"What would get YOU doing a PEP / SKIP BB?"

I have really enjoyed the PEP projects that everyone has been doing.

It is like reading any of the threads here at permies.  I learn so much from what others have done.

I like experimenting with new activities as they keep me busy.

These are the ones that I have enjoyed the most:

https://permies.com/wiki/40/102544/pep-food-prep-preservation/PEP-Badge-Food-Prep-Preservation
https://permies.com/wiki/108662/pep-natural-medicine/PEP-Badge-Natural-Medicine

Here are some examples of ones that have been completed (I picked one from each of those threads to show why I enjoy them):

This one about baking bread: https://permies.com/wiki/102815/pep-food-prep-preservation/PEP-BB-food-sand-bread#849357






This one about making peppermint teas: https://permies.com/wiki/119139/pep-natural-medicine/PEP-BB-medicine-sand-peppermintinfusion#1007132






I have not completed any projects to earn badges though I am enjoying the efforts of others.  I feel some of the projects to earn badges are rather easy to do,

When I see a badge in a profile, I look at that person's threads to see what they have done.

I especially like the ones, Nicole and R Ranson have done.

The PEP: Oddball thread has been fun, too:   https://permies.com/wiki/pep-badge-oddball

Most of what I thought is already in the Big Brainstorming List, so this is kind of agreeing.  Part of the issue I see is Permies Forums is a BIG place, and it can be hard to find stuff if you're new to it especially.  
Taking SKIP as an example, when you land on the landing page, unless someone's recently posted, you can't see SKIP.  It's in the list of buttons on the left, for sure.  You also have to know that you're looking for SKIP - which to me suggests a big steel box for disposing of rubbish :)

That list of buttons is good, but you click on (let's say) Kitchen and it loads the Kitcheny page - then the sub forums within kitchen are away off to the right.  For me, it'd be more intuitive if the list of buttons expanded like a menu, preferably on mouse-over, so you could mouse-over Kitchen and a new list of kitchen forums pops up alongside the main list, you could then track across into that and click on a sub forum right away.  That's how quite a lot of stuff works these days.

Might be that the SKIP/PEP stuff could use its own web page, linked form the Permies home page; or maybe just the badge stuff; that could also tie in with a phone app if anyone will write the app.  Unfortunately, that's not in my skill set.

When I first read through the badges, I focused on the things I thought I could never do and discounted those badges entirely.  "I don't have an excavator so I'm not building a hugel", "I don't have a siege ladder", "I don't have a willow feeder".

BUT, I started to think about which ones I could do and realized I could do most of the badges even in Wisconsin without a tractor.  I did go to Wheaton Labs and knock out a bunch that I couldn't've done at home.  But I probably could have done some in my area if I tried hard enough.  And some of the badges got massaged to be more flexible so they're now more achievable (metalworking, dimensional lumber, cooking).

Some of the badges do still have some repetition in them (charge one battery, charge 12 batteries, etc) but for some of those badges we're reworking them.  Behind the scenes we're finishing up the Community Badge and it will be awesome.  Much like awesomeness that is the Animal Care badge (if I do say so myself).  Our priority is getting the incomplete badges complete, but then I hope we'll have time to go adjust some of the older/repetitive badges to be even more awesome.  

For me, breaking it down into smaller steps.

Yes, it's already broken down, but it's also very busy.  Having different forums for each kind of badge helps a lot.  

I'm wondering if there is some way of gamifying it.  

OK after a bit more reading around I have a better idea about what the badges are and how they work.

One thing struck me - I happened to look at the badges for tools.  Starts off with the sand badge, which is composed of basic tool maintenance badge bits:  sharpen a knife, sharpen a hatchet, sharpen a chainsaw, etc.  

This got me to thinking, and tied in with the people who say "but I can't do X because" - now, some of those people are just not looking at creatively enough; they could find a way to do things if they put their mind to it - let's say, cleaning a freezer: perhaps they don't have a freezer but their elderly neighbor does, and they could see if that neighbor needed help cleaning it - some of these issues can be solved with a bit more thought.

