Ergonomics of making cattle panel arches

This is a spin off of a thread about squash What squash climb the best?
I made a couple of cattle panel arch arbors for them to climb, and learned an easy way to do it. They were built by me (58 year old disabled female) and my mom (83 year old lady, who broke her arm last fall) and we did not get hurt, and it was pretty easy. (Some of these drawings are pretty lame, sorry!)

We put up one panel as an arch last year, and it was an exercise in what not to do. Trying to bend it to shape was dangerous, we were both off balance, and it was hard to control and kept whacking us. This time I thought about it more. :D

In the fall we put in T posts in rows, 5 foot apart, spaced so there is a center post for each arch that are 4 feet apart (the width of the panel) and at each end there is a post 2 feet from it to stabilize the end. I angled them so the tops leaned inward, knowing they were not going to hold well in this soil, and would move when pressure was applied. We bought the 16 foot long cattle panels at the same time, but stuff happened and they spent the winter leaning up against the house.

Post and panel layout

We left the panels standing up against the house. I set two ratchet straps so the hooks were 4 feet apart. Then I'd take the far end of the cattle panel and walking behind it, push it in an arc to bend into shape The house held the other end still. Mom had a ratchet strap, and I'd bend it till she could get it to hook to both sides about 2-3 foot from the top of the arch, at about waist height. That held it enough that mom could brace it where I was holding, and I'd go inside the arched panel, and hook the other strap, with myself in the space between the two straps. She'd then go to the top of the arch, and we'd pick it up easily. They are not very heavy, they are mostly very clumsy, and the straps controlled that.





We then carried it to the rows of posts, and it fit  in between them well, easy to carry in. Got the panel where we wanted it, and stood it up on the bottom. Adjusted it's position, then let the bottom strap loose first, to transfer most of the pressure to the stable base of the post, then the top strap, which did move the posts to straight, as it arched gracefully.

We got 4 panels in each line (that's how much space we had for each arbor) and the next day wired them together.

Final result is lovely! And we didn't get hurt! It was very easy to do, and I recommend trying it this way if you are building arches. It beat the heck out of fighting that one last year!

Thanks for the post! I just built a cattle panel for the first time, and I figured I'd share what I did here too. I used something called a vericom clip to attach the panel to lumber instead of post staples. I posted a video to Youtube that briefly explains my thinking. Let me know what you think. Cheers!

Andrew: I envy your geodesic jungle gyms in the background!! :) I'm stalking dead trampolines...

I like what you did there! Really nice set up :D

Good call on the coax clips! I think I'd have put the panels to the interior of the boards, rather than the exterior, just for the pull out problem. I love it that yours can be moved, Mine are held by the T posts, so they are stuck where they are until I move the posts, but they have no wind shear issues, so it's a matter of which you need more. I have excess wind, and right now, no other locations to move things to.

I have quite often (it's one of my default quick fixes) used a loop of plumber's tape (the older thicker stuff works much better than the lightweight modern stuff) with a good long solid screw to hold all kinds of things still.

I envy you working at Habitat, I'm not allowed to, I'd drag home too much stuff... Not allowed to work at the recycle place, thrift stores or the animal shelter either. My mom has threatened me :D

Cool work! Thank you for the ideas!  :D

Pearl:

Thanks for posting this.  I really like the way you put the panels inside the posts and use them to also send the sides vertical and nor bowed excessively out.  I'm guessing the peak height is about 6 1/2'.  Have you measured it?

Bryan

Bryan Elliott wrote:Pearl:

Thanks for posting this.  I really like the way you put the panels inside the posts and use them to also send the sides vertical and nor bowed excessively out.  I'm guessing the peak height is about 6 1/2'.  Have you measured it?

