Win a bunch of tools from Truly Garden and Loma Creek! this week in the Gear forum!
  • Post Reply Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic
permaculture forums growies critters building homesteading energy monies kitchen purity ungarbage community wilderness fiber arts art permaculture artisans regional education skip experiences global resources the cider press projects digital market permies.com private forums all forums
this forum made possible by our volunteer staff, including ...
master stewards:
  • Nicole Alderman
  • r ranson
  • Anne Miller
  • Pearl Sutton
  • James Freyr
  • Mike Haasl
  • paul wheaton
  • Dave Burton
stewards:
  • Joylynn Hardesty
  • Jocelyn Campbell
  • Joseph Lofthouse
garden masters:
gardeners:
  • Carla Burke
  • Steve Thorn
  • Eric Hanson

!!!!!!! big red neck chicken sick

 
Posts: 59
7
  • Likes 4
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
please help.  One chicken sick.  One chicken starting with same sypmtoms

symptom order:
1. loss feathers at neck back
2. swelling neck back and slightly red.  at base of skull
3. skin goes dry where swelling
4. swelling moves down and on one side of neck
5. chicken says uncomfortable.  eats less.  Feels bad.

I think hen is dying

Not crop issue.  Swelling on back and other side away from crop

Swelling hot.    Infection?

Mullian oil make skin feel better but not helping swelling

What causes this?

Chicken becoming muscovy drake?  Looks like.
 
master steward & author
Posts: 16782
Location: Left Coast Canada
4003
books chicken cooking fiber arts sheep writing
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I'm sad to hear about the chicken.
It's a new one to me.  Hopefully someone here can help
 
master steward
Posts: 5533
Location: Northern WI (zone 4)
1530
hunting trees books food preservation solar woodworking
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I have no idea Ray but do you have a photo to share?
 
ray Bunbury
Posts: 59
7
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
just starting
boy-chicken.jpg
boy chicken
boy chicken
 
ray Bunbury
Posts: 59
7
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
very bad.

but hen want to eat and drink today.  But light wegith so not eating enough.

I made food porage to be easier to ate
very-sick-chicken.jpg
very sick chicken
very sick chicken
 
gardener
Posts: 736
209
personal care gear foraging hunting rabbit chicken cooking food preservation fiber arts medical herbs homestead
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Oh, Ray! I'm so sorry your chickens are suffering, so! Do you have some Echinacea flowers they might like to munch on? Some activated charcoal drawing salve might help draw out an infection, if that's what it is... Some extra nourishment from nettles and fly larvae might help boost their strength, to help them fight it off. Do they look to have any parasites? If so, a dusting with some food grade diatomaceous earth might help, immensely...
 
pollinator
Posts: 162
Location: NorCal
48
hugelkultur cat dog books chicken
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
So sorry about your chicken.  I don't know where you live, but could it have been bitten by something, like a snake, or spider?  That looks very bad.  This is going to be very unpopular with the permies crowd, but if it was my chicken, I would give it antibiotics.  I just wouldn't eat the eggs for a while.  I read you will get the antibiotics in the yoke for about 24 days.  Which is a real bummer, but the poor thing must be suffering, and that seems a little more important.  You can buy antibiotics at the feed and pet store.  I don't know much about natural remedies, so maybe someone will give you a better option.  What ever you decide to do I hope for your hen to get better soon.
 
ray Bunbury
Posts: 59
7
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Thank you.

Antibiotics are sad because they are illegal to buy here.  Only vet can use them and no vet will help chicken.

But if I can know the name of what's wrong, maybe I can get illegal help.  but must be quiet about it.
 
pollinator
Posts: 1172
Location: Victoria BC
137
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

ray Bunbury wrote:Thank you.

Antibiotics are sad because they are illegal to buy here.  Only vet can use them and no vet will help chicken.

But if I can know the name of what's wrong, maybe I can get illegal help.  but must be quiet about it.



Is it possible that you could buy antibiotics meant for fish, online? Perhaps customs would confiscate them, but perhaps not..?

Whether antibiotics would actually help, I have no idea..
 
r ranson
master steward & author
Posts: 16782
Location: Left Coast Canada
4003
books chicken cooking fiber arts sheep writing
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Antibiotics can cause a lot of harm if used improperly.  

It's best to get a diagnosis first if possible.

Strange looking chickens.  I hope someone might know what caused it.
 
