permaculture bootcamp - learn permaculture through a little hard work

We are now ready to grow the bootcamp to 20 people.

This is not official.  More like it is a probable direction.  Posting it here for feedback.

The current dealio is that when a person hits the two year mark, they get an acre of deep roots.  (for maybe six plots?  ten?)

The bootcamp need folks to run the bootcamp - so it makes sense that it would be the people that have been here for more than a year.  

Further, with each month that a boot is here, their value to the project grows.   So their last six months here is probably of greater value than the previous 18 months combined.

Another thing is that we need people to lead the bootcamp with five, ten or even fifteen years of experience in the bootcamp.  


Proposition BC007:  Any boot that is here for more than a year must take on a commander role.  This means management of the bootcamp and leading new boots on projects.

Proposition BC008:  After two years and getting the acre, a boot can continue in the bootcamp half time, in a commander role, and receive regular boot bennies (food, bunk, etc.)  

Proposition BC008.1:  This time must be scheduled at least a week in advance to be predictable and able to be figured into schedules by the other commanders.  And it must be a minimum of 20 hours per week.

Proposition BC008.2:  Any time beyond 20 hours is compensated for with 2 fysh per hour.



Wuddya think?

That is awesome =)

I just got a suggestion:

BC007.1: If a boot doesn't want to take on a commander role, they can substitute with an extra 12 months to still get to Deep Roots

I think that sounds fair.

paul wheaton wrote:I just got a suggestion:

BC007.1: If a boot doesn't want to take on a commander role, they can substitute with an extra 12 months to still get to Deep Roots

I think that sounds fair.

I think it's a good idea, too! Not everyone is good at leading, but might be a fantastic worker and community member. I think it makes sense to give those people a way to stick around that doesn't destroy the community or suck their soul dry. Having a leader who's bad at leading/coordinating probably won't help anyone, especially if they're stuck doing it for a year.

I do think you have a lot of awesome, leader-y Boots, and many will likely take on this challenge.

Maybe also grandfather in those who signed before these new ideas, so they don't have to work an extra year to get Deep Roots?

Proposition BC008:  After two years and getting the acre, a boot can continue in the bootcamp half time, in a commander role, and receive regular boot bennies (food, bunk, etc.)  

I think this is an awesome idea! I like that they have a way to stick around with their necessities met while they contribute in a less-time-intensive roll (more time for their own plot!). But, it's roll that really helps the community a lot, and the community doesn't lose all the wisdom and knowledge they have under their belt.

I think this is brilliant!

paul wheaton wrote:We are now ready to grow the bootcamp to 20 people.

That is to say, we have spread the bootcamp out so there are two bootcamps:  one at the lab and one at basecamp.   And we have designed them so we can expand.

So we are ready for more boots.  

Further, the last email going out to people on the waiting list said we were ready for four more boots - and we got just one.   So now is a really good time to get signed up.

If we responded to the email about the open spots, should we have gotten a response back yet or is that still to come? Just want to make sure my response was received since I know there are sometimes email issues!

Magdalene Bolton wrote:If we responded to the email about the open spots, should we have gotten a response back yet or is that still to come? Just want to make sure my response was received since I know there are sometimes email issues!

I suspect you will get a response in an hour or two.  

paul wheaton wrote:

Magdalene Bolton wrote:If we responded to the email about the open spots, should we have gotten a response back yet or is that still to come? Just want to make sure my response was received since I know there are sometimes email issues!

I suspect you will get a response in an hour or two.  

Did you hear from lara?

Yes I did! thank you. I just got back with her a few minutes ago

I can not figure out where this place is located? As in what state?

Marcia Everett wrote:I can not figure out where this place is located? As in what state?

Hi Marcia, we’re in Montana.

Montana.   Near missoula.

I'm seriously loving the view into Bootcamp that Dez gives in his Bootcamp thread.

Paul's expression is perfect! I love how much fun everyone is having driving into town

Movie night! This time they're watching Batman. Other movies were Brave, various permaculture films, and other just fun movies

Hi-ho, Hi-ho, it's off to work they go! This picture is just epic and I couldn't resist sharing it!

If you're wondering what life is like at Wheaton Labs, Dez's thread is a great place to look. As of current count, he's posted 282 days! His thread is almost a year of life in Bootcamp!

Josiah just posted some group pictures of everyone in Bootcamp (I think Jennifer is snapping the picture!)

Silly picture!

I love how Paul goes from grimacing in the first picture, to grimacing harder in the second one

Magdalene Bolton wrote:I love how Paul goes from grimacing in the first picture, to grimacing harder in the second one

I'm trying to smile for the camera.  

