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Ash Jackson wrote:

paul wheaton wrote:Maybe it would help to make a list of the 20 easiest BBs?  



#626: "What are YOUR 20 easiest BB's?" https://permies.com/t/143378/skills-inherit-property/easiest-BB

I'd love to hear what different people's 20 easiest BB's are...



Maybe worthy of a mention in the dailyish?
 
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paul wheaton wrote:Maybe it would help to make a list of the 20 easiest BBs?  



I think that’s what a lot of people in this thread are driving at. Most of these aren’t universally easy/hard. It’s circumstances of the individual that determine this.
 
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paul wheaton wrote:The suggestions so far:

  - introduce BB5, BB10 and BB20 (we're working on this now)

...

What about "air badge"?   A rather white badge for each aspect showing that you are actively working on that badge - that you have completed at least one BB?



Ok so this thread has been on my mind the last few days and got me to look through the PEP stuff again. And I must admit that it has filled out a lot since the last time I looked at it. There are many more BBs I could do, but still hardly any whole badges I could get. So I would be excited to participate in the BB5, BB10 etc. A piece of pie for each five would be plenty of motivation for me. 

An air badge would also be a nice recognition that I am at least one badge bit skilled in a badge area. 

I know the whole thing is still under construction, but I think it would be good to redo the gardening badges soon. Compared to the other badges it's very small. When I think permaculture, I think gardening, and I garden everyday, so I thought I would for sure be able to get the first badge for it. 

I think gardening would be the first badge a lot of people would look at. And if they can't do that one, then the others must be even harder, is what they might think. Almost everyone has said that hugelkultur is preventing them from getting any gardening badges. Maybe hugelkultur deserves its own badges separate from gardening?

Anyway I was looking through PEP for BBs I thought anyone could do. I see another thread for easiest BBs was created so I will put the list there. 

Funny this thread has gotten me really interested in getting some BBs!
 
paul wheaton
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Maybe a weekly skype call for the weekly BB?  And it could also be something with a lot of emphasis for people that have zero BBs.

 
paul wheaton
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paul wheaton wrote:Maybe a weekly skype call for the weekly BB?  And it could also be something with a lot of emphasis for people that have zero BBs.



Maybe the call could be recorded and put up on youtube?
 
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Yeah, maybe it would cover the details of the BB and then go into some hints and tips to make it a better experience.  Like using green wood vs dry for spoons.  Or not giving urine to growies in an upwind direction.  And emphasize the requirements and photos/video needed so people do that bit correctly.

Maybe a podcast for each Sand badge where we cover all the BBs and give hints and tips.  We've done the gardening and foraging podcasts but we just kind of run through the Sand/Straw/Wood/Iron levels.  This would be a more focused talk on Sand and how to succeed at that badge.
 
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Ash Jackson
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I admire the tremendous amount of work people are putting into making this project a reality. There is the issue of all that work. There needs to be all those hands to do it. There is a possibility of people getting burned out. I don't mean any offense by this, but at least some of what I have read reminds me of traditional farming. It looks like it may require constant tilling, fertilizing, weeding, etc. I think a good question to keep in the back of one's mind during the formation of a project like this is, "How can we make this more like permaculture itself?" How can it be guided into growing and supporting itself without so much constant work? I had an idea from the "haters gonna hate" thread. If haters are such an impediment to the spread of permaculture, why not have a segment of SKIP/PEP/BB dedicated to helping overcome this. Helping others. Peacemaking. It could embody your mentoring idea. I think mentoring could be a good essential to inherit property. It would make it more likely for the property to successfully be passed on multiple times in the future if each person who inherits it is a good mentor. And in response to some people's concerns, it can be done without any tools(other than a computer) online. Though such things may be difficult to quantify...maybe a series of endorsements from other permies (mentors) stating a belief that a certain task has been fulfilled, IDK.

Another idea I had has to do with the human tendency towards instant gratification. Many people are poor at planning ahead for a reward many years down the road. What can be done to entice people now? And what can be done to entice people like me who are not looking to inherit property? Paul, what can be done on Permies itself to mimic, or maybe even be a microcosm of the SKIP program? Instead of inheriting land, how about apples, PIE(or something similar but new), special privileges on the forum, sponsored prizes, etc.? I've considered doing some of the tasks myself for fun, but I ask myself why go to the trouble? Also, the more invested people become in Permies, the more likely they will be to stick around, and the more likely they will be to participate in these programs, etc.

