growing a million calories on an acre, the first year, starting with dirt

Are you allowed to plant trees as part of your garden?

This is an excellent question.  After all, this is about demonstrating permaculture.  

Somehow I want the plots to have a thousand fruit/nut/legume tree seeds and pits planted - all so there will be a budding food jungle in a few years.  So how does this get worked out?  The harvest from that won't be for several years.  

Overall, as much as I want this to be a part, I cannot see a way ...  Other than to lay out hopes for a future kickstarter, seven years in the future that counts calories again.  Maybe even calories per hour of effort.

N Stephanson wrote:Someone mentioned seed companies a ways back and that got me thinking... what if we asked a different seed company to sponsor each gardener? They would supply the seeds and a portion of the gardeners pay in exchange for the gardener wearing their shirt all summer or something, and that way the kickstarter goal could be lowered to a much more achievable level.

It would be great if seed companies stood up to do that.   And then the seed companies might end up augmenting the bonuses.

I get that this may be "too close" to actual sponsorship and MAY well not be the route Paul is comfortable with due to concerns this could/would taint the process.

I would be cool with that sort of sponsorship.

This could be done like your recent greenhouse build simply as a demonstration at Wheaton labs. Maybe two gardens using dig and no dig of the same crops.Then the following year there could be a followup challenge for people all over to follow the example and grow a million or more. The demo would give insights and impetus to folks who would keep the ball rolling.

Annelle Kurtz wrote:My '2-cents worth' >> also add into the calculation how much financial input was invested into the setting up of each plot. ie: "greenhouse" or chicken coop/ shade house structure. Animals bought (I'd definitely add in ducks > their poop is MAGIC!

Some people would of course source more costly mulch or non-local materials to build structures for growing taller crop varieties. Some seeds would cost a lot less, some plots could grow their own mulch ( like tagasaste is a fast-growing mulch plant). etc.

I think that each person will have two acres.  One acre for "the test" and one acre to put their supplies, and a few might pitch a tent and some this and that.  It is possible that somebody might choose to raise a few animals and run them into their test acre from time to time.  Or they might choose to scoop poop on the second acre and bring it to the first acre.   I do have to say that any animal system have to fit within my standards - so nothing there the animals are confined to the point that they are standing in their own shit.  Also against "chicken tractors" the philosophy (although "chicken tractors" the contraption can be a lovely thing).  

All that said, I think some people are going to choose a vegan path that includes animals and some will choose a vegan path that does not include animals.  And it will be interesting to see the results.  

Further, I think it is possible that a person with an acre might have a helper or two.  Or seven.  And these people will generate kitchen scraps - maybe even off site kitchen scraps.  And this might end up in the primary acre as ruth stout composting.  And all these people might pee on everything in the primary acre.   And all this stuff will be allowed.

Inge Leonora-den Ouden wrote:Well, I do like experiments and challenges. Especially to watch them on videos.

This experiment will be good to show skeptics that it's possible to have a good yield of calories from non-conventional agriculture.

But there are reasons why I would not want to support this challenge. From my point of view this can not be Permaculture. This challenge is all about calories in a year, so it's about growing only annuals. Permaculture has to do with the long term ('permanent'). The first years the perennials, bushes and trees will not yet give the best yield; that will take more time.
And ... it is not only 'calories' that make nutrition. What about minerals and vitamins?
And, as I see it, Permaculture is not about cleaning a plot to 'bare dirt' and then starting to garden. One of the principles is to use what there is ...

I think this first year would be a stepping stone to future years.  And with each year there can be a different focus - a different set of standards.  

It is possible that the whole project does so well the first year, that we can talk about the standards for the second year.  And the people working the plots will begin to plant stuff for the second year in the late summer of the first year.  Or in the fall.  

I suppose that we could make it a requirement for the first year to have an overlayed plan for double calories in seven years with a fraction of the effort.  

I'm curious why the competition is limited to people gardening at the lab: why not let people have a test patch on their own property? That allows "normal" folk to (maybe) enter the fun/competition, since they could then also take care of home and hearth. Granted there would then be different growing seasons, but the internal test of "traditional" row gardening vs permaculture seems the more valuable comparison, to me, and that would be present for each gardener, no matter location. It might also eliminate the need for gardener pay, save seed/startup funds.

I would love to see people in different areas of the country (or even world) as part of the challenge. For instance, David the Good and Deep South Homestead are in the south with sandy soil and lots of rain. I am in Southeast Idaho with no rain and silt or rocks for soil. I start my garden in January using hotbeds while they plant right in the ground. We both can grow sweet potatoes and figs but we use different methods. Mine are very animal intensive but I also grow my own meat using my garden. Deep South Homestead uses a lot of artificial fertilizer, David the Good doesn't use artificial fertilizer, he just plants things further apart.

