Win a deck of Permaculture Playing Cards this week in the Permaculture forum!
  • Post Reply Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic
permaculture forums growies critters building homesteading energy monies kitchen purity ungarbage community wilderness fiber arts art permaculture artisans regional education skip experiences global resources the cider press projects digital market permies.com private forums all forums
this forum made possible by our volunteer staff, including ...
master stewards:
  • James Freyr
  • Nicole Alderman
  • Anne Miller
  • r ranson
  • Mike Jay Haasl
  • Dave Burton
  • Pearl Sutton
stewards:
  • paul wheaton
  • Joylynn Hardesty
  • Joseph Lofthouse
garden masters:
  • Steve Thorn
gardeners:
  • Dan Boone
  • Carla Burke
  • Kate Downham

Metalworking Badge - Straw/Wood/Iron brainstorming

 
master steward
Posts: 5386
Location: Northern WI (zone 4)
1499
hunting trees books food preservation solar woodworking
  • Likes 3
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Paul and I are working on defining the remaining levels for a number of badges.  We could use your help coming up with more items that could be added to the various lists!  If you haven't heard of PEP yet, please check out This Thread.

I'm organizing the experiences by skill set so that the student will have to do some work in a variety of areas to complete the badge.  For instance, welding AND forging AND sheet metal work.  Otis wants to know that you're not a one trick pony.

In the past we've set up badges where you have to do a set number of things from a list.  The issue with that, at least for this badge, is that forging a hammer is harder than soldering a copper flower.  So instead, we're going to try a point based system.  Forge a nice fire poker, get a point.  Forge a draw knife, earn three points.  Earn seven points, you have the forging part of the Straw badge done.  

Plus, a pretty or elegant or well built poker may be harder to make that a decent poker.  So we're introducing a range of points for many of the items.  If you make a nice poker, you get a point.  If you go above and beyond and make a gorgeous poker with a dragon handle, the certifier can give you up to three points.

So, enough background.  Here are the badges as I have them now.  I could use some help adding more artifacts to the lists, building out the Iron list and double checking that I'm not waaaay off base on how hard some items are relative to the rest of them.

Straw Badge
Welding list (complete seven points, duplication allowed but at least 5 different items):
Projects should mainly be constructed by gas or arc welding
Make a twisting wrench from a crescent style wrench - ½ point
Make a guillotine fuller - 3 points
Make a spring fuller - 1 point
Make four matching angle braces (broader than 90 degrees) to attach legs to a platform (deer stand, water tower, etc) - 2 points
Weld a trailer ball to a tractor implement - ½ point
Weld two hooks or chain clevises to a tractor bucket - ½ point
Welded digging fork - 1 point
Fix a crack in a tool - ½ point
Beefy set of shelf brackets - 1 point
Sawhorse brackets for two wooden sawhorses - 2 points
Door latch - 1 point

Forging list (complete seven points, duplication allowed but at least 5 different items):
Projects should mainly be constructed by forging
Set of tongs with rivet and drawn out handles (no flat stock with twist) - 2 points
Forge and heat treat two punches or hot chisels or one of each (show they aren’t brittle) - 1 point
Nice fire poker - 1 points
Nice gate handle - 1 points
Drawknife - 3 points
Hardy hole tool - 1 points
Forged digging fork - 3 points
Forge a spring fuller - 1 point
Log peeling spud - 2 points
Tomahawk head from railroad spike (ready for handle) - 2 points
Decent knife from railroad spike or file - 2 points
Heat treat a homemade knife and prove it - 1 point
Hand trowel - 2 points
Hinge - 2 points
Holdfast - 1 point
2 wingnuts or other hand tightened nuts - 2 points
Repoint and harden/temper a pointy tool (pick, mattock, etc) without removing any metal - 2 points
Marshmallow or hot dog fork for campfire - 1 point (2 if SS)
20 nails - 2 points
Branding iron (for leather or wood) - 3 points
Utility grade broad axe - 3 points
Utility grade adze - 2 points
Utility grade froe - 2 points
Utility grade gouge - 2 points

Shop list (complete seven points, duplication allowed but at least 5 different items):
Crude forge - 1 point
Prep coil spring to use for 6 punches/chisels - 1 point
Make a center punch - 1/2 point
Crude anvil on a stump - 1 point
Sturdy metal work table - 2 points
Make a sheet metal hand brake - 1 point
Rebar drawer/door handle (flattened ends - torch?) - 1 point
Nail heading plate - 2 points
Stamp with initials to mark metal - 2 points

Sheet metal list (complete seven points, duplication allowed but at least 5 different items):
Water trough or pan - 2 points
Urine diverter for willow feeder - 1 point
Nice RMH ash scoop - 1 point
Nice dustpan - 1 point
Grain scoop - 1 point
Chicken funnel - 1/2 point
Squirrel/raccoon guard for a post - 1 point
Solar oven reflectors - ½ point
Pinwheel or spiral wind spinner to scare birds from growies - 1 point
Copper flower - 1 point
Sink a small bowl or spoon - 2-6 points
Gravity powered fan - 2 points for Sheet Metal, 4 points for Other
Lamp shade - 3 points
Reflector style camp stove (redirects heat from campfire to cook) - 4 points
Chicken feeder - 2 points
Storage box without lid - 2 points
Storage box with lid - 4 points
Chimney cap - 4 points
Berry picker hand scoop - 1 point
Berry picker standing scoop - 2 points
Mailbox - 2 points

Other list (complete seven points, duplication allowed but at least 5 different items):
Make, grind, polish and stamp a name tag or key fob - 1 point
Solder some garden art (flowers, etc) from copper - ½-4 points
Sand cast anything from aluminum (bigger than a golf ball) - 2 points
Cut a sign from metal, torch or plasma (8” by 18” min) - 1 points
Copper tongs - 2 points
Copper shishi odoshi - 3 points
Campfire tripod and hanging grill (buy grill and bulk chain, make/assemble the rest) - 2 points
Assemble firearm from purchased components - 2 points
Dress up a mushroomed chisel or splitting wedge - 1/2 point
Draw down the diameter of a piece of wire with a draw plate - 1 point
Make a 6 oz ingot of metal other than lead - 2 points

Wood Badge
180 point needed in total
Oddball points and duplication is allowed