Just some ideas I had, by no means complete, but I thought maybe they could plant some seeds in other people's minds to come up with something good.
 
Amy Arnett
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Reading more into PEP and PEX, is sounds like originally the idea was that if people wanted substitutions or to include different skills, they would write their own PEX BBs and get a badge for their own PEX? Or is a PEX expected to by a whole finished program, before badges are awarded?

But now most people are saying they want PEP to be more inclusive and aren't up for making their own PEX.  

Sorry, the more I read the more confused I get. I know it's all changing all the time as it's new. I know it takes a lot of time to create.

So would it be more helpful to draft possible substitutions and draft possible BBs we would want included and post them for consideration on the appropriate thread?

If they aren't accepted, we can use the draft to make our PEX someday.

Or would this make even more work for everyone?

 
Mike Haasl
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I think that if the PEP BBs aren't a good fit for your area of the world or your permaculture style, there are at least three approaches:

1.  If the change is within a BB, it would be subtle and likely would still be a reasonable fit for Montana, ask in the BB thread about your proposed change (ie a different kind of cleaner).  If the change would be about adding a BB option to a badge and would likely be a reasonable fit for Montana, ask in the badge thread about your proposed change (ie a different woodworking project).

2.  If your changes are more substantial (like you live in the tropics), AND if you're really into this and want it to work, consider developing a PEX with different initials.  So maybe a PEAA that is suited to Japan and similar climates.  It would likely consist of a direct copy of much of PEP (textiles, metalworking?) but with some different BB for some of the badges.  Maybe even a whole different badge or two?  I think Paul would be very open to having more PEXs appear here on Permies as long as they are as rigorous as PEP.  For instance, if I was making a PEX for my climate, I'd probably copy 90% of PEP and then make my own BBs for some badges.  Likely in Gardening and Woodland Care.

3.  Wait until you can find someone with the tools, land or circumstances where you can do the BB at their place.

So Yes, I think a PEX would ideally be fully developed before badges are granted.  But I guess I don't see why you couldn't create a few BBs to see how it goes.  But if you do, be sure to very clearly say in them that it wouldn't count towards a PEP badge (at least initially).  There's enough to learn for new folks so it would be pretty rough if they do a BB and then later find out it's not a PEP one.

Does that make sense?  Thanks for understanding that this is a developing effort
 
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I liked the idea since I first read on it in the forums. I mean: the PEX idea. PEP exists mostly of activities impossible for me. Like many others already said here: the circumstances are completely different from Paul Wheaton's. And inheriting a property? I'm not interested in that.
I started doing the BB's of things I already did before, most of it being Textiles. There's only 1 BB I still have to do before I can get the Badge: I have to make a pillow filled with un-spun wool. To get that wool I'll have to visit my wool spinning friends in another town, probably this or next month (by bicycle, which will take me more than a day, the nights I'll spend camping in my tiny tent).
When there will be a more general PEX, or more specific for urban people with small gardens, I can start doing more BBs.
 
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I have zero interest in the four badges for myself for many of the reasons already mentioned, but agree that if someone came to me with such a portfolio it would be helpful in evaluating them - although since I don't live next to Wheaton Labs many of the BBs aren't directly relevant and so completion is more an indicator of drive, organization,  and general experience.

I'm not going to waste a second of time to prove that I can wash dishes, make dinner, clean a freezer - but I'd be happy to see that someone else is house broken. On the other hand, the BB5, etc gives me some reason to work on the BBs that look interesting and are in reach.

That said ... I'm still not sure what benefit I'll derive from this.  I know that completing BBs helps the overall program by populating the library.  Weirdly enough, I'd rather be certified to teach/supervise others in a set of BBs - I've got plenty of acres and trees to play with and would genuinely enjoy working with people who don't have trees, chainsaws, backhoes, batteries, rocket ovens, etc.  Doing so might require some dispensation on the terms - such as cutting down live trees instead of dead ones, and I'd definitely want them to show BB5 or BB10 status before I share any time.
 
Amy Arnett
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Mike Haasl wrote:
Does that make sense?  Thanks for understanding that this is a developing effort



That makes sense. Thanks! My brain is buzzing with BBs!
 