It would be a shame to see all results from the same region with the same methodologies. What if the one million calorie challenge was free as far as method and material? That way if someone could grow a conventional artificial fertilizer garden and be a success there wasn't a bias against that instead of comprehensive comparison. The only limitation should be that everyone grows in the same size of plot like you said in the original post.

I'm guessing it's because the lab is a level playing field of challenging soil.  I could take 1/8 acre in my Wisconsin pasture and easily grow a million calories with about 10 hours a week of work.  I'm sure it would be harder at the lab.

paul wheaton wrote:
In the video, the key is how much food can you grow without external inputs.  The answer is that with a quarter of an acre, with a LOT of work, in about five years, you could get to the point that might possibly grow enough to feed a small person.  And with a full acre, you can grow enough food for one person ....  eventually it could possibly be with zero effort.

The amount of food for one person for one year is roughly a million calories.  

My gardens together are approximately 1/4 acre. In 25 years, there have been plenty of inputs from outside that 1/4 acre but never any form outside my property.  Nor have any chemicals of any kind been used. Machines other than a small roto tiller have never been on the property and the tiller was deleted from the scene about 10 years ago.

I just did a quick calculation of my harvests from this year, based on the chart posted previously in the thread. The total came to around 250,000 calories from sweet potatoes, beans, corn, cowpeas and peanuts. I consider those as kind of core security crops because no inputs or work is required to preserve them for use over winter. I have no clue how many calories came from tomatoes, brassicas, peas, radishes, turnips, onions, melons, okra, and many other things.

I suppose if I wanted to focus on just one of those things it would be relatively easy to produce a million calories in that quarter acre or if I ditched everything else I could easily double or triple the calories from those core crops.

Still, I would not be up to the 1,000,000-calorie goal unless, I guess, I increased to 1/2 an acre. Plus, I'm feeding tow people so I need two million. Fortunately, I don't have to do that because it sounds like a lot of work and I just looked up and found that a single pecan has 20 calories. I'm guessing black walnuts are about the same or even more. Add those two in and a million calories is in the rear-view mirror not counting the grapes, peaches, pears, asparagus and other stuff that just grows mostly on its own outside the garden fences.

paul wheaton wrote:

Are you allowed to plant trees as part of your garden?

This is an excellent question.  After all, this is about demonstrating permaculture.  
Somehow I want the plots to have a thousand fruit/nut/legume tree seeds and pits planted - all so there will be a budding food jungle in a few years.  So how does this get worked out?  The harvest from that won't be for several years.  
Overall, as much as I want this to be a part, I cannot see a way ...  Other than to lay out hopes for a future kickstarter, seven years in the future that counts calories again.  Maybe even calories per hour of effort.

How about video evidence of the seeds being planted, and followed up with more video evidence that they actually sprouted and survived?  

Regarding gardener pay...

If this is a permaculture trial/test, is it reasonable to expect them to focus 40-60 hours a week on their garden?  If I see someone living in their garden and peeing on each plant according to its needs, I'd say it isn't practical/scaleable.  

I suspect the choice in gardeners is:
1. Full time experienced gardeners that abandon their current jobs/gardens to come camp at the lab for this competition.  Much money is needed to attract them and they'd likely spend 40+ hours a week making their garden grow optimally.

2. Part time experienced gardeners that commute in to the lab from Missoula or other towns.  Use their spare time so they don't have a job loss.  Or they treat it as a flexible part time job.  Less money is needed to attract them and they'd spend a more reasonable time in the garden.  Similar to what other folks in the world would devote to a new garden on their own place.

3. Aspiring newbies/newer gardeners who don't have a job/garden to abandon.  They can migrate in to the lab and pitch a tent.  Less money is needed to attract them.  They might spend tons of time in the garden and have adjacent animal systems but due to inexperience it may not be an advantage.

I'd propose that the kickstarter would be challenging to fund if you need $130k.  

I'd aim for gardener options #2 and #3 with the hopes that a #1 would come in to be a ringer.  In doing so I'd offer less money for the gardeners during the growing season with plenty of rewards (first, second, third, fourth? place) to give them a payday.

Monthly pay: $1200 per gardener  (20 hrs per week at $15/hr)
Videographer: This is tricky.  They'd probably have to be on site a bunch to catch gardeners doing cool things.  Maybe it could be one of the gardeners.  I'm assuming their pay would be heavily based upon actual delivery of the raw and finished video.  Maybe $500 per month with $10,000? upon delivery.
Rewards: $5000 for anyone hitting a million calories.  $20,000 to first place, $10,000 for second, $3,000 for third, $1500 for fourth.  Those prizes are only if the person passed a million calories.