Bryan

I haven't measured, BUT! I hung a wind spinner yesterday, I could just barely reach the top, I can reach up 6 foot 6, so yes, that's a good guess.
:D

Really like how neat they look, great job!  We are putting up cattle panel trellises too, but already see some inherent problems.  Husband was cutting down white pines which were diseased and overshadowed the main garden, so used the trunks on the bottom and just attached the panels with long staples.  I can imagine they will rot after a few years and then with nothing else but occasional rebar holding the logs, will pop loose and we’ll have to rework the whole thing.  Severe deer pressure here so we had to do something to keep them out of the veggies.  The 8 foot fence didn’t work, they just jump over it.  But we put the trellises around the garden perimeter, can grow running beans or other crops inside and they won’t jump high and long so don’t come over the trellises, or so we are hoping.  

Wow. Lots of inspiration. I use three panels in a row in a frame of 2 by 12s. Cover with material that lets over ninety percent sun in. I grow tomatoes inside in stacks of tires. We replaced one panel this year, not too difficult as we put one end in the frame and then walked the other end up until we could slip it in. I connect them with a few zip ties.

I had thought to move the whole hoop house to a better place on the garden but now I think I will just build a second one, next year in the other location. Everyone's pictures are so cool.

Here are pictures of my tomato hoop house with cattle panels.

I have to admit that last year was awful for tomatoes. And you can see why we had to replace a panel. This is in my rooftop garden and we do get some powerful wind, enough to bend a panel on one occasion.

those are amazing visuals.  I love it when people are that detailed; it helps me so much!  Thank you for going to all that trouble!

Pearl Sutton wrote:This is a spin off of a thread about squash What squash climb the best?
I made a couple of cattle panel arch arbors for them to climb, and learned an easy way to do it. They were built by me (58 year old disabled female) and my mom (83 year old lady, who broke her arm last fall) and we did not get hurt, and it was pretty easy. (Some of these drawings are pretty lame, sorry!)

We put up one panel as an arch last year, and it was an exercise in what not to do. Trying to bend it to shape was dangerous, we were both off balance, and it was hard to control and kept whacking us. This time I thought about it more.

In the fall we put in T posts in rows, 5 foot apart, spaced so there is a center post for each arch that are 4 feet apart (the width of the panel) and at each end there is a post 2 feet from it to stabilize the end. I angled them so the tops leaned inward, knowing they were not going to hold well in this soil, and would move when pressure was applied. We bought the 16 foot long cattle panels at the same time, but stuff happened and they spent the winter leaning up against the house.

Post and panel layout

We left the panels standing up against the house. I set two ratchet straps so the hooks were 4 feet apart. Then I'd take the far end of the cattle panel and walking behind it, push it in an arc to bend into shape The house held the other end still. Mom had a ratchet strap, and I'd bend it till she could get it to hook to both sides about 2-3 foot from the top of the arch, at about waist height. That held it enough that mom could brace it where I was holding, and I'd go inside the arched panel, and hook the other strap, with myself in the space between the two straps. She'd then go to the top of the arch, and we'd pick it up easily. They are not very heavy, they are mostly very clumsy, and the straps controlled that.





We then carried it to the rows of posts, and it fit  in between them well, easy to carry in. Got the panel where we wanted it, and stood it up on the bottom. Adjusted it's position, then let the bottom strap loose first, to transfer most of the pressure to the stable base of the post, then the top strap, which did move the posts to straight, as it arched gracefully.

We got 4 panels in each line (that's how much space we had for each arbor) and the next day wired them together.

Final result is lovely! And we didn't get hurt! It was very easy to do, and I recommend trying it this way if you are building arches. It beat the heck out of fighting that one last year!

Pearl,

I love how you describe in detail what you’ve done. I’m 57 and about 5’ tall. I need to work smarter, not harder.
We have a a passionfruit vine growing over a wooden arch that’s being whipped by the wind and the hanging fruit all the time.

I’ve thought about replacing it with cattle panel but had not quite figured out how to manage it, until I read your post.

I’ve read your post several times, but I don’t see a mention of the width of the arch you made. In a reply, you agreed that it maybe around 6 1/2” tall, but I can’t calculate and picture in my 57 year old brain how wide that is.

How wide is it? And are they 16 ft. long?