Carla Burke
gardener
Posts: 736
209
personal care gear foraging hunting rabbit chicken cooking food preservation fiber arts medical herbs homestead
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I think it looks parasitic...
 
ray Bunbury
Posts: 59
7
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
hen lost desire to live.  Neck not red, it white.  But swollen.  With black patches look like dead skin.

I will try for a few hours to ask her to live.  But can't let her suffer long because hurts my heart.

Must learn autopsy.  But crying too hard.
 
r ranson
master steward & author
Posts: 16782
Location: Left Coast Canada
4003
books chicken cooking fiber arts sheep writing
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Ray has trouble writing, so I talked with him on the phone about this to see if I could share more information.

Both chickens are hatched this spring.  But from different clutches.
Both clutches are hen-hatched.  Not incubator.
Both chickens had very few feathers on their neck from day one.  (there is the possibility of Turken geans - but he doesn't keep track of which hen and cock contributed the egg)

After the redness and swelling starts, the chickens still have a healthy appetite and energy for over a month, then the swollen part got hot to the touch on the hen and she started losing energy.  But she still had a good appetite until yesterday.  

Ray did try antibiotics (oxytetracycline) and ivermectin yesterday, both oral, both double dose but free choice.  The hen lapped it up.  Ray's worried this might be why the hen is doing so poorly today.  

He's increasing the quarantine for the chickens in case it's spreadable.  

The thing that worries him the most is the diagnosis.  Ray reads well and looked in all the chicken books he can find, but there's nothing like this.  All the things with this swelling have sinus or breathing problems or lack of appetite.  All of them would have destroyed the entire flock by now.

So Ray is wondering if it's an external problem.  An infection from injury because they lack feather armour?  Or parasites?  

The overall feeling I got from Ray is being lost.  Ray wants to give the chickens the best care, but it is very difficult where he lives because access to medicine and knowledge is restricted to large farms.  Regular vets won't treat chickens.

He asks: what do I look for in an autopsy to find out the cause?

Did I get this right?
 
ray Bunbury
Posts: 59
7
  • Likes 3
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
yes.  you wrote what I said.
thank you big-ly
 
Carla Burke
gardener
Posts: 736
209
personal care gear foraging hunting rabbit chicken cooking food preservation fiber arts medical herbs homestead
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Hmmm... Prefacing this with the disclaimer that I'm neither a veterinarian, nor a doctor, I am not qualified to diagnose or treat anyone or anything...

In an informal autopsy, I personally would employ a microscope, and look very closely at the skin, for parasite activity, first, simply because any parasites won't stick around, long. As soon as the host is deceased, they will begin making their exodus. The next thing I'd look at, would be the interior of the neck, looking for any internal areas of inflammation, discoloration, deformity, and (obviously) similarities, between the two birds - keeping in mind, of course, that parasites could be either external or internal - or both.

Did he say how many of this breed he's raised, before, without incident, or if there might be a genetic propensity toward thyroid problems, or if maybe they got into something they shouldn't have? Is it possible that they've both been bitten by an invading pest, be it insect, reptile, or rodent?

This is a quandary, to be sure. I'll keep it in mind, and if I find anything - or anyone who might know - I'll do my level best to get any possible info back here...
 
r ranson
master steward & author
Posts: 16782
Location: Left Coast Canada
4003
books chicken cooking fiber arts sheep writing
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Carla Burke wrote:Did he say how many of this breed he's raised, before, without incident, .



He said he usually tries to hatch 20 to 30 new chickens a year.  The breed is mixed from the Murry Mc Murry (sp?) mixed heritage selection.  

The two chickens are from different 'flocks' but they do intermix and share time in the same common area.  

I didn't ask about the rest.
 
ray Bunbury
Posts: 59
7
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Concern about contagious
culled both chickens and disected neck after death

Both had thick neck skin and regular everywhere else skin.  UP to 3/8th inch thick at worst place.

Soft skin like pork fat but more like bubbles.  hard to explain.

Under skin at most swolen place was strange blood clot.  Not blood from euthanasia.  That blood was flowing.  But with texture like liver or thick jelly.  

No mites or lise on outside of skin.  Very odd because expecting some.

no obvious worm sign inside.

Photos after crying.

