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Tiny House Cook Stove and Heater

 
pollinator
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Michael Linville wrote:I’m wondering if it’d work okay to scale this system down to a 4” one. I’m living in the foothills of the Himalayans, and the local stoves all have 4” flues. I would use it (at least for this season) solely for heat and some cooking. I won’t do the mass heater part or even the extra part for warming water. I don’t have a lot of room, and it’ll be freestanding in the middle of the room (I’ll move it at the end of the season). Basically, I’m thinking about building your riser-less core and adding a top to it (granite, concrete, or a big slab of rock).  I can get the ceramic fiber panels, and I’ll put a metal casing around the sides and bottom.  Do you see any red flags to this? I greatly appreciate your help, and I greatly appreciate you sharing this new system you’ve developed!



Michael, thanks so much for the kind words and interest.  I have to admit that I truly do not know the answer to your question.  I suspect that it would likely scale down and work wonderfully, although I do only think that of your proposed configuration.  I do not think a 4" core would function at all trying to drive mass.  However, a simple little cook stove made by capturing the core in a metal skin like my Aluminum Series has a very good chance of functioning acceptably, in my opinion.  I think it's worth a try.
 
pollinator
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I'm am really loving this design Matt!

I am setting up an off grid camper trailer to live in as I build and this stove might be the thing for me to keep warm in the winter and cook on.  

So with that, I'm looking to keep the weight down of course.  I won't be towing the trailer around though and will support the floor.  

Any thoughts on tweaking things things here and there in the design to keep it as small as possible?  

It's a fine line to balance the weight issue in a trailer with having a nice mass to keep the heat in over the night.  I wonder where that line might be when installing this kind of stove in a camper trailer?  I certainly can't be running the propane furnace all winter in Ontario to stay warm and cook with...

Any way.  Great stuff here Matt.  I'll post my build if I do end up putting this design in the trailer.  Thanks for the videos, they are super helpful!
 
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Hi Matt

Thank you very much for what you are doing.
Your builds and videos are very informative and inspiring. Even if they are not exactly what I want to build, they are close enough for me to learn from them. But since they are not exactly the build I was hoping to make for my home, I was just wondering if you have a two for one price that has the plans and guide for both the Tiny Masonry Cook Stove and the Full Masonry Cook Stove?

And by any chance, do you also have plans for you Aluminum stoves?

And do you have plans of coming up with a book or maybe even a video series for sale about the science, mechanics, and the detailed instructions for building your cook stoves/ovens including options and modifications like white ovens, black ovens, etc?

Thank you again for what you have shared to everyone.
 
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Hello Matt,
I've just downloaded your plans for the Tiny Stove - I appreciate all the work you've put in!
I work with hot glass in kilns and furnaces, and have some experience with ceramic fibreboard. While it's light, easy to cut, and obviously heat resistant, I don't have quite so much confidence about the long term durability.
We use mullite kiln shelves which are solid - a similar consistency and hardness to firebrick, and are available in various thicknesses. The pieces would naturally have to be fire-cemented together.
We regularly take the mullite shelves up to around 1800º F, but haven't gone much higher than that.

Assuming I can cut it relatively easily, if I wanted to construct the core in this type of material, or fire-brick for durability, how do you think it would affect the thermal performance?
The ceramic fibre would no doubt have more of an insulating effect on the surrounding bricks I'm guessing??
 
rocket scientist
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Hi Mike;
Until Matt has time to respond. I will give you my opinion of your idea. Keep in mind that Matt's opinion as a master builder may wildly differ from mine.
Apparently ceramic board hardens after firing but retains its insinuative property's.  It does not hold up long if exposed to abrasion. After  reading about "mullite shelves" it sounds like they are built for strength at high temps not insulation.  
Ceramic boards are being used for the insinuative value not strength or abrasion resistance.  I suspect  if you were to replace cf board with mullite in Matts stove design that it may not function properly at all.  You need the heat to travel to its  destination not lose its "steam" heating up the mullite and whatever is behind it.  
My understanding of Matts riserless design is that it needs to keep moving to reach the desired temperatures for a clean burn.
In a J tube application split firebrick is being used in the feed tube for abrasion then switching to ceramic fiber board for the burn tunnel and start of riser.  Ceramic blanket is being used as a riser.
With some investigation/ experimentation "mullite" might make a suitable / superior ?  feed tube material.
 
