permaculture bootcamp - learn permaculture through a little hard work

See you March 3rd!

I'm new to permies as a whole (just came across it today, through old forums posts while researching black locust durability for a project establishing a  platform bird feeder at my current work). I fell down the rabbit hole into everything so fast, and I've been feasting my eyes and brain since.

It didn't take long to read more into wheaton labs and come across information about bootcamp.

I'm a recent college graduate (BS in fish and wildlife management) who went to school in a rural mountain town taking classes on plant taxonomy, dendrology, and all things wildlife, now working my first full time 9-5 job as a naturalist educator. Most of my formal education was painfully lacking in how to connect and apply natural knowledge in the ways permaculture just is. This should be a dream, work I should enjoy in my field, steady pay, learning more about the Appalachians and sharing love for nature with others. Instead, most of what I'm learning is that I can't live like this , don't want to, and feel ingenuine trying.

I'm joyously aware that I don't know much, but I know I only wish to measure my life in lessons, experiences, and community. In relationships, with others and the land.
Bootcamp seems like a place to spend some time in.

That's a pretty longwinded way (I blame the rambling on just being oh-so inspired stumbling through this forum) of saying I'm interested in learning more about the bootcamp program and if it would actually be a good fit.

I will be leaving my job in march to through-hike the AT until august or september. My free time that's not spent preparing for the trail, is mostly spent dreaming of what I might do after.

I'm pretty broke now, and only gonna get broker while hiking, so I'm hesitant to drop $100 completely blind now without talking to anyone from wheaton labs about it. Of course, i could lurk for a year or so and then have this conversation, but I like longer-term plans and I want to understand if this is a serious option for me.

Hi Ell, welcome to Permies!

Did you already check out the Permaculture Bootcamp page at wheaton-labs.com?

There is a great FAQ written my Paul that might answer some of your questions! If not, this thread is the place to ask about all the things you are wondering about the bootcamp!

Ell Muriano wrote:I'm new to permies as a whole (just came across it today, through old forums posts while researching black locust durability for a project establishing a  platform bird feeder at my current work). I fell down the rabbit hole into everything so fast, and I've been feasting my eyes and brain since.

It didn't take long to read more into wheaton labs and come across information about bootcamp.

I'm a recent college graduate (BS in fish and wildlife management) who went to school in a rural mountain town taking classes on plant taxonomy, dendrology, and all things wildlife, now working my first full time 9-5 job as a naturalist educator. Most of my formal education was painfully lacking in how to connect and apply natural knowledge in the ways permaculture just is. This should be a dream, work I should enjoy in my field, steady pay, learning more about the Appalachians and sharing love for nature with others. Instead, most of what I'm learning is that I can't live like this , don't want to, and feel ingenuine trying.

I'm joyously aware that I don't know much, but I know I only wish to measure my life in lessons, experiences, and community. In relationships, with others and the land.
Bootcamp seems like a place to spend some time in.

That's a pretty longwinded way (I blame the rambling on just being oh-so inspired stumbling through this forum) of saying I'm interested in learning more about the bootcamp program and if it would actually be a good fit.

I will be leaving my job in march to through-hike the AT until august or september. My free time that's not spent preparing for the trail, is mostly spent dreaming of what I might do after.

I'm pretty broke now, and only gonna get broker while hiking, so I'm hesitant to drop $100 completely blind now without talking to anyone from wheaton labs about it. Of course, i could lurk for a year or so and then have this conversation, but I like longer-term plans and I want to understand if this is a serious option for me.

You'll probably come across the recommendation to listen to a bunch of Paul's podcasts to get an idea of how he runs his benign dictatorship there, but another good way to get a feel for the actual bootcamp would be to follow Stephen's boot thread. He will be the boot commander through at least most of this year, and that thread shows the kind of daily activities that go on. Personal chemistry is never guaranteed, but I think Stephen does a great job working with everyone.

Winter can be a good time there if you would like more quiet personal time, as well as to experience the wonderful reality of many rocket mass heaters, but obviously spring and summer will offer more opportunities for social interaction with events and usually more fellow boots dropping in...

