The Garden Master Course - Full Video - Kickstarter Prep

The animatic is ready for feedback!

What’s the difference between an animatic and the final animation inside the KickStarter video you ask? Well, animation is like really hard work :) so we always do a draft version i.e. animatic, to decide everything and once this is locked the fun part begins. Here is an example from Pixar’s Toy Story:



Here is how our main characters will look like once the transition from animatic to final animation is done:



We need this video to be three minutes and thirty seconds long so one minute and twenty five seconds must be removed and go bloop. What would you trim out?

What visual would you add?

Any creative ideas to make this video better?

Oh and the music as of now is a proxy and Im working on some better options.

Thanks a lot in advance! Every bit of feedback is greatly appreciated.

1:48 interviews have some fluff.  And the Helen classroom shots jump between angles a little too often.

Give the people a title?  Amir - software engineer (?), Alan - what is his title?

As for cuts, try:
2:01-2:05 remove "um but yeah"  (4 seconds)
2:18-2:20 remove "you listen to Helen" (2 seconds)

3:21-3:35 remove "that is very exciting the last 15 years since I was actually teaching master gardening the last . . . pull into this garden master class. (14 seconds)

4:38-4:43 remove "and that's really what I care about now.  And I'm really good at that. (5 seconds)

If you like those cuts, it should eliminate about 25 seconds and in my opinion make things move with a much better rhythm during the intervew & classroom section.

If you are going to show video of Helen, I don't need as much of her saying "I'm really good and knowledgeable", but would welcome a couple of minutes of showing me a good example of what she taught -- an example of insight is more powerful than saying "I'm insightful".

How is this for a question for the FAQ: How does the stuff we learn from this move differ from a certified master garden course?

Suggestions for a better phrasing of the question are welcomed...

I can obtain permissions for some music that I have produced.  A lot of it is in the realm of folk, irish, and world music, but some of it has some classical leanings - although not the orchestral stuff you're using here.  Let me know if you wanna hear a couple samples and I'll dig them up.

Beau Davidson wrote:I can obtain permissions for some music that I have produced.  A lot of it is in the realm of folk, irish, and world music, but some of it has some classical leanings - although not the orchestral stuff you're using here.  Let me know if you wanna hear a couple samples and I'll dig them up.

Sure!! Yes please. The more options we have the better!

Cool, I'll need to dust off an old laptop for some of them, but I have easy access to these three:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B005026R28/ref=dm_ws_tlw_trk10
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B005026QKG/ref=dm_ws_tlw_trk6
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B005026Q2E/ref=dm_ws_tlw_trk2

I can upload to soundcloud if you wanna hear a full track.

Awesome, thanks! Maybe we can try different edits with different soundtrack pieces and make another poll for peeps to tell us which one they like the most.

If I'm being ruthless trying to get that 85 seconds back, I think that both Robin and Amir's testimonials could be cut.  To me, they don't add enough to earn their timeline real estate.  Amir's particularly discusses the in-person aspects of the course more than the videos.

I think Alan's is more relavant and holds more weight - but the staging is kinda weird and the audio is super noisy.  I can try to denoise it if you send me the audio file.

We have an undercooked version of the kickstarter page up and running.  Anyone wanna see it?  

I suggest removing the voiceover section "I'm really glad we had the forethought to record it.  A resident editor whipped up a sample of what a full-length edit could be.  Wow!"

Does not need to be stated explicitly.

I did not read through all the previous edit suggestions, so there may be some redundant suggestions.

starting at 1:48ish  Robin's first clip is nice, but probably not necessary.  
Amir's clip, cuttin gout the ums/yeas

During helens spiel (approx 2:43) could be edited down a bit.  It was honestly hard for me to follow where she was going with it the first time.  It felt like there are main points that could be highlighted and maybe some extraneous wording that could be cut.  

@ 3:16 - when helen stops talking could be cut

at 4:01ish we could cut "by observing nature"

and then cut where helen says even better for me because...thats what I care about now...

