"What would get YOU doing a PEP / SKIP BB?"

I'm new to Permies, and like the idea with PEP/SKIP BB's

When I was in the navy, as a Weapons Tech and we had On the Job Training Program and Checklists to do.

It's a way to take lots of knowledge and info and put it into practice and get experience.

I'm looking at this as a similar opportunity to learn a vast amount of info and knowledge, and a way to learn and practice in obtaining the experience needed for the Homesteading lifestyle :)

Thanks for the post.

I like to get the Ebook and read more about the program and to see what steps are needed to get started :)

early draft of the pep ebook

https://permies.com/t/125541/PEP-eBook-early-draft

Wow, I'm so thrilled to have discovered this thread.  I haven't read it all so probably what I have is redundant, but the biggest motivator for me is the "Otis's" out there, and actually meeting/hearing them wanting their land to continue to be used as farmland.  The idea that that resource could continue to be sell stewarded.  I don't know if there are more posts from farmers, I saw one but if I saw a bunch from them in my region (New England) that would probably get me more motivated.

I also would want to have more PEX articulated, which might be something the "Otis's"/farmers would need to state.  They might not have to do the whole process of finding a youtube video fo how to do X, just say "I need people to be able to do X for basic consideration" etc.

Skandi, I hope they can change the inheritance laws in Denmark to make it easier for farmland to be continued!  I think a bill for that could get a lot of support these days, Denmark is pretty "green" yes?

What would be really great is to have more badge-awarders.  I think if you get the badges then you can approve others to get badges, or at least it's a prerequisite.  (I need more clarity here myself on this).  If you already have land you can help other people who don't have land! you can help farmers who need someone to succeed them.  You can also lend some parts of your land to someone to make use of for doing badges possibly (let's say if you need a live tree felled some time???). I know it's tedious documenting a skill but it can be of service to others and the planet.

If you knew some "Otis's" and some industrious young people who couldn't afford college, would that motivate you to become a badge certifier?

Joshua Myrvaagnes wrote:What would be really great is to have more badge-awarders.  I think if you get the badges then you can approve others to get badges, or at least it's a prerequisite.  (I need more clarity here myself on this).

For any aspect that you have a Sand (or higher) badge in, you can certify any BB you've done in that aspect.

For example, you have the Sand badge in Gardening. This means you can certify any Gardening BB that you've already completed. Looking at your Merit Badge Profile, that means you can submissions in:

Build a Hugelkultur
Chop and Drop
Ruth Stout Composting

But, you can't certify any other BBs.

But, say for example, you went and earned the Wood BB grow perennials from seed, you'd be able to certify anyone else who submits that BB, even though you haven't earned the Wood badge.

Does that help clarify things?

It would be awesome to see a thread for BBs like the
Reverse Kickstarter -- a place to pledge or Pay It Forward to encourage people to complete badges and BBs. For example, for the next few who complete a specific sand badge, maybe someone could pledge something that would help with the next badge, like the seeds needed for the gardening badges or the Flax to Linen ebook for completing the textile sand badge. Or a handmade gift or monetary pledge for the first person to complete a BB that you just want to see done by someone.

It's obvious that SO much work has gone into PEP, and I'd love to see it used for more than SKIP. I'm using it as a framework for building skills that could be useful on my own property. I was at a loss of where to start, and PEP has taken out some of the guesswork, especially with the video and article links within the BBs and people posting their own completions.

On my phone, I can't tell if the thread actually linked at the beginning, so just in case, here's the Reverse Kickstarter thread that I referenced: https://permies.com/wiki/90168/permaculture-projects/Biological-Reverse-Kickstarter

Nikki Roche wrote:It would be awesome to see a thread for BBs like the
Reverse Kickstarter -- a place to pledge or Pay It Forward to encourage people to complete badges and BBs. For example, for the next few who complete a sand badge, maybe someone could pledge something that would help with the next badge, like the seeds needed for the gardening badges or the Flax to Linen ebook for completing the textile sand badge. Or a handmade gift or monetary pledge for the first person to complete a BB that you just want to see done by someone.

It's obvious that SO much work has gone into PEP, and I'd love to see it used for more than SKIP. I'm using it as a framework for building skills that could be useful on my own property. I was at a loss of where to start, and PEP has taken out some of the guesswork, especially with the video and article links within the BBs and people posting their own completions.