Assuming six gardeners and four got over a million calories, it would cost $50,400 for gardener pay, 13,500 for video and 54,500 for rewards.  Total of $118,400

Sheesh, that's still pretty high even with reducing the gardener pay to "part time".

Maybe there could be a "Boot Gardener" program.  Like the Bootcamp but you're doing this garden thing instead of boot work?  No pay during the competition (food and lodging instead) but the rewards are still there in the end.  If you had 6 Gardening Boots it would save the $50,400 of salary.  But you do have to feed them which isn't free...  Boot Videographer could be another occupation.  No pay during the challenge but a big check at the end when it's delivered.


Bonus kickstarter idea: stretch goals that occur at 20% funded, 40% funded, etc.  Only pay out when fully funded?

Bonus funding idea: I'm sure this is "out" but there are some cable channels that like to do this sort of thing

I'm interested in how this plays out and I might be in a position to do such a thing. I spend very little time following social media posts is there a way for me to be sure I get all posts for this topic? Somehow I got an alert for this and just clicked on it. Thank you

What about a Neigbourhood Coop?  I am putting together this flyer for people in our church. but this in not a church function.  I am just using the ladies as a means of getting the word out.  Take a look:

Wild Fires, Drought, Pandemic. Food Shortages, a wild Hurricane Season, Flash Flooding and Fights over Toilet Paper!  What A Year We Have Had!  
And, by most forecast, it is going to get worse!!
This world can produce enough food for the roughly 7 billion people alive today.  The United Nations Food and Agriculture Organization (FAO) estimates the world population will surpass 9.1 billion by 2050, at which point agricultural systems will not be able to supply enough food to feed everyone.  
Sara Menker founder of Gro Intelligence, was a comedies trader on the stock market.  She was on Ted Talks, and her company thinks the tipping point for food is only about 10 years from now, 2030.  There will be a 214 trillion calories shortage.  That is equal to 379 billion Big Mack’s, that is more hamburgers than McDonald’s has sold in its entire history.  One Big Mack has 563calories.  
The 2008 global rice crisis occurred between January and May 2008, the international trading price of rice jumped dramatically, increasing more than 300% (from USD $300 to $1,200 per ton) in just four months.  It was in fact caused by fear but it still caused a great run-on rice.  Some stores ran out.  Reminds you of the run-on TP doesn’t it?
About 20 or so years ago, I saw a letter on the internet.  It was from the WMO, “World Meteorological Origination”; which is a part of the UN.  It was addressed to the governments of the world and told them over the next 100 years the weather will become so extreme we stand to lose 30% to 70% of all the plant and animal life on the planet.  About 8 years later they sent out another letter; we now stand to lose 50% of everything.  I have requested copies of these letters.  When I did receive a response, it was a bunch of GIBBERISH!!  NO LETTERS!!  Are they part of the cover-up?
The UN, the World Meteorological Origination, Gro Intelligence, and the rice shortage, the forecast does not look bright.  Do we want to wait until there is a “Global Food Shortage” or should we start making plans now?  
I and many others believe the first lesson is:  Leaving our wellbeing in the hands of the government is just asking for trouble.  A co-op is an easy way for people to work together.  If a small group neighbors can come together; they can help each other in many ways.  We all have may different talents.  Just having a group of friends, you can depend on can be a great comfort during a disaster, large or small.  So where do we start?  Why is cooperative ownership important? More than just providing goods and services, co-ops put decision-making power and any generated wealth back into the hands of the co-owners or workers all with equity in mind as people work together to build better systems.  
A cooperative, AKA co-op, is a group of people that agree to cooperate with each other.  It can be for profit or a not for profit, 501c3.  It is a state chartered a business entity but in the case of a co - op it is owned and controlled by the investor- owner -members.  The rules are made by the members.  They can agree to provide whatever goods and or services the members need.  Another thing that is different and important about a co-op is, one member cannot own or control a larger portion of the co-op than another member, each member is equal.  They work together.  An older member with a very large yard might agree to have part of it turned into a big community vegetable garden and in return they get all the free vegies they need.  It makes more sense than paying for lawn service every week.!
A co-op can own land.  A lot can be purchased and the members can build a storage building for the bigger tools like a tractor, a rototiller, a wood chipper, a log splitter, a leaf vacuum, all owned by the coop and shared by the members.  A member living on the property or next-door; can keep a record of who has what tool and when it should be back.  If there is enough room perhaps a community composting area.  Another member might know how to maintain the tools and equipment and can share his knowledge with other members to keep everything running smoothly.  The member that can take care of the equipment might be given some space to work on members cars.  
What talent could you learn or what could you teach or share with your neighbors?  
Co-ops are often formed by a group of people with something in common, in this case a safe neighborhood.  People can get very nasty when they are hungry.  The co-op is sometimes formed to secure things like low-cost credit to purchase things.  A group may need supplies and equipment for farming, livestock, or household needs like appliances, canning equipment & jars, or a stand to sell produce like the surplus from your garden.  One member could provide daycare service for other members and get food as payment.  They may secure services, like electric power, irrigation, health or auto insurance. Cooperatives can be used in many ways to help people with the everyday needs of life.  In Nashville there is a coop that has a restaurant and catering service.  The Three Rivers Market in Knoxville is a co-op.  