But there's a risk of insuperable problems:  Let's say the chainsaw - someone not only doesn't have a chainsaw, they also don't know anyone who does because nobody in their area needs one, so they can't sharpen a chainsaw, even if they are willing to learn how.
Those people are going to look at the "tools" sand badge and right away they're going to see a problem, and it's a problem they have no idea how to solve.  

That could put them off the entire thing; yet they may well have a shed full of other tools.  

So my suggestion is this:  I read in the what is PEP/PEX thread, PEP 1 you require any 16 sand badges - which is cool.  You don't have to get all the badges in a given category, you can mix and match with what you can do.  

How about if the individual badges worked the same?  Taking the tools one again, there could be, oh I dunno, maybe 20 tools-based badge bits and to get the badge you have to complete any 16.  Set it so most things have to be done, so it's not a shortcut, but have a little wiggle room.  

'course, I'm late to this party so might be it's already been discussed, if so I apologise for flogging a dead horse.

Most of what I would have shared has already been said by Amy, Eric, and Michael.

Love the concept of SKIP and PEP, but find a lot of it very rigid and a bit out of reach (for example a couple of the plants on the medicinal PEP page that are suggested for use are actually listed as "invasive species" where I live.) A lot of the other species won't grow in my zone, same with the foraging BBs and gardening BBs. Maybe a resource list of possible alternative species? (like the pine wood vs. chestnut that someone mentioned earlier). Or possibly a form that could be submitted to request a substitution on a material or tool.

A lot of the BBs feel completely out of reach for me; living in a suburban neighborhood with an HOA. I don't have access to "earthworks" tools and machinery and it doesn't really seem like something pertinent to my current lifestyle. Lots of the BBs seem interesting, but very inconvenient or expensive to actually do.

That being said, I can see how useful the skills are to a more sustainable agro setup. I do want to eventually inherit the family land in the Hill Country and know that some of these skills are things that could be extremely useful to that end. But the steps provided to learn them in the BBs feel unatainable which leaves me feeling frustrated and slightly trapped in my current surroundings.

Austin. Good to see you writing here. I have thought much same.

I'm super old fashioned and I love physical. I used to read the thick boy scout manual for fun when I was young. I read it repeatedly and learned so much from it. This program reminds me of that and gets me so enthused.

I think it would be awesome if after they're all finalized, the PEP/X were collated in a book that started with a list of the badges and what was required for completing each level. Later in the book could include pictures of how to do various things and tiny URLs to supplemental videos on permies for people who need more detailed instruction and / or the more complicated things. Also links where people need to post to certify.

This would solve the problems I have with data cap, my desire for something physical to hold, cross off as I complete items, remind me of what else I need to complete, and would also be something I could take with me into the field, in a way that online support, apps and the pdf BB list don't. I would absolutely support a kickstarter for this.

That's my daydream when I think about this program. Last year, I actually started working on creating one for myself because I wanted it enough for that. But they were still in enough flux that everything was outdated quickly and then I moved to my place, lost data, and got busy with addressing current needs. So I know it's a lot of work and the flux issue could still be true. Plus, I might be in a small minority of people who don't love online resources.

Carolyne Castner wrote:
A lot of the BBs feel completely out of reach for me; living in a suburban neighborhood with an HOA. I don't have access to "earthworks" tools and machinery and it doesn't really seem like something pertinent to my current lifestyle. Lots of the BBs seem interesting, but very inconvenient or expensive to actually do.

That being said, I can see how useful the skills are to a more sustainable agro setup. I do want to eventually inherit the family land in the Hill Country and know that some of these skills are things that could be extremely useful to that end. But the steps provided to learn them in the BBs feel unatainable which leaves me feeling frustrated and slightly trapped in my current surroundings.

If you're living in a more urban area, there's also PEA as I understand it, which is slanted more to that?

You can have the opposite problem: We don't have a bathroom, so "clean the bathroom" is kinda tricky

Here's the link to the Permaculture Experience for Apartments/Anywhere -dwellers (PEA) forum - PEA

R Ranson said "I'm wondering if there is some way of gamifying it.

That is what I have been wondering, also.

This may be kind of tricky though what about doing something like a promotion with something to win?  If it works then maybe pick a different BB once a month?

Is there a way to make it easier to get started?  Something like a wiki for easy badge bits?

