What's wrong with Missouri?

Or is it something else? We keep looking for a person, couple or family to join us here on our land -- initially to help out around the place in exchange for a place to camp or set up a tiny house or RV, then eventually, make it permanent if we all get along and our goals/ideas mesh well. But ... no one seems to want to come down here, despite the fact that we absolutely welcome anyone -- regardless of color, creed, sexual orientation, age, family status, etc.. Is it the humid summers, the ticks & chiggers, the fact that this is a deep red state (!!!), the culture (or lack thereof ) or what? I'd really like to know.

Just for your information, we have 75 acres next door to Mark Twain National Forest, near Hercules Glade Wilderness (so lots of room to roam, forage, etc.) We are near Branson, MO if you like that sort of thing, and Bull Shoals Lake as well. We don't have our community goals set in stone other than to have like-minded people around us. People who care about the planet, love animals (really, really LOVE animals and agree to help out with those we have while you are here) and want to work toward a simpler, more sustainable lifestyle. We don't eat meat (haven't for over 30 years) so would require you to be vegans or vegetarians if interested in a long-term commitment to the place. For a shorter stay (seasonal or a few months work exchange), it wouldn't matter so long as you agree not to hunt or raise-to-kill animals on our property and do not bring or keep firearms with you. No smokers, please. I am allergic to cigarette smoke. Other than that, our only really strict requirement is that you do not do drugs or engage in illegal activity of any kind (to be blunt, you will be packing the same hour if we discover any of that here. Missouri has very strict laws about seizing property if drugs are involved -- even if the property owner knows nothing about it and does not condone it). Alcohol in moderation is fine.

Surely there is someone out there who would like to live in the country and work toward a sustainable lifestyle far from the hustle and bustle of the city? Talk to me. I can answer any questions you like and give more detailed information if you are interested. As for long-term stuff -- If we seem compatible, I'm sure we can work something out that will be a winner for all involved.

Haha...try Arkansas.  We had similar thoughts to yours several years ago.

In the end we decided to sell our forty acres and move to a near by small rural town.

I think your offer is quite fair and generous...just give it some time.

Seems like there are many here who are looking for this sort of opportunity...maybe not as seriously as they sound?  maybe some is location, some uncertainty about jumping into a new community?  

I don't know... I've always loved new opportunities and began my adventure here at 22yrs with a backpack and a couple garden tools and enough naivety to take a lot of risks....it worked for me

I think many feel like they need to have a certain level of 'preparedness' before heading out to the woods....and that's what you are offering.  

To me, it sounds like a perfect opportunity.

How are you looking for people?  Is this your first thread about this on permies?  People might want to know more about you and your place, your goals, vision for the community, etc.  Just over all a whole lot more information, including photos of your place and what you're creating there.

"We don't eat meat (haven't for over 30 years) so would require you to be vegans or vegetarians if interested in a long-term commitment to the place. For a shorter stay (seasonal or a few months work exchange), it wouldn't matter so long as you agree not to hunt or raise-to-kill animals on our property and do not bring or keep firearms with you. No smokers, please. I am allergic to cigarette smoke. Other than that, our only really strict requirement is that you do not do drugs or engage in illegal activity of any kind (to be blunt, you will be packing the same hour if we discover any of that here."

There you go. People who come to MO are typically looking for the freedom to do as they please, including exercising their 2A rights, hunting, fishing, etc. It's one of the best things about the state. The land in MO is so reasonably priced, particularly relative to most of the rest of the country, that with restrictions like yours, you'll find most people would rather just buy their own.

Carla touched on what I think is part of the problem.  I don't think anything is wrong with Missouri.  The deal you are offering is great for the right people.  There are several real obstacles I think you will find in getting someone.  The vegetarian issue would be huge for me, and I suspect, for a lot of people.  I love animals, really, really love animals and I have lots of them.  I still eat meat.  Even if I were a vegetarian, "do not bring or keep firearms with you" would immediately disqualify me.  I don't hunt, but I absolutely will not give up my firearms.  The reasons are numerous, and that would be an absolute deal-breaker for me, and I suspect that is another huge road-block for a lot of people.  I don't personally smoke weed, but lots of people do, so they are out.  I don't smoke either, but a significant portion of the population does.  Now add in the fact that you need people are are willing and able to pack up and move to another area, and possibly another state, and you cut another big slice from the number of possible candidates.  Many people stay in the area where their family is, and because of that, they have a job and a home there.