What would you trim out?

I'd cut to having only three interview clips one(1) really good bit from each of the three interviewees Alan, Amir and Robin.

What visual would you add?

Maybe when paul talks have his animation talking. Most or every time you hear his voice.

Any creative ideas to make this video better?

Maybe have Helens animation talking...not sure if that's too much but I think it'll be cool to have her talking and her animation

Oh and the music as of now is a proxy and Im working on some better options.

I like the elegance in the music, matches Helen's aesthetic...although I've never met her so idk for sure  just an assumption from what was said about her

Andrés Bernal wrote:The animatic is ready for feedback!
Here is how our main characters will look like once the transition from animatic to final animation is done:

Forgot the most important feedback.  The new character set is amazing.

Beau Davidson wrote:Cool, I'll need to dust off an old laptop for some of them, but I have easy access to these three:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B005026R28/ref=dm_ws_tlw_trk10
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B005026QKG/ref=dm_ws_tlw_trk6
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B005026Q2E/ref=dm_ws_tlw_trk2

I can upload to soundcloud if you wanna hear a full track.

I like the 3rd one
It's peppy

Have we thought about animating the whole thing? Probably too much work but I think would be cool!

Anyone else?  No?  Just me?

Cool.

Beau Davidson wrote:Anyone else?  No?  Just me?

Cool.

Oh wow, I had completely forgotten about that movie.  Who knows, maybe Paul is hiding wings under those overalls.

I'm guessing we need a dozen more off-the-cuff title and blurb ideas to get down to a few good, general options.

Sat with it a while this morning.  What about something like:  

Title:
Grow Like Nature with Helen Atthowe's Garden Master Course
(58 characters)

Blurb:  
Garden with Nature and Intention: A world-class master garderner course with a permaculture, food forest, and market garden focus.
(130 characters)

Blurb:

In just a few weeks, you could be harvesting your own homegrown veggies. Learn everything you need to know; from Historical Agriculture to Plant physiology in our Garden Master Course video with Helen Atthowe.

We have a kickstarter preview page cobbled together.  Please make sure to keep comments about the page on this thread.

CLICK HERE to see the preview and please click on "notify me on launch"

paul wheaton wrote:CLICK HERE to see the preview and please click on "notify me on launch"

It's working!  I can see that 2 people are now following this kickstarter!

paul wheaton wrote:

paul wheaton wrote:CLICK HERE to see the preview and please click on "notify me on launch"

It's working!  I can see that 2 people are now following this kickstarter!

The SKIP book kickstarter has 822 people click on "notify me on launch" before we got the kickstarter going

https://permies.com/wiki/80/158099/prep-SKIP-book-kickstarter#1244463

Andrés Bernal wrote:This is an illustration of Helen throwing seeds in a complex and varied food crop including a big integrated title. Click thumbs up on this post if you think this image is the best!

At the end of the animation where Helen is planting seeds have it morph in this image so you can have 2 thumbnails the closeup of the growies with the title as click bait  and the cartoon Helen with the title once you watch the video.

When the number of people who ask to be notified about our kickstarter campaign goes up, Kickstarter does a magic trick and shows our project to many, many, many more people.

It's currently the best way to help the campaign (and these gardening methods!) reach the masses - click it!

I am seriously thinking of droppping the "CANDY" level on this kickstarter.  Anybody have feedback on that?

paul wheaton wrote:I am seriously thinking of droppping the "CANDY" level on this kickstarter.  Anybody have feedback on that?

Can you explain why? I'm assuming it's a lesson you think you've learned from the previous campaigns. I don't see any reason not to do so, but I'm not generally motivated by the bits and bobs that accompany your Kickstarter campaigns, I just want the edited video.

Struggling to come up with stuff for that level.  

Plus, the idea is "stepping stones" but I don't have any other stones for right there.  So the effect is lost anyway.