Thanks,
Tina

Tina: yeah, us small women, especially as we get older, REALLY need to work smarter!  I baffle the young people I work with with how I do things by myself.
" T posts in rows, 5 foot apart"  
The panels go between the two rows. So the base of the panels ends up 5 feet apart. The panels are to the inside of the rows of posts. That's why I strap them to about 4 feet to move them, gives me room to get them in place.
That does make the top of the arch 6.5 feet high, I think, still haven't measured it, but I can just barely reach the beans on the top, and I can reach up 6.5 feet .
These are 16 foot long panels, and they are a bit over four feet wide.

I want to see pics when you do it!!

:D

I love my cattle panel trellis.  We have gotten some high winds in the spring 30 to 40 mph with 60 mph gusts.  I put mine up with just one t post, and it was fine.  I would say if you have milder weather then one post on each side will probably be fine.  Two would be a safer bet.  The first arch I made is 6' 1" at the highest point, and a 7'  space at the bottom.  My second one strangely is also 7' 1" at the highest point, and 7' 6" across. The difference is because they are raised beds, and the first is one cement block high, and the second is two blocks high.  
I put my second arch up by myself.  I'm 5'2".  It wasn't that hard. I laid it flat with one end against the post. Then I lifted it up so it didn't get hung up on the other post. I just kind of pushed it back until I could get it on the inside of the post, then I slid it into place.  Then I used wire to secure it.  Not easy, but doable, and I didn't hurt myself.
I love the way they look with vines growing on them, and the birds enjoy perching on them.  The hummingbirds seem to really enjoy them.  
Your tunnel is beautiful Pearl.

Pearl,

Thanks for the clarifying answer. I think 5 feet apart is more room than I have. I could make it narrower and higher.

I will definitely post when (or if) I get to do it.

I need to figure out a way to get a 16’ panel from the store to our place.
I’m sure it won’t fit in my Prius. The cheapest delivery is $69.99 from Tractor Supply.



I saw videos of people loading them on top of their SUV’s using existing racks (that I don’t have) and 2x4’s. One guy used 2 - 8 ft ones and folded them them in half to fit inside his SUV. That maybe more appropriate for my current situation, if I could fit them in my car. ( I miss my old truck).

We shall see.

Jane,

Beautiful pictures. I think I would use two t-post on each side of the panel, to be on the safe side. It’s  windy here most of the time and the passionfruit vine is very prolific.

I noticed that you used a lot of concrete blocks for your rounded beds.

Earlier today, I was looking at the concrete blocks around my herb bed (currently growing the Three Sisters), and realizing I should get more blocks to surround my blueberry keyhole garden (now growing citrus trees and Camellia sinensis) where the old reused fence panels are falling apart.

Tina if you don't know anyone with a truck, or trailer, maybe check into renting a U-Haul. Seems to me the sign in front said 20.00 truck rental.  Probably some milage, or other catch, but it might be worth looking into.
For my older beds I used one block high, because I just used what I could scrounge up.  My new ones have two blocks high because my son gave me a pallet of concrete blocks for Christmas last year.  I would have never spent the money, but I love them.  It makes gardening so much easier.

Jen,

Beautiful pictures. I think I would use two t-post on each side of the panel, to be on the safe side. It’s  windy here most of the time and the passionfruit vine is very prolific.

I noticed that you used a lot of concrete blocks for your rounded beds.

Earlier today, I was looking at the concrete blocks around my herb bed (currently growing the Three Sisters), and realizing I should get more blocks to surround my blueberry keyhole garden (now growing citrus trees and Camellia sinensis) where the old reused fence panels are falling apart.

To transport cattle panels, I would probably go to Home Depot or similar place and rent their truck for an hour. I think it was $20/hour last time I rented one. Or maybe talk to a nearby farmer who has either a truck or a trailer and offer to pay them for picking up an order for you.

You all are inspiring. I'm thinking I'll put up some trellises soon and maybe can use them as a seasonal greenhouse but then take down the plastic when it gets warmer and use it for climbing/vining crops. Thanks!

Tina Saravia wrote:Pearl,

Thanks for the clarifying answer. I think 5 feet apart is more room than I have. I could make it narrower and higher.