I don't think what you are asking is unreasonable, and I think you will be able to find someone, but lots of things have to fall into place for the right person to find this opportunity.  I think you just need to stick with it, keep getting the word out, and you will find the right person.  The good news is, you were very upfront about what you will or will not accept, and I think that is fantastic.  Much better to put it out there right up front than to be wishy-washy about what you are looking for and have all parties have hurt feelings when they find out later that they aren't a good fit. Best of luck to you.  I hope you find some people that are exactly what you are looking for, and they do as well.

I think the challenge is finding the right folks to fit your needs and that may take 'advertising' more broadly.  
I definitely think being clear upfront about what you will and will not accept is smart.

It may be that only a small percent of folks will fit into your lifestyle so it may take getting your offer out there to larger numbers of folks in a variety of ways..

Judith, I remember what you were going through and that you had to sell. It's too bad because your place was really wonderful! Still, you do what you have to. We could never sell this place, but we would sure like to have someone else care about it enough to settle here and take over from us someday. Our boys aren't interested in it and since we want to keep it natural for wildlife, we thought a trust or conservation easement would be the best thing, but someone would still need to be here to watch over it. I just know it would become a trailer park or something worse if we sold it without an easement.

Tyler Ludens wrote:How are you looking for people?  Is this your first thread about this on permies?  People might want to know more about you and your place, your goals, vision for the community, etc.  Just over all a whole lot more information, including photos of your place and what you're creating there.

Definitely not the first time I've asked here for people to consider joining us, AND not even the first time this week. I have so many posts explaining what we're all about and what we're looking for (as well as all my other posts that will give anyone who cares to look plenty of info about how I think) that I didn't really want to go into it again. I figure if someone shows an interest, I can discuss everything with them that they could ever want to know about this place and us. I've put up photos before too, but they are more problematic because I don't have anyplace to store and link to them. I wish we could upload directly from our computers to this site -- that would make it a lot easier, but I realize it would take up a lot of space if everyone did that.

Carla Burke wrote:"We don't eat meat (haven't for over 30 years) so would require you to be vegans or vegetarians if interested in a long-term commitment to the place. For a shorter stay (seasonal or a few months work exchange), it wouldn't matter so long as you agree not to hunt or raise-to-kill animals on our property and do not bring or keep firearms with you. No smokers, please. I am allergic to cigarette smoke. Other than that, our only really strict requirement is that you do not do drugs or engage in illegal activity of any kind (to be blunt, you will be packing the same hour if we discover any of that here."

There you go. People who come to MO are typically looking for the freedom to do as they please, including exercising their 2A rights, hunting, fishing, etc. It's one of the best things about the state. The land in MO is so reasonably priced, particularly relative to most of the rest of the country, that with restrictions like yours, you'll find most people would rather just buy their own.

The people who like to hunt and love to collect guns are welcome to buy their own land. This is OUR land and we love wildlife too much to allow it to be killed. We also love animals, in general, too much to eat them. Our land, our rules (under the circumstances, those are pretty generous rules to live by in exchange for an opportunity to have free land for life -- possibly even inherit it -- if things work out). It isn't as if we would be charging rent for anyone to live here and I'm sure there are plenty of vegans and vegetarians out there who might appreciate that fact and for whom doing without meat and guns would be no hardship. THOSE are the people we want to live with and we can very well do without the others. I'm not trying to dictate to people outside our own property boundaries or take anyone's rights away from them, but we have the right to live as we choose too. Those are the things that are most important to us and upon which we will not compromise.

Deb Stephens wrote:
Definitely not the first time I've asked here for people to consider joining us, AND not even the first time this week. I have so many posts explaining what we're all about and what we're looking for (as well as all my other posts that will give anyone who cares to look plenty of info about how I think) that I didn't really want to go into it again.

I think linking to them in this thread might be helpful, because not everyone can remember what every poster has posted in the past, and some new people coming along might see this post and want to know more.

A simplified version might be to offer free rent on a small mobile home in exchange for light duties.

Judith, I remember what you were going through and that you had to sell. It's too bad because your place was really wonderful!