Just an idea: perhaps people could set the challenge for themselves, document it, and then a group of more experienced members and/or Staff would decide which badge should be awarded for that?
This way, it would be more fun and suitable for the person, and still informative for everyone else. And it would be different each time.
For example, there is a "Tour de Fleece" challenge in the online yarn spinners/knitters community. They decide what they want to do during the Tour de France race, and then complete the task.
How about Tour de Permies? ;)

r ranson wrote:For me, breaking it down into smaller steps.

Yes, it's already broken down, but it's also very busy.  Having different forums for each kind of badge helps a lot.  

I'm wondering if there is some way of gamifying it.  

An app? I have no experience here but people seem to love apps. Look at Fitbit badges for instance. They will add extra walks to make the goal.

Trace Oswald wrote:I wrote a long reply to this and lost it.  Argh.  I'll shorten it and just give an example.  First, let me point out that I just pick and choose among the different areas and find something I want to or am going to do anyway, and then I take a few pictures.  I'm not sure I'll ever complete any one area though.  The gardening one is an example.  Chop and drop, I use anyway.  I can do that one in less than an hour, and it's something I do on a pretty continual basis, so I just took some pictures and added them to the thread.  Contrast with the hugel bit.  I don't know where to get Sepp grain, and I'm not interested in growing grain anyway, so that one doesn't interest me.  Additionally, my understanding was that the bits should take an hour or two (going by memory, that may be wrong).  I think someone asked Paul about the time frame for building a hugel in that time and his response was something like "use an excavator".  It feels to me like that takes it out of contention for about 99% of the people that would read it.  Regardless, it's Paul's program and he can structure it to fall in line with his likes/dislikes.  There are still lots of other BBs that I will probably document.  I just can't see finishing many of the areas because my needs and likes are so different.

This is my exact answer. I wanted to try the Hügelkultur bit. Was immediately turned off by the required height. I’m one person with a bad back and no heavy equipment. I would likely benefit just as much from a 3’ or 4’ bed half the required length. Then when I decided I might be able to make one that big by hand next spring/fall, I saw the requirement for Sepp Rye. Then had to dig through several threads trying to find it for sale to no avail. I also have > 300 varieties of seed on-hand. I don’t need to buy more, I need to use what I have and what we will eat.

For me so much of permaculture is reducing the  waste and making use of the resources you have, it doesn’t necessarily blend well with such a strict regimen. I decided it just wasn’t a good fit for me and when I see one I’m interested in, I just add it to my own project goals.

Flora Eerschay wrote:Just an idea: perhaps people could set the challenge for themselves, document it, and then a group of more experienced members and/or Staff would decide which badge should be awarded for that?
This way, it would be more fun and suitable for the person, and still informative for everyone else. And it would be different each time.
For example, there is a "Tour de Fleece" challenge in the online yarn spinners/knitters community. They decide what they want to do during the Tour de France race, and then complete the task.
How about Tour de Permies? ;)

I love this idea. The only drawback is the time/labor of those giving bits/badges. But this is a program I would do that would be broadly applicable to people.

I don't know about an ap for me.  I don't have a gadget that takes aps.  But I know other people love them.

More like a competition.  Or many very small competitions.  Maybe if I offered a couple of copies of my book Homegrown Linen which is about transforming flaxseed into fibre, as a random prize to anyone who completes a textile badge in August?  Or a discount on my Etsy store?  

It might be neat to have an event where we could team up with a business that relates to the pep badge and they offer prizes.  I'm trying to remember how many different areas we can earn badges in again.

EDIT: 22 badges in PEP.  About 10 in PEA?

So brainstorming here.  

Maybe start with the themes that have both PEP and PEA elements to include the most people.  Choose one or two themes a month.  Then a random prize to anyone who achieves a badge in that area in either PEP or PEA.  The prize sponsor gets lots of promotion.  Maybe they also offer a random prize to anyone who completed that badge in the last 12 months in excess to the two prizes.  It would want to be a much bigger prize than the book promotions since they get a whole month worth of promotion.  So basically they would get promoted to a highly targeted audience in return for the prizes.  The better the prizes, the more we promote them.

Michael Cox wrote:The turn off for me, on multiple BBS, has been the focus on the very narrow set of conditions that hold under Paul’s circumstances.