Several cooperatives can work together and multiply their buying power.  Instead of one group buying 100 mason jars and two new presser canners; several groups could buy 1,000 mason jars and 20 new presser canners.  Companies would probably give a nice discount for an order that size.  
Learning and growing should be one main efforts of a co-op as a group:  Free information is all around us.  A Ham Radio Club also known as Amateur Radio; often have classes your Co-op can take.  One person with a ham radio license in each home and you will never lose touch and there is no monthly bill either.  The hams can be almost invaluable in a time of crisis and are sometimes even called into action by the government.  The ability to communicate, a call for help, or to let your family know you are OK, a ham operator can do it even when the phones lines are down and the power is out.  
A Red Cross class in first aid can be a life saver.  Classes in first aid can teach things like; when do you really need to go to the hospital and when you can stay home and take care of it.   What do you need for a home First Aid Kit?  (The first aid kits sold in the stores are a joke.)  Someone with an interest in medicine could do the sourcing and stocking for the coop’s major medical equipment and supplies.  A neighbor who is a Med Teck would be a great asset.  They are trained in trauma assessment response, recognizing and managing shock, debriding cleaning, suturing, to close a wound.  They could also train the other members how to care for themselves.
Sites like skillshare.com, or YouTube, and many others have classes you can take.  YouTube has an incredible number of videos on how to do it.  Whatever it is!  
Is one of your neighbors already interested in using herbs to heal.  They may already know about finding medicinal wild plants in your area or even have them growing in their own yard.  What could you save by making and using your own medicine.
Do you really need to mow the grass each weekend?  Why not rototill the yard and plant clover and wild flowers.  Not only are they beautiful; they are good for the pollinators like bees and butterfly’s.  Commercial honey bee operations are essential to agricultural production in the U.S., pollinating $15 billion worth of food crops each year.  White clover stays low and is great for bees.  Maybe one member could be a bee keeper.  There are bee keeping clubs.  Find one close by and learn how to do it or let them put a hive in your area.  How about a garden to grow your own vegetables?.  The Library of Congress still has the flyers for the “Victory Gardens” of the second world war.  Cucumbers grow great on a chain-link fence, so do string bean.  One member of your coop could raise chickens and another rabbits.  They are both a good source of protein.  If you need milk for the kids one family might take on some goats.  Their milk makes some great cheese.  They are great for clearing a lot of something like kudzu.                
The big thing is to talk with the neighbors.  What are their talents, what do they like to do?  I love kids, so I would be happy to be to have the day care.  Find happy solution so the group can grow, prosper and most important, take care of each other.  Anyone willing to pitch in and help the group should be welcome.  A cooperative is limited only by how big the members can dream.  The first co-op was started by Ben Franklin to provide fire insurance.    
Cooperatives carry on businesses in all sectors and they may be profit sharing enterprises or non-profit organizations.  I doubt that a little extra money would hurt anyone.  
When you start a co-op, you will need to know something about the members.   An application, name address and so on.  If you want to or have any droughts consider background check.  Keep in mind if it is done for one it should be done for all.
Funding for the Co-op will be a combination of traditional loans, grants, and capital contributed by our Co-Owners.  The benefits and dividends will be the same for each Co-owner.
1. Open & voluntary membership - Ownership is open to everyone who wants to join, without discrimination.
2. Democratic member control - Those who buy in as Co-Owners control the business. Co-Owners will have a voice in major decisions through working groups, voting opportunities, and engaging in open discussions with the board. No one can have a majority interest or buy more control than anyone else — one person, one vote.
3. Member economic participation - Here is a list of other co-op’s look at their web sites.  If you are in the neighborhood stop and explore, talk and get a feel for the co-op experience.  
4. Cooperatives are autonomous, self-help organizations controlled by their members. If they enter into agreements with other organizations, including governments, or raise capital from external sources, they do so on terms that ensure democratic control as well as their unique identity.
5. Education, training, & information -Cooperatives provide education and training for members, managers, and employees so they can effectively contribute to the development of the Co-op.
6. Cooperation among cooperatives - Cooperatives work together to help other cooperatives in formal and informal ways. There are several co-op groups that help new cooperatives open and maintain their organizations including National Co-op Grocers, the Cooperative Grocer Network, and the Food Cooperative Initiative.
7. Concern for community - Cooperatives operate with a focus on member needs and concerns. We’ll work toward sustainable growth of our community through values-focused policies and programs.
These seven principles were formed in 1844 by the first modern cooperative, the Rochdale Society of Equitable Pioneers of Rochdale, England. While it’s not a requirement that all co-ops implement these ideas, most adopt them as business guidelines—

I am still working on it so if you see any problems please let me know.  I need all the help I can get.  feel free to share.