We didn't have to sell...living in this little town just became more and more appealing

We were so lucky with the couple who bought our place...they are into permaculture and have done so much work there already making it a productive farm.  They keep in touch and we can follow their progress...a little like armchair homesteading I guess.   For us, this slightly less than an acre on the edge of town is wonderful and in many ways easier to focus on and much better for us physically.  We've never regretted our decision to sell.

Odd, the Ozarks and surrounding area are a highly popular homesteading destination.

Nothing wrong with Missouri at all. I was born there.

When looking for land for my homestead I considered the Midwest but settled in Eastern WA after lots of considering and looking around.

It seems to me that one of your "problems" may be that in your original post on this topic, you listed far more negatives than positives. Even your headline was a negative. Then you went on to have a rather public disagreement with someone about something that very little to do with this topic. All-in-all, it doesn't paint an overwhelmingly positive picture of why folks should come live with you. ~~That's not to say you might not be an actual delight to live with. I don't know you. Maybe your place is heaven in Missouri. I'm just commenting on the effect of what you posted, and how you posted it, and what you added to it. I think you could probably do a much more appealing presentation, and maybe have better results.

Deb Stephens wrote:The people who like to hunt and love to collect guns are welcome to buy their own land. This is OUR land and we love wildlife too much to allow it to be killed. We also love animals, in general, too much to eat them. Our land, our rules (under the circumstances, those are pretty generous rules to live by in exchange for an opportunity to have free land for life -- possibly even inherit it -- if things work out). It isn't as if we would be charging rent for anyone to live here and I'm sure there are plenty of vegans and vegetarians out there who might appreciate that fact and for whom doing without meat and guns would be no hardship. THOSE are the people we want to live with and we can very well do without the others. I'm not trying to dictate to people outside our own property boundaries or take anyone's rights away from them, but we have the right to live as we choose too. Those are the things that are most important to us and upon which we will not compromise.

Deb, please understand, I'm not trying to be rude. I'm very simply, and straightforwardly answering your question. Like you, I prefer to lay it out there honestly, and upfront. Your question was what is wrong with MO, (or is it something else). The answer is - nothing is wrong with MO. It IS something else. Your land IS your land, and it is your absolute right to use and rule, as it were, your own way. There is nothing wrong with that, either. But, with your restrictions and (understandable) reluctance to outright commit, your targeted demographic is going to be minute, and possibly very difficult to find. Not impossible. But, you may be searching a very long time. I hope I'm wrong, and wish you well. But, I must admit, even among my rather large number of friends and family, across the country, who might fit most of your criteria, I know no one, who fits all of them, and none who would be interested in relocating, changing their own lives, to suit anyone else's expectations - regardless of the long term potential.

Judith Browning wrote:Haha...try Arkansas.  We had similar thoughts to yours several years ago.

In the end we decided to sell our forty acres and move to a near by small rural town.

I think your offer is quite fair and generous...just give it some time.

Seems like there are many here who are looking for this sort of opportunity...maybe not as seriously as they sound?  maybe some is location, some uncertainty about jumping into a new community?  

I don't know... I've always loved new opportunities and began my adventure here at 22yrs with a backpack and a couple garden tools and enough nativity to take a lot of risks....it worked for me

I think many feel like they need to have a certain level of 'preparedness' before heading out to the woods....and that's what you are offering.  

To me, it sounds like a perfect opportunity.

I agree about giving it some time, as frustrating as it is. In my generation (Millennial) there is a LOT of discussion and debate about which regions will be stable and prosperous during the rest of our lifetimes. It is a very, very complex and difficult thing to discuss, but I do see more and more people thinking about moving to a place that will be stable. Nowhere is perfect, but I think places like Missouri have a TON of potential, and Arkansas, too, among others. But it takes time. It takes time for people to let go of their notion of living in the less sustainable parts of the country and start the transition, which then takes more time. (sorry, that's not a shot across the bow at anyone for living in a place that might be construed as, "less sustainable")

Judith Browning wrote:

Judith, I remember what you were going through and that you had to sell. It's too bad because your place was really wonderful!

We didn't have to sell...living in this little town just became more and more appealing

We were so lucky with the couple who bought our place...they are into permaculture and have done so much work there already making it a productive farm.  They keep in touch and we can follow their progress...a little like armchair homesteading I guess.   For us, this slightly less than an acre on the edge of town is wonderful and in many ways easier to focus on and much better for us physically.  We've never regretted our decision to sell.

