeeze certain opinions out of her. She has very definite opinions on drug addiction, gambling, whoring and other ills of society. But when it comes to talking about future financial plans or even something as simple as do you think a house should have this type of room or that type of room, she's completely deferential. I know enough married guys to know that that changes with time.
.........
Here's a point for both men and women. Find out if a potential partner likes the idea of defined gender roles. To some women, from very traditional societies like this island in the Philippines, that's just the way it is, and the way it always should be. I have met women in Canada who after only a couple weeks, would like to tell me how to conduct my business and my life. For me that's part of the appeal of going somewhere different. I'm a man, so I Like a Man In Charge sort of arrangement. Some would call this patriarchal and then call me an asshole, which is fine. I think our opinions on that sort of thing make a great filter. I'm not interested in a woman who wants to be the man in a relationship, and I'm sure that the majority of women don't want somebody like me in charge. That's okay, I don't have enough time left to have a relationship with the majority of women.

As best I can ascertain, her father was a benevolent dictator, and the rest of the family fell into line. I am quite evolved, by that standard, although here in Canada, I might be confused for a caveman. So, I don't anticipate any huge cultural clash, like everybody I know has already warned me about. I don't fit in here, so not fitting in there, wouldn't be a huge adjustment. I'm going to be me wherever I go. Some people will accept me and some people will wonder if that blow hard white guy is ever going to shut up.

In terms of the topic. I really struggled with the opposite sex. Sent to an all boys high school didn’t help matters and having two brothers and no sisters didn’t help either. My mother was very controlling and didn’t want us to have girlfriends as she was very much a prude and a killjoy. No sex before marriage was the mantra and something I was definitely going to rebel against. Forget that for a joke! I desperately wanted a girlfriend, a female confidante, someone I could open up to about my many fears and insecurities to but primarily I desired a physical relationship because there seemed to be this desperate, primordial urge to get my end away. Testosterone is frightening and I didn’t cope well with adolescence. I have never felt as lonely and unlovable as I did in my late teens and early twenties. I understand why suicide is such a strong option for young men. My eldest son is seventeen today and fortunately seems far better adjusted than I did at his age. I spent three months in a locked psychiatric unit during my final year of high school while they tried to dose me up with antidepressants. I survived depression but it took years and a lot of therapy. So what helped me find success with girls was probably alcohol. The late, great comedian Bill Hicks talked the truth when he said that there were far better drugs that should have been legalized ahead of alcohol. So true! I gave up alcohol but it really is a useful tool for dealing with social anxiety especially in large group settings like parties where I do struggle. I was way more relaxed and confident when I was inebriated but it is a dodgy tightrope to walk maintaining that equilibrium. You can quickly become an obnoxious, selfish and insensitive idiot that can be devastating when you sober up and realize how callous and harmful you were under the influence of alcohol. Honesty probably goes a long way but it is hard to be vulnerable and risk rejection when your very psyche is fragile. Sex is awesome and a very powerful motivational tool and it probably saved my life and kept me persevering through some hellish times. Having a sense of humour helps too!

My brother, who has been married for quite a while, has decided it would be fun to live vicariously through me. So any mention of me settling down does not sit well with him. He ends almost every conversation we have with, bang them all. Don't get married, bang them all !!!

He's even sent text messages that were work-related, but then at the end, he implores me to forget this silly idea of finding a wife, and instead, turn it into a sex tour.

He has issues. But his main issue is not that he wants to see me go on a sexual tear through the Philippines or anywhere else. He doesn't want me to do better than him, in regards to the quality of wife I am able to land. And he has a very superficial way of measuring the relative value of different women, based mostly on physical appearance and age. I think this is why he's constantly mentioning various single women that he knows, and trying to push me in that direction. Ones that he wouldn't be interested in, but they are good enough for me. His friend's ex-wife, the lady who lives down the road, some woman he met at the bank. All sorts of different ladies, with different stories, but the most important thing is that they are less appealing in some way, than his own wife is. And he wants me to give up my natural attraction to women who are slim, and accept the fact that women here are getting bigger and bigger. Find one who is a little beyond plump. And therefore, my getting hitched, doesn't raise my stock. Meaning, that I find someone who neither lowers nor raises my position in the world.