Matt Walker
pollinator
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Hey guys, sorry I missed so many posts here.  

Mike, Thomas got it pretty much exactly right. No surprise there!  The CFB doesn't hold up too well to abrasion, but it lasts indefinitely in the flame path.  I find that I don't beat up my firebox as much as one would expect, these stoves are cool and easy to load so you don't bang wood into them like in a typical box stove.  As such, I'm on year three with my core and while there is visible wear in the firebox it still isn't an issue. When it's time to replace, a couple new small cheek boards can be easily inserted into the firebox and I'm good for a few more years.  

The performance benefit is worth it to me to deal with a bit of abrasion wear.  The firebox is sized such that one could line it with firebrick splits, or your kiln shelf, to eliminate wear issues, but I've found that I don't care for how that performs.  It creates poor burns and hot, hard loading conditions. That's a decision that one can make on their own once the stove is built.

As for building the whole core out of Mullite, I suspect performance would suffer.  That said, I'm just wrapping up a firebrick version of this core to offer with the Tiny Cook Stove Plans for those who can't or don't want to source ceramic fiber board.  The efficiency will suffer a bit, but they are still fantastic cook stoves.  So, I suspect you could use the mullite if you preferred.  If you do, I'd love to hear your experience.

Ju, the aluminum stoves are just skins over my ceramic board cores, so the core plans basically are the aluminum stoves.  I'm happy to help with skin details if you decide to build one.  I don't have any package deals at the moment, but I really like the ideas for books and video series you propose.  I will work on those!  Thanks for the kind words.

Simon, you are right it's a fine line.  I suspect that if you build just the stove body with no bench you would have a small cook stove mass heater that would heat your space for 8 hours or so after a burn.  Hope that helps.

Thanks all for the support!!

 
Matt Walker
pollinator
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I just received a lovely email from a customer and I had to share this beautiful work with you all.  Check out this gorgeous Tiny Cook Stove!  It is so cool to see these coming to life, thanks for all of your support Permies!








You can see more here.

 
pollinator
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Nice Coleman stove! What are those metal pipes sticking out used for?
 
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I absolutely love this solution. Ingenious design. What would it take for me to find a way to build something like this that could withstand a tiny house on wheels that is moved frequently?
 
steward
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Hi Jordan! Welcome to permies!

I think this kind of rocket mass heater and trailer would be able to transposrted in a tiny house trailer, since it can be moved on a bike trailer.



The cyclone batch style rocket mass heater might also work well in a tiny house situation.



Also, this tiny house cook stove and heater might work well for your situation.



 
thomas rubino
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Hi Jordan;   The problem with a masonry stove and a traveling tiny house , is cracking...They are built with clay as mortar not cement.   I suspect that it could travel infrequently if driven carefully,. But ultimately I think any masonry would crack out on you.    That said, it is just my opinion...  with care it could travel just fine for years …
Matts designs are state of the art and just dang good looking to boot! I can see why you would like one!
 
Jordan Gonzales
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thomas rubino wrote:Hi Jordan;   The problem with a masonry stove and a traveling tiny house , is cracking...They are built with clay as mortar not cement.   I suspect that it could travel infrequently if driven carefully,. But ultimately I think any masonry would crack out on you.    That said, it is just my opinion...  with care it could travel just fine for years …
Matts designs are state of the art and just dang good looking to boot! I can see why you would like one!



I guess that's my question. Is there a way to design one to be suitable for my needs? Are there sturdier construction options?
 
thomas rubino
rocket scientist
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Hi Jordan;
  No matter what you use it will be a gamble about cracking.
The only thing that might hold up is true refractory cement (not cheap , fire clay $7.00 a bag, refractory cement $70-100 a bag...)  I'm sure it would do better than a clay mortar but you would want to dive very carefully AND I would keep materials on hand to repair if necessary.