Please help diagnose.  These are my ownly friends.
 
ray Bunbury
Posts: 59
7
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
sad image
IMG_7515.JPG
necromancy
necromancy
Content minimized. Click to view
 
pollinator
Posts: 1630
Location: Big Island, Hawaii (2300' elevation, 60" avg. annual rainfall, temp range 55-80 degrees F)
585
forest garden rabbit tiny house books solar woodworking
  • Likes 10
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Ok, I'll take a stab at this. Just keep in mind that without examine the bird, this is going to be a wild guess.

The lack of neck feathers and the red pigmented skin appears to be normal since the birds have Turkin DNA. My own Turkins looked that this. The neck skin is thicker on the Turkins that other feathered breeds.

Your description of the blood under skin seems consistent with what is called a subdural hematoma. This is essentially a pool of "clotted" blood under the skin, often accompanied with edema (excess fluid in the tissues). The most common cause would be an injury. I can't begin to guess what that injury would be. Perhaps a fight. Perhaps a fall. Perhaps the hen slammed into something while trying to escape an attacker. Perhaps overly amorous attention from a rooster (roosters have been known to kill hen's, though not out of hatred).

Subdural hematomas usually don't cause problems, but I have seen some that became septic, thus killing the animal. Possibly this may be the case with this hen. Hard to tell.
 
pollinator
Posts: 221
Location: nevada zone7
54
kids cat tiny house books chicken fiber arts homestead
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
could they have stuck there heads into a hole? in a fence or container? and then gotten stuck and injured pulling themselves out??
 
Posts: 1141
Location: Central Wyoming -zone 4
17
hugelkultur monies dog chicken sheep
  • Likes 3
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Su Ba wrote:Ok, I'll take a stab at this. Just keep in mind that without examine the bird, this is going to be a wild guess.

The lack of neck feathers and the red pigmented skin appears to be normal since the birds have Turkin DNA. My own Turkins looked that this. The neck skin is thicker on the Turkins that other feathered breeds.

Your description of the blood under skin seems consistent with what is called a subdural hematoma. This is essentially a pool of "clotted" blood under the skin, often accompanied with edema (excess fluid in the tissues). The most common cause would be an injury. I can't begin to guess what that injury would be. Perhaps a fight. Perhaps a fall. Perhaps the hen slammed into something while trying to escape an attacker. Perhaps overly amorous attention from a rooster (roosters have been known to kill hen's, though not out of hatred).

Subdural hematomas usually don't cause problems, but I have seen some that became septic, thus killing the animal. Possibly this may be the case with this hen. Hard to tell.



This is along the lines of my thoughts
The photos remind me of what I call a blood tumor, my eldest dog once had one that grew on his neck until it burst, from my reading he was fortunate that it burst externally, internal bursting almost certainly means death, perhaps that's what happened to this hen
I've also read that it usually develops from getting some foreign matter into a wound that doesnt find it's way out
He later developed(and still has) another large tumor on his leg, I thought it was another blood tumor and given the circumstances of my living arrangement at the time I attempted to lance and drain this before it burst on my roommates carpet like the previous one did, this turned out to be a terrible idea as there appeared to be no blood to drain and I caused the poor dog unnecessary pain

Moral of my story was that i would not attempt to perform surgery to drain the growth
If possible spend more time observing to see if there is an overly aggressive bird or a plethora of sharp debris that could become lodged in the bird

Another thought off the cuff, perhaps a blood vessel burst under the skin?
 
D Nikolls
pollinator
Posts: 1172
Location: Victoria BC
137
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Devon Olsen wrote:

Su Ba wrote:Ok, I'll take a stab at this. Just keep in mind that without examine the bird, this is going to be a wild guess.

The lack of neck feathers and the red pigmented skin appears to be normal since the birds have Turkin DNA. My own Turkins looked that this. The neck skin is thicker on the Turkins that other feathered breeds.

Your description of the blood under skin seems consistent with what is called a subdural hematoma. This is essentially a pool of "clotted" blood under the skin, often accompanied with edema (excess fluid in the tissues). The most common cause would be an injury. I can't begin to guess what that injury would be. Perhaps a fight. Perhaps a fall. Perhaps the hen slammed into something while trying to escape an attacker. Perhaps overly amorous attention from a rooster (roosters have been known to kill hen's, though not out of hatred).

Subdural hematomas usually don't cause problems, but I have seen some that became septic, thus killing the animal. Possibly this may be the case with this hen. Hard to tell.