Nit picking question. I would like to know though.  You mentioned daikon. Would it be better to grow several crops of small radishes or maybe let small ones go to seed for the purpose of eating the pods?

Robin Katz wrote:This last year we grew corn (Lofthouse variety so I know it's good) on a new 2' built up hugel bed with minimal inputs other than some kitchen scraps and pee.

My varieties require irrigation, and are mal-adapted to hugelculture. Perhaps they absorbed my attitude that hugel may be inappropriate for arid climates. I observe a lot of gardens that fail, because people mix woody materials into their soil. Wood in the soil saps nutrients. If we are going to play the hugel game in arid climates, is seems to me like it's a many decades long process to regain fertility. On my farm, untreated fence posts are still non-decomposed from fences that fell down 60 years ago.

Can you give me an idea of where you think somebody would use a powerful electric tool to help with gardening?

Haha, oooooh, what about one of these?!

https://solectrac.com/eutility-electric-tractor

Actually, I am surprised that it only costs 40 grand. I am not really sure how long it would take a person to hand-till an acre, but if you are in effect paying an hourly wage for people to break sod, this thing would eventually win out.

Great concept!
Are you open to a  “Variation on a Theme”?

Similar set up as originally described, except that each group/person has to use the exact same number and variety of plants. (You make that list)

The object, then, is:
1)who can grow the most  net calories (calories grown minus calories spent growing them)
and
2) which method(s) produce the highest yields compatible with permaculture philosophy.

Divide the prize (kick starter) money accordingly
Kind of like Iron Chef goes Permaculture.
I’d pay to watch that!

Maybe the design needs to be something like this:

Year 1:  one acre.  million calories.  And there must be a seven year design, with perennials mixed in there to start the seven year plan.

Year 2:  a second acre with rules the same as the first (only no quarter acre restriction), but the amount of time allowed to be put into the second acre is limited.  One person, 20 hours per week.  The first acre has no time limits, but there are now requirements for perennials.  There are bonuses for the first acre and bonuses for the second acre.  Of course, this all depends on the funding being arranged.

Year 3:  a third acre.

Year 4: no irrigation is allowed on the first acre.

Year 5: no irrigation is allowed on the first or second acre.

Year 6: no irrigation is allowed on any of the three acres.  No more than 5 hours per week of gardening is allowed onto the first acre (unlimited time for harvest).

Year 7: no irrigation allowed


Note that "no irrigation allowed" is tempered with allowing up to 50 gallons of water per day, per acre to be delivered exclusively by bucket or watering can.

So this general framework can be used to to build on a lot of other ideas for the full seven years.  And maybe the "bonuses" of later years could grow to be more substantial.  

Could you compete in it yourself Paul? You could be the permaculture control group, have one less gardener to pay and have a shot at keeping any final prize money as the operating capital.

Here are some ideas, maybe.

- On competition, collaboration, and winning:
Since competition is fun on a certain level, but destructive on another, I think the processes should compete, not just the people.
I believe that in a group of folks, everyone needs to play to their strengths and also rise to the challenges they've got. This is difficult when each is sequestered. It should be expected that all primary gardeners will have to help each other to some extent via bartered time or whatever. The documentation of all the transactions will help to show benefits of each plan, as well as reflecting on individual input.

- On plans, and defining "winning":
Everyone has some pet projects and ideas for their BEST permaculture solution for this.
I think part of the hurdle for entry could be a thorough and robust plan (using as much proven success as possible as a basis).
I look at it as a person uprooting their life and immigrating to rural Montana, trying to make a harvest against the local obstacles and within specified constraints. What if this were my only option for feeding myself after harvest begins and had to survive til I could feed myself again the next Spring? That's tough, very tough. I think the idea is that winners stick to the pre-arranged constraints. But the over-arching decision-maker is whether something leads to more success for the group as a whole.  If everyone eats and lives, everyone is a winner.
Plans that produce well while staying in constraints provide useful intelligence, which is VERY VALUABLE.
That's the goalpost for me. Did a gardener/player adequately plan and document a truly successful harvest? Are the details, constraints, and narrative informative enough so someone could repeat the process?

