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Land and house paid for- need ideas for most profitable farm enterprises  RSS feed

 
Jonathan Overlin
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Hello,

Here is the scenario-

Your house and land are paid for
you have 78 acres of mostly wooded land
you have a loafing shed, some paddocks and an old tractor

you also have 100k to invest in enterprises

What would you do?


 
David Livingston
steward
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Location: Anjou ,France
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Location ? If you are on the out skirts of a major city you have more options and customers than if you are in central Alaska.

David
 
Jonathan Overlin
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20 minutes from a 500,000 metro area, in America's heartland
 
R Scott
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Location: Kansas Zone 6a
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Family? Your age? Do you have a job to pay the bills or intend to farm full time? How soon do you need a payback and cashflow?

Do you have access to water?

What kind of timber?

20 minutes from a major metro, but is it right on a highway or tucked back and hard to find? Do you even want people coming to your place?

What are the state laws for advertising? Here you can only advertise some direct farm sales from the farm property itself, so if you don't have high visibility road access you are pretty much stuck.

How tied to the farm do you want to be? Do you want to take off the summers with the kids? or the winters and go ski? or OK with being there 24/7/365 to milk?

What do you like to do? Hate to do?

The usual list:

U-pick
Christmas tree farm
market garden (farmer's market and/or CSA)
orchard (fruit or nut)
mushroom farmer
raw milk dairy
plant nursery
rotational grazing meat animals (beef, lamb, goat)

100K will get you a lot of earthworks for water (orchards on swales or water for rotational grazing) plus a few newer used pieces of machinery for basic work for any of the above.

Or you can get a lot of hoophouse frames and a walking tractor to do a shoulder season market garden.

Or a big herd of breeding stock.

IF IT WERE ME: I would spend the money on large scale earthworks and food forest/silvopasture establishment like Mark Shepard or Grant Schulz.
 
S Haze
Posts: 229
Location: Southern Minnesota, USA, zone 4/5
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I know the obvious answer: "It depends!" ha! refer to the questions presented above. One way I've read about and applied to try and sort out all of the physical, geological, social, ecological... factors, the list goes on almost forever... is to figure out what your "unfair advantage" is. This along with lots of observation and research can help shape your vision for a farm. I can look at other regions and say "sure I'd be able to make a living off of selling produce too I my growing season was year round" but instead I can focus on the fact that there is ample rainfall here and that I live on some of the most fertile soil on the planet.

There are unfair advantages for every location whether it's proximity to the markets of a city, people, cheap land, or lack of restrictive ordinances, you just have to find yours!

Back to the original question of what would you invest in a good general answer that's made a lot of sense for me is fences. Since I've invested in good quality six strand high-tensile fences I've had almost zero predator issues and I can raise almost any four legged critter without much additional preparation, watering systems of course are important too. The fences should last almost as long as I will so it's likely there will be a good return on the investment. Fence runs should be placed in a way that allows for water storage/ drought proofing techniques and leaves wildlife corridors.
 
Jonathan Overlin
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R Scott- Those are my inclinations also- earthworks for water and fruit and nut orchards. They seem like good long term investments

S Haze- The "unfair advantage" perspective is not one I've looked through before, I like the idea of framing my goals through that lens. And Fences also seem like a good long term investment.

My 'unfair advantages' are land that is mortgage free and that has not been chemically farmed in several decades. And cash to invest in a farm enterprise.

My question still is- what would you choose as the most reliably profitable farm enterprise? Besides the polyculture fruit and nut orchard- I am leaning towards pastured animals (pigs, chickens, maybe goats or mini cattle too). But there are other options...Aquaculture, forest farming (mushrooms, ginseng), market gardening, flowers and herbs....I am interested in which people might pick from a profitability stand point.
 
Cj Sloane
pollinator
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Before you do anything, take a PDC.

I was very happy with geoff lawton's online PDC. Another will start probably next April.

Brian Kerkvliet is doing one for people very knowledgeable in permaculture very soon (see here).

jack spirko's PermaEthos is sold out but will do another next spring, I guess.
 
Ann Torrence
steward
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Another "it depends" is what the regulatory environment is in your state. Poultry could be good, depending on what the rules are and what kind of processing services are available. In my state, there is no small USDA poultry processor at all, so my dreams of raising ducks and geese for farmers markets are on hold.
 