Yes, that makes it hard.   And it makes it of value.  

Of course, an alternative would be:

   - go to harvard, fork over money, live there, and do what those people say to do
   - afterwards, get a job to pay all that money back
   - pay all the bills racked up while paying that money back
   - save up to buy your retirement package
   - buy the land, the house, the truck, the tractor and have some buffer in the bank

or:

   - get PEP4 certified, mostly on your own, find a way to do it
   - get the land, the house, the truck, the tractor and a pile of coin from Otis

Life is about choices.  If this is hard, then don't do it.  

Of course, Ash is asking about how to get people involved, and you are saying "the whole thing is too hard".   Fair.   I do think that this is why PEA still needs to be developed - it will utterly wipe away the whole "I can't do that at my house/region/whatever."

Maybe we need PEP0 certification?    We pick out 20 BBs that anybody can do anywhere and if people do those, they get that special marker?

Maybe we can line up a couple dozen packets of sepp holzer grain here.  With maybe 42 seeds in each packet.   And then the first 24 people that get PEP0 certified, we will mail them a packet.

??

What if we have some people volunteer to guide a person into PEP0 certification?  At least for the first couple dozen people that do it?

Paul, I am a fan of the PEP0 certifications.  It is the easiest on ramp to the PEP curriculum and significantly lowers barriers to entry.  Also, having a mentor to help guide through the initial stages.

Eric

What would be a mentor program that would work well for you?

I bit the bullet today and spent half an hour poking through the BBs, PEP, PEA, etc. It was literally just a question of taking the time to look carefully.

Ash, you've done an amazing job collating and linking all this stuff. It is clearly laid out and makes sense. Also, looking more closely, there are a lot of options, at least at the lower levels, so things that don't exist where I live or which are bigger than my scale permits are not necessarily obligatory, at least not at earlier levels.

Maybe once the focus on the kickstarter is done, there could be a "PEP-along" where a cohort (mob) could form to do some BBs, like a BB challenge. I note the kickstarter challenge thing has gotten some attention. People like competitions and challenges, and it is convenient for asking questions (i'm thinking of when new staff come onboard, several of us are asking questions at the same time, it's encouraging), especially when maybe it is the start that is most challenging.
From there maybe there could maybe even be discussions among this cohort about specific adaptations for urban, for tropical (ie what people see as hurdles).

I could also see someone recording a simple screenshot video how-to for extreme beginners (which probably already exists, I didn't do a deep dive today-- if so, i'm sorry).

Suppose we defined PEP0 to be 20 specific BBs.  Things that anybody, anywhere could do.   What would be those 20 BBs?

Paul, Everyone

So I think a mentor would have 2 main goals.  The first would simply be a person to walk through the technical Permies end of getting a BB approved.

The second and less important role would be to offer help—encouragement really—on how to do the project.  I don’t want this to mean that one would have to be an expert in plumbing (as an example) in order to help someone with plumbing.  Technical advice is nice, but the social encouragement I think will both attract more people, especially those on the fence, and generally grease the wheels to get the project going.

As an example, my school developed a program where an experienced teacher helped a new teacher learn the ropes.  One year I was assigned a new guidance counselor.  I am a history and psychology teacher and I still don’t get what guidance does.  But it didn’t matter.  Just having the social contact and someone to bounce ideas around was the real benefit.

Similarly, having someone to talk an idea through and help with the Permies technical end could make a real difference.  And I think that general encouragement is what many (most?) of us as staff do anyways.

My 2 cents,

Eric

paul wheaton wrote:Maybe we can line up a couple dozen packets of sepp holzer grain here.  With maybe 42 seeds in each packet.   And then the first 24 people that get PEP0 certified, we will mail them a packet.

??

That would be immensely helpful. Requiring someone to use something that is fairly difficult to find/obtain presents an unnecessary barrier, as the point of that unit is not to learn to obtain rare seeds. Also (if there isn’t one) perhaps the best way to keep that seed available is to offer a badge for seed saving/distribution: someone has to grow out their own Sepp grain, save seed, and distribute to at least 3 other permies or something of that sort.

paul wheaton wrote:

Michael Cox wrote:The turn off for me, on multiple BBS, has been the focus on the very narrow set of conditions that hold under Paul’s circumstances.