I will definitely post when (or if) I get to do it.

I need to figure out a way to get a 16’ panel from the store to our place.
I’m sure it won’t fit in my Prius. The cheapest delivery is $69.99 from Tractor Supply.

Getting cattle panels home is the hardest part for me too.

I have 8' long ones that I tried to set up in a triangle shape in my field garden but they really blew over in the wind. So I ended up zip tying them along the long edge and setting them as small trellises in my raised bed garden and they work really well as a shorter support.

I saw a note about getting cattle panels home.  Here are a couple ways to do it with a small truck (they may or may not be suited to everybody's size/strength):

1.  Get a receiver hitch extender.  Then you can lay them flat in the truck bed and they don't hang out too far.  If you have a short bed truck they might stick out too far though.  Bring along a couple 2x4s to lay under them so they don't slap the ground when you go over a dip in the road.  Don't forget to strap them in/down and put a flag on them.

2.  Bend them into Pearl's U shape and set them in the truck bed with the bend of the U towards the front of the truck.  Ratchet strap the sides of the U together and strap it down well.  You can haul several at the same time this way but it will give them a bit of a bend.  So if you need them to be flat when you get home, this isn't the best approach.

On transportation, our only (running) vehicle is a sedan - not exactly homestead friendly! We get our panels from our local farm supply store, where we also buy hay, straw, and some other livestock related items. They do deliver for $25* (and even stack the hay, at no charge). So, we try to make every delivery count, ordering as much of the needed hay, straw, and panels as we can afford, each time. We always tip the delivery guys well (usually $10 - $20@), and they know it, so they will even 'put this many bales of straw over there, and this many over here', saving us tons of time and labor, in hauling it around, to get the things done that we need to.

If you call around, you might get lucky with this, too!

* Update: this has gone up a couple times in the last few years, and now sits at $40.

That’s genius @Pearl!  I love the idea of pounding the posts in with the tops inward. I’m super tall and wondering if I can raise the panels—say 18”—off the ground on either side or if that would be too much pressure too high up.

Thanks for the ideas!

I second a Co-op, I work for a co-op, and we deliver, ours I think depends on what it is. But it may be another option.
Good luck

I can't find a co-op, but that would be even better!

We've hauled many cattle/hog panels over the years and never with a truck. Most were hauled on a Prius or Geo Metro by strapping them to both bumpers with a bit of cardboard or roof rack or blanket on the roof of the car and any places where they would rub on paint. You can easily see through the grid and they don't interfere with driving. Fortunately we only live about 11 miles from the farm supply store at the edge of town and haven't been pulled over by any law enforcement, but I'm sure we've had plenty of funny looks and second takes.

Claire Alexander wrote:That’s genius Pearl!  I love the idea of pounding the posts in with the tops inward. I’m super tall and wondering if I can raise the panels—say 18”—off the ground on either side or if that would be too much pressure too high up.
Thanks for the ideas!

You can get longer T posts too. I use the cheapest ones, which are 6 foot  long. But they sell longer.

If I were putting the panels higher, and wanted to try 18 inches up, I'd make sure I had the posts in REALLY well (not easy in this soil) and I'd be fastening them to the posts with more connectors than I'm currently using. And be sure to fasten them well to each other too. The idea there would be to make sure you are building a system that is hard for one weak spot to pull it all loose.

And if you are using my "carry them bent" trick and putting them up yourself or with one other person,  I suggest using spacer blocks of some sort to set them on while you get it fastened, then pull them out, leaving the space. I have one sideways panel that I have spaced up 8 inches so I can reach under it easily. That's one cinder block high, I used four on the ground between the posts while I fastened it, then pulled them out.

Post pics if you do this! We want to see, and learn what can be done

Pearl if I could give you a hug right now I would!  

My original search was for recommended spacing of cattle panel arches as the one I have is a bit too close but fits the space I'd intended.  So to find this holy grail of a thread in my search was absolutely enlightening as I was about to embark on wrestling two of them in place.  Posts in place and was wondering if I could find a bit of rope in place of a ratchet strap and suddenly remembered there should be one in the car and alas there was!