Thank you both for the stepping stones here! I'll keep gathering information for now and hoard any questions until I have a few to ask. Stay warm!

Hello everyone, this looks amazing! I'm very interested in the bootcamp. I looked through the FAQs and couldn't find the answer to this question: I'm Canadian and I wonder about what I would tell the border people regarding whether I'm entering the country to work. Since there are all these great opportunities to make "coin". But I don't think I can legally work if I'm just visiting, would I need a work visa? Does anyone have any experience or insight on this topic that they can share? Thank you!

I would approach that conversation with this mindset...

--‐You're coming here for an educational experience.---

Any side hustle coin you manage to earn isn't going to be much unless you stay for months and months, so don't worry about it and don't say anything about it.

That being said, be smart about how you get paid... cash or bitcoin being the 2 best options.

Brian Doherty wrote:I would approach that conversation with this mindset...

--‐You're coming here for an educational experience.---

Any side hustle coin you manage to earn isn't going to be much unless you stay for months and months, so don't worry about it and don't say anything about it.

That being said, be smart about how you get paid... cash or bitcoin being the 2 best options.

Ok, thanks!

some Q's from email

what are the requirements for Boots to earn land? On average, how long does it take?

Currently, two years to get one acre of deep roots.  Although I think we are coming up on the time to make that 30 months (2.5 years).  So people arriving now would get the two years deal.

How many boots have successfully earned land?

Two.  Fred and Dez.  Although Stephen is getting close.

Are Boots given permission to order goods online and have them delivered there? Or are trips to town necessary.

We all order stuff and it gets delivered to basecamp.

If we CAN send items there, would u b willing to hold until I get there?

we do that a lot.  No problem.

I do not have a tent. Is it advisable to bring if considering long term or are Boots automatically given a cabin?

First, boots get a warm bunk all winter.  That bunk might end up being on the floor of cooper cabin for a week during a winter event, but for the most part, all of the boots have had a warm bunk (and sometimes their own private cabin) all winter.  During the summer months, all the cabins tend to get rented for the summer events - so boots either move into a tent or they grab a patch of cooper cabin.  Although a few boots have enjoyed the couch balcony.  

We provide a tent if you don't have one.

 For long term women, please ask them “if you knew now what you didn’t know then, how would u have packed different?”…. N let me know please. I’m assuming formal wear and heels are out ( unless you need a hammering tool and fire kindle) but I’m apparently confusing myself.

https://permies.com/t/190414/factory-women-thinking-coming-wheaton

I have extra organic food but am concerned ( if in a tent) I may be fighting critters. Is there a secure storage area for renters or do u have advise on best food storage practices.

Every boot gets a cubby in the fisher price house and a cubby in the library.  If you are gonna store food in your tent, it needs to be in something bear proof and don't leave crumbs in the tent.  Generally, I wouldn't store food in a tent.

How much is it to rent a shack per week?

https://permies.com/wiki/sepper

Do you teach how to dig wells? What is your water source? Do U have a pond on your land?

We can talk, at meals, about the wells that have been hand dug.  There is one that was "enhanced" to the point that i think it is no longer working.  But we now have a brand new, professional well at the lab (2000 gallons per day) and a new well at basecamp (infinite water per day).

We currently have one pond, although stephen wants there to be a LOT of pond action over the next two months.

This is an awesome program! I have two cats, and I see some photos of cats on site, so would my cats be okay to stay with me as a boot? Is there any option where that would work? Thanks

We have had several boots do fine with bringing their own cats.

I just registered for a bootcamp but I dont know any other details, like, when etc?  Will someone be contacting me?

You will be contacted after you registered/paid to start the conversation to get the whole ball rolling. You will be provided a series of dates that you can start as well as what you would like to accomplish as a boot.

Nicole Eidson wrote:I just registered for a bootcamp but I dont know any other details, like, when etc?  Will someone be contacting me?

Hi Nicole,

It looks like there are two accounts with your name. The emails have been sent to the email address of your other account that was created for you when you paid the registration fee and probably were not logged in to Permies.

When you paid your monies, you should have seen a big link to a questionnaire.  Did you see that?