Yes, that makes it hard.   And it makes it of value.  

Of course, an alternative would be:

   - go to harvard, fork over money, live there, and do what those people say to do
   - afterwards, get a job to pay all that money back
   - pay all the bills racked up while paying that money back
   - save up to buy your retirement package
   - buy the land, the house, the truck, the tractor and have some buffer in the bank

or:

   - get PEP4 certified, mostly on your own, find a way to do it
   - get the land, the house, the truck, the tractor and a pile of coin from Otis

Life is about choices.  If this is hard, then don't do it.  

Of course, Ash is asking about how to get people involved, and you are saying "the whole thing is too hard".   Fair.   I do think that this is why PEA still needs to be developed - it will utterly wipe away the whole "I can't do that at my house/region/whatever."

I respect that it’s your program and of course your choice to design the requirements. It’s simply a balance between a few people completing your ideal hugelmound or a few dozen completing a less perfect one. In essence the stringency of the requirements determines the prestige of the badge by limiting the number of people who can accomplish it. So what is the goal? A state university approach where accessible education reaches 60,000 students annually, or a Harvard education that reaches 22,000? Neither is wrong. Would you rather inspire lots of ok-ish hugelmounds, or a few perfect ones? Are in interested in more people participating if it means lowering expectations?


Another idea that hasn’t been brought up is further gamification with a points-based system. Perhaps each badge has a 1-3 point range. You can build a 1-point hugelmound or a 2 or 3 point hugel mound. All will get you a pass on that unit, but when you go for certification you need a minimum number of total points in addition to finishing the required units. That way there is more wiggle room for those who simply can’t accomplish the perfect version of something.

What if we have a series of badges called BB5, BB10 and BB20?  The idea is that you complete ANY 5 BBs and you get the BB5 badge.  And so on for BB10 and BB20?

paul wheaton wrote:Suppose we defined PEP0 to be 20 specific BBs.  Things that anybody, anywhere could do.   What would be those 20 BBs?

The twenty Ash picked for the PEP challenge would be a good list to start with: Weekly PEP sprint

I'm not sure if you can do all of them anywhere but it's a great smattering.

I also like the BB5, BB10, BB20 idea as well.

Paul - I understand what you are saying about "hard" being valuable. I'm an educator myself, so dealing with hard material is my day job. But I think there is an important distinction between something being hard because the skills learned are demanding, and something being hard because the resources required are unobtainable. I've looked at a number of BBs and thought "well I can't do that here... but I could do this other thing that is very similar, and demonstrates similar skills". But that don't count for PEP.

You want PEP to be  "according to Paul" which makes sense, but even low level items require people to use resources that are only found in your particular circumstances. I could see a stay of a couple of months with you being something that many people could aspire to once in their lifetimes. And while there people could round off a final few BBs that might be unobtainable in their home circumstances. That feels like something someone who has already finished PEP 1, 2 and 3, and is working on PEP 4 might want to do. Rounding off a programme of development with an intensive period of "Paulness".

But from the outside looking in, even PEP1 is unattainable in my circumstances. And I have more scope than many people to get involved.

I have 3 acres of "garden", 6 acres of silvo-pasture grazing, and 12 acres of woodland. It feels like I should be able plough through lots and lots of BBs, but my region is not yours.

If I were designing a programme like this, I would probably try to ensure that PEX1 and PEX2 were totally generic - achievable by any person, in any bioregion given time and space to work. And then when that set of core skills has been demonstrated people can shop around for an appropriate PE.. 3, PE.. 4 that suits their bioregion, from a permaculture mentor that they trust. That also gives other permaculture  instructors a common framework to build from. The design their own PE...3, PE..4 ... knowing that everyone who gets to that stage has already got a common core of PEX1 and 2 under their belts.

Eg

PEX 1 - generic, not dependent on bioregion, or availability of particular plants, resources etc..
PEX 2 - generic, higher skills level and time commitment, not requirement for particular resources

PEP 3 // PEM 3 // PET 3 - higher skill level and time commitment, targeted at specific bioregions, particular resources etc...
PEP 4 // PEM 4 // PET 4 - higher skill level and commitment again, likely to be completed with a residential stay with the relevant mentor to complete some specific challenges relevant to that bioregion, or particular resources.