George Meljon
Posts: 278
Location: Southern Indiana zone 5b
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100k is a lot, but it also goes fast if you're doing too much too fast.

I would put the idea aside that you need to spend any of it until you absolutely need to.

Tractors, barns, equipment, POOF! There goes 100k and maybe you still aren't making a profit. I would hate to see anyone in that scenario.

Research a business plan. Call around inside some markets for mushrooms, or cattle or whatever decide, and see what the base line is. Of course, you can eventually create your own market by being awesome, but that will take time.

Sawing your own lumber and storing it in that barn might be a good idea. That is a high profit margin business with the right materials. It's also a pretty simple business plan. Meanwhile you can work on small scale animal husbandry and gardening to perhaps find another model. You won't be able to do it all, though.

Here is a link to Urban Lumber business info from Diego's Permaculture Voices Podcast: http://www.permaculturevoices.com/20
 
Bernard pollmeier
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Simple raise pigs in the timber you can net 60K on just 20 acres through rotational movement of the pigs build a pond on high ground to gravity feed water down to the pigs and you can cut junk wood out of the timber and build a wood gassifier or selectively cut trees and rough cut lumber for sale
 
Dave Burton
pollinator
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Just curious, this may seem crazy, but why not do a little bit of everything? Diversity in produce will probably be helpful in resilience, because in both the economy and the ecology, the more diverse the species are and the more plentiful connections are between organisms, the more resilient and persistent the system will be.
 
David Livingston
steward
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I always think its best to sort yourself out first .
Grow your own veg , chickens bees sort out your own heating , lighting and see what you enjoy doing and what works .
Remember if you grow or make X to sell you have to spend time and money in marketing, selling ,wrapping and then maybe pay tax on it .
If I buy 6 eggs it costs say 2$ If I sell 6 eggs I might make 20c but it might only cost me less than 1$ to produce for myself

David
 
S Haze
Posts: 229
Location: Southern Minnesota, USA, zone 4/5
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Just curious, this may seem crazy, but why not do a little bit of everything? Diversity in produce will probably be helpful in resilience, because in both the economy and the ecology, the more diverse the species are and the more plentiful connections are between organisms, the more resilient and persistent the system will be.


I totally agree! Time is the biggest constraint here and depends on things like what big projects are going on at the farm over the given timeframe and what other commitments you have. Partners or hired help (or slave children! :twisted make a big difference too. However I don't think one should plan on making a profit right away on most enterprises if you're trying to start lots of things at once. It will likely take years to sort out what has profit potential and how everything can be put together in order to minimize work and function as a system. Profit potential of course doesn't have to just mean income if one piece of the whole is working for another piece. It's good to experiment and do things differently each time in order to see what interactions can happen. Make sure your time is an investment and not simply spent, but remembering that all investments don't always pay back at least in the ways we might expect.




edited to change smiley face to devil face, children in slavery doesn't make me smile but it's good for them if it's your own kids and not really evil
 
Andy Reed
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I would run some cows on the pasture, how many depends on the size of your pasture. Beef cows, something like Wagyu which gives a big profit per head, higher initial costs but same ongoing costs, and a couple of dairy cows milk and butter for you and some to sell.

I would make Sep Holtzer style zigzag paths upslope through the woodland and shift a mobile chicken house (egg mobile) up the track as well as through the pastures. At least 100 chickens fully free ranged.

I would cut down some of the trees, make Holtzer earth shelters and pig shelters where appropriate, then electric fence pig paddocks and introduce various grasses and legumes to the cleared areas with an expensive breed of pigs. Sell pigs for meat and breeding.

I would put in lots of ponds, some really big ones as well as infrastructure for stock water and irrigation.

I would make a swaled food forest with as many varieties as I could think of, not many of each, just enough for personal use friends family etc.

I would put in a vege/herb garden for the home.

That would do, for a while, I'd keep the rest of the money to live off while I waited for income from the livestock.
 
Peter Ellis
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Rather than think in terms of what single choice would be most profitable, I would suggest thinking as a farmer who recognizes that from year to year conditions favor different crops, the market is fickle and moves its favor around, a really succesful year for growing a given crop can result in suppressed prices and you may have both your largest production and smallest profit margin in the same year.

So rather than what would be my most profitable crop, I would want to think along the lines of Joel Salatin. How many income streams can I get off this hundred acres?