If I find a wife who is perfect for me, then my stock has gone way up. And, I think that deep down he doesn't want to see that happen. He has this really nice wife who is very loyal and trustworthy. To me, this means that he has been very lucky. To him, it's something he has over other people. So, it's best if other men in the family have tumultuous, short-lived relationships or at best, that they find one who is less attractive in some way. Like I said, he has issues. :-)

Thanks Dale, As long as you continue to grow and evolve into a better person, I won’t hold it against you the learning curve that went into you becoming the man you are today. Mistakes are opportunities to reflect, learn and modify your behaviours. Sometimes this takes time. I like how you recognize your brother’s possible motives and that sounds completely plausible to me too. It’s called the tall poppy syndrome down in NZ and it’s rampant. People like to cut down those they perceive to have made a better life for themselves and don’t conform to the mean. I can see the appeal of a strong, cohesive loving extended family and what a blessing it is to have that level of trust and support. I am sorry that you were not blessed with that particular family dynamic. Having two successful daughters that love you and are involved in your life is a credit to you after what sounds like poor modelling that you yourself experienced growing up. It is nice to have the courage of your convictions and know the path you follow feels right for you and really that is all that matters ultimately.

It is strange how some people behave when it has no bearing on their own lives. Why lash out and get bent out of shape trying to change others when you can be so much happier concentrating on something you can change, yourself? The older I get the more comfortable I am with myself and the less I need others to validate me. Maybe a sign of maturity I hope?

I did a couple laps around the internet this morning. Turns out that marriages that start online are less likely to end in divorce. Notice I said marriages. I'm not sure that every Tinder meeting ends up in a marriage.

https://www.businessinsider.com/happy-marriage-online-dating-2017-10

A HUGE HUGE HUGE NO NO NO:

Yelling, whistling, honking, touching a woman who is simply going about her business. I find this to be the slimiest of the slime and do not even acknowledge the existence of a man with so little character he feels he can attack me on the street. Most women share this viewpoint.

I think it's always safest, to wait for women to get touchy. If they don't, then it's almost certain that nothing is going to happen between you. Anything that could be misconstrued as a road rage incident, is probably not considered attractive.

Get married. The women appear out of nowhere then. (just trying to funny here but that's exactly what happened to me many years ago)

This is a sorting mechanism that you definitely don't bring up on the first date. Talk to your potential spouse about end-of-life care. I talked to mine about assisted suicide, and she was not very keen on even having that conversation. She wants to believe that I will live to over 100 years old and that we will die at roughly the same time. She's a little less than half my age.

She wouldn't even let me talk about the division of assets.

But she did have a very good idea of how she thought I should be cared for, if incapacitated, and she understands that I wouldn't want to be a guy drooling in his wheelchair, in a nursing home. She anticipates making everything as comfortable as possible at home, because to her it would be the ultimate shame, to send me anywhere.

But who knows where these things go with time. Given 30 or 40 years with me, I think a large number of people would gladly run down to the store and get me a grenade. :-)

Dale Hodgins wrote:But who knows where these things go with time. Given 30 or 40 years with me, I think a large number of people would gladly run down to the store and get me a grenade. :-)

Nah, too messy.  ;)

The women have a thread now concerning red flags. Red flags can be fun cuz it gives us a chance to vent.

Here's a few of mine.

Unfounded accusations. Pretty self-explanatory. If your getting accused of shit that you didn't do, that's a problem. Remember, it has to be stuff you didn't do, so if you really did try to screw her friend or you really have been watching porn for 6 hours, you don't get to get mad about this one. For that you have to wait till we get to, she keeps catching me doing shit.

     Sometimes they say stuff
You don't really like me anyway. If you're spending a lot of time with this woman, and spending money on her, it's time for her to stop with that.

You're just like your whole family. This one is just sort of a general statement of distaste for everything about you. Your relationship could go on for another 20 years, but you should probably end it tonight.

These are deal Killers for relationships that are well on their way or on their way out.

Financial skulduggery of any kind. If you're working together with One bank account and she has a hidden bank fed by your efforts ditch the bitch. But drain that bank account first.

Let's look at some first date deal killers.
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Why are you looking at the waitress, maybe because I'm hungry and I was hoping she was bringing the food.

One piece of advice I gave my boys, which they agreed later was good, was "ask the girl out as soon as you start to like her".  If she's still trying to decide if she even likes you and your trying to get her to help you pick out names for your kids together, it puts a huge amount of pressure on the girl and she'll probably scurry away.  The start of a relationship has to be relatively even in terms of commitment and caring.  The one who is least invested has all the power in the relationship.

RED FLAGS
If she can't stop talking about her ex.  RED FLAG!  She may not be over him.  She is probably still healing and there is all kinds of emotional confusion inside her.  Later she might be ok.  Right now she's probably not ready.

If she has an unreasonable number of enemies. RED FLAG!  She holds grudges.