Sorry Judith, I didn't mean it quite the way I said it -- my wording was bad. I know you didn't HAVE to sell. I sort of meant it as more like you "reluctantly decided to sell". Either way, I'm glad you found someone who loves "your" place and keeps you updated. It sounds like a great relationship. I think I wouldn't mind selling either if we could find the right people like you did. I have always wanted to live near the ocean and would jump at the chance to trade places with someone on the coast if I could feel good about leaving this place to people who would love it as we do.

Deb Stephens wrote:Or is it something else? We keep looking for a person, couple or family to join us here on our land -- initially to help out around the place in exchange for a place to camp or set up a tiny house or RV, then eventually, make it permanent if we all get along and our goals/ideas mesh well. But ... no one seems to want to come down here, despite the fact that we absolutely welcome anyone --
Surely there is someone out there who would like to live in the country and work toward a sustainable lifestyle far from the hustle and bustle of the city? Talk to me. I can answer any questions you like and give more detailed information if you are interested. As for long-term stuff -- If we seem compatible, I'm sure we can work something out that will be a winner for all involved.

Do be patient. There will be someone out there who would live this opportunity, but I agree that despite wanting to welcome anyone, only 5 - 8 % of Americans are vegetarian or vegan so over 90% of your ideal people are automatically discounted. But this is your land, your rules. Wait and the perfect people will come. I for one would love to come and see what you have there. Maybe Permies could do a homestead exchange.....for working holidays!

I smiled when reading the original post, since there were something like 10 different things that would disqualify me from participation. And the longer the thread went on, the more disqualifications I accumulated. There might be someone, somewhere that meets all of those qualifications, but not anyone that I know personally.

I don't think anyone who's responded here is part of the crowd of young folks looking for this sort of opportunity.
We seem to be mostly settled, maybe older with families/tribes and have had enough experience to 'know' what we want in life and are looking at it through those eyes.

I think whether I would jump at the chance or not, there are those who would...it just takes connecting with them.

Sometimes I feel impatient for those who 'say' they want to live on the land, grow their own food, etc. but set up so many self imposed road blocks to setting it in motion.  Here's an opportunity to test the waters without more at stake than time spent.  



p.s.  hint...........red states need our presence the most

I couldn't find photos of your place in threads about it.  I think photos showing the features of the place would be helpful in encouraging interest.

Joseph Lofthouse wrote:I smiled when reading the original post, since there were something like 10 different things that would disqualify me from participation. And the longer the thread went on, the more disqualifications I accumulated. There might be someone, somewhere that meets all of those qualifications, but not anyone that I know personally.

My feelings are best summed up thusly:

Simonides of Keos wrote: So I will never waste my lifespan in the vain, unprofitable search for a blameless man. If you find him, send me word. But that one I will love and honour who does nothing base from free will. Against necessity, even the gods do not fight.

The person or people you're looking for probably exist, Deb, but I think that who you want for where you are is a tall order, for the reasons already offered. There is a disconnect between the types of activities that people move to your area to pursue and what you seek to allow on your property.

I don't think it's an unworthy goal; rather laudable in fact, though I was also disqualified from the first by some of the strictures. I hope you find a good fit for your place. But if those are all non-negotiable points, I think your only recourse is to wait.

-CK

One issue which is not specific to your case. I would not want to live on someone else's land with them hovering over my shoulder all the time, no ability to do what I wanted without clearing every little detail and one final thing is jobs.. what work opportunities are there? If you are really remote it's quite possible your major issue is just that people cannot afford to come and live with you.

The restrictions will cut a lot of people out, when I used to rent I would instantly ignore any advert that said, no smokers, dss  (social security), children or pets, even though I was/had none of those things. because I do not want to live somewhere with too many restrictions.  So listing a lot of restrictions will make some people pass over even though they do fit inside them.

It also raises a red flag, if those are the restrictions the advert puts upfront, how many more are going to appear down the line?


Some of the restrictions run counter to the types of people who wishe to live in that sort of area as well.

For me I stop at the vegetarian but while I do not hunt or smoke anything right now, I want the option to do so in the future if I so decide.

I think there are probably vegans and vegetarians out there who would appreciate living with other vegans and vegetarians.