Alan’s comments are almost all redundant and the comment about “that is what I’m focused on now and I’m really good at it is somehow off putting so I definitely agree, it should also be cut.

Andrés Bernal wrote:This image shows us one of Helen’s garden with a big integrated title. Click thumbs up on this post if you think this image is the best!

The image on this is quite nice, my choice. However, the darker background of the second image allows the text to stand out more. An alternative, bolder font might also be considered.

Please, please cut out the footage of the classroom showing a bunch of bored looking people. Your killing yourself with that.

Beau Davidson wrote:Anyone else?  No?  Just me?

Cool.

Haha! The Young Paul reminded me of the Pecos Bill cartoon, voiced by Robin Williams.



It's not a perfect match, but that's what came first to mind for me!

Andrés Bernal wrote:
Here is how our main characters will look like once the transition from animatic to final animation is done:

Does Helen wear overalls? I don't think Fukuoka ever did. I think it might be more visually understandable to have Helen and Fukuoka in other clothes that match what they normally wear. This would make it clear that Young Paul and Old Paul are the same person...and Fukuoka and Helen aren't just older or female versions of Paul. I think it would simplify and make the video more instantly understandable.

I think it might also tie Helen's cartoon appearance to her video'd appearance better if she was wearing the same style and similar colors in both (you might want to tweek the exact hues to match the rest of the animated color scheme, of course!).

Putting Helen and Fukuoka in overalls kind of makes it look like they emulate Paul...when Paul is the one who learnt from them. I know permies is all about overalls. I think it's totally cool! But, I think the people encountering this video might not know that, and the overalls just make the characters look the same, rather than individuals.

I really like how, in the SKIP team drawing, you captured everyone's appearance with their clothing and hair styles. I'd love to see that with Helen and Fukuoka, too!

Oh, I love pruning!

- Paul introduction is excessively lengthy. You don't need 1'30'' to tell us how inspirational this course was for you, we are alredy grasping what it can be from the rest of the video. I think you can invert the order: how did the Duke of permaculture become so obsessed with it? It was Helen's Gardener Master Course, which, unlike other GMC, included organic techniques that would later inspire the permaculture movement. Now Helen's GMC is all organic: No pesticides, no herbicides, no big ag, inspired by master Fukuoka (insert small story here), and the most modern organic techniques (Helen saying this in her course). This can be said and done in 30''.

- There's too much redundancy. Alan is repeating that Helen is both hands on and a researcher, something that Paul already stated. I'd keep Alan saying how she can feed so many people and still do her research, and skip the rest. Maybe you can show Scientist Helen animation while Alan is speaking.

- We don't need to be explained how the video editing is done. Just show us a small piece of unedited video, with the capture "unedited", and a small piece of the final result "edited". This is the hard work and here is where the donor can help. This can be done in 20''.

- Students interview can be more direct. Let's us hear what they had to say, not the trouble they had trying to find the words (cut all the ooh aah and irrelevant stuff).

paul wheaton wrote:

paul wheaton wrote:CLICK HERE to see the preview and please click on "notify me on launch"

It's working!  I can see that 2 people are now following this kickstarter!

I am now following the kick starter.

Abraham Palma wrote:
- Paul introduction is excessively lengthy. You don't need 1'30'' to tell us how inspirational this course was for you, we are alredy grasping what it can be from the rest of the video. I think you can invert the order: how did the Duke of permaculture become so obsessed with it? It was Helen's Gardener Master Course, which, unlike other GMC, included organic techniques that would later inspire the permaculture movement. Now Helen's GMC is all organic: No pesticides, no herbicides, no big ag, inspired by master Fukuoka (insert small story here), and the most modern organic techniques (Helen saying this in her course). This can be said and done in 30''.

I agree with changing the video to start with how The duke of permaculture became obsessed. I also feel a little more back ground on master Fukuoka would be good. Just think about someone watching this that have no idea who Fukuoka was and the story of Helen and Paul.