It turns out that I am not a model - even though I dress so sharp.

Only a little hard work? I'm more of a mid to lots of hard work kind of guy.

Ralph Mueller wrote:Only a little hard work? I'm more of a mid to lots of hard work kind of guy.

Then you'll have spare energy to work on your own plot!

(A good example of this is Orin, who joined bootcamp and spent his spare time working on his plot. Now he's putting all his energy into his own plot of land, and totally rockin' it! Here's his thread about Bootcamp and his work on his own plot)

About a week ago somebody compared the bootcamp to a wwoof or workaway thing.  I felt it was an unfair comparison because wwoof and workaway are things where you come and work and the person you work for derives a product and sells the product.  Once the product is derived, then the work trade person is sent down the road.   With the bootcamp, the boot is is growing food for current and future boots and building housing for current and future boots.  I think something like 95% or more of boot effort is for the boots.  

But I could be biased.

So I asked several of the boots to pick a number:  what percentage of boot effort is for the boots - current and/or future boots?  I asked them to take several days to think about it to make sure their numbers are rock solid.  Yesterday Dez and Magdalene gave me some feedback:

   Dez:  "90% to 95%" - although he couldn't name what the extra 5% to 10% was

   Magdalene:  "100%" - because she couldn't think what the non-boot stuff would be

I like the idea that the bootcamp is big success and that ten years from now a thousand permaculture properties will have their own bootcamps too.  

For now, I would like to invite all the people who have ever been here, and all the people that follow and all the people that support the bootcamp BRK and anybody reading these words:  what number would you choose and why?

I would say that 95% of  Boots spend 95% of their time working on things that directly benefit Boots.   Because: it depends on the Boot =)  

When I visited (it was very short-term but I wanted anything I could get!) there were woofers there, too. I got to see both sides and learned more than my brain could process.  Boots were assigned to work on the Wofati Greenhouse, and boots were occasionally helping with the Abby (which, if I remember correctly, is NOT a boot benefit).  Then again, the lessons working on the Abby and making Cob were beneficial in an educational sense but not in a 'this project will benefit me directly' sense.

I could never fully enjoy the Boot Benes because of my medically required diet- I cannot eat the plant-based diet and live well.  So while I worked I was learning, but was relying on outside resources.  As much as I want to spend 6-12 months being a boot, I would have to provide a lot of my own food (and take the time to prepare it separately, daily- leaving me with far less time to actually enjoy being a boot).  

As a more outside-observer, I had issue with lost productivity (i.e. re-working the patio, too many Heugel Beds not producing well, planting with poor pest management.)  Reflection has provided insight in that this is part of the design of Wheaton Lab: Boots have choices in what they do, so choose what they enjoy and what gets short-term "PEP" badges, sometimes over what is most beneficial and productive; which is another way of saying they do what benefits the individual whether or not it most benefits the whole Boot Camp.  Much is learned making mistakes =)

Briana Great wrote: Boots were assigned to work on the Wofati Greenhouse, and boots were occasionally helping with the Abby (which, if I remember correctly, is NOT a boot benefit).  Then again, the lessons working on the Abby and making Cob were beneficial in an educational sense but not in a 'this project will benefit me directly' sense.

I could be wrong about this, but I think that--unless it's being rented out--Allerton Abbey is inhabited by boots, and they would be the ones using and benefiting from the greenhouse. So, I think 90%+ of the time, it'd be Boots benefiting from the greenhouse. Granted, I'm not at Wheaton Labs, so I could be off in my estimates!

paul wheaton wrote:About a week ago somebody compared the bootcamp to a wwoof or workaway thing.  I felt it was an unfair comparison because wwoof and workaway are things where you come and work and the person you work for derives a product and sells the product.  Once the product is derived, then the work trade person is sent down the road.   With the bootcamp, the boot is is growing food for current and future boots and building housing for current and future boots.  I think something like 95% or more of boot effort is for the boots.  ...

   .....For now, I would like to invite all the people who have ever been here, and all the people that follow and all the people that support the bootcamp BRK and anybody reading these words:  what number would you choose and why?

I like facts. Although, people can find an infinite number of stories to fit the facts, I still like facts. Here's my facts and story to fit them.

First fact to consider:
1- Paul isn't going to the Bahamas and enjoying scantily clad crowds. Nope, he's pretty much in his office EVERY SINGLE DAY. So how's he getting something a Boot isn't?  Everyone is human, but this fact is the first fact I point out. This suggests to me he is serious and sincere in his attempts.