On my phone, I can't tell if the thread actually linked at the beginning, so just in case, here's the Reverse Kickstarter thread that I referenced: https://permies.com/wiki/90168/permaculture-projects/Biological-Reverse-Kickstarter

Hi Nikki. Do you mean this for everyone doing BBs? Or only for boots (and others at WL) doing BBs?
If you mean for everyone that will be quite difficult. We live in many different places / countries. Sending gifts to anyone who completes a certain Badge will become expensive (shipping)!

Inge Leonora-den Ouden wrote:
Hi Nikki. Do you mean this for everyone doing BBs? Or only for boots (and others at WL) doing BBs?
If you mean for everyone that will be quite difficult. We live in many different places / countries. Sending gifts to anyone who completes a certain Badge will become expensive (shipping)!

I was attracted by the offer of Sepp Holzer grains for achieving BB20 so I was thinking everyone, but that's a good point about shipping and regulations. I guess participants would have to specify what country they were willing to ship to or stick with digital items and PayPal/Venmo pledges.

Yeah, I could imagine someone saying they would pay $XX to the first person who "sews a vegan winter coat and proves it can handle the cold" or $YY to the first three people who earn the "build a rocket mass heater" BB.

Nikki Roche wrote:I was attracted by the offer of Sepp Holzer grains for achieving BB20 so I was thinking everyone, but that's a good point about shipping and regulations. I guess participants would have to specify what country they were willing to ship to or stick with digital items and PayPal/Venmo pledges.

I thought the possibility of getting the grains was pretty neat as well. Unfortunately, when I did my BB20, I realised that they could not be imported into NZ without a significant cost in paperwork (genetic tests, etc). That being said, I'd be happy to provide some interesting seeds to local folks reaching BB milestones. Woad seeds? European fibre flax seeds?

Mike Haasl wrote:Yeah, I could imagine someone saying they would pay $XX to the first person who "sews a vegan winter coat and proves it can handle the cold" or $YY to the first three people who earn the "build a rocket mass heater" BB.

I think perhaps other rewards could be as or more motivating--rare plant cultivars, books on different relevant topics, specialty tools, blueprints, handcrafted items. Perhaps even one-on-one tutoring or an internship on a property.

I fell asleep thinking about this. I currently don't have the mental energy to spearhead it and don't even know if Paul would approve the idea. I'd love to see incentives for different badges or badge bits, such as "this reward for the first person to complete this part" or "this reward for the next xx people who complete this badge." There could be a thread set up similar to the Boots thread of pledges/rewards with info of who to message or how to go about receiving it once you qualify.

Rewards (is there a better word for it?) would ideally be relevant to the badge and hopefully helpful toward achieving the next level. An online herbal course after receiving the straw badge in natural medicine. Plans or blueprints from Paul (or others) at different levels of natural building, rocket mass heaters, etc. Relevant ebooks, digital templates, video courses. What else would be helpful yet not cost prohibitive?

How about a mechanism for self-awarding badges on an honor system? Different ones of course, so certified badges would still have higher value for those who care.

I've been very inspired by many of the badges to try new things (that's how I got hooked on cast iron ), but I don't feel the need for documentation or external validation.

I generally keep it in my head (At my stage of life, I don't need to prove anything to anyone but myself), but if  you wanted to have an idea of how many people are impacted by the system but don't take the time to get certified, I'd be willing to check a box saying "yup, permies made me try this".

And even if you don't implement honor badges, the fact that people do not participate visibly in the program doesn't mean it doesn't have significant impact.

Lean into PEX, not PEP. Three BB that I consider finished weren't approved and it took the wind out of my sails. I'm still experimenting with things, but documenting it for this site isn't a priority. I thought it would be a fun thing to do with my kids, but to be honest the juice isn't worth the squeeze as it stands. Get me excited with community feeling, not gurus and gatekeepers.

I think there should be a link to a relevant SKIP forum thread in each daily-ish. My issue is that I forget about them, even when I'm doing stuff that would qualify and so I don't document them. I usually read the daily-ish so that would get it towards the top of my brain. Even if it is a specific skill I'm not interested in, it gets me curious and thinking about what other ones I could be doing.