...and there are also those who would like to live where there are no guns or animals being butchered...even in Missouri and Arkansas

I think there are probably vegans and vegetarians out there who don't appreciate the more judgemental side of those movements as well.

I think that, identified or not, there is a libertarian streak running through many who frequent this site, and many who take up alternatives to conventional agriculture, and conventional lifestyles. Reading the first post, the "NO DOGS ALLOWED" sting that would play on Peanuts when Snoopy tried to enter the school blared through my head. I think that's a turn-off to many, regardless of personal creed.

I consider myself fairly liberal-minded. I have gone from eating meat as the cornerstone of every meal to maybe eating it one to four times a month. I occasionally make accidental vegan cuisine because olive oil is cheaper than butter, and also doesn't burn as easily. I don't hunt, but would like to, although I would prefer to take up bow hunting unless it was for the pot, and against starvation. I like my pot quite a bit more than my alcohol, and would rather do without the latter than the former.

There are many different flavours of thought on what is "base," to reference the quote in my last post. People often won't subject themselves to willing scrutiny and judgement, so if any part of the initial offering suggests that kind of scrutiny and judgement, I think those people will continue their searches, regardless of how great a fit they could have been.

I don't have an answer for you, Deb. I hope you find someone exactly like you're looking for, who at the same time brings with them something, experiences, talent, whatever, that you weren't expecting that ends up enriching your life.

Oh, and I don't want to disappoint anyone, and at the same time, I don't want to insult. So feel free to insert a joke here about how what's wrong with Missouri is inherent to it, its inhabitants, its politics, or the country it's in. I don't think there is anything wrong with it, personally. It's not like it's Kentucky or anything.

(For any in doubt, yes, that's a joke. No, I'm not serious about Kentucky. I almost put Louisiana there. Not that there's anything wrong with Louisiana...) ;p

-CK

All personal opinions about 'conditions' and 'rules' and such aside, does anyone have ideas for where to post Deb's offer for a wider audience?

There must be other forums, maybe vegetarian homesteading forums, where there could be more exposure to more likely folks?

I wonder about Baker Creek Seeds, if they have a bulletin board, online or a real one, they are in Mansfield, Missouri and have loads of folks come through year round.

Maybe an ad in Mother Earth News although that's likely to cost.

I think the same view could be applied here as for Wheaton Labs...according to Paul, it won't be everyone's cup of tea...he's quite clear about the rules that must be followed in order to stay there though.

I think young, wanna be farmer's could benefit immensely from a stay on a well established homestead and might just find the rules worth it for the learning experience.

Judith Browning wrote:All personal opinions about 'conditions' and 'rules' and such aside, does anyone have ideas for where to post Deb's offer for a wider audience?

Ooh, that's a good idea. A few possible avenues that come to mind:

1. If there are any vegan/permie-friendly professors at a local ag college, they might be able to send some likely students your way.

2. If there are any local permie groups/PDCs/etc happening in St. Louis or other Missouri cities they might be able to get the word out.

3. Progressive religious congregations (Unitarian Universalist, United Church of Christ, Reform Judaism, etc.) in local cities might be willing to list it in their newsletter.

4. Student environmental groups at local colleges and universities might be able to distribute it to their members or put fliers up around campus for you.

Most of these options are going to result in candidates who need more training than an out-of-the-box permie, but personally, I'd rather have to teach people about the permaculture principles than have to teach them to value the lives around them. And I'd guess that it's easier to convince someone living in St. Louis to move to rural Missouri than someone living in Vermont.

I'm pretty surprised at all the skepticism. Just because you guys don't have veg*ns and people who couldn't care less about owning a gun in your social circles doesn't mean there aren't lots out there. My social circle is full of them :)

A friend of mine with a farm had some wwoofers and interns through his place for a while and it seemed like a pretty high percentage of them would have fit in well at Deb's place. He hadn't specified any restrictions that I know of. Definitely not dietary. And still the mythical veg*ns were there :p

I wish we could upload directly from our computers to this site -- that would make it a lot easier, but I realize it would take up a lot of space if everyone did that

Deb, we can...when you reply, just use the 'attachment' tab under the text box to the right of 'options'.  I store pictures from my camera on my computer (and eventually on flash drives) and upload from either one.

There is some sort of backstage 'magic' that resizes the photo once posted but we can click on them to see the original size...at least that is my understanding.