Inge Leonora-den Ouden
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Eliot Mason wrote: ...
That said ... I'm still not sure what benefit I'll derive from this.  I know that completing BBs helps the overall program by populating the library.  Weirdly enough, I'd rather be certified to teach/supervise others in a set of BBs - I've got plenty of acres and trees to play with and would genuinely enjoy working with people who don't have trees, chainsaws, backhoes, batteries, rocket ovens, etc.  Doing so might require some dispensation on the terms - such as cutting down live trees instead of dead ones, and I'd definitely want them to show BB5 or BB10 status before I share any time.


Hi Elliot, probably in that case you'd better have your own PEX (named PEE? for Permaculture Experience according to Elliot). Then you can make your own terms / rules and invent your own badges and BBs. People who come and work/play there with you can earn those, instead of Paul's.
 
Ash Jackson
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I want to thank everyone for their contributions here.

The brainstorm session is not over; but it has sprouted several new efforts with threads and steam all their own.

If you'd like to help build those, take a look at the first post; there are links to the new things happening.
 
Eliot Mason
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Inge Leonora-den Ouden wrote:Hi Elliot, probably in that case you'd better have your own PEX (named PEE? for Permaculture Experience according to Elliot). Then you can make your own terms / rules and invent your own badges and BBs. People who come and work/play there with you can earn those, instead of Paul's.



Yeah, not happening.  I think the PEX idea is useful as a general framework, but the idea that I must recreate the whole program to adapt to my locale is death to expansion of the program, creates balkanization/fragmentation and probable internecine warfare.  The issue isn't the "Paul" in PEP, its the Wheaton Labs.  Its really PEP-WL.  I don't want to water down the site-specific requirements of WL, but the learning experience can surely have a parallel in similar tasks.

Schools are accredited so everyone understands that classes mean, more or less, the same thing and credits can transfer between institutions. I don't want someone to do a PEX bb but then find that it doesn't count in PEP and no badge for you!   I guess I'm advocating for a PEP-X program instead of PEX.  Take the tree felling BB.  PEP-WL requires felling dead trees, and while there are differences in the skills for felling dead vs live trees (pretty marginal differences in small bore trees), PEP-BeaverCreek  (PEP-BC) needs to thin live trees and has almost no standing dead trees.   I want to preserve Paul's dominion and not dilute his site specific requirements while creating appropriate BB substitutes.  I know Paul wants me to remove these live trees (cuz he told me so) as part of a replacement program, so felling live trees clearly fits the general flavor of PEP.

Another way of thinking about this is Open Source Software - there are many examples, but take WordPress or Drupal for websites.  There is a core program in an "ecosystem" of plugins/modules/extensions that can be added.  The core acts very much like a backbone, and when the core doesn't quite do what you want then you can add a bit of code/functionality.  This is much better than everyone writing their own program each time, it builds a larger system with larger reach.

I don't want to redo - or even be responsible for maintaining - the textiles or kitchen skills BBs.  I do want an extension/module/plugin of tree-felling, fence-building, etc that I can add to the PEP core.

Perhaps I'm not understanding some details of the PEP program.

So I guess I'm saying, "I would do BBs - and create appropriate, approved substitutes - if the BBs were site adaptable."  In the meantime I will cheer on the project from the sidelines.
 
Mike Haasl
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Eliot Mason wrote:Weirdly enough, I'd rather be certified to teach/supervise others in a set of BBs - I've got plenty of acres and trees to play with and would genuinely enjoy working with people who don't have trees, chainsaws, backhoes, batteries, rocket ovens, etc.  Doing so might require some dispensation on the terms - such as cutting down live trees instead of dead ones, and I'd definitely want them to show BB5 or BB10 status before I share any time.



I came to this thread a bit late.  I'd say that there is definitely a place for folks who would be willing to have SKIP stuff happen at their place.  No teaching certification needed.  People could come for free or pay for the experience - it's up to you.  Hopefully it's a win/win where they get BBs and experience and you get warm fuzzies, some hugels and maybe some money.

If you wanted to do things that aren't BBs but are more applicable to your area, feel free.  I could see having someone over for a week to do 10 BBs and 5 other regionally applicable things.  Maybe they pay a bit for your time and you get some trees cut, firewood split and some dishcloths knitted.

Maybe a year from now there will be other PEX badges (woodland care - PNW) that are a better fit for your area and are approved as transfer credits for PEP.
 