I really don't live in a suitable region for 95% of these things. That's what's stopped me. I'm the type that will often refuse to drive 5 minutes for something, do without it, and wait until I have a bunch of things to take care of and do it all at once. I would never be willing to drive hours all the time to complete some of these things.

Pollute now so that I can pollute less in the future? I don't know. I hate car-centric society.

I think the thing that would actually make me want to do more of what I can do is knowing that someone, somewhere ACTUALLY inherited property from someone by doing all this.

Otherwise, it feels fruitless. Like the Publisher's Clearing House Sweepstakes. Do you actually know someone who has won that thing or is it all staged?

I'd love to see a thread or area where PEPpers at a certain level (BB60? PEP1?) can post wishlists, alongside their country or general location. I imagine there are many Otises who can't will their land away but do need to downsize their belongings on their homesteads.

Kinda like this?   List of SKIPpers and PEPpers

I had an idea and didn't know where to post it.  Maybe this is the place.  I just watched a few hundred youtube shorts last night.  The format seems about perfect for BBs.  Do a BB, film it, edit it to be a good short, use it for your BB submission and also put it out for the world to see.  Maybe with a hashtag or something.  Then as you do your PEP journey, other people who watch shorts might start following you and you get rich or famous or something.  Not sure if that's a viable way to get rich or famous but you never know....

Mike Haasl wrote:Kinda like this?   List of SKIPpers and PEPpers

I suppose that's a start. I was thinking less about introductions and "who am I" type posts and more about which tools, equipment, or resources are on your wishlist for your homestead. Beekeeping supplies, tractor attachments, greenhouse materials, sheep shearing supplies, a loom, etc.

MOVE THE GARDENING BADGE TO THE END OF THE LIST!
Or add more stuff to the gardening badge so it's comparable to all the others.

The 'Gardening' badge set is the /smallest/ and /most inaccessible/ list, compared to all the other badge lists.
When I was going through PEP and SKIP, I read diligently through the first part in order, and got to the list of topics & task lists. I clicked 'gardening' and... only 6 of the ENTIRE task list are feasible for the small plot of land I have. Three of my six require multi-year tracking. (Calories and landrace seed generations)

Since the VERY FIRST task list appeared to be designed with the assumption that participants already had MANY acres of land to plant seeds on, and access to power equipment or large teams of helpers to build 7' high hugel mounds, I presumed the rest of the list would be likewise laughably inaccessible to a single individual and left the thread without reading further.

8 months of ignoring & skipping over all mention of BBs, SKIP and PEP,  I just now read through the rest of the list and found WAY more approachable tasks in other lists.
Tool care has a huge and beautifully accessible list for someone without a ton of property. That 'Sand' badge has super-simple and easy stuff like 'Sharpen a Knife' and 'Sharpen a Shovel'
Homesteading has 'install a smoke detector'
Textiles has a bunch of stuff that is done in the home & nearly anyone could learn to do in under 30 minutes.
Heck, ALL the other lists have a bunch of tasks to choose from, which are easy & accessible for any type of property owner.

Gardening's sand badge STARTS with a 7' high, 6' long hugelculture. That's terrifying. That's not a beginner step!
Why is the Gardening task list so outrageous in comparison to anything else?


--
Ideas for Gardening tasks which are less ridiculous and fulfill the same proof of learning shown in other badges:

Planting Perennials for Permaculture
In this task, the user is asked to select at minimum 5 different species of perennial plants which are NATIVE to their area, and which serve some purpose in their garden.
They must sow at least 20 of each type of seed, and provide pictures at germination, 3 months and 6 months, with long-term survivorship from each type of plant, and also describe what plants they chose & what purpose they hope they will serve in the garden. (Pollinator plants, wildlife food or habitat, edible crop, etc.)
At the 3-month photo, the plants should be in the ground. It is up to the user's discretion whether to direct-sow or begin nursery pots indoors.


Name That Weed
Choose a heavily 'weedy' patch of garden, at least 10 square feet. Your goal is to fully weed this garden so your desirable plants have space to grow.
You will be showing before and after pictures, along with a picture of all the weeds you pulled, spread out on a tarp or other high-contrast surface so the plants variety can be seen. With these pictures, you will include a list of scientific & common names of all the plants you pulled as 'weeds', and their possible positive permaculture uses.