My panels are used and aren't perfect especially as my husband decided he needed to use the car to pull one from the weeds and grass that had overtaken it in the spring (have a lot of time and elbow grease in straightening that one out).  Started with that one simply because I'd already dragged it to the site and oh my goodness what I timesaver!  I only had one strap so positioned it approximately in the middle of the panel about 3' from each end and other than stopping to adjust the strap once, it was almost effortless!

Thank you, thank you, thank you for sharing!

Michelle: I'm glad it worked for you!! We really got our asses kicked until I figured this way out. SO MUCH EASIER!!
I'm happy the idea is still being noticed :D

Lots of good stuff in this thread!

Cattle panels find uses all over the place here. Fencing (cattle and otherwise), trellises, hoop houses, temporary awnings… I’m sure I’m forgetting some. Our favorite is the cattle panel bean arch. I cut 4 pieces of ½” rebar, 18” long each, and drove them into the ground, angled toward the center, to support the four corners. Sowed the beans at the base on both sides. Easy building, easy planting, easy harvesting, and kinda pretty too. Behind the arch in the attached picture are peas on a cattle panel.

Beans beans beans!

I use 2 cheapo posts for each end. I stagger my panels so I can grow other things under and around and get around easier.

Install 2 posts where you want one end. Place one end of 16 foot panel against posts. Walk other end of panel toward that end creating the arch as you go. Have hammer and posts ready and pound in the other 2 post for that end of the panel. Easy arch!

I will usually add a tie wrap or sire around a panel wire and each post in case of extra strong side winds. I've never had a problem with one blowing over full of beans.

J Katrak wrote:Install 2 posts where you want one end. Place one end of 16 foot panel against posts. Walk other end of panel toward that end creating the arch as you go. Have hammer and posts ready and pound in the other 2 post for that end of the panel. Easy arch!

With no visuals I had to think about it for a minute before I got how you did it.  But that is a really good way to do it as well!  That will work perfectly for my concrete block raised beds since I won't have to fumble around with the second set of posts while trying to keep the panel from springing away from me, the blocks will help hold it in place.

Donna Lynn wrote:

J Katrak wrote:Install 2 posts where you want one end. Place one end of 16 foot panel against posts. Walk other end of panel toward that end creating the arch as you go. Have hammer and posts ready and pound in the other 2 post for that end of the panel. Easy arch!

With no visuals I had to think about it for a minute before I got how you did it.  But that is a really good way to do it as well!  That will work perfectly for my concrete block raised beds since I won't have to fumble around with the second set of posts while trying to keep the panel from springing away from me, the blocks will help hold it in place.

Yes Pearl's original illustrations were quite helpful. It was perfectly clear how they managed it. I'll spend some time on a drawing to add.

The main drawback to this method is that you need to have about 16ft to work with. But if you do and you place the posts or blocks or whatever you use near where you will need them then it is pretty easy for one person to manage. The arch stays put pretty well for me until I get the final posts in but I tend to go wider than taller. Taller the arch the more it will want to spring back.

I also like to move them around from year to year along with sections of deer fencing. Not real pretty but lots of beans with limited time at the property.

J Katrak wrote:Install 2 posts where you want one end. Place one end of 16 foot panel against posts. Walk other end of panel toward that end creating the arch as you go. Have hammer and posts ready and pound in the other 2 post for that end of the panel. Easy arch!

I think I'd be worried about the arch slipping and springing out of my hands that way - you were lucky! I think I'd like to have both sides of the archway in position before I started with the panels....I like Pearl's trick to keep the arch controlled as you get it in position. I wonder if you could actually use the ratchet strap to pull them into an arch?

I made an "arch" with something akin to the idea of tensegrity. I wanted an open front situation, so I made a 4x4 front frame, bowed cattle panels against it, and used metal cable to balance the pushing force of the panel against the wood. Holding up great and it's gradually being colonized by the native vines I've planted around it.