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It seems that some of the more specific tasks could benefit from a "reasonable accommodations" clause. Maybe even have a small committee of judges who could look over a person's case and vote on whether they've proven they have the necessary ability, even though that person's situation made the exact task either undoable or unwise.

An example would be the junkpole fence described by Michael Cox. In his situation, a woven fence would more than prove he has the skill needed to make a junkpole fence, even if his fence is not, technically, a junkpole fence. In his case the committee could vote on whether he's proved his skills enough to give him the badge anyway.

Another example would be some of the plant-specific badges such as this one: https://permies.com/wiki/125939/Direct-Seed-Grow-Perennials-PEP

If the permie applying for the badge, or someone in their family, is deathly allergic to one of the plants on that list, they could petition for an accommodation to be made, and get another type of fruit substituted for the one they're allergic to.

If it's as simple as "that won't grow in my area", then they could petition for an accommodation to let them substitute something that will grow there.

Or how about the 7-foot tall hugelkulture bed, in an area where the bedrock is too close to the surface? Maybe allow them to build a raised hugel bed half that tall, but twice as long?

Each accommodation would be decided on a case-by-case basis, and would ONLY apply to the individual for whom it was granted, although the ones granted to previous applicants could be seen as precedents for future applications. If an applicant could describe their attempts to find ways to do it without the accommodation, and explain why those attempts failed, it would improve their case.

Would that open things up a bit, while still maintaining the difficulty level?
 
Ash Jackson
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paul wheaton
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Since the first days of trying to put this together, there have been a lot of people that need me to change things to fit them better.  

I need to emphasize:  I must make a version that works for me before I can make modifications.   And to do a good job it takes a long, long time.

So then people point out the idea of how these modifications can be small and make the whole thing more inclusive for thousands of people - isn't that worth it?  A small change for thousands?

I must make a version that works for me before I can make modifications.   And to do a good job it takes a long, long time.

What about people living in the tropics?

I must make a version that works for me before I can make modifications.   And to do a good job it takes a long, long time.

There are a lot of people that live in apartments and don't have access to acreage.

I must make a version that works for me before I can make modifications.   And to do a good job it takes a long, long time.

And some people live in an apartments but they do have access to a park nearby.

I must make a version that works for me before I can make modifications.   And to do a good job it takes a long, long time.

But some people live in an apartment, but they do have access to a park, but it is not like the earlier park - at all.

I must make a version that works for me before I can make modifications.   And to do a good job it takes a long, long time.

And some people live in an apartment, and there is a nearby park full of trees, and they are on friendly terms with their cousin that has three acres.

I must make a version that works for me before I can make modifications.   And to do a good job it takes a long, long time.

And some people live in an apartment, and there is a nearby park full of trees, and they are on friendly terms with their cousin that has half an acre.




In an effort to move forward, somebody states that it is impossible for them to do any of it.  Really?  You can't sharpen a knife or cook rice?  




I think for putting together something so powerful and offering it for free, people have some really huge expectations.   And when the "needs" are overwhelming and we ask for help, the same people are not really into that sort of thing.  

I suppose we could offer a program to make a PEX for somebody for $50,000 - but my guess is that they don't want to pay for something that will be free.   Or maybe they could pay $500 to get an enhancement to a BB that suits them better.  Again - they don't wanna.

Do people actually go to harvard and tell a dean of some school that they want a different program?  Actually, that doesn't seem so bad - after all, the dean and the massive staff is getting paid handsomely.  And if somebody wants a change for something like that, they are probably willing to put $50 million into harvard to get it.  And then the dean can hire a bunch of people to make it so.


------



Ash, thanks for starting this thread to improve the overall forward velocity.  I think we are on to something amazing here ... something that will dramatically improve the whole world, and change the lives of millions of people for the better.   There is a lot of hard work ahead and I'm glad to see you are hip deep in it.  

Thanks to Shawn for spending a couple hundred hours with me to get the first pass of all the sand badges defined.    Thanks to Mike for putting in another couple hundred hours to define a lot more badges.   Thanks to Ashley and Ash for helping in this big push.  

I think this thread has born some good fruit.  

And we are reminded that once we are done defining PEP we need to move on to PEA.  And when we are done with that, there is about 20 years more of stuff ...  but with a little luck we might get a bit more help.


 
Eliot Mason
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paul wheaton wrote:
I need to emphasize:  I must make a version that works for me before I can make modifications.   And to do a good job it takes a long, long time.