Many Types of Composting
Build at least 4 types of composting systems. Take pictures of their creation, use, and finished compost being pulled from each system.
1) Direct Composting - Ruth stout - Bury under mulch, direct in ground.
2) Vermiculture - Build a layered worm bin
3) Cold Composting - Lasagna layers & leave it
4) Hot Composting- Demonstrate with a thermometer that the pile got hot
5) Tumbler Composting - A drum, silo, or other container which can be periodically turned/twisted to mix materials inside
6) Liquid Composting - Fermenting plant biomass in a large container of water, producing sludge and nutrient tea.
7) EMO composting - Bokashi Bin

Cutting Cultivation
Take cuttings of (at least) 5 different species of plants. Show 1-month and 3-month update pictures of these at least 10 plants started from cuttings successfully growing in the ground.

Buried for later
Dig a hole that is at least 3ft long and 2ft wide, and bury wood & green plant biomass in it. Cover the hole. You have the tiniest of mounds, for later.
It's not a massive hugel mound, but it starts them thinking about the idea that wood can act as a sponge.

Insect Kingdom
Take pictures of 25 different species of insects. Provide their name, what they eat, what eats them, and what other role they fill in the local ecosystem.
(A higher level of Insect Kingdom for a higher-level badge could be 'photograph and ID 100 different species')

Tiniest Food Forest
You'll need: 100 square feet of space to turn into a mini food 'forest'
Start with a fruit tree. Grow plants to fit into all 7 layers. Provide a list of what plants you're using, what layer they fit into, and how you plan to utilize them in this system.

Uprooted
Successfully transplant 10 mature plants from their original established spot, to somewhere at least 10 feet away. Show before and after pics, and a 1-month update to show it survived the move. Plants must go from ground to ground - not starting in a pot.
A higher badge level for Uprooted could be 'Successfully move a tree sapling at least 5 feet in height'

Extra Edibles
The plants we grow in a traditional vegetable garden are often grown for 1 thing, but actually have several different edible parts!
Identify 3 edible plant parts you previously did not consider adding to your diet, on a plant normally grown for food.
Prepare these & try them. How did you like it?
(Examples: Bean vines & greens, Squash flower, Pumpkin greens, grape leaves, watermelon rinds, etc.)

From the brink of death
Go to a garden center or nursery. Buy 3 of the most sickly, dying, pathetic-looking plants you can find.
Rehabilitate them to the point where they are in the ground & thriving.
Show 'point of purchase', 1-month, and 3-month updates.


Plague Doctor
Photograph & identify 5 types of plant disease. Explain what causes it, and what can be done to fix it.
Successfully 'cure' three plants with unique diseases.

Noticed Nibbles
Time to become a PPI - Private PLANT investigator.
Photograph 5 examples of insect-damaged plants, and find the bug that did it.  

Soil samples
Figure out your soil composition using a jar & water.  Make a list of 10 plants that would do well in that kind of soil composition. Make a list of 10 plants who would not do well at all.

-

surely, SURELY, there are more topics to learn about gardening than 'hugelculture, plant fruit trees, mulch, and save seeds' <-- because that sums up about 90% of the  'gardening' tasks.

Especially for people who are still learning, giving them tasks that they can LEARN from will only help. Stuff like:

- improving biodiversity on purpose
- identifying plants & insects
- different propagation methods
- how to move mature plants without killing them
- different ways to utilize biomass
- Expand their idea of what 'edible' means, before diving into foraging.
- What it means to build a food forest. What 'forest layers' even are!
- How to notice & identify & treat disease outbreak in plants.
- How to notice & identify pest damage

and so on.

Thanks Toko, I'm not sure if we can move it at this point, the order was set before I got involved.  But I like the suggestion.  As for the contents of the badge I suspect this is one of those things where since it's PEP - Permaculture Experience according to Paul, we're working with his idea of what permaculture gardening is.  And what he wants to encourage.  I've heard he's a big fan of hugels.  And yes they're scary big if you don't have heavy equipment.  

I like the idea of moving gardening a bit further down the list but I'm not sure if that's possible.  Thanks for the suggestion!