Nancy Reading wrote:

J Katrak wrote:Install 2 posts where you want one end. Place one end of 16 foot panel against posts. Walk other end of panel toward that end creating the arch as you go. Have hammer and posts ready and pound in the other 2 post for that end of the panel. Easy arch!

I think I'd be worried about the arch slipping and springing out of my hands that way - you were lucky! I think I'd like to have both sides of the archway in position before I started with the panels....I like Pearl's trick to keep the arch controlled as you get it in position. I wonder if you could actually use the ratchet strap to pull them into an arch?

If not for the soil/mulch/weeds, I can imagine it being much more difficult. The panels aren't that "springy" until you get the arch pretty tall.

I can't wait to try the ratchet strap and make some nice tight and tall arches. They're beautiful!

Matt Todd wrote:I made an "arch" with something akin to the idea of tensegrity. I wanted an open front situation, so I made a 4x4 front frame, bowed cattle panels against it, and used metal cable to balance the pushing force of the panel against the wood. Holding up great and it's gradually being colonized by the native vines I've planted around it.

That is great! I will need to research tensegrity.

I've been planning on doing something similar with the top side connected to my house. I want grow vines for some screening and shade over a small deck. For now, I quickly added a beanscreen to the fence. Bye bye shirtless neighbor junk pile and garbage cans ;)

I also need to figure out the best way to get some panels here first.

Matt Todd wrote:I made an "arch" with something akin to the idea of tensegrity.

I hadn't heard this term. Good stuff like bodies. If I had tried this without that knowledge it would have failed before too long. Thanks.

I really like the open front. Could be the back if something needed some shade. I think I have everything I need to make one of these. It's on the list!

Nancy Reading wrote:. I wonder if you could actually use the ratchet strap to pull them into an arch?

J Katrak wrote:
I can't wait to try the ratchet strap and make some nice tight and tall arches. They're beautiful!

The ratchet strap by itself would be hard to pull it into an arch. 16 foot long panels would take a lot of ratcheting to tension them.
The way I used the side of the house in my first post to hold it still so we could hook it with the straps, that can be done with anything mean enough to hold it still. A tree that wouldn't get hurt would be great. Truck if you don't mind possible scratches on it. House was good about sitting still and being a victim

The tall arches, anchored well, are still holding well 4 years later, and I've been improving the soil in their planting areas, and they are rowdy and amok each year. The nice thing about the tightly controlled arches is you can walk under them easily, which makes them easy for harvesting. And they look classy! In an area where neighbors aren't fond of gardens, it's hard to claim they look sloppy, which might be a major consideration for people.

If you have crappy soil like this rental does, by pounding the posts in the ground in fall, it let me pound them down deeper in the early spring when the ground was more saturated, made them a LOT more stable before adding the panels.

The idea of using straps and leverage to make them safe, stable and easy to maneuver was a game changer for us, we don't have to worry about getting hurt anymore. That's an IMPORTANT consideration, not just for us older women, but for everyone who can't afford to get injured, which is everyone You don't get your garden work done with a broken arm or leg.

In hindsight, ratchet straps would of made my installation so much easier!

I have the bad habit of trying to do projects solo, getting frustrated, and start trying to bulldog my way through them. This has caused damage to objects and myself so I try and be mindful of my frustration levels as I undertake things. I installed two cattle panel arches and had issues with 'springyness' as I tried to do the arch fold. Luckily, my wife was available and we managed to get them placed and secured with t-posts.



I wish to install a third trellis, when I get around to it I'm going to attempt to document Pearl's method myself!

For the sake of completeness, are there minimum specs on "cattle panels"? I would love some, but they don't grow on my Island and no one seems to import them without unbelievable surcharges.

I have wondered if there is a required wire gauge to qualify. Lighter gauge would be easier to bend, but also wouldn't last as long or hold as much weight.

I would also back Pearl's request that everyone stay safe. If you're pushing to the limit, it only takes one surprise for things to go sideways. I'm a strong supporter of "Brains over Brawn" for any activity, but particularly when there's a build up of potential energy that could potentially hurt my permies!