Fruits and nuts are not going to start making any money until they start producing and that will be several years, so there needs to be a plan for that interim period. That interim plan needs to be compatible with the longer term plan. Regulatory environment definitely impacts choices. Are you able to sell up to x number of poultry slaughtered on the farm directly from the farm? Or is that off the table from the beginning? Changes the possible profit margin on the birds quite a bit.

What skills are you going in with and how much will you have to learn on the job? Are you both good with animals and ok with the idea that all of em you are raising and caring for are being raised for slaughter? If that is not a comfortable space, you might not want tonget too involved with livestock and focus on plants.

Mushrooms are a relatively low effort, low investment, high yield option, but probably not the one thread you want to hang everything from. Right now would be a good time to cut trees and set up a laying yard for mushrooms, to be innoculated in the spring. First yield probably in spring 2016, but modest investment to get started.

Again, might be worth considering some of Salatin's advice regarding the concept of portable farm infrastructure. It's flexible, allowing you to adapt to changing conditions.
I would think in terms of market analysis - what are people in the area buying; then look at what on that list I could expect to grow successfully.
With a list of in demand items that I could grow, I would start looking at possible interrelationships. Which of these things can I put together, which will provide synergies? Which can I stack, in time or space or both? What is the time line on returns from each? What are the maintenance needs of each and what donthey look like over time?
Are there synergies I can achieve regarding the maintenance needs? Mark Shephard talks about cows pruning his apple trees, taking off the lower branches and so reducing apple scab in his orchard. He runs the pigs through after the apple harvest to clean up the windfalls and the rejects from picking, which makes happy pigs and breaks pest cycles in the orchard.

Synergies save money. Synergies that lead to multiple yields not only save you money but make you more money.

And my personal nightmare, sales, promotion, marketing. Does not matter how good your product, how efficient your operation, how happy your cows. If you cannot get people to buy your product it will not make you money. Might want to think hard about how much of that hundred thousand to earmark and set aside for advertising when you are ready to figuratively open your doors.

As always, trying to answer this sort of question is at least as much an exercise for me in thinking through my own process for the prospective farm as it may be helping another person to think about some elements that might be helpful to them
 
Ken Peavey
steward
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Jonathan Overlin wrote:
Your house and land are paid for
you have 78 acres of mostly wooded land
you have a loafing shed, some paddocks and an old tractor
you also have 100k to invest in enterprises
What would you do?


My house and land will be paid for in a few months
I have 3.7 acres, mostly pasture, some woods.
I've got a garage, a small livestock shelter, and a lawn mower.
I have a few dollars that I have not yet spent.

I would do those things which I enjoy doing and which generate enough income so I can keep doing it. It may not be the most profitable, but it can provide a comfortable living. If I like what I'm doing it's not really work. If all I do is pay the bills, I can break free of the bonds of employment. This is about 500/month for me. I can grow vegetables and sell them right from the field. I'd like that. About a half an acre should be enough for me to reach financial independence, accounting for taxes, and some extra to develop other projects. Those other projects can be whatever strikes my fancy.
Without that job thing, my time belongs to me.
That's what I would do: buy my independence.

If money is what you want, you can make lots of it, more than you can spend. Go get it.
I can use more money than I have, but I also want to do things that have nothing to do with money.

I would get some ducks. I like ducks. I think this place would be more fun with ducks around. And some chickens, maybe some turkeys.
I would like to build some solar equipment with which to experiment. I've built dehydrators and box heaters. I'd like to try out different solar cookers.
I would like to establish a berry patch. Strawberries, raspberries, blueberries all grow well and are so tasty.
I would like to build a kitchen, get it licensed for commercial production, and put the unsold vegetables and berries to good use. While I'm at it, I'd like to teach classes (I can cook!) in that kitchen for others to learn how to can, dry, pickle, and prepare all that good stuff. I would make some videos about cooking, and canning, and growing vegetables, and doing the things I want to do. I can probably make some more money doing that, which I could put back into doing more things that I want to do.
I would like to set up some tanks for raising catfish. Catfish, potatoes, fresh peas, and strawberry ice cream makes for an awesome meal.
I would like to get some help. With so much going on that needs attention, and with the bills covered, and with plenty of food around, I could offer someone the chance to get involved, learn, and become prepared to start their own farm. If my help is working hard, learning, and mastering skills, I'd like to help them get what they want.
With some help around here I could do even more. I could spend more time writing about stuff. These forums have a wealth of information, but we've barely scratched the surface. There is more out there to figure out, and sharing what is learned gets more people involved so we can figure out even more stuff. Some of this stuff can be used to make a little money. If we figure out enough stuff, lots of people can use the information to do those things they want to do.