2-As a  Boot, there is project time, nest time, and your time. If you don't use your time to benefit yourself directly, Paul will try to fill it. Nest time keeps your living space from feeling like disaster and despair. Project time is mainly to bring in kickstarter monies. How else do you think he feeds the Boots, covers vehicle maintenance, tools, and property maintenance?  So even if you think the project isn't for Boot benefit, you'd be wrong atleast in the immediate sense that there would be no Boot Camp.

3- Your time. Defend it and use it. Make a list of all the things you want to do at Wheaton Labs, verify your want list will also be beneficial to WL. Then get fysh, pick your lot after a month, complete your list on your plot while still in the Boot Camp. After 4 months, leave the Boot Camp to gain full time freedom to finish your list. Make sure the work you do on your plot can be used by the next person if you do not intend to stay long term.

Clayton had so many fysh he paid me off for work done in 12 fysh so don't tell me it can't be done. I certainly did it. You can whine but I am not hearing it.

Given these facts my story is that there maybe inefficiencies, projects may seem to drag on, some people question the projects themselves.  Okay. You'd do things differently than Paul does and people would complain about your human failings publicly and loudly. See fact 1. Paul is doing the things Paul knows how to do them in a Paul way and he is sincere.

 Since he is sincere, a Boot can help Paul either by becoming an Ant and creating their own cool permaculture thing or they can stay in the Boot Camp and do their best to effect Paul's efforts in the Deep Roots programs.

Final fact: learn to negotiate with someone who is very smart and clever. Practice with a friend. You as a Boot will get a great deal out of the Boot Camp AND so will Wheaton Labs.

That aint no story and it isn't a fact you can ignore.

Failure to learn to negotiate will result in a lot of hard feelings, if you have any awareness any intelligence, learn to negotiate.  I taught Clayton how and I can teach you too if you need help.

You can also put your own band together if you don't like the venue and see if you can do a quartet, rock and roll, or whatever kind of permaculture you like.

So 100% CAN benefit both the Boot and WL. If the Boot doesn't negotiate, doesn't understand the projects are financial support for the Boot Camp, then a percentage is lost due to that friction.  It depends on the Boot and how the other Boots react to the individual Boot. So I won't name the percentage cause that's on you, the Boot.

So, if I bring my disabled wife, will she be fed to the bears? The kids will be off to their own lives (WHEW).

I am about to retire from the military and in approximately 3 years will be uprooting my wife and myself to move to another state.  Once we sell our current homestead, I'd love to come and spend some time working and learning (and eating PIE) with Paul and the crew. The big problem is my wife is disabled and even though she will be able to help around the house, some gardening, and caring for animals; she wouldn't be able to be relied upon for the entire time we'd be there or any long term strenuous labor. Most days she's perfectly able to keep up with our current homestead but some days she's lucky to be able to get out of bed.  Financially, we can swing providing our own food and basic needs, but she'd get bored just sitting around our future RV. Possible exchange for what she can do for COIN?

My main goal is to expose her to permaculture living to include living in a WOFATI and using a RMH. I see the vision, but she needs reassuring.  I also need some "eyes on" to determine how to build my own WOFATI and hands on with a RMH build.  If I were to be involved in a WOFATI build, that would be a bonus!

Would the BootCamp program be a good fit for us or is there an alternative program that would be a better fit? We'd probably want to stay for about 14 months, part of the reason we're moving is to get away from the cold so a Deep Roots package really isn't what we're after. A short term vacation renting a WOFATI wouldn't provide the scope she'd need, although living in one together (of course renting it) over the winter would be a necessity. Are there long-term rental agreements for a Boot?

This is complicated and I'm sure I'm leaving out some important details...

I think the SEPPer program would be best.  

https://permies.com/t/146557/permaculture-projects/sepper-program-permaculture-bootcamp-experience

https://permies.com/wiki/sepper

I think this is a really good thread: https://permies.com/t/146557/sepper-program-permaculture-bootcamp-experience

It's basically about how you (Nick) can be in Bootcamp with free food and joining in all the epic activities, and your wife would be part of the SEPPer program (basically renting). Since you have your RV, the renting part is pretty cheap--just $200 per month. If your wife is good at editing/making videos, she could easily pay for rent  by making a video or two a month (see this thread: https://permies.com/t/161921/permaculture-projects/pay-videos-youtube-channel).

And, on her good days, she potentially can join in bootcamp for half a day, with all the perks that brings. If you guys are there for 4+ months, you won't need to pay tenting rent any more, and you'll be able to have your own plot for her to garden in, etc, when she's feeling up to it.

I hope that helps answer some questions!