Completing the generic PEX1 and PEX2 becomes something worthwhile and achievable for everyone, without huge outlay to cope with unobtainable resources.

For the PEX1/PEX2 you might get particular mentors designing their own alternate BB for some particular cases.

I'm thinking here about some of the woodworking ones. Your current BB focuses on the work needed in your particular type of woodland. A generic one would be less specific, but someone could choose to do with the PEP version or the generic PEX version, and have them freely interchangeable to reach the overall PEX1/PEX2 levels. I might choose some PEP BB for wildcrafting, some PEM BB for woodwork, and some generic PEX BB for toolcare.

The point being that scarcity of resources shouldn't be the barrier to participation.

Michael - so what do you think of the BB5, BB10 and BB20 idea, where you can pick up badges for *any* combination of badge bits?

Michael I completely agree with you.  I was thinking of PEP0 as being a super easy step to get someone on the road to a sand level BB.

I am also an educator and hard is the name of my game.  At my school no one takes psychology thinking it will be a breeze—I teach it hard enough that students go on to the local university and take intro to psychology and the college level class is the easy one.  Hard is good, but it does not get people in the door.

But as I imagine it, PEP0 is the on-ramp to getting the first sand badge.

Really great points,

Eric

I had a quick look back, to give a concrete example.

To preface this. I own woodland. I can do most of the things in the woodland badges. But then I come up against this. This one item prevents me from getting the sand badge, because it cannot be completed where I am, and even if it could it would not serve a useful purpose for me.

Woodland: prep 10 junkpoles
Woodland: Repair 24ft or build 12ft of junkpole fence

"Overall, make sure that the fence is chicken and deer tight and ready to stand for years of solid service!"

This particular BB requires: woodland that needs thinning, so that you have junk poles. There is blurb about selecting them, and how they need to be 8ft long. When building a junkpole fence you are aiming for deer and chicken proof. Again, makes sense in Paul's location. He has deer. I don't have deer. Why am I building a fence 8ft tall? Woods in my bioregion are predominantly hardwoods, and the vast majority of conifer plantations are owned by the forestry commission. There is no equivalent wood where I could go to even practice cutting the poles.

HOWEVER

Our forests have been managed as mixed chestnut and hazel coppice since roman times. Woven hazel fencing is a traditional local craft, and skilled fencers make lightweight stockproof panels that use no fasteners. They are woven, much like basket weaving. I have the resources, tools and skills to do this type of fencing, and it is far more useful for my circumstances.


But despite it being an equivalent skillset, being unable to complete the junkpole fence disqualifies me from taking part in the woodland BBs. I can't even get the first level of badge. And I own 12 acres of my own woodland. I desperately want to do that particular badge, but I want to do it in a way that is useful for me. Not in a way that demonstrates a bunch of skills at I don't need here, and will never use again.

The BB5, BB10 etc... don't really help. Yes I can potentially tick them off, but I can't work through some of the badges that I consider to be most important or useful to me, because I know I cannot complete them.

---

The two pieces above, on junkpole fencing, are in essence about making a fence from found, harvested, collected, or grown materials that serves a useful purpose in your landscape. That end result can be achieved in many, many ways. Some of them would be right at the top end of "good permaculture". Here are a few I can think of:

Woven Hazel

Hedgelaying - to be properly stock proof

Drystone walling - where collecting stones and clearing land for agriculture combine

Junkpole fence

Deadhedge

A more generic version of this could be "Using found or harvested materials, build 12ft of fence to protect an area of crops". The person completing it can explain their choice, and what they are protecting against. If you need to protect an area against cows, you need a very different fence compared to someone protecting against chickens, and against deer.

I'm not sure that I understand the BB5, BB10, BB20 badge idea.
Are those BBs also counting towards other badges? for example: the woodworking sand badge?
Or is it more of a "Wild Card" badge that you can cash-in on the only 3 textile BBs you ever intend to do?
Or... is it a sort of running tally of BBs completed, regardless of BADGES achieved? and sort of layered on top of the other badges? So, maybe by the time you reach PEP2 you have also reached BB250, and by PEP3 you're at BB400? (numbers not necessarily to scale.)