If she can't hold down a job.   RED FLAG!  She's either in very bad health, lazy or unreliable.  (Could be a string of bad luck, but the longer the string, the more likely it's not just luck)

If she has been living in the area long and doesn't have friends.   RED FLAG!  This may be simply because she is shy, so may not be a deal breaker.  You should find the reason though, she may be hiding things.

If she doesn't like her dad.   RED FLAG!  All of a woman's relationships with men are strongly colored of her first relationship with a male, her father.  This may not be a deal breaker, but it does call for more examination.

If she can't get along with her family.   RED FLAG!  It may be that she is the only sane one in the bunch.  Odds aren't good.  If they are that screwed up, she probably has lots of emotional scars.

If she goes bat shit crazy periodically.   RED FLAG!  Do you really want that much drama in your life?  It may not be her fault (hormones, mental health issues) but at the start of a relationship you need to choose, 'do I want to put my foot in that bear trap?'

If she is an angry person.   RED FLAG!  She will be angry at you.  There is nothing beautiful about an angry person.

If she is a complainer.   RED FLAG!  It may be ok for a while, but trust me, you'll get tired of listening to whining.

If you are one of a long string of short term relationship guys.   RED FLAG!  She either has hidden problems or she has lousy taste in guys (so what does it say that she's out with you?)

None of these things is necessarily a deal killer, but they are signs of rough road ahead.  There used to be a joke about 'dirty old men need love too'.  Everyone needs love and understanding, maybe you can fix her.  The odds are not good.  I resisted going into management because I fix things.  Things are easy to fix.  Managers have to deal with broken people and broken people are REALLY, REALLY hard to fix.

You are looking for a partner in life.  If you were looking for a partner in a business, you would want someone who could carry their half of the load, maybe more.  Hopefully you would have complimentary strenths, so that you could compensate for a weakness in your partner and vise versa.  Same with a long term romantic relationship.  This person will help make your life heaven, hell or somewhere in the middle.  Think long and hard before taking on a 'fixxer upper project'.

As a general rule, really beautiful women tend to be more screwed up.  This isn't really their fault.  It's because guys will put up with all kinds of shit from a really beautiful woman, for a while.  When they finally have had enough, there are 10 other guys eager to take up the slack.  This means beautiful women's behavior correction feedback loop isn't calibrated correctly.  Also, often, guys zoom in on the beautiful ones earlier, before they are ready for anything and kind of screw them up.

THINGS TO LOOK FOR

Is she a happy person?  This may be the most important thing.  If she is comfortable with herself and reasonably content/ happy, it bodes well.

Is she kind?  Watch how she acts around the socially inept, the ugly, fat or stupid.  This is really important.  You may be ugly, fat or stupid someday.  You want a woman who will be kind to you because that is who she is, not because of who you are.  Someday you will be someone else (I know, blows my mind.  I am a different person in many ways than I was 30 years ago.  Certainly fatter and uglier).

Is she reasonably physically appealling?  As you get closer to a person, the outside becomes less important.  Still, you're going to roll over and look at her every morning for the next 50 years.  She probably won't get better looking later, so this is as good as it will get.  You are looking for acceptable or better.

Is she competent?  Not that she can do everything, competence is partly just an attitude.

Does she bring out your best side?  This is really important.  She will effect who you will become.  Who do you want to be in 20 years.

Are you comfortable just being next to her, without something going on?  Often, there won't be discussion, sex or a major activity going on.  

Is she stable?  Any crazy she brings into the relationship will be you will have live with.  Let the buyer beware!

Do you have similar views on major, important things.  Not really talking about politics here.  Similar views on faith, desired lifestyle, kids/ no kids.  The two of you will adjust to some degree, but if she wants an apartment on Manhattens east side and you want a cabin in the Yukon, you're going to have conflicts.

Similarity of culture is a plus, because when you start to form your own family, you each bring unconcious assumptions along.  These will inevitably collide.  Coming from two families (hopefully), even from the same neighborhood, you will have differences.  The greater the differences, the more collision of unconcious assumptions.  In some cases this is a national/racial type issue, sometimes not.  I would expect more conflicts between a rabidly feminist liberal radical, white middle class american woman marrying a conservative, traditional white middle class american man than I would see in a traditional filipina or mexican woman marrying the same guy.

If she has a list of things that aren't right about you, that could be a red flag. I could see there being some little thing, like you really need to get that haircut or something. But if it's a never-ending list, then you aren't right for her.

If the sound of her voice makes you cringe, chances are you've known her a while and you've ignored other red flags.