Toko Aakster wrote:MOVE THE GARDENING BADGE TO THE END OF THE LIST!
Or add more stuff to the gardening badge so it's comparable to all the others.

Gardening's sand badge STARTS with a 7' high, 6' long hugelculture. That's terrifying. That's not a beginner step!
snip

Planting Perennials for Permaculture
In this task, the user is asked to select at minimum 5 different species of perennial plants which are NATIVE to their area, and which serve some purpose in their garden.
They must sow at least 20 of each type of seed, and provide pictures at germination, 3 months and 6 months, with long-term survivorship from each type of plant, and also describe what plants they chose & what purpose they hope they will serve in the garden. (Pollinator plants, wildlife food or habitat, edible crop, etc.)
At the 3-month photo, the plants should be in the ground. It is up to the user's discretion whether to direct-sow or begin nursery pots indoors.


Name That Weed
Choose a heavily 'weedy' patch of garden, at least 10 square feet. Your goal is to fully weed this garden so your desirable plants have space to grow.
You will be showing before and after pictures, along with a picture of all the weeds you pulled, spread out on a tarp or other high-contrast surface so the plants variety can be seen. With these pictures, you will include a list of scientific & common names of all the plants you pulled as 'weeds', and their possible positive permaculture uses.

Many Types of Composting
Build at least 4 types of composting systems. Take pictures of their creation, use, and finished compost being pulled from each system.
1) Direct Composting - Ruth stout - Bury under mulch, direct in ground.
2) Vermiculture - Build a layered worm bin
3) Cold Composting - Lasagna layers & leave it
4) Hot Composting- Demonstrate with a thermometer that the pile got hot
5) Tumbler Composting - A drum, silo, or other container which can be periodically turned/twisted to mix materials inside
6) Liquid Composting - Fermenting plant biomass in a large container of water, producing sludge and nutrient tea.
7) EMO composting - Bokashi Bin

Cutting Cultivation
Take cuttings of (at least) 5 different species of plants. Show 1-month and 3-month update pictures of these at least 10 plants started from cuttings successfully growing in the ground.

Buried for later
Dig a hole that is at least 3ft long and 2ft wide, and bury wood & green plant biomass in it. Cover the hole. You have the tiniest of mounds, for later.
It's not a massive hugel mound, but it starts them thinking about the idea that wood can act as a sponge.

Insect Kingdom
Take pictures of 25 different species of insects. Provide their name, what they eat, what eats them, and what other role they fill in the local ecosystem.
(A higher level of Insect Kingdom for a higher-level badge could be 'photograph and ID 100 different species')

Tiniest Food Forest
You'll need: 100 square feet of space to turn into a mini food 'forest'
Start with a fruit tree. Grow plants to fit into all 7 layers. Provide a list of what plants you're using, what layer they fit into, and how you plan to utilize them in this system.

Uprooted
Successfully transplant 10 mature plants from their original established spot, to somewhere at least 10 feet away. Show before and after pics, and a 1-month update to show it survived the move. Plants must go from ground to ground - not starting in a pot.
A higher badge level for Uprooted could be 'Successfully move a tree sapling at least 5 feet in height'

Extra Edibles
The plants we grow in a traditional vegetable garden are often grown for 1 thing, but actually have several different edible parts!
Identify 3 edible plant parts you previously did not consider adding to your diet, on a plant normally grown for food.
Prepare these & try them. How did you like it?
(Examples: Bean vines & greens, Squash flower, Pumpkin greens, grape leaves, watermelon rinds, etc.)

From the brink of death
Go to a garden center or nursery. Buyor Rescue 3 of the most sickly, dying, pathetic-looking plants you can find.
Rehabilitate them to the point where they are in the ground & thriving.
Show 'point of purchase', 1-month, and 3-month updates.

Plague Doctor
Photograph & identify 5 types of plant disease. Explain what causes it, and what can be done to fix it.
Successfully 'cure' three plants with unique diseases.

Noticed Nibbles
Time to become a PPI - Private PLANT investigator.
Photograph 5 examples of insect-damaged plants, and find the bug that did it.  

I really like these baby step ideas. One way to get PEP PEX more popular is to have more folk earn badges. What is the smallest step forward anyone could take to learn a new skill towards the big goal of promoting permaculture.  Sand BB should be flexible enough for most anyone to work towards, even those with physical limitations or no land.  