- What happens after first harvest, and how does that reflect on the quality of the plan and execution?:
What is the minimum required to look beyond the first year? How MANY trees? Or goats bred or whatever?
This would be part of judging both the quality of the plan, and success even after a year.
Perhaps, instead, the one method or goal is to put as little effort into that first harvest as possible, while still succeeding? "What have you to show for yourself?" - "Well, I just barely got the 1M calories, but also I learned to do a handstand, make baskets, spent many summer days helping my neighbors  ..." - that sounds successful to me. So does investing time in whatever will make next year more successful and productive.

- Off-dirt exchange of goods/services, before, during, and after:
It might be also reasonable to use off-farm exchange as a metric of success.
Not only exports are success in communities.
Does the gardener's Permie community have the necessary connections to IMBUE what's needed? What would the hard limits be?
What do we gain through collaboration and connection with the "outside"? Don't we all consume what the honey makers make?
Flexibility there, I suggest, should be biased toward success in repeatable TARGET situations.
That is, a good winning example might culminate in dairy-goat farming for cheese, and that requires cold storage.
I think winning strategies should include connections to outside resources as a requirement, such as finding cold-storage to rent until the cheese-cave is built(?). It goes to commitment and longevity. I don't know if it is objective to deeply limit outside input, if it will amplify a successful plan.

Just thoughts. Cheers.

Could you reduce the capital outlay needed by aiming the project at young people who aren't so tied to established lives and maybe instead of paying them, grant the winner(s) lifetime rent to the parcel they improve? (I know you have something like that in existence, but I'm not insider enough to remember the details.)

Mike Haasl wrote:
Maybe there could be a "Boot Gardener" program.  Like the Bootcamp but you're doing this garden thing instead of boot work?  No pay during the competition (food and lodging instead) but the rewards are still there in the end.  If you had 6 Gardening Boots it would save the $50,400 of salary.  But you do have to feed them which isn't free...  Boot Videographer could be another occupation.  No pay during the challenge but a big check at the end when it's delivered.

This seems reasonable, if only for the fact that there's already a way of doing this in place, rather than starting a new "farmer camp program", with those folks fending for themselves? And if the food is feeding the Boots anyways...
There's also opportunities for "farm boots" to do/learn all the other bootcamp stuff, or to take turns being each other's videographers/interviewers.

Maybe there could also be a rewards level to enter into a "home game" where someone *anywhere* could participate, at their scale, for a prize(s) pro-rated on a square foot basis? (1M K cals./ 43560 sqft. = 23 K cals. per sqft.)
A prize based upon yield/plot size pro-rated from full amount for an acre, down to actual plot sizes?
Minimum plot size, probably? Freshly broken ground vs. established plots? prescribed crops, definitely. Minimum video requirements, record-keeping, etc.
Maybe one person is most efficient at making 1/4 or 1/2 acre produce well, rather than a full acre? Could be a way of finding this out...

T Simpson wrote:Could you compete in it yourself Paul? You could be the permaculture control group, have one less gardener to pay and have a shot at keeping any final prize money as the operating capital.

Maybe me and the bootcamp?

Christopher Weeks wrote:Could you reduce the capital outlay needed by aiming the project at young people who aren't so tied to established lives and maybe instead of paying them, grant the winner(s) lifetime rent to the parcel they improve? (I know you have something like that in existence, but I'm not insider enough to remember the details.)

With the pay, i am hoping that 100 people apply and we pick the best 5.

For what you suggest, i would think it would be less than 5 that would apply.

Maybe the thing for the bonuses could be open to other residents.  So somebody could have an ant village plot and they compete for the $5000 as well as the $20,000.

??

paul wheaton wrote:Here is a video of mine from a long time ago:


The amount of food for one person for one year is roughly a million calories.  

Paul, how does one determine how many calories you have harvested?
is it weight per apple, per corn cob, per sun choke, and there is a table somewhere that provides calories per weight or how is this successfully counted?

Weigh the food.  Ask google how many calories per pound for that food.  

A pound of apples has 237 calories.     Suppose you harvest 200 pounds.  That's 47,400 calories.

I was mulling over how to raise $200,000 for this project. Here is what I think might work: ads in the beginning and end of the video. So a one to two minute ad like you would see on Public Broadcasting Service (PBS) or YouTube. Something like this episode is brought to you by______. But sell the ad time in ten seconds bits. It could help with the cost but it would take work to get it going. Another idea I had was tool tips/gardening tips. A short video about a tool or a way of doing something from the person on there plot. A good example is "Adam Savage's Favorite Tools" of YouTube.

Not sure I wanna spill my secrets, but it would need about 1,000 watts.  

A gardener in general might want a chainsaw for bringing hugelbed wood over to the site.

paul wheaton wrote:

Can you use some electricity for tools or only hand tools?

Can you give me an idea of where you think somebody would use a powerful electric tool to help with gardening?

So if I got to transplant in mature nut trees and also plant some seeds to replace the trees later, I could win the contest and also make you happy in terms of long-term goals?  

paul wheaton wrote:

Are you allowed to plant trees as part of your garden?