If her profile contains a shopping list, that's a red flag to me.

This is my own red flag,  People have different tastes. If she really likes rap music, that's a red flag for me. It's like the cultural equivalent of a tramp stamp tattoo for me. If I see that in the profile, I skip by, because I assume she's going to be a bar star.

Drinking photographs in a profile. If a girl has gone to the trouble of making a profile for herself and then the best she can come up with in photographs, are a bunch of shots on various patios at restaurants, drinking with friends, I'd prefer to leave her there.

Makeup or hair, done to the point where I can't really tell what she looks like. I have met women who turned out to be an entirely different ethnicity than I thought they were, because they were so gobbed up in the stuff. And I've heard some of these same women say that it's necessary, because that's what guys want. I suppose really really stupid guys might want that and I think she'd be best to find one of them.

Perfume that makes your eyes water. If her natural odor is so bad that it requires a paint job like that, I'll pass.

Rotten teeth. I can't think of any circumstance where this might be okay. I suppose if she was born with some rare condition like rotting teeth disorder, but I'd still have to pass.

My biggest red flag  -  Huge weight fluctuations. Caution having an opinion on this will make you some enemies. I know that if weight has been a problem in the past, it is likely to be a problem in the future. Even if she's rail-thin now, if she was 60 pounds heavier a few months ago you'd better like that look, because there's a very good chance of the weight coming back. To me, I don't see it just as a weight problem. There's either going to be some really serious physical problem, or there's something psychological going on, and I don't think it's usually fixable.

For me the weight thing isn't just about looks, it's indicative of a very serious health problem, but it's unique, in that many people who have this serious health problem aren't really doing anything about it. Usually if someone has a broken leg, they will seek an immediate remedy. If they can't breathe because of their allergies, they will seek remedy. But someone who is likely to drop dead of a heart attack or just fall apart slowly from packing a lot of extra weight will often put more time into excuses, than into dealing with it.

So there's two red flags. One for me, and one that any woman without her weight under control, would certainly apply to me. How dare he not want me to put on a hundred pounds. And how does he think this is his business anyway? :-)

Vices that she's already given up. Another one that's not going  to make me many friends. Even if she has given up crack, cigarettes, heroin, binge drinking and glue sniffing, I'm going to judge her as though she has done it in front of me right now. To me, these things don't go away when you stop doing them. They are indicative of a pattern, and whatever damage they have done is still there.

Gambling. I'm not interested in anyone so mathematically stunted, that they can't see this is a losing game. And I'd prefer to not wake up one morning and find that I'm bankrupt.

Edit, I've got some more.

Gender fluidity. I'm only interested in those who were born female and have always been happy being female. And I'm only interested in women who have always been heterosexual. When I was on the dating site, two different transsexuals wasted my time. They appeared female, but they will never be female to me. I had stated what I was interested in and they ignored that. To me, they will always be men playing dress up.

I'm not trying to say that people shouldn't be allowed to do this, to alter their bodies in any way they choose. But I want them to be upfront about it so that the vast majority of men who are not comfortable with this, don't have to find themselves tricked into some sort of relationship with what many of us still consider a man.

Another red flag for me, androgyny. If I have to look really really closely and take my best guess at weather the person is male or female, that's a huge turn off for me. I don't need to see big boobs or other obviously lady parts, but the whole package should be obviously female at a glance.

I think those are great lists, Mick.  And they apply for men and women, IMO.  Not necessarily deal breakers or "have to's" but definitely things to keep an eye on or be more caution or observant in regards to.

I like Mick's list better than my own. I looked at it with my girlfriend in mind, and I think everything is good.

The main one for me is always, is she a naturally happy person. When you don't have that, there's going to be trouble. Because eventually, that unhappiness will be your fault.

My ex-wife's father was a cheater. All three of his daughters worked at making their partners miserable and all three are divorced. I can't really put a finger on everything they did, just constantly expressing a general disdain for men. Well, for men that they were married to. All of them also lamented loudly, the perfect men they could have married, had they not chosen so poorly. Apparently, really successful, generous and super rich guys would have swept each of these unhappy women off their feet, if the three of us hadn't defiled them first.

My friend emailed me a scan of some cards we printed up and handed out at Oktoberfest 25 years ago.  We made 8  or 10 different ones and handed them out all night long.  We really didn't expect any actual dates from it, rather we just did it to amuse ourselves.  We had girls coming up to us all night long, having searched the whole arena for us to meet us or collect the set.  It was a fantastic way to start a conversation.  At the bottom there's a pic of 3 that another friend came across recently.