I hate to even say this (being a huge RMH proponent)  but … if your moving your house frequently, than a small cast iron (metal) stove might be a better choice to start with.


At some point in the future you may find your mobile house is less mobile and you might feel safer building a masonry stove.
 
gardener
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Jordan Gonzales wrote:

thomas rubino wrote:Hi Jordan;   The problem with a masonry stove and a traveling tiny house , is cracking...They are built with clay as mortar not cement.   I suspect that it could travel infrequently if driven carefully,. But ultimately I think any masonry would crack out on you.    That said, it is just my opinion...  with care it could travel just fine for years …
Matts designs are state of the art and just dang good looking to boot! I can see why you would like one!



I guess that's my question. Is there a way to design one to be suitable for my needs? Are there sturdier construction options?

thomas rubino wrote:Hi Jordan;
  No matter what you use it will be a gamble about cracking.
The only thing that might hold up is true refractory cement (not cheap , fire clay $7.00 a bag, refractory cement $70-100 a bag...)  I'm sure it would do better than a clay mortar but you would want to dive very carefully AND I would keep materials on hand to repair if necessary.

I hate to even say this (being a huge RMH proponent)  but … if your moving your house frequently, than a small cast iron (metal) stove might be a better choice to start with.


At some point in the future you may find your mobile house is less mobile and you might feel safer building a masonry stove.



Myself, i see a solution.


Minnie mouse, X2




http://donkey32.proboards.com/thread/2368/peter-bergs-minnie-mouse-houses

Well, in the following thread, you see the metal "home heating fuel tanks" that i use. I bet there is aplenty of tanks like this everywhere in the world.

https://permies.com/t/44806/Cobbling-workshop-heater

Find yourself one of the right size for your vehicle. Line the walls with dry stacked bricks. And hold there in place with rebar grid, like the concrete floor reinforcements. Or even with tacked steel plate. Then, you can drive at whatever spped you want. The bricks will move slightly, but never fall!  Same treatement for the "burner" made out of a metal casing, heavy bricks and a five minute riser. That would be hard to break! And will keep it's air tightness.

 
Jordan Gonzales
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Satamax Antone wrote:

Jordan Gonzales wrote:

thomas rubino wrote:Hi Jordan;   The problem with a masonry stove and a traveling tiny house , is cracking...They are built with clay as mortar not cement.   I suspect that it could travel infrequently if driven carefully,. But ultimately I think any masonry would crack out on you.    That said, it is just my opinion...  with care it could travel just fine for years …
Matts designs are state of the art and just dang good looking to boot! I can see why you would like one!



I guess that's my question. Is there a way to design one to be suitable for my needs? Are there sturdier construction options?

thomas rubino wrote:Hi Jordan;
  No matter what you use it will be a gamble about cracking.
The only thing that might hold up is true refractory cement (not cheap , fire clay $7.00 a bag, refractory cement $70-100 a bag...)  I'm sure it would do better than a clay mortar but you would want to dive very carefully AND I would keep materials on hand to repair if necessary.

I hate to even say this (being a huge RMH proponent)  but … if your moving your house frequently, than a small cast iron (metal) stove might be a better choice to start with.


At some point in the future you may find your mobile house is less mobile and you might feel safer building a masonry stove.



Myself, i see a solution.


Minnie mouse, X2




http://donkey32.proboards.com/thread/2368/peter-bergs-minnie-mouse-houses

Well, in the following thread, you see the metal "home heating fuel tanks" that i use. I bet there is aplenty of tanks like this everywhere in the world.

https://permies.com/t/44806/Cobbling-workshop-heater

Find yourself one of the right size for your vehicle. Line the walls with dry stacked bricks. And hold there in place with rebar grid, like the concrete floor reinforcements. Or even with tacked steel plate. Then, you can drive at whatever spped you want. The bricks will move slightly, but never fall!  Same treatement for the "burner" made out of a metal casing, heavy bricks and a five minute riser. That would be hard to break! And will keep it's air tightness.



Hey now. That could work!
 