ABSOLUTELY.

For Paul and others here, I don't mean my position as whiny criticism but as a honest assessment.  I think the general idea of converting Permaculture concepts into skills with a clear ladder/progression is a tremendous contribution to further the adoption of Permaculture.  Or "infecting brains."  It has the potential to be the greatest thing since sliced bread.

But at this moment, to bring in icky corporate terms, I'm not the target consumer and that's totally appropriate.  I offer my opinions for what might make me a participant in a later stage.  In the interest of being heard I could have phrased myself better.

PEP is presently a beta version, moving towards. v 1.0.  THAT'S AWESOME.  There's a boatload of small issues that collectively are critical to PEP success, and extending the terms of PEP to address my needs is not critical to the success of this iteration.  My PEP-X idea is maybe a V2 feature add.  

So I won't be a PEP user at this time, but I will cheer it on and I hope that I'll have the time and energy to contribute to its development at a later stage.
 
Ash Jackson
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Ok, I'm going to try the first BB Club zoom call Wednesday, July 22nd at 8am Mountain Time.

This first week, we'll be working on the Community Sand BB: Make a Map: https://permies.com/wiki/101705/pep-community/PEP-BB-community-sand-map

Time zone converter here: https://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/converter.html?iso=20200722T140000&p1=3358&p2=tz_gmt&p3=51&p4=133&p5=3138&p6=246&p7=236&p8=22

Tell your friends! Join the fun; it's collective map-making time.

The details are here: https://permies.com/p/1126576
 
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If all the badges had reliable sources on the "how-to's" and if the badges were more neatly organized (perhaps a spreadsheet) so all the information is easily accessible I would feel more enticed to earn these badges. The forum is a catastrophe to navigate especially when looking for the PEP badge info, and the threads that this information is contained in is lacking sources as I mentioned, or it is formatted horribly.
 
Inge Leonora-den Ouden
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brenden elrod wrote:If all the badges had reliable sources on the "how-to's" and if the badges were more neatly organized (perhaps a spreadsheet) so all the information is easily accessible I would feel more enticed to earn these badges. The forum is a catastrophe to navigate especially when looking for the PEP badge info, and the threads that this information is contained in is lacking sources as I mentioned, or it is formatted horribly.


Hi Brenden, I think one of the reasons why it's looking chaotic, is that for every Badge someone else made the part in the Forum. Different people have different styles of writing and of organizing.
When you're fairly new to the Permies Forum it's difficult to find information. But you can get used to it, and then you know how to find what you're looking for.
 
Mike Haasl
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brenden elrod wrote:If all the badges had reliable sources on the "how-to's"

 We're deliberately trying to NOT tell you how to do the task or teach you how to do it.  That's up to you.  Often we're very helpful and include a youtube video that we think could help.  But the point of this journey is for you to do a bit of research on your own so you can accomplish the task.  In learning about each BB you probably accidentally learn something else that will help in your life (or in doing another BB).  


brenden elrod wrote:and if the badges were more neatly organized (perhaps a spreadsheet) so all the information is easily accessible I would feel more enticed to earn these badges.

 We've been working to make the navigation a bit better but I doubt it will get tremendously better than it is in This Thread.  That thread lists all the badges and you're two clicks away from the details of any BB.

There is an app for organizing yourself and the badges and you can check it out Here.  It's probably not as fancy as Twitter or TicTok but it's an app and that's what counts.

Thanks for the feedback and it might be a while before it gets too much fancier.  Of course if you change your mind at any time about pursuing PEP, you get your money back no questions asked!*

*since it's free
 
Ellendra Nauriel
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It occurred to me that I chimed in without answering the original question.

What would get me, in particular, to do the PEP/SKIP BBs?

What would get me doing them is if there were clear, tangible benefits for doing so.

There are a lot of BBs that I already qualify for, just because of the way I live. I haven't bothered going through the process of getting any, because I can't really understand why I should?

Don't get me wrong, 20 years ago I would've been all over those, just for the chance of being able to work toward a piece of land for my own. But I have my land now, and I love it. So does that mean the BBs are only good for bragging rights? I have no interest in bragging rights, or collecting badges for badges sake.

If I'm understanding that wrong, please say so?

Now, if there were some other benefit, such as "every badge earns you $X toward merchandise at participating online stores", then that would be different. It wouldn't have to be much, just something usable.
 