Thanks Paul and Nicole! We’ll look into both.

Expectations of boots during events:

If it is an event where we have a cook, you get to eat what is cooked - yay!  Less cooking and less dishes!  BUT!  In exchange, you are expected to help with meals:

   - moving the food to and from the classroom
   - caring for the dishwashing station
   - general care of the tables (table cloths, forgotten dishes, etc.)
   - harvesting food for the events

Most of this happens outside of boot time, and is in addition to boot time.  This is in exchange for having food cooked for you instead of cooking your own food.  The only boot time that is allowed is 11:45am to noon.   It is expected that boots will help for 15 minutes before each meal is served at 7am, noon and 6pm.  And boots will help move the serving dishes back up at 25 minutes after the food is served.


The boots are not required to help with food prep or washing the stuff used for cooking or serving.  But they are welcome to be part of that outside of boot time if they want to.


During events, there will be some boot time dedicated to keeping the events running smoothly.  Typically 15 to 60 minutes per day for most events.  A bit of tidy or maintenance.  Or maybe gopher duty.  For events like the PTJ or SKIP events, nearly all of the boot day might be dedicated to the events, but in a way that probably falls into the space of natural building or homesteading.  

The BRK just got a huge boost of an additional $2000 in bitcoin.  It is now something like $3800!

https://permies.com/wiki/brk

So I guess that if a person comes for 100 days, they can get 100 days of permaculture experiences, plus an event ticket (or two), plus a nice heap of coin!  

For all of you boots wannabes out there, here's a short version of all the things you could be working on and helping with when you're there. To see the full movie when is ready, go here.

Hello!

I think there might be an email mix up ... my paypal email is not my permies email. I haven't received an email in either of them yet.

Keeping an eye out for the questionnaire - it's only been like 24 hours but I am excited to move forward on this!

I also had a question for Paul --

I'd love to invest long term into WL -- and I'm still trying to figure out what would be best for me.

It seems like the new proposals to the Boot to Root means a Boot would need to either ;
A) work two years as a boot, and then work 20 hrs a week in a commander type role to gain a plot of Deep Roots (and also have boot bennies) , or
B) work three years as a boot to gain a plot of Deep Roots.

I also would want to bring my dog with me, and I'm curious what would be best to accommodate her for the winters. Last I read the FPH is off limits to animals.
She is an australian shepherd mix, loves every human / dog / cat -- loves to chase squirrels / rabbits , and growls at deer / elk / bison.
She is very laid back, sleeps a lot of the day - but she also loves hiking, climbing rocks, laying in streams.

I'd be willing to work out whatever terms necessary to have her with me.
I'd probably leave her with family for my first month as a Boot - but if I wanted to stay on, I'd want to figure out a plan that everyone was happy with.

Hi Tayln!

I know Paul is super busy with finishing up the SKIP book right now. So it could be that he's buried in emails. Another thing could be that your paypal email is a hotmail/outlook/msn email. For some reason, those email providers suddenly started blocking all of Paul's emails (and most other emails coming from @permies.com or @richsoil.com).

Could you PM me your other email address? That way I can verify with Paul that you paid, and we can make sure you get the questionnaire. Thank you!

Talyn Crafts wrote:I think there might be an email mix up ... my paypal email is not my permies email. I haven't received an email in either of them yet.

I'm glad you spoke up.  The error is entirely mine.   I have now sent you the bootcamp greeting stuff and I have given you a copy of my book to make up for my error - I hope you enjoy it.

I'd love to invest long term into WL -- and I'm still trying to figure out what would be best for me.

It seems like the new proposals to the Boot to Root means a Boot would need to either ;
A) work two years as a boot, and then work 20 hrs a week in a commander type role to gain a plot of Deep Roots (and also have boot bennies) , or
B) work three years as a boot to gain a plot of Deep Roots.

I think if nothing else it would be wise to come to the bootcamp and put in two months - to get the lay of the land and an understanding of how you might want to proceed.   I think a lot of people feel anybody can build anything, and an unskilled person can build a tiny house in two weeks.   I hope that, in time, we make a wofati book (and movie) that is so good that there might be a lot of truth to that.  Until then, I have seen some ants get started and quickly learn that it is a bigger task than they thought - and step away.  

I also would want to bring my dog with me, and I'm curious what would be best to accommodate her for the winters. Last I read the FPH is off limits to animals.

I think the default plan would be cooper cabin.  We have allowed dogs in there in the past.  But, with some time here, maybe you get a better idea.

The next round of invitations for new boots will be sent out on September 26th to invite boots to arrive October 17th.