I'll also put myself out there and give you a link to my OKCupid profile, though you have to have an account to see it.  As has been suggested, I fleshed it out quite a bit.  Many women have commented that most men don't write much.  

OK Cupid profile

I get a lot of responses; too many really.  I had hoped that I'd weed out a lot of women by showing them a little of my crazy, but I get a lot of messages from women who don't seem to have much in common with me.  I have a hard time telling women thanks but no thanks, and it seems the proper internet etiquette is to just ignore those you're not interested in, so I find that aspect of internet dating awkward.

For those without an account, here's the text:

My self-summary

I believe in equality and respect and that there are fundamental rights for human beings, regardless of...

I'm an engineer, in terms of both education and proclivity, with all the good and bad that encompasses. I love learning and can't imagine ever stopping, and I do geek out at times. While I would struggle to pass Kindergarten art, I do appreciate it.

In the spirit of learning, I'm always trying to be a better person. There are some things that don't come easy and I think I'll always have to work on them, but I'm fine with that. I don't think you can ever change someone else and I think it's wrong to try. If they aren't right for you just as they are, you're both better off moving on. I'm not looking for someone to complete me, rather someone who complements me.

I've been an atheist since I was a kid, but I'm thinking of taking up Odinism because eternity is an awfully long time and Valhalla sounds like the most fun you can have in the afterlife.

I may not be ridiculously good looking, but I'm good at looking ridiculous.

I'm 5'6" and have dated women under 5' and over 6', but if that doesn't work for you, no worries.

I loves me some babies, human or otherwise, and I love kids. Turns out I'm the crazy uncle.

I try to stay positive; I don't always manage it, but I think I always bounce back. The one exception is my hair. I'm having a bad hair life.

I think everyone has an incredible talent and that the biggest tragedy is never discovering what it is.

What I'm doing with my life

Learning something new every day.

TALENT
I'm really good at

Being myself and not apologizing for it

Being a dad

Cooking

Renos

Cheese trays, gift boxes, and gift wrapping

Doing the right thing even when nobody would know otherwise

Creative facial hair sculpting

Laughing out loud in public when something strikes me as funny

Sentence fragments

Not taking myself too seriously

Not judging people

I'm also incredibly strong. I can bench-press 1500 lbs, but I don't do it very often as it takes a long time to do 100 reps and the other guys at the gym get mad.


Favorite books, movies, shows, music, and food


I think my favourite book is Good Omens, but second place is probably a hundred-way tie. I read a lot, both fiction and non-fiction, with the emphasis lately on the latter. I probably read a couple of books a week.

I haven't had cable for a very long time, but I do have Netflix; I'm not a Luddite. I can, and do, get sucked in at times, and it's nice to veg out occasionally, but it's not the best use of my time. That could change with the right viewing partner.

I like all six types of music: rhythm & blues, country & western, and hip & hop. Good music spans the spectrum, bad music is whatever I play.

I'm a big fan of food, sustainably grown/raised for preference. Being half Dutch, half British, I have a deep appreciation for the culinary skills of pretty much every other ethnicity. My personal belief is that the eras of British and Dutch colonialism were brought about, not because of the pursuit of imperialism or commerce, but simply to find something palatable to eat. I would love to take some classes in Thai, Moroccan, and Indian cuisine. If you're Thai, Moroccan, or Indian, we should talk.

Six things I could never do without


Tea, in most of it's forms.

Possibly 5 gallon buckets.

I'm not sure what else. I think if I had an adequate supply of tea and buckets, I could improvise anything else I need. If you're looking for gift ideas for me, I'd suggest a 5 gallon bucket full of tea.

I spend a lot of time thinking about

How to solve a problem like Maria.

Cows, pigs, chickens, and shit

Sustainability

Bees and the stupidity of humankind. While I haven't conducted any scientific studies, anecdotally I think it's apparent that intelligence varies inversely with the number of people gathered.

Fermentation

On a typical Friday night I am

Surprised it's Friday.

DATING
You should message me if

If you think my crazy and your crazy have a chance. We're all nuts in our own way and, looking back, I think my best relationships were the ones where her 'annoying' habits were endearing to me. I'd love to find someone who thinks the things about me that drive most people nuts are a positive. I told you I'm an optimist. I'm also looking for someone for whom honesty is important. We're all adults here and if you can't be honest with your partner, you really don't have a partner.

I'm not a patient man, so I would much rather meet for coffee (tea) than email endlessly.

That said, please don't bother if you're racist or homophobic; I really don't want to know you.EDIT