Unfortunately, my paypal account is on one email and my permies login is on another.    I didn't see a link after, it just said my paypal transaction has been processed successfully.  I have checked both emails and I dont see anything with information.  

Nicole Eidson wrote:Unfortunately, my paypal account is on one email and my permies login is on another.    I didn't see a link after, it just said my paypal transaction has been processed successfully.  I have checked both emails and I dont see anything with information.  

researching ....

It seems a second account was made for your gmail account.  

I emailed beau to see if he would be so kind as to merge the two accounts.

Beau says the accounts are merged!

Go to

https://permies.com/wiki/180274/Permaculture-Bootcamp-Wheaton-Labs-Registration

and scroll down a little - you should see a link to the questionnaire.

from email

Do you have need for extra clothing or fabric or blankets?( a type of barter? Need based? Income generator?). Are there general items that could always be of use? Does anyone sew?

We have the free shelf.  We do keep a good inventory of blankets and stuff.  

I think everybody can sew, but different folks are more inclined than others.  And we have had some people come through in the last few months that have done some excellent mending!

Doitdoitdoitdoitdoit!  I'm pretty sure someone from the lab would be glad to talk with you.

Also did you listen to any podcast about the bootcamp?  There was an update in 2022 anyway that was super inspiring.  

Worst thing that can happen is you lose a month of your life and a slight bit of debt maybe, but I believe you can do it solvently and it will be a life-changing experience.  My two cents.  If I didn't have a LGD and a flock to take care of here I would go myself.

Elle Muriano wrote:I'm new to permies as a whole (just came across it today, through old forums posts while researching black locust durability for a project establishing a  platform bird feeder at my current work). I fell down the rabbit hole into everything so fast, and I've been feasting my eyes and brain since.

It didn't take long to read more into wheaton labs and come across information about bootcamp.

I'm a recent college graduate (BS in fish and wildlife management) who went to school in a rural mountain town taking classes on plant taxonomy, dendrology, and all things wildlife, now working my first full time 9-5 job as a naturalist educator. Most of my formal education was painfully lacking in how to connect and apply natural knowledge in the ways permaculture just is. This should be a dream, work I should enjoy in my field, steady pay, learning more about the Appalachians and sharing love for nature with others. Instead, most of what I'm learning is that I can't live like this , don't want to, and feel ingenuine trying.

I'm joyously aware that I don't know much, but I know I only wish to measure my life in lessons, experiences, and community. In relationships, with others and the land.
Bootcamp seems like a place to spend some time in.

That's a pretty longwinded way (I blame the rambling on just being oh-so inspired stumbling through this forum) of saying I'm interested in learning more about the bootcamp program and if it would actually be a good fit.

I will be leaving my job in march to through-hike the AT until august or september. My free time that's not spent preparing for the trail, is mostly spent dreaming of what I might do after.

I'm pretty broke now, and only gonna get broker while hiking, so I'm hesitant to drop $100 completely blind now without talking to anyone from wheaton labs about it. Of course, i could lurk for a year or so and then have this conversation, but I like longer-term plans and I want to understand if this is a serious option for me.

Well, everything finally lined up and I have my ticket out to Missoula, see you all on the 14th!

I may be interested. I did my best to read up on the main site and some of the replies to this post, but I have 4 questions:

1. I’m in the northeastern part of the United States. Do you know the best/cheapest way of getting there or if there is anyone close to my area that may be traveling there and looking for someone else to go with and even help with driving or costs?
2. For those interested in the bootcamp experience, would they need to provide their own food, or if there are 3 meals a day, what type of food is served during those times?
3. Is there any way to know if there are items that are needed? I have some extra unused off-grid things that may be useful.
4. If a person purchases the current $100 bootcamp registration fee, how soon can the person arrive there? I’m assuming it is at only the scheduled times per year. However, if one changes their mind and ends up not going, would there be a refund, or does “nonrefundable” include if one goes or doesn’t go? I ask because, unlike many, I can’t afford, at the moment, to potentially waste anything.

I would also like to help out with this project by supporting it, but I’m also a somewhat private person too, so just seeing if it would be a good fit.