This is an excellent question.  After all, this is about demonstrating permaculture.  

Somehow I want the plots to have a thousand fruit/nut/legume tree seeds and pits planted - all so there will be a budding food jungle in a few years.  So how does this get worked out?  The harvest from that won't be for several years.  

Overall, as much as I want this to be a part, I cannot see a way ...  Other than to lay out hopes for a future kickstarter, seven years in the future that counts calories again.  Maybe even calories per hour of effort.

Sounds like a Fukuoka experiment! How cool!!

I've only seen you discuss salary as included in the expenses. What about infrastructure set up? Will these farmers borrow wheaton labs trucks, etc? Will they pay for their own mulch/seed/chainsaws/irrigation?

Will you allow foraging in part of the total million calories?

Devil's advocate... its quite un-permaculture-y of this experiment to say all 20 crops must be from growies. Unless we are trying to attract a vegan crowd here. Or a garden-only crowd?  It would be so much more interesting to allow one of the 20 crops to be animal-based, if desired. Think of the potential drama it could add to the show. Watching potatoes grow is not that catch-y...

What will the farmers do with the generated produce? 5 million+ calories for 5 people could create a surplus problem at different harvest times, if they don't have an avenue to sell or store their food.

I'm only asking so many questions because I think it's an amazing idea, and I hope it works. Entertainments that pushes a problem-solving agenda?? Seriously. What media could be better?

If the applicants don't like re-locating to Montana, please consider taking long-distance apps. It could easily be promoted through networking with other gardeners who have large followings already!

Here's a really evil thought, but I think you'll like it.

Year one is 1 million calories.
Year 2 is 2 million (?)

If you win year one but lose year two, you have to forfeit your prize money to the pot.  If you win year 2 you get double year one.  And so forth.

In other words, if your horticulture is extractive at any point, you get penalized.

If you build soil each year, you are extra rewarded.

The monetary incentives seem kind of silly compared to the inherent value incentive, but financial incentives may help strengthen focus on the need to make longterm decisions.  

Or it could be adjudicated in year 1 and if your soil test shows you depleted the soil you get penalized.


If no one wins year

paul wheaton wrote:

Inge Leonora-den Ouden wrote:Well, I do like experiments and challenges. Especially to watch them on videos.

This experiment will be good to show skeptics that it's possible to have a good yield of calories from non-conventional agriculture.

But there are reasons why I would not want to support this challenge. From my point of view this can not be Permaculture. This challenge is all about calories in a year, so it's about growing only annuals. Permaculture has to do with the long term ('permanent'). The first years the perennials, bushes and trees will not yet give the best yield; that will take more time.
And ... it is not only 'calories' that make nutrition. What about minerals and vitamins?
And, as I see it, Permaculture is not about cleaning a plot to 'bare dirt' and then starting to garden. One of the principles is to use what there is ...

I think this first year would be a stepping stone to future years.  And with each year there can be a different focus - a different set of standards.  

It is possible that the whole project does so well the first year, that we can talk about the standards for the second year.  And the people working the plots will begin to plant stuff for the second year in the late summer of the first year.  Or in the fall.  

I suppose that we could make it a requirement for the first year to have an overlayed plan for double calories in seven years with a fraction of the effort.  

I think we need to up the goal a little.

A quick google search showed potatoes have a 347 calories/ pound and yields for commercial farms in the US run between 24,500 and 61,000 pounds of potatoes per acre (http://kenoshapotato.com).  Using the bottom yield (24,500 lbs/acre) that would give us a bit over 8.5 million calories/per acre.  

shelled corn yields around 15 million calories/ acre  (average yield in the us is about 170 bushels/ acre, 56 lb/bushel, a bit over 1600 calories/ lb)   170 x56X1600 = 15,232,00 calories/ acre.  (note, when looking up calories for corn, look up dried corn or corn meal.   Sweet corn (not dried) has a much lower calorie/ lb due to the water.  I used calorie data from https://www.nutritionix.com/food/cornmeal/lb).

So, I'm guessing if you planted 1/8 acre of potatoes, 1/8 acre for corn, and 3/4 of an acre for all the cool stuff you want to eat (melon, squash, beans, peas, berries, etc.) you should make a million calories/ acre pretty easy.  (Armchair farming is amazingly easy, no aching back, no bugs).  

pinto beans can make better than 2 million calories/ acre.  (average yield in Idaho is 1500 - 2000 lbs/acre (https://ipmdata.ipmcenters.org/documents/cropprofiles/IDdrybeans.pdf) with about 1570 calories per dry pound).  1500 *1570 = 2.361.969 calories/ acre

Even lettuce can make more than a million calories/ acre (63 calories/ lb, 36,000 lbs/ acre (https://nevegetable.org/cultural-practices/table-15-approximate-yields) for over 2 million calories/ acre.