Mike Haasl
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True Ellendra, I'm in a similar spot.  I have a chunk of land and I don't plan to move.  But I have a weird psychological thing where getting badges is fun.  Maybe being a boy scout has something to do with it.  Hmm, nature vs nurture...

So I think the advantages to someone like you and me could be:
  • Get to collect badges
  • Get apples
  • Get pie since every 20 apples gets you pie
  • Earn the possible admiration of your peers
  • Impress an Otis who knows you don't want land but sends you a gift for your awesomeness
  • Gives you the credibility to talk to others about PEP
  • Makes it easier to get PEPpers to come to your place to work on their BBs and leave hugels behind

  • None of these may be enticing to you but I figured I'd take a shot at coming up with some possibilities.
     
    paul wheaton
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    Mike Haasl wrote:True Ellendra, I'm in a similar spot.  I have a chunk of land and I don't plan to move.  But I have a weird psychological thing where getting badges is fun.  Maybe being a boy scout has something to do with it.  Hmm, nature vs nurture...

    So I think the advantages to someone like you and me could be:

  • Get to collect badges
  • Get apples
  • Get pie since every 20 apples gets you pie
  • Earn the possible admiration of your peers
  • Impress an Otis who knows you don't want land but sends you a gift for your awesomeness
  • Gives you the credibility to talk to others about PEP
  • Makes it easier to get PEPpers to come to your place to work on their BBs and leave hugels behind

  • None of these may be enticing to you but I figured I'd take a shot at coming up with some possibilities.



    I wonder if we should make an FAQ.  And one of the questions should be "I have land and am doing just fine, why should I try to get BBs?"

    My favorite answer from your list is

    Makes it easier to get PEPpers to come to your place to work on their BBs and leave hugels behind



    I think the next item in the FAQ should be "why should I host a BB20 event?  What's in it for me?"

    And then a list of the artifacts that might be left behind:

      - hugelkulturs, all planted and mulched

      - three log benches

      - firewood is put up, complete with firewood racks

      - get a pile of shakes for future use

      - some stuff gets painted with natural paint

      - some chop and drop mulching gets done

      - knives and tools are sharpened

      - some retaining walls are built

      - trails are maintained/improved

      - bicycles are mended

      - potholes are filled

      - a few meals are cooked

      - some ferments are started

      - some birdhouses are built and put up

      - get a deck built

      - lots of tree seeds are planted

      - art installations

      - wild food is brought in

      - seed balls/bombs are prepped



     
    pollinator
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    As I've been slowly recovering from oral surgery and a bone graft I've been sitting on the couch trying to brainstorm ways to overcome barriers to complete some of my BBs. I don't know why I didn't think of it earlier, but my family ranch has masses of available land that no one would care if I did projects on. My grandpa was a definite renaissance man, and left behind a huge collection of tools at the ranch. There's even a backhoe/bulldozer! Between that, his gardening tools, and the barn full of woodworking equipment I could probably head out there for a weekend and knock out a whole slew of BBs! My last real barrier to getting them completed is a big one; I have no idea how to use the large majority of those tools. Were my grandpa still living, I'd ask him to show me the ropes, but when he passed he took his knowledge with him. None of my family really knows how to use the tools either, and I want to make sure that 1. I can be safe and 2. I don't ruin or break the tools. Do you have some go-to resources for safely operating large machinery? Between the two of us my husband and I can manage the woodworking tools (I used a lot of them under careful supervision of my grandfather when I was younger), but we're both a bit leery of jumping on the backhoe without doing some research beforehand.
    It would definitely benefit the whole family if we could get it figured out; there's a lot of work that needs to be done at the ranch that my grandpa used to do with the backhoe and dozer.
     
    Ash Jackson
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    Carolyne Castner wrote:...Do you have some go-to resources for safely operating large machinery? ...


    Each visit to Wheaton Labs, I learn better how to use large machinery just as you describe.

    I would bet someone with the PEP Earthworks Sand Badge could be a resource, and keen to share their skills and knowledge, as well.
     
    Carolyne Castner
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    Ash Jackson wrote:

    Carolyne Castner wrote:...Do you have some go-to resources for safely operating large machinery? ...


    Each visit to Wheaton Labs, I learn better how to use large machinery just as you describe.

    I would bet someone with the PEP Earthworks Sand Badge could be a resource, and keen to share their skills and knowledge, as well.