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Hi Matt, we are in the process of planning our tiny house and overall the stove looks really it could be a really great fit. I was wondering if it would be possible to get it smaller both in width and depth, as well as having the pipe go out at the top of the stove rather than at the back? Of course I will be happy with a smaller stove top as well as less mass if necerssary. Also I generally try to avoid aluminium as a material entirely, so would there be any alternatives for the inuslation as well as for the door? Also could the door have a larger glass, as the stove should also double up as a light source in the evenings? In your last video you are mentioning that it is necessary to replace the Pre-Port Secondary air tube every so-often. Is ther a way to build it without this element, as ideally I would really like avoid having to replace a part regularly.
 
thomas rubino
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Hi Markus;
Welcome to Permies! And Welcome to the wonderful world of rocket scientists!

The first thing I will tell you is you can ask Matt questions live!   TODAY or every Wednesday at 11 am Pacific .
Matt has a live show called stove chat with Matt. Here is the  link https://www.youtube.com/user/broaudio?app=desktop

Now I'll try to answer a few of your questions.  If you don't like my answers ask Matt at the show or directly at  http://walkerstoves.com/  He is very busy building and rarely finds time to visit Permies now.
I would say that no you can't get his small stove any smaller. He has larger ones but not smaller. But ask Matt, he may have a different answer.
There may be options about the exhaust stack placement.
Yes, there is a cast iron door that Matt recommends , it does have a large window.  It is a Pisla #426 door. There is an all steel door soon to be available , but the window is only 3" round.
The secondary air tube itself will be fine. What does need replaced from time to time is the riser stub. Its on top of the secondary tube.
Removal of the tube is easy easy, and Matt's design uses  a bolt-able stub, also easy to replace.  Premade secondary air tubes are soon to be available at a reasonable cost as well.
 
out to pasture
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Just bumping this thread up as it seems to me that this stove is one that ticks a lot of the boxes for what is needed to get more people to adopt the technology.  

It's good looking, complete plans and build guides are available, no cob, uses a hollow stratification chamber rather than a solid mass to store the heat so it's lighter...
 
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Hi Matt Walker, I am looking to build an indoor cook stove and heater using an antique metal front panel, stove top and oven. I have included pictures. I know your design uses a ceramic top, my question is, can it be modified to include an oven and use my metal parts?
IMG_20231022_122356.jpg
old wood cookstove
IMG_20231022_122407.jpg
oven and firebox of old wood cookstove
IMG_20231022_122427.jpg
top burner plates of old wood cookstove
 
thomas rubino
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Hi Sarah;
Hopefully, Matt will see your post and reply.
If not you can message him at his website.  https://walkerstoves.com/

I have seen a J-Tube built inside an old cook stove before, (yours is very cool-looking).
I'm sure with enough reworking, one of Matt's cores could be built inside.
It might be a lot more work than just building a brick cook stove using Matt's core.

Another thought might be to use your stove by building a J-Tube inside of it and using it in an outdoor kitchen for summer use.



 
Rocket Scientist
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I dont think Matt visits this forum anymore, you may be able to utilise the old oven but any metal exposed to direct flame will need to be covered in an insulating material.
Matts designs are lined with ceramic fibre board, so if the outside dimensions of his fire box design will fit inside, it will work.
 
Sarah Joubert
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thomas rubino wrote:Hi Sarah;
Hopefully, Matt will see your post and reply.
If not you can message him at his website.  https://walkerstoves.com/

I have seen a J-Tube built inside an old cook stove before, (yours is very cool-looking).
I'm sure with enough reworking, one of Matt's cores could be built inside.
It might be a lot more work than just building a brick cook stove using Matt's core.

Another thought might be to use your stove by building a J-Tube inside of it and using it in an outdoor kitchen for summer use.


Using it outside is definitely an option I am considering but have absolutely no idea how to go about it! Do you have a link to any resources? The other option I was thinking of was using the front piece (it's sooo pretty!) inside with a ceramic glass cooktop and build a j tube outside for the stove top but I'd really like to incorprate an oven into both stoves.

 
I agree. Here's the link: https://woodheat.net
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