WOW! This is so cool! As a fellow animator and video editor who is also a permie was very excited to see this in my inbox Because I'm a little late to the conversation I don't know if my 2 cents are still helpful at this point, but if so, here are my thoughts (and apologies if any of these have already been stated, I haven't read through all the previous comments):

- The video can be cut MUCH shorter than 3.5 mins, more like 60-90 seconds at the absolute maximum. You want to grab people and keep them engaged, and its hard to do that with a 3.5 minute video.
- I'd cut all the interviews. Not sure if this is controversial (and sorry if so!) but these can easily be cut out and replaced with static images somewhere else on the Kickstarter page (outside of the video) as a still image with a quote overlay, or just the quote itself. I was engaged with the video until the interviews started - I think the switch from animation to video was jarring, and the animation is what is really going to keep people watching - the interviews aren't as compelling for me as a viewer. I also don't know who any of the people are (maybe I should?) but I imagine many viewers will also be in the same boat.
- At 1:22 where the new/improved Master Gardener Program being is compared to the previous course, instead of having text on the screen think about showing visuals instead (images of pesticides, fungicides, etc. that are replaced with images that represent permaculture, hugelkultur, happy animals / plants, etc.) Visuals are more compelling than text and will resonate with folks more on an emotional level.
- From here (after cutting the interviews), I'd jump in to showing "teasers" or "snippets" of the actual course itself -  people working in a garden, hands in the dirt, sitting together with notebooks, building things...
- Then, end on something compelling for the viewer, that keeps them excited / engaged. The current narration at the end should be the finale / climax and it falls somewhat flat currently. I'd consider changing the narration here from "Are there enough people wanting video of the whole class to pay for the editing?" to something more like "With your help we can turn this program into a video course that can be viewed any time, anywhere, on your schedule. Let's do this, together." Something to get buy-in from the viewers, to feel like they are involved in the creation of the thing. As a viewer/potential customer I don't really care how the editing gets paid for, but I do care about being involved in the production of a really cool product that's going to make this really essential and valuable information accessible to more people.

Since I'm here I'll also add that I'm an instructional designer with a background in video editing and animation (I create online educational courses that utilize a lot of writing, video, and interaction - here's my portfolio: https://taraswenson.github.io/). If you're in need of another editor / animator, or someone to help build video courses, I'm more than interested and please reach out to me at taradswenson@gmail.com This is really cool and I'm excited to see how it develops!

@Tara Swenson
Recently arrived and already offering your help! Here's an apple. Enjoy it. :D

About the guy who wants the course in DVD.
In 360p, it says that 1 hour of mp4 video occupies 300MB. If that's true, then we can fit 15 hours of video in a single DVD by using this lower quality. If the course is 90 hours, then it fits in 6 DVDs. That's reasonable. The complete Lords of the Rings trilogy in DVD quality is also 6 DVD, just saying...

I'd rather have it in low quality but able to play it without internet than having it in HD streaming if I am going to use it as a text book.

Abraham Palma wrote:About the guy who wants the course in DVD.
In 360p, it says that 1 hour of mp4 video occupies 300MB. If that's true, then we can fit 15 hours of video in a single DVD by using this lower quality. If the course is 90 hours, then it fits in 6 DVDs. That's reasonable. The complete Lords of the Rings trilogy in DVD quality is also 6 DVD, just saying...

I'd rather have it in low quality but able to play it without internet than having it in HD streaming if I am going to use it as a text book.

That's a data dvd, not a dvd that's playable in most dvd players.  Those only hold about 2 hours.

If it's data files you want, I think Paul explored thumb drives a while back.  If I recall, interest was very low and cost was very high.

YAY!! Helen is amazing! The first comment by Helen is not necessary. Her 2nd and 3rd comments say enough  in less time. Alan's 2nd comment isn't necessary either.

It WAS awesome to have Alan in class! I do hope this Kickstart comes through. This student/teacher group was particularly fun/attentive/they loved my cooking, so I'm pretty partial to them, haha! 😆