Then there is a huge jump between badge levels where the beginning levels should be closer together and Iron should be a big jump.  So if Sand BB says make X (any way you can) then Straw BB could be make X (with hand tools).  Iron BB might be make X (with hand tools that you made).  Each is a step towards self sufficiency.

I also would like more choices within a BB. Plant 50 seeds of locust is absolutely not for my area. So invasive here! But I would gladly find a space to plant 50 Garry Oaks which are native but Threatened here.

Off to read the SKIP book that arrived today.  
G'night.

To get into this program I'm going to need to retire. Well, that and finish building my house. It's a great program and I hope to some day get into it but not today. There just aren't enough hours (and too many responsibilities) right now.

Carmen Rose wrote:To get into this program I'm going to need to retire. Well, that and finish building my house. It's a great program and I hope to some day get into it but not today. There just aren't enough hours (and too many responsibilities) right now.

If you're busying doing projects for your house, I'd suggest taking pictures of before, during, and after on your projects. A lot of them might fall into SKIP badges. And, even if they don't, you could probably post them in the Oddball badge page. It's full of projects people did that didn't fit into any specific "badge bit" activity.

Fixing a leaky faucet? There's a badge bit for that! https://permies.com/wiki/111644/plumbing
Cleaning a shower head? There's a badge bit for that! https://permies.com/wiki/112762/plumbing
Replacing a dishwasher? There's a badge bit for that! https://permies.com/wiki/144359/Replace-dishwasher-plumbing
Extending a water line? There's a badge bit for that! https://permies.com/wiki/144135/Extend-water-supply-piping-location

(There's a bunch more like that in the Plumbing badge)

Repairing a light switch? There's a badge bit for that! https://permies.com/wiki/110297/PEP-BB-electricity-sand-tiny
Installing a light fixture? There's a badge bit for that! https://permies.com/wiki/112699/PEP-BB-electricity-sand-tiny
Installing a doorbell system? There's a badge bit for that! https://permies.com/wiki/138323/pep-electricity/doorbell
Installing 20 feet of wire? There's a badge bit for that! https://permies.com/wiki/138614/Install-feet-wire-unfinished-space

(There's a bunch more like that in the Electricity badge)

Taking the pictures now, means that you won't have to find some random person's house to rewire or install a toilet into. You've already done it, and have the proof!

And, even if you never post the pictures, those pictures might help you in the long run, especially for things like wiring and plumbing that are hiding behind walls. My dad has always taken before, during, and after pictures when he does wiring and other project work. This allows him to remember exactly what he did, and to also easily find where the wires/pipes/etc are without having to tear apart the whole wall.

It's fun looking through these lists, because there's a lot in there that I probably could have gotten credit for!

If your home building is going anything like the remodel of my garage, there's likely a lot of badges your knocking out right now without even knowing. (It makes me wish I was doing more of the remodeling of my garage, and not my dad, so I could get a bunch more badge bits under my belt!)

Personally I love a good physical reward! It would be really fun to have little sew on patches or buttons showing everything we've accomplished like having one physical badge for every level of badge bit.

Maybe I can add to the discussion now that I've actually started doing my first BBs (and realize there's a huge amount of low-hanging fruits that I can document very quickly because they're all things I already do in my daily life).

The one thing that got me above the "I'm never going to get any badge, so why bother" were:

- the air badges. That looks cool and I can probably get a lot of these, because most themes have at least one attainable BB

- the BBX badges, because then it makes sense to do 20 random things in different themes. Whereas with the sand/straw/wood system, if I'm 90% there and stuck on that last unattainable task, it's very depressing

- the natural medicine and textiles sand badges, because those were all things that would require me to learn some new skills or stretch existing ones, but are realistic to obtain

That said, I still find it very depressing when all but one of the BBs required for a sand BB feel entirely impossible or even illegal in my juridiction. I can totally see myself getting to BB100 with only one or two sand badges.

It feels a bit like I'm getting my arm twisted to attend a bootcamp event ("just come to the bootcamp and that BB will take you two hours, and we'll provide you with all you need. But if you try to do it at home, you'll need tens of thousands of dollars in equipment and dozens of hours just to build the prerequisites")