Judith Browning wrote:

I wish we could upload directly from our computers to this site -- that would make it a lot easier, but I realize it would take up a lot of space if everyone did that

Deb, we can...when you reply, just use the 'attachment' tab under the text box to the right of 'options'.  I store pictures from my camera on my computer (and eventually on flash drives) and upload from either one.

There is some sort of backstage 'magic' that resizes the photo once posted but we can click on them to see the original size...at least that is my understanding.

Added bonus all geo data is scrubbed from pics uploaded here

Wiley Fry wrote:

Judith Browning wrote:All personal opinions about 'conditions' and 'rules' and such aside, does anyone have ideas for where to post Deb's offer for a wider audience?

3. Progressive religious congregations (Unitarian Universalist, United Church of Christ, Reform Judaism, etc.) in local cities might be willing to list it in their newsletter.

Keeping in tune with thinking outside of the box and to expand on this subject a little more, there is a rather large agrarian Christian community presence on the web to put your vision out there to.   Of course I may be wrong on the 2nd amendment part of your requirement, but there are those out there that would surely be interested in what you have to offer.

There are also those that hold Hindu, Buddhist, and Taoist beliefs and could be a perfect match for what you are looking for.  Their belief system parallels what you are looking for, I think.  Now, where to find them is a question that I have no answer for.  Maybe try social media?

I wish you the best of luck in your endeavors.

Deb Stephens wrote:Or is it something else? We keep looking for a person, couple or family to join us here on our land -- initially to help out around the place in exchange for a place to camp or set up a tiny house or RV, then eventually, make it permanent if we all get along and our goals/ideas mesh well. But ... no one seems to want to come down here, despite the fact that we absolutely welcome anyone -- regardless of color, creed, sexual orientation, age, family status, etc.. Is it the humid summers, the ticks & chiggers, the fact that this is a deep red state (!!!), the culture (or lack thereof ) or what? I'd really like to know.

Just for your information, we have 75 acres next door to Mark Twain National Forest, near Hercules Glade Wilderness (so lots of room to roam, forage, etc.) We are near Branson, MO if you like that sort of thing, and Bull Shoals Lake as well. We don't have our community goals set in stone other than to have like-minded people around us. People who care about the planet, love animals (really, really LOVE animals and agree to help out with those we have while you are here) and want to work toward a simpler, more sustainable lifestyle. We don't eat meat (haven't for over 30 years) so would require you to be vegans or vegetarians if interested in a long-term commitment to the place. For a shorter stay (seasonal or a few months work exchange), it wouldn't matter so long as you agree not to hunt or raise-to-kill animals on our property and do not bring or keep firearms with you. No smokers, please. I am allergic to cigarette smoke.

Surely there is someone out there who would like to live in the country and work toward a sustainable lifestyle far from the hustle and bustle of the city? Talk to me.

Hi Deb. I tried talking about a vision kind of like that before, but I was discouraged from this, but checked once in a while when I wound up not being busy with something else.

I am in California. For something really right for it, I would willingly still move out. I am vegan, and really wanted community with other vegans. But what I want would be sustainable in every way, as far as possible, with all things needed growing at the same location for sustenance, with simplicity in living, still with needed level of comfort for a fully satisfactory life with this. Others for this are not easy to find. All who come should just willingly contribute to the community viability with them, as far as they can. All ways of living would then be at such location.

Hunting and using animals should not happen with this, it would not be as sustainable if any were hunted or used. I do not smoke, and never was a smoker, for my own health now, I need to avoid anywhere there is smoke.

I would like living in such country, working with others at natural farming for such needed things in simplicity. I see something fully apart from civilization is called for, and such a thing needs to be an independent group as a community with sustainable ways.

As I am uncertain about communication through this, maybe you will be willing to communicate through the purple moosages. Through that, we might choose another means of communication still.

You totally had me, until you mentioned the vegan thing! My husband and I are looking for exactly what you are speaking of! But we want to raise animals to eat and to sell to eat as well! If you ever decide to change this stipulation please contact me!

Sami Muggy wrote:You totally had me, until you mentioned the vegan thing! My husband and I are looking for exactly what you are speaking of! But we want to raise animals to eat and to sell to eat as well! If you ever decide to change this stipulation please contact me!

Sorry, that is probably THE most important thing to us. We love animals and will never allow them to be raised for food on our land. I hope you find what you are looking for.