I like the idea of some sort of "carrot system" where maybe the reward for building a PEP-worthy hugelculture is a packet of Sepp Holzer grains to finish it off right, or it's other BB or Badge appropriate rewards (books, DVDs/downloads, tools, materials, or gift certificates/discounts for any of these) maybe you "unlock" some rewards halfway though completing a badge, and those rewards could help you to complete that badge!

S Greyzoll's point system is interesting, especially as a way to incorporate PEXs with PEP.
Michael Cox and I have both mentioned: there's an underlying skill applied to complete a BB, and there's an end result.
In my tool handle example, fixing the tool is the same end result, using many of the same skills for each method possible. (shop-bought handle vs. home-made handle vs. PEP self-harvested handmade handle)
If those methods got 1, 2, & 3 points, do it the PEP way and get 3, do some other PEX method and get 1 or 2. Maybe you could repeat a PEX BB to earn up to 3 points (to reach what the PEP BB would be)

Another facet of a point system might be that if, for example, a badge requires 100 points, there could be a pool of 150 PEP BBs (or more including PEX BBs) to do to earn that badge.
There might be 50 points of mandatory PEP BBs that are core concepts that really make PEP PEP, and 50 points that could be earned from the remaining PEP or PEX BBs.
This could allow for personal choice/opportunity/location/climate differences.

Kenneth Elwell wrote:I'm not sure that I understand the BB5, BB10, BB20 badge idea.
Are those BBs also counting towards other badges? for example: the woodworking sand badge?
...
Or... is it a sort of running tally of BBs completed, regardless of BADGES achieved? and sort of layered on top of the other badges? So, maybe by the time you reach PEP2 you have also reached BB250, and by PEP3 you're at BB400? (numbers not necessarily to scale.)

This, yes!  The two things will run side by side. So if you're like me and feel like a PEP1 is out of reach at the moment for whatever reason, you can still collect a BB5 or BB10 badge while you're working up.

In fact, I'm getting ready to start my first BB right now. Couldn't resist the give urine to growies one.  

We're planning a double act.  

He's just finishing his morning coffee. Which might be an extra large one, just to make sure...

The suggestions so far:

  - introduce BB5, BB10 and BB20 (we're working on this now)

  - have volunteer mentors

  - make the badge requirements more inclusive (we need to finish version 0.9 before we can move on to version 2.0)

  - badge of the month

  - sepp holzer seeds for getting BB20 - first 24 people (US only)


What did I leave out?

What about "air badge"?   A rather white badge for each aspect showing that you are actively working on that badge - that you have completed at least one BB?

How about a free week long event at my place for people that have completed some minimum requirement like 60 BBs and maybe five badges?   The idea being that these people will be able to reach PEP1 within that week.  ??

Michael Cox wrote:

Woven Hazel

Hedgelaying - to be properly stock proof

Drystone walling - where collecting stones and clearing land for agriculture combine

Junkpole fence

Deadhedge

A more generic version of this could be "Using found or harvested materials, build 12ft of fence to protect an area of crops". The person completing it can explain their choice, and what they are protecting against. If you need to protect an area against cows, you need a very different fence compared to someone protecting against chickens, and against deer.

I think the idea of a "junkpole" fence is to use waste material to make a fence, so A deadhedge would be very similar, Hazel hurdles are actually quite difficult to make well and hazel needs management to make the sticks in the first place. Hedgelaying or drystone walling are also skilled work so should probably by a bb in their own right.


I very much like the idea of BB10 BB120 etc. I could certainly see myself trying to get BB10 for a nice shiny badge or maybe BB50 for some pie?  and Paul the idea of a week at yours once a certain threshold had been reached would help many in the US complete things. As for the grains could one not just name another grain that would be suitable for Europe/Asia/Africa etc

Maybe it would help to make a list of the 20 easiest BBs?  

paul wheaton wrote:Maybe it would help to make a list of the 20 easiest BBs?  

#626: "What are YOUR 20 easiest BB's?" https://permies.com/t/143378/skills-inherit-property/easiest-BB

I'd love to hear what different people's 20 easiest BB's are...