    That’s a good idea, thank you!
     
    gardener
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    I came here because of the thread title. To offer a naive take.

    I visit this site every day.  Its cool.  I love it.  

    The recent threads is always choked with posts that start with PEP.   I don't know what that is.

    Out of curiosity I clicked on a few.  Now I have a vague sense that I earn something if I do the things.  The things are either stuff I've already done, in which case I can't get the credit, or I have no real desire to do.

    Now I just kinda surf past the PEP threads.  

    None of this is criticism.  I'm just telling you my PEP experience, in hope that it helps.
     
    Ash Jackson
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    Hi Rob, thanks for the feedback. Here's a thread that explains PEP more comprehensively: https://permies.com/wiki/skip-pep-bb


    For folks who already do the activities in PEP, some of them are saying it is a useful tool to evaluate potential helpers or farmhands on their land. Perhaps that is what it will be for you, too.
     
    Mike Haasl
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    Rob Lineberger wrote:The things are either stuff I've already done, in which case I can't get the credit

     
    If you have the required pictures from when you did do it, you can get the credit.  Or the next time you do it, you can just submit then then.  No harm in having done it before.

    I was sad when I realized I swapped out a faucet at our church before there was a BB for it.  I thought it would be a long time before I changed another faucet out.  Yesterday it happened and now I have that BB done.
     
    Inge Leonora-den Ouden
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    Rob Lineberger wrote:... Now I have a vague sense that I earn something if I do the things.  The things are either stuff I've already done, in which case I can't get the credit, or I have no real desire to do.
    ...  


    Hi Rob. Hoping you will still visit this thread! You can still get the BBs (even Badges) for the things you've already done. You only have to do them again, make photos and post those in the Badge thread.
    That's what I do now and it's fun! I even start doing things I didn't do before ...
     
    Rob Lineberger
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    Inge Leonora-den Ouden wrote:

    Hi Rob. Hoping you will still visit this thread! You can still get the BBs (even Badges) for the things you've already done. You only have to do them again, make photos and post those in the Badge thread.
    That's what I do now and it's fun! I even start doing things I didn't do before ...



    Hello, Inge! Yes I am happy to visit this thread.  :)  It's an interesting idea and I'm intrigued. I'll do as you suggest and try some of the BBs.  Hope you find some great inspiration in your activities!
     
    pollinator
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    I just completed my first two badge bits this week, so let me think about what GOT me doing those badge bits.

    I'm a bit like Mike. There's just something about badges that really appeals to me. It's not that I want to prove it to a bunch of strangers, it's that I want something that is a motivation machine. Badges push me to reach further. For now, I'm happy to knock off fairly simple things, but I know I'll reach the point where I need to learn something new and get out of my comfort zone.

    Examples: I love herbs. Herbal medicine. Foraging. But, I've only just begun my journey into that world. What the badge will do for me is "force" me to actually get out there and harvest that mullein and do something with it (tincture?). As opposed to just admiring it in my yard.

    Or, more extreme--I'm fascinated by skills that seem so practical like plumbing, electrical work, metal work. I've done none of this. But I have a feeling if I find the easiest BBs in each of these, figure out how to do it... then it will propel me with forward momentum into doing more of the BBs in those areas, and then at some point I will actually have a bit of a skill set in things that I believe are so very valuable.

    In other words, for me the badges provide something like a map of skills to follow, plus the inherent motivation to travel that path.

    It took me a couple months on this site to figure things out. My first week, I had NO idea what these PEP and SKIP things were. To be honest, although I think I have a solid understanding of PEP, I still am not totally clear if PEP and SKIP are the same, or subsets of one another, or a Venn diagram together. I didn't understand all the acronyms, like BBs. I think what would help me the most would be a visual representation of this stuff... what everything stands for, how it fits together, paths you can travel, and where they lead. An infographic would suit this, in my opinion. Kind of like the Wheaton Eco Scale infographic (which is stunning, BTW!)

    I also wanted to say: Ash verified completion of my first BB. He did it in such a friendly, welcoming, and encouraging way, that it definitely made me want to continue. I think this is small, but really important!

    Hope this feedback helps!
     
    master gardener
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    While I fully support the concept, on a personal level very little could get me interested in a  badge.  That said, there is still room Toget my interest. For example, I have a pathetic level of expertise with gasoline engines.  I can see where a trouble shooting post might grab my interest.
     
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