Now I've helped to make a difference.




 
Cj Sloane
pollinator
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Peter Ellis wrote:
Again, might be worth considering some of Salatin's advice regarding the concept of portable farm infrastructure. It's flexible, allowing you to adapt to changing conditions.


I'm in a similar situation as the OP. My biggest problem ATM is storage. Even if I can harvest all the feed for my animals, I can't store them properly without new infrastructure. Peter, does Salatin mention this at all? His climate is a little more forgiving than mine & I'm think he purchases his feed locally. I wonder how much he stores?
 
Peter Ellis
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Cj Verde wrote:
Peter Ellis wrote:
Again, might be worth considering some of Salatin's advice regarding the concept of portable farm infrastructure. It's flexible, allowing you to adapt to changing conditions.


I'm in a similar situation as the OP. My biggest problem ATM is storage. Even if I can harvest all the feed for my animals, I can't store them properly without new infrastructure. Peter, does Salatin mention this at all? His climate is a little more forgiving than mine & I'm think he purchases his feed locally. I wonder how much he stores?


He talks some about buying in hay rather than growing his own, and that he purchases winter feed for his cows and pigs. I *think* I have heard him mention how many days he has of winter feeding, but I do not recall the number and I don't recall hearing him give any explanation of how he stores the feed.

Of course, Joel is so prolific in interviews and lectures, and so many are on YouTube, he may cover it in detail and I just have not come across it yet
 
Andy Reed
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He feeds 40 days per year. Keeps his hay in a barn/feeding shed. He does a fair bit of standing hay for the winter.

We used to stack up rows of hay bales in a small area of trees, then cover with tarpaulin. The trees keep most of the rain off of the sides the tarpaulin only covers over the top. It works reasonably well.
 
R Scott
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He used to feed in barns, with the feeders on winches to raise them as the "material" built up. Then he let the pigs in to pigearate the compost and make it easy to dig out.

I definitely see the value of buying hay when it is cheap and feeding "wastefully" to create fertilizer. It helps that he has a sawmill and plenty of free carbon to use as bedding in his system to capture all the nitrogen.
 
siu-yu man
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well, if you're looking towards a positive ROI and are not too far from a metro area, how about building a tiny house (on wheels or not, depending on your zoning regs) up in the woods and then doing an AirBnB? city folk like nothing more then to get out into nature for a few days.

on a tangent, next time you're in the city, go to the hippest area in town, walk into the boutiques/cafes/restaurants and keep your eye out for what is there that your land could now/potentially provide.

also, with that much forest and cash, i would definitely consider investing in a portable sawmill. and some infrastructure to harness energy from your environment.

just some thoughts to add to the stew...
 
Nick Kitchener
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Sepp once said the best thing to do is look around at what your neighbours are doing, and then do something else.

This way you are supplying a local market with few competitors and so your profit margins can be higher.

Chances are your neighbours are in beef, corn, or soy beans. Maybe wheat or barley depending on how far West you are.

A permaculture orchard is a possibility if you have time on your side. Especially if you integrate nuts, and use the alleys to raise some animals.

Medicinal plants and mushrooms is a niche not many people think about.

Someone mentioned pigs already. Make sure you process the meat into cured products as they fetch a big premium - free range, forest finished, locally smoked bacon and prosciutto is in short supply and very expensive. The thing is you need the forest in place and producing good food. Acorns, hazels, walnuts, pecans, etc.

Another option is to make compost and worm castings. I know is seems weird, but city folks pay a lot of money for quality compost for their gardens.

With the rise of micro-breweries, there is a growing demand for specific quality ingredients. The big breweries dictate pretty much what varieties of hops and barley that get grown, and these are not what the craft brewing industry actually wants.
Incorporating some rarer barley plantings and hop vines (if the climate is suitable) could work nicely. Since you might already be incorporating barley plantings as part of a crop rotation then you might as well do it with something interesting. The same goes for heritage wheat varieties that artisan bakers would kill for.

You can use the straw for growing gourmet mushrooms, run chickens or ducks in the fields to glean any leftover grain, and the barley that doesn't make malting grade can be fed to your livestock.