This is along the lines of my thoughts
The photos remind me of what I call a blood tumor, my eldest dog once had one that grew on his neck until it burst, from my reading he was fortunate that it burst externally, internal bursting almost certainly means death, perhaps that's what happened to this hen
I've also read that it usually develops from getting some foreign matter into a wound that doesnt find it's way out
He later developed(and still has) another large tumor on his leg, I thought it was another blood tumor and given the circumstances of my living arrangement at the time I attempted to lance and drain this before it burst on my roommates carpet like the previous one did, this turned out to be a terrible idea as there appeared to be no blood to drain and I caused the poor dog unnecessary pain

Moral of my story was that i would not attempt to perform surgery to drain the growth
If possible spend more time observing to see if there is an overly aggressive bird or a plethora of sharp debris that could become lodged in the bird

Another thought off the cuff, perhaps a blood vessel burst under the skin?


Devon Olsen wrote:

Su Ba wrote:Ok, I'll take a stab at this. Just keep in mind that without examine the bird, this is going to be a wild guess.

The lack of neck feathers and the red pigmented skin appears to be normal since the birds have Turkin DNA. My own Turkins looked that this. The neck skin is thicker on the Turkins that other feathered breeds.

Your description of the blood under skin seems consistent with what is called a subdural hematoma. This is essentially a pool of "clotted" blood under the skin, often accompanied with edema (excess fluid in the tissues). The most common cause would be an injury. I can't begin to guess what that injury would be. Perhaps a fight. Perhaps a fall. Perhaps the hen slammed into something while trying to escape an attacker. Perhaps overly amorous attention from a rooster (roosters have been known to kill hen's, though not out of hatred).

Subdural hematomas usually don't cause problems, but I have seen some that became septic, thus killing the animal. Possibly this may be the case with this hen. Hard to tell.



This is along the lines of my thoughts
The photos remind me of what I call a blood tumor, my eldest dog once had one that grew on his neck until it burst, from my reading he was fortunate that it burst externally, internal bursting almost certainly means death, perhaps that's what happened to this hen
I've also read that it usually develops from getting some foreign matter into a wound that doesnt find it's way out
He later developed(and still has) another large tumor on his leg, I thought it was another blood tumor and given the circumstances of my living arrangement at the time I attempted to lance and drain this before it burst on my roommates carpet like the previous one did, this turned out to be a terrible idea as there appeared to be no blood to drain and I caused the poor dog unnecessary pain

Moral of my story was that i would not attempt to perform surgery to drain the growth
If possible spend more time observing to see if there is an overly aggressive bird or a plethora of sharp debris that could become lodged in the bird

Another thought off the cuff, perhaps a blood vessel burst under the skin?




My reading of the problem, though, was that both chickens *lost* feathers, on the affected area, as opposed to lacked them all along; is this accurate?

It seems a bit unlikely that a chance tumour or physical injury would strike 2 birds with matching placement and symptoms..

Perhaps, as Bernetta suggested, something in the environment is related to an injury, somewhere a bird could get stuck, and hurt itself getting free?

I would have expected more dramatic evidence of such injury at the beginning, vs what seems a relatively slow progression. Yet, like everyone else so far, I can find no disease that seems to match..


Ray, I am sorry for your losses. Your chickens are fortunate to have someone care about them so much.
 