I can answer a couple of those...

2.  Organic food staples are provided and the boots cook their own meals from those staples.  It's vegan fare so if you want meatier things you need to buy that.  Sometimes the boots cook/eat together, other times they act more independently

3.  Possibly?  If you had a list that you could post, someone from Wheaton Labs might comment on if it would be needed

4.  If you pay the $100, you can come any of the scheduled times, assuming they have openings at a particular time.  If you change your mind, you can come later at a scheduled time.  But you don't get your $100 back.

Check greyhound and amtrak for cheaper transportation.

I got my ticket from Portland to Missoula for $50

2. we provide "staples" and the boots mostly cook for themselves.  Although we do have some people stop by from time to time and make fantastic meals for the boots.  

While the staples are mostly vegan, we also supply milk, eggs and canned salmon.  Oh, and yogurt.

4.  once you send the monies and fill out the questionnaire, I will send you a list of dates and see which date is good for you.  You will probably arrive with two other boots.

The current arrival dates are

apr 14
apr 28
may 12
may 26

There are currently two boots scheduled to arrive on the 14th, one on the 28th and several more beyond that.

We have somebody asking what happens if somebody has a one hour zoom meeting every week that happens during boot hours.

In the past, this has come up twice.  Once, the person was already doing huge stuff here way beyond what all the other boots were doing so we just said "no problem."  Another time, we worked something out where the person would do an extra two hours of nest labor on sunday - and it has to be clear to the other boots that this is going on.  

....  cuz that's the biggest concern:  mitigating resentments from the other boots.

So i sat down for a few minutes and talked to stephen.  This is for an incoming boot, so we don't know much about them.  Ended with two possibilities:

1:   be a sepper.  Then you can be in the bootcamp as much or as little as you want.

2:  take one hour off in the middle of the boot week, and replace it with two hours of nest labor.  It gets mentioned to the whole group on the day that is affected and when the group organizes for nest labor.  

Anderson Allen wrote: but I’m also a somewhat private person too, so just seeing if it would be a good fit.

Hi! I have been to Wheaton Labs and to Boot Camp for a week (I was out as a backer for the Wofati Greenhouse =)

Private: totally fine! It's a large space and people are respectful. Dinner is family-style, but much of the day is spent actually working. There is some flexibility some times - you can choose who you buddy up with - but sometimes you just have to do what needs doing with everyone else for the 8 hour days.  Some of us (me) are natural extroverts and will chat, others are quiet and let us carry the conversation.

Antisocial as a BOOT is not gonna work - as you are expected to build community as you learn to build. If you want to be social completely on your terms, that's what SEPPer is for =)

It works!  A lot of people stay for years, many stay for a few weeks.  Keep in mind June and July are going to see A Lot of people come in (Me! ME!) for the PTJ/SKIP and other events =)  if having around 50 people around doing cool things for a few hours is your idea of a nightmare, wait until August =) but most of us come there to learn and DO things.  We're friendly, not nosy.  Nobody got time to be nosy - we got cool things to do!

I am a visual person, so I think that this video helps give an idea to people what they might expect at Wheaton Labs.

I’m scheduled to come out on 8/4 to be a boot but am still waiting for any information like how to find the place. Starting my trip out west in a couple days and would appreciate this info.
Scott Browning

Scott Browning wrote:I’m scheduled to come out on 8/4 to be a boot but am still waiting for any information like how to find the place. Starting my trip out west in a couple days and would appreciate this info.
Scott Browning

Checking!

Usually Stephen sends something about 7 to 10 days before the arrival date.  

Scott Browning wrote:I’m scheduled to come out on 8/4 to be a boot but am still waiting for any information like how to find the place. Starting my trip out west in a couple days and would appreciate this info.
Scott Browning

Incidentally, Welcome to Permies! Here's hoping you have a splendid time at Bootcamp!

hey, I was wondering If you can bring cats with you to the bootcamp program?

Skye Frobese wrote:hey, I was wondering If you can bring cats with you to the bootcamp program?

Yes. We have had a number of boots bring their cats successfully. Sorry about the typo!