Consider the PR aspect of doing something like this too. Even if an undertaking like this is marginally profitable, it raises public awareness and opens doors of opportunity to additional income streams.

 
Jay Grace
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Someone else may have already said this. But if you focus on feeding yourself first that will cut a majority if not all of your own food bill.
Why sell stuff to make money then turn around and use that money to by food you could have grown?

If you are looking to set your grandkids or great grandkids up. I would plant black walnuts. (or depending on your location a combination of other high value nut / lumber trees)

http://www.profitableplants.com/5-most-profitable-nut-trees-to-grow/

yes, the harvest schedule is something along the lines of 35yrs-50yrs- 75yrs+ for black walnuts

But you could gross $100k+ per acre by selling ultra prime veneer quality logs to the highest bidder and have the trees selectively harvested.



 
Simon Johnson
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Cj Verde wrote:Before you do anything, take a PDC.

I was very happy with Geoff Lawton's online PDC. Another will start probably next April.


Geoff is starting up his online pdc in February I believe.
 
William Horvath
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Hey Jonathan.

If I understood you correctly you love the lifestyle and you don't need much to make a living. You own the land and have no mortgage, you even have 100000$ you could invest. You already have what others are striving for all their life.

Here is what you could consider and in this order:

1. Joel Salatin said: "don’t start farming with shopping list; work with what you have" - think what not to buy first
2. Get some skills - take PDC, courses, workshops, learn about marketing - the best investment you can make is invest in your brain
3. You’ll need some sort of a business plan on what can provide you with an early cashflow. Start this by doing market research in your area. Initial market research is important because you want to produce things or offer services that people want to buy.
4.Invest in Hydratation - no plant can grow without water
5.Lower your food bill - grow what you eat
6.Now down to business - get only 1 enterprise going and well established, focus just on that - being all over the place is being nowhere, niche down and expand later, make people know you for something and make them trust you

Here are some options for quick cashflow:

Growing Annuals and quick yielding perennials - One of the quickest thing you can grow and sell are annual plants and quick yielding perennials such as herbs
Raising Animals - Raising animals is probably the biggest bang for the buck but depends if you are a plant guy or animal guy and can handle the processing
Nursery business - Having a nursery business should be just an extension of what you should be doing anyways

Good Luck, such an exciting times for you. Would like to hear about your journey.


 
Chris DeBoer
Posts: 30
Location: Boulder, CO
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Jonathan,

I'm in a similar situation accept with degraded pasture chockfull of weeds. What I do have instead of forested regrowth is LOTS of indoor green house space and am set up for great plant propagation and a nursery. Unfortunately there seems to be a lot of nurseries around but if I am growing what I install in some consulting work it might be a viable option.

Personally, I'm much more of a plant guy. I'm in Colorado and the microbrewery business is booming so the earlier post regarding specialty hops in my alkaline soil peaked my curiosity. I'm also looking at some solar dehydrators for herbs to sell to local apothecaries, and maybe some medicinal and food mushrooms as there's a large pole barn on the property.

One of the first things I'm gonna do this winter is visit some of the premium market areas Aspen/Vail and nab a bunch of menu's from all the places and see what I might be able to provide.

As I get ready to graduate university (24 years old), i'm using what resources I can to do market research from afar....then this summer while I get all the system up and running, do soil tests, water tests, I will also do some primary market research. Look to see if I can lean on some folks with experience, look to get a contract with someone to provide what I'm most confident I can deliver on and start there. Luckily I've got some family and friends with special knowledge and a good network to get me going.

I don't want to enable it with all my cash but want to stay real lean.....and grow my own food! ought to be empowering...

Personally, Peter's remarks rang true for me and they're much appreciated!

Cheers,

Chris
 
Rhys Firth
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For me in the OPs place, I would be planting Ginseng under the trees, takes around 5 years to mature but gives a good return sold into the Chinese market.

Meanwhile for income I would have a couple of acres in niche-ish crops, artichokes, angelica for candying, high value but finicky things. If you have an acre or so of crop in the midst of 2 or 3 of predator host species you have a better chance of a high maintenance high value organic crop making it to market than an organic monoculture farmer.
 
Pia Jensen
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What a great opportunity!