I'm wanting to try this on my own property (Cache Valley, Idaho) next summer.  I arrived in my new (hopefully final) home last August and am looking forward to planting a HUUUUGE garden.  I'm in the process of buying the two acres of pasture behind me to add to the acre my house is on, over half of which has been goat pasture for many years.  I've ordered 30 red maples (partly just for the color), 30 saw toothed oak and 30 mulberry trees for the coppicing or pollarding on part of the back lot.  Also in the plan are lots of peach, plum, apple, pear and apricot trees as well as just about any kind of berries this area will allow.  I'm hoping to do lots of rootstock with grafting for the fruit trees.

In addition to calories, I would be interested in the variety and quality of food I can produce as well as quantity.  I am also interested in the energy input to raise the crop (both fossil fuel and norwegian steam (muscle).  Maybe we could give extra points for variety and perennial/ self seeding foods that required minimal maintenance.  As far as trees go, for the first few years I figure trees will not take up much space.  As they grow and take up more space, we will have a conversion to more perennials, which is what we want in permaculture anyway.  

Paul, would you be willing to restate the particular must-haves of the plan at this point, the specific version that's most lighting you up?  and why you want that particular plan, what it's specifically aimed at measuring?  

I can also take a shot at restating it and you can tell me if it's accurate.

Part of it is that I am still trying to figure out what I want.  

I know that I want it to be here, not remote.

I know that I want it to be a million calories on one acre.   I know I want the quarter acre to be flat and without mulch - as a sort of control.

I know I want something for a 7 year plan.  

I know that I want the gardeners to be paid, and I need to have a pretty good list to choose from before doing the kickstarter.

I feel like a big part of this is to show people that you can grow a lot of food, the very first year, in a cold climate, with really poor soil.  

I like the idea of having a rough plan for similar kickstarters for years 2 through 7.

I like the idea of saying that year one has 20 staple crops.  Plus about 20 other species that must be established for future years.

I like the idea that each of the five have different philosophies.   One can be permaculture, one biodynamic ...  at least one vegan ...  

....    most of all, I am still trying to nail down some general things.  

....  and trying to think through what will be the kickstarter rewards so that we might get enough coin to pull this off.

This sounds really interesting.

I suggest that some $ be given just to participate, for startup expenses so that gardeners have $ to get the water system, fence, tools, equipment to initially clear and shape the garden.   So that you are starting with just soil.  

And since, 'conventional' gardening requires that fertilizer / nutrients are imported and pests managed with chemical controls this too will require maintenance $ money.    

A comparison of costs could be a really great measurement to include in the outcome.

No one starts with Just "dirt", soils have differing amounts and qualities of micro-organisms in them.
And depending on water availability, rates of evaporation and life in the soil differing rates of decomposition.

Would the gardeners be form all over the world to show how Permaculture can works better than conventional gardening everywhere?

The deer, groundhogs and rabbits eat my garden.  But deer are also my main source of above ground poop (indigenous microbe inoculate).  So, I would want to control the timing of when deer can access the garden with the fence, not keep them out entirely.  

Which brings me to animals.  Are large domestic and / or wild animals: birds, ruminants for manure, pest control, above ground material breakdown...)  going to be part of this test?      What type of animals and the timing of them might vary a great deal.

There may be as many variations in systems as there are gardens set up in permaculture.
Comparing the same size garden of conventional to permaculture at each site could show that permaculture works better all over the world at less cost.  However, what you may see is that the initial year or two the conventional garden produces more food.
Whereas the change in soil fertility and costs really start differ after a couple of years.  Also, while organic / permaculture harvest may show more insect damage than conventional, the Nutrient Value in the permaculture garden would I presume be far superior.

So Cost and Nutrient Value, Diversity of Foods grown, Soil improvement level (which soil has more life in it, more humus, more carbon capture)   Should Calories be the only thing compared?  

This is a very interesting and fun idea. One thing I'm curious about is beginning in April. I'm also in a cold place with a short growing season. For me, gardening begins in the dead of winter, planning/dreaming and ordering seeds, and then I start many of those seeds in late winter (that is, late March). In April, if the snow has melted enough, there are some things I can direct sow, but I mostly wait til May (and for some things, the end of May - I'm sure you know about late frosts and late snow storms).

So will you start seeds for them? Or is the idea that, on April 1 or whenever they start, they'll choose their seeds and start some? (In my climate, that isn't too late to start.) Will they have a place to do that indoors, with lights/warmth? Or do you imagine the majority of the first-year plantings will be things that don't need starting indoors (which, to be fair, are the calorie-heavy crops anyway), along with those seven-year-plan items?