Posts: 5
Location: rural P.E.I., Canada
3
  • Likes 5
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I'm not a vet but...my money is on parasitic infestation. Look for lice or mites...and they can be SMALL. Most diseases chickens can get usually involve symptoms like discharge or diarrhea or cough or something along those lines. The fact that only the skin was affected, and especially around the neck is a prime place for parasites, I would suspect this first. A symptom of severe infestation is also loss of appetite and resulting weight loss, anemia and eventually death. Parasites will suck the blood and if they really imbed themselves under the skin and sit there feeding, it's conceivable that a blot clot would form underneath the skin. The feather loss can be the result of scratching and from the parasite. There might be a spot in the coop where they are constantly rubbing their neck vigorously to alleviate the discomfort and this in itself could cause the hematoma to form under the skin as well as to thicken the skin there . Feather mites actually eat the feathers and you'll see feathers that have just the shaft but the vane is missing. Red mites will house themselves in the wood...if you have these guys you need to scrub and dust the coop well to get rid of them. Check your other chickens because lice and mites will affect the rest as well as they travel from one live host to another. Night time is when they are most susceptible to parasites. I used to scrub down the wood perches and then coat them with Neem oil. This helped a lot in keeping things off the chickens at night when they are resting. There is a laundry list of lice, mites and ticks that can infest a chicken, and some are very hard to see with the naked eye. A spray with lavender can help with the itch and irritation but eliminating is the most important thing. If you use straw in your coop, some parasites hide inside the straw which is like a hollow tube. Wood can harbour them and numerous parasites can be introduced via rodents and wild birds around the coop or where they free range. I would thoroughly examine your other chickens for parasites...the back of the neck, the vent, under the wings. Use a magnifying glass. I once had an itch and couldn't see anything until I used a magnifying glass and there was a chicken lice (not like human lice) crawling on my arm the same colour as my skin so it blended right in. I had just been holding a chicken I brought home from another farm. Like you, I live in an area where drugs are no longer available at the local feed store and can only be purchased through vet, many of which won't deal with birds at all much less chickens. If you are in Canada, there are 'provincial vets' that can be consulted that can often help in determining what's going on. And there are places where a 'necropsy' can be done if you suspect a viral/bacterial disease. Sometimes that is worth a few dollars to do to find out what's what to prevent losing any more of the flock.
 
ray Bunbury
Posts: 59
7
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
New chicken not looking good.

Feathers were fine.  Last week, one feather on neck gone and look black spt - like ingronwn hair/feather

Yesterday, more feather gone.  Skin starting to turn tough.  

After looking at hen, found too small black bug.  When crush with finger nail, go snap.  so beatle.

will all my chickens die?  please help.
 
Carla Burke
gardener
Posts: 736
209
personal care gear foraging hunting rabbit chicken cooking food preservation fiber arts medical herbs homestead
  • Likes 3
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I would add some diatomaceous earth to their feed and dust them with some. If the bugs are what is causing it, it will get rid of them. You might also sprinkle it around in their shelter & run.
 
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Please pardon my ignorance about chicken health.  I was interested and found this about little black beetles:

https://www.vetpoultry.com/blogs/barn-talk-livestock-health-and-nutrition/prevention-and-control-of-darkling-beetles-in-poultry-houses

"They are also known to crawl on the birds when deprived of moisture and chew at the base of the feathers."

There is much more to read about darkling beetles.  However that particular sentence caught my attention.  Also, this:

https://books.google.com/books?id=QOJGPV2IqCcC&pg=RA24-PA38&lpg=RA24-PA38&dq=chicken+beetle+under+neck+skin&source=bl&ots=Zd6qV5k8WQ&sig=ACfU3U0yoagfuXBd44oo2GWA4_SZKuQjqg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiN0PHb5u3lAhVCSq0KHTVwCwAQ6AEwEnoECAgQAQ#v=onepage&q=chicken%20beetle%20under%20neck%20skin&f=false
 
ray Bunbury
Posts: 59
7
  • Likes 3
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
New CLUE!

Bad bugs.

late night yesterday, I give ivermec on topical skin.  One drop.  

Late night yesterday also give rubbing tea-trea oil mixed carrier oil to neck problem.

All Night chicken upset and uncomfortable.  Won't eat much breakfast.

I look at bottle I leave next to her house.  The lid is black.  Why is it black?  

Small bugs love ivermec but hide when light arrives.  I take photo before they vanish.
Also small bugs love tea tree oil bottle.  Not black, but many bugs.  

Photo from ivermec - which is supposed to make bugs dead.  But bugs love.

VERY USPset at self for using chemical bug love.


Please help identify and how to kill before bug kill chicken.
bug-on-iver.JPG
chicken bug
chicken bug
ivermex.JPG
chicken bugs on bottle
chicken bugs on bottle
 
master steward
Posts: 3012
Location: West Tennessee
971
cat purity trees books chicken food preservation cooking building homestead
  • Likes 3
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Hi ray!

Using the pictures you provided, the best I can come up with is they look like chicken mites/louse/northern fowl mites. According to the University of Kentucky College of Agriculture, the mites are blood feeders, the lice are not, but both spend at least part of their lives living on chickens, and parts of their lives in nooks and cracks in coops and roosting areas. Here is a link to the website with much more information on the bugs and their lifecycles.

https://entomology.ca.uky.edu/ef516
 
Catherine Windrose
Posts: 108
39
hugelkultur forest garden books earthworks wofati composting toilet food preservation building medical herbs rocket stoves homestead
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Hello Ray, if the beetles you found look like bugs in these images, it may be darkling beetles.  https://www.google.com/search?q=darkling+beetles+chicken&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiL0rLvve_lAhVHeKwKHagNAmEQ_AUIESgB&biw=1138&bih=518

From:  http://www.poultryhub.org/production/husbandry-management/housing-environment/pest-management/darkling-beetles/

Control
No acceptable field control strategies have been developed for darkling beetle control and therefore there has been little long term success in controlling the pest. Research in Australia have shown that the current standard industry insecticide is not effective when applied to broiler house floors, and this situation is exacerbated by strong and widespread insecticide resistance that occurs in broiler house beetle populations. More research are underway to develop an effective method to control darkling beetle in poultry houses.


There is more information at the link above that implies bedding, ground beneath feed containers, and other specifics may be nurturing the beetles.  Perhaps for the immediate present, free ranging the chickens to get them away from the beetle infestation will help protect the remainder of your lovely chickens?  The information found so far implies one possibility is to a chicken tractor that can be moved daily might prevent another infestation.  It does not say so specifically, rather that as long as chickens remain in conditions that nurture the beetles, the beetles will thrive more than your chickens.
 
r ranson
master steward & author
Posts: 16782
Location: Left Coast Canada
4003
books chicken cooking fiber arts sheep writing
  • Likes 3
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
If that's the bottle I think it is, then the sections on the lid are less than 4mm. Which means one bug is going to be about 0.25 to 0.75mm long.  That's some tiny bugs

(I might have got the less-than sign wrong in the picture)
thumb-ivermex.png
[Thumbnail for thumb-ivermex.png]
 
Posts: 127
Location: Newfoundland, Canada
3
solar woodworking
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
The bugs are mites. They will multiply and keep feeding on the hen until the blood runs cold and stops flowing! The treatment is a dusty powder but I don't remember what it powder is made of.
 
Posts: 135
26
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I am so, so sorry - I know how hard it is to lose an animal like that.
I have never had anything quite like that, but i have had chicken lice, and new it because I would feel the bites and not see anything when I went in the coop.
I gave them a large dust bath of dry dirt mixed with diomacious earth (NOT the kind used for pools!) under the coop to keep it dry, and it has cleared up the problem as far as I can tell.
Dusting with DE as someone else mentioned is good, but letting the chickens bathe in it might bring more immediate relief to them!
Best of luck! Hopefully the rest of the flock is still healthy.
 
Posts: 56
  • Likes 3
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
A lot of bugs are attracted to white- I've been "attacked" by Asian lady beetles when wearing a white t-shirt.
Maybe you could spread a white sheet to attract these beetles, and keep it dusted with diatomaceous earth to kill them.
 
Posts: 14
Location: Greensburg KY
1
  • Likes 3
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Hello
I’ve been reading about your chicken’s beetle problem and I’m wondering if beneficial nematodes would help. If the beetles have a life cycle stage in the soil they should kill the beetles in the larval stage in the ground.

Available from arbico organic.
https://www.arbico-organics.com/category/beneficial-nematodes

I have used the nematodes on my property and had good results. Fewer Japanese beetles and ticks. They also kill flea larva and a large group of soul borne pests. They do not harm earth worms.

The nematodes infect the larvae and reproduce inside the host, then come out and look for another victim. I propagated them in wax moth larvae.

When I got the nematodes I suspended the nematodes in non chlorinated water (a gallon  or more trying to keep temperature of water and nematodes similar) then putting them into a quart spray bottle and squirting them over the ground. Have the spray mechanism wide open and spray in an arc. Shake periodically to keep the nematodes suspended.

It is best to apply them in the rain so they get washed into the soil and can go right to work. If you have a sprinkler or garden hose, water them in well after application.
 
gardener
Posts: 271
Location: Morongo Valley
111
dog duck forest garden fish fungi chicken cooking bee greening the desert
  • Likes 5
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I am so sorry!  That is a really bad infestation.  I agree with many of those above about diatomaceous earth.  I haven't had to use it on chickens, but on other animals for mites, fleas and ticks it's often been the only thing that worked for me.  On the web are many examples of using it for chickens with mites and lice.

Here is a whole page talking about how to use it for chicken lice and mites: Diatomaceous earth natural chicken mite treatment

Here's a quote.  The (easy to follow) instructions are 6 steps long, but I don't want to plagiarize the whole page so here is just a quote...go to the link above for their directions:

Chicken mites can be difficult pests to combat, their life cycle is difficult to thwart and they thrive in chicken coops. Diatomaceous earth, however, can be used as a natural chicken lice and mite treatment. DE works effectively to exterminate the lice and mites but remains a safe pesticide to have come in close contact with chickens; it targets both full-grown and gestating mites and lice. It's the absorbent properties of DE that allow it to dehydrate insects, and provide protection from future infestations.



The authors of the Frugal Chicken make a diatomaceous earth box for the chickens to take dust baths in, and have had that solve their issues with their large Cornish crosses who couldn't clean themselves well:
The Frugal Chicken - How to use diatomaceous earth for chicken health

There are tons of articles on using it on the net.  Once I switched to DE (as it's abbreviated) for topical parasite control with my pets, I found I didn't need the essential oils, garlic, or myraid of other natural remedies I'd previously used.

With chickens, I have heard from a friend that the DE can dry their skin out temporarily if they are already weakened.  So just know it can happen.  But the birds will freely dustbathe in it when healthy.

Diatomaceous earth is basically like a fine sand in many ways, almost floury. But if you are uncomfortable with using it for some reason, or can't find it, here is an example of using sandboxes to reduce parasites in organic poultry operations from an articles called "Sandboxes keep chicken parasites at bay: Dust an alternative to pesticides for cage-free and organic poultry".  The article this came from is on Sciencenews.org but the article requires a subscription.  The picture explains the concept.  I would mix DE in with the sand.



I do not believe DE reduces internal parasites.  I think that's likely a myth, and one which has confused matters about this substance.  The known action is through desiccation, so that's not going to happen internally in a totally moist environment.
 
Kim Goodwin
gardener
Posts: 271
Location: Morongo Valley
111
dog duck forest garden fish fungi chicken cooking bee greening the desert
  • Likes 5
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Another way to go about it that may help on the red neck of the chicken is a different approach - smothering in oil to suffocate the parasites.  That may feel better for the chicken on that already dried out, scaly area.

I've done this with lice and mites - you can use different oils, but basically the thicker the better.  Castor oil is very healing and appropriate for many animals, though I'm not sure about chickens, but palm or coconut oil, or even mayonnaise can be used.  Mayo is a good cure for headlice that was popularized about 20 years ago, after a weird little scandal...

The oil method works best with exposed skin, of course.  Myself, I'd use a combo of that and diatomaceous earth, putting the oil on the sensitive skin first, then dusting the bird's feathers in DE.  And I'd keep that bird separated awhile, with it's own sandbox.

Lice, mites and fleas are such a pain.  To truly get rid of them, I've found it requires cleaning the environment (the animal's cage, or your house, whatever is infested) regularly and well until the problem is completely dealt with.  Do you have anyplace else you can move the birds in the meantime?
 
Posts: 91
2
  • Likes 6
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Can you get Dawn dish soap? My turkey had a problem with mites that nothing would help. I gave him a good scrubbing from the top of his head to the bottom of his feet with the Dawn. It worked great, you could see the bugs dropping off. I repeated the bath in 3 days and only had a few drop off dead. I did one more bath a week after to make sure any new bugs that hatched would be killed. It really worked. The problem was giving a 40 pound turkey who felt better a bath!

I then scrubbed the perches and walls with the Dawn and then a bleach wash then water rinse. It is a lot of work but it saved my beautiful boy.
 
gardener
Posts: 1338
Location: Pacific Wet Coast
395
duck books chicken cooking
  • Likes 6
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
My Chicken Whisperer was here for our annual Christmas cookie bake session, so I had her read this thread over lunch. She thinks the bugs pictured are a type of lice. From our experience, lice don't really get knocked back by DE. The suggestion of Dawn is close, but too strong on chickens. We have used watered down liquid hand soap in a pump spray bottle (the ones you pump up and and press a lever for spraying, are *much* easier on the hands if you're a bit arthritic like I am.) You start at the neck, so the lice can't harbor near the eyes, and suds the bird thoroughly. NO, the chickens *won't* be impressed and it's important to do this in the warm part of the day and make sure they've got a sunny/warm place to dry as you do not want to rinse them. You need to do *all* the birds so the lice won't just choose their next victim, and I agree with cleaning the coop as best you can with soap and water and then DE in cracks so weakened birds won't get the next bug that's around. I do them 7 days later, then 7 days after that. Luckily the one I had, once I knew what to look for, I could actually see them on the hens, but one summer when it was hot and I was suspicious I had a problem, I found them nesting out on the wing tips, rather than on the lower abdomen where they're much more common.

My Whisperer also agreed that the oils mentioned above might work, but as noted, would be difficult to really work in with all the feathers. I've had *really* good success with the hand soap, and so long as they can stay warm while drying, it's not as nasty as some chemicals.

Our thoughts for better or worse. I *really* hope you get on top of whatever this is. It's always possible that there's something else wrong and the bugs just showed up for the party when they sensed weakened birds.
 
Posts: 1
3
  • Likes 7
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I am new to this forum, but I was looking at some pix of small insects that seem to be bothering some chickens. There was a pix of some bugs on a lid of some type, I guess. First, where is this chicken? In what part of the country? In the USA? No location is given with posts, so I am in the dark. However, these blood-sucking insects look a lot like nymph ticks. Has anyone thought to take some of the bugs to your local extension for correct ID? If they are in fact ticks, they can do severe damage to poultry due to blood loss. The loss of feathers is probably due to the bird scratching in an attempt to remove the ticks. I assume the birds are free-range?

I would try Neem oil in a carrier oil...olive, grape, corn, canola oil. 25% Neem to 75% carrier oil. Mix well Neem oil goes solid at temps below 74 degrees, so keep the mixture warm prior to application. If you can, spread the oil on the affected area. Try to remove any ticks (?) attached to the skin. There are also something called "stick tight fleas" that might be the infestation. I have not personally seen these bugs, so I can't ID them, but they will also make birds sick due to blood loss. Seems ducks don't have so much of a problem if they have access to swimming areas. There are several diseases that affect chickens, you might want to find a good book at the library and check out the symptoms to see what is the issue rather than to try to treat them before you know what the issue is. DE is good for keeping vermin off birds, but not so great if there is already an infestation. Neem oil will work best for removing any lice, mites. I have never seen a tick on any of my birds and I had many turkeys, ducks and chickens.

If you suspect an infestation of vermin in the coop, completely clean out the coop, nesting boxes down to bare. Scrape roosts, a wire brush works well. Clean any areas of heavy build-up. Sweep clean. I have used a shop vac to clean out corners and crevices. This is a serious house-cleaning job. If you have any questions regarding disease in the house, use white vinegar and hydrogen peroxide...after a good housecleaning, spray vinegar to the point of drip, the follow with a spray of hydrogen peroxide. Do not mix the two together, it is similar to mixing bleach and ammonia and will give off killer gasses. I used a one gallon pump up sprayer. Be sure to get under roosts and inside nest boxes. Allow to dry. The spread DE on the floor and bottom of any areas in the poultry house. Sweep the DE into cracks. Use clean bedding on the floor and nesting boxes...sprinkle some DE on top of the clean bedding.

If you have lice or mites, you have to PAINT THE ROOSTS AND WALLS WITH OIL to smother the insects. Old veggie oil (DON'T USE RECYCLED COOKING OIL!!!) painted on all surfaces will smother any insects. Then spread DE as I have suggested. Be sure you have FOOD GRADE DE, pool grade is not the same.

Set up some dust bath areas that are protected from rain or wetness. Add plenty of DE to the dust bath. I have found that elemental sulfur, wood ashes and DE make a nice dust bath with clean sand. The dust baths should stay dry or they will become ineffective.


BTW, DE is very good for intestinal parasites. I have been very successful at worming my flocks with DE in their foods. Internally, it doesn't have to be dry. I have mixed about 1/3 cup DE into four quarts of layer pellets as a remedy. Feed this mix for several days (3-4 days), then wait two weeks and feed the mix again. If you are not feeding dry feed, you can mix it in with any foods. wet or dry.

I was Certified Organic for poultry, grains and garlic for nine years. These remedies in this post are all organically accepted and will not harm poultry.

 
It's just like a fortune cookie, but instead of a cookie, it's pie. And we'll call it ... tiny ad:
A rocket mass heater heats your home with one tenth the wood of a conventional wood stove
http://woodheat.net
  • Post Reply Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic
Boost this thread!