In Southern Costa Rica, near the Panama border, rural country, a friend researched all the possible ag enterprises to find one with the best profit margin and least time required. Pigs came out on top of the list and he commenced - he sells every pig at six weeks. He has to hire a couple younger men to help him load the pigs, but, other than that, it's easy for him and the product - live, young pigs - is very popular where he is. Location, product niche, ease, budget conscious...

My experiences include partnerships to advance causes. While I am no fan of Chambers of Commerce, you might want to consider making strategic alliances to help shape and then promote your activity.

Do you want to, for example, host a demonstration hugelkultur/permaculture enterprise? If you do, develop your pitch and meet with local folks and gov to introduce your ideas for sustainable ag and how that can impact local community, make a list of those who might play a key role - chamber of commerce, government environment office(s), permaculture folks!, local chapters of native plant society, master gardeners, farm to table, food for schools, - if there's a river near your property - River Watch...etc etc... find out what they would want to see the project produce... what does the market demand or need but doesn't know it needs...

You might even find some financial matches to amp up the value of your 100K, esp. if you develop a partnership focus ... and you might wind up with a bunch of volunteers!
 
George Hayduke
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I've been in a similar situation. If had to do it over again I would not raise large livestock. Cattle, hogs, and sheep require expensive fencing and then will spend the rest of their lives trying to destroy it. Also, transporting them to a slaughterhouse can be an expensive and stressful endeavor. Everything about large livestock is difficult for small operations.

Think niche markets and high-value-add products. If I were a short distance from a large city I would raise heirloom vegetables for upscale restaurants. Ask the chefs what they want. Don't assume you know the answer. I would also consider raising heritage breed chickens if you can find a local processor. Check out this article about the increase in interest in gourmet chickens.

Start small and use the feedback of the marketplace to direct your future expansion. A lot of things you try will fail. Don't invest enough where failure is catastrophic. I lost a lot of money for several years until I hit on the right combination of products. In 2014, I grossed $315,000 on less than four acres. Take your time, don't risk too much on any untested idea, and hoard your cash until you're sure you have a market-proven winner.
 
Pia Jensen
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perhaps while you take time to figure out the full view, venture into Rabbits
 
Hester Winterbourne
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Location: West Midlands UK (zone 8b)
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I am into people at the moment. If I had land and was within 20 minutes of a large population, I would be looking for increase the number of people who benefit from the land. That might be teaching about nature, or bushcraft/wild food, or permaculture, or more conventional agriculture or horticulture, or something more spiritual. I would be looking to benefit groups that maybe don't usually experience the outdoors. That might be kids, people who are vulnerable mentally or physically, underprivileged folks. It would exist alongside producing food etc for myself, my family and others. Say you invited 10 people each weekend to spend a weekend in your woodland, with a couple of weekends off that's 500 people enriched through experiencing your land, and more in tune with the issues. We can't all live on a few acres, but we could teach a lot more people to want to live more sustainably with what they have and appreciate their environment.
 
Dan Huisjen
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Location: Acadia Region, Maine.
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Once upon a time there was a nearly bankrupt farmer who won a million dollars in the lottery. When asked what he was going to do with his winnings, he said "Oh, I'll just keep farming until it's all gone."

Gene Logsdon has said that there are very few farmers who make their living solely on the farm. They may be a bookkeeper or a carpenter or a nurse or a poet or an engineer, but they have a day job of some sort. So, get a day job, preferably one you can do from home and eliminate commuting or one that gives you access to a valuable waste stream. Value added farm products would count, I think.

I agree with all the comments saying to feed yourself first, and to avoid large animals if you aren't very used to them already. Last I knew, permanent fences cost about $2 per linear foot, and you could eat up a lot of your nest egg with fences. I wouldn't do that. Put up electric fence and make sure it's hot and make sure the animals are trained to it.

Animals should do more than eat. I'm going to get five pigs in a few weeks. They're going to be set to work establishing shallow ridges on contour in a field, because they tend to push soil into ridges along their fence lines anyway. They're also going to be set after a patch of sunchokes that have been spreading for ten years.

Buying in hay is buying in fertility. The only question is if the price is reasonable. Once you buy that fertility, have a plan for holding onto it.

Tractors, implements, and large trucks are money pits. Be careful.

Overall, I'd say you have more land than one person should have to deal with.

 
Louis Mathis
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check out permaculture/lots of fun and benifits//we are doing it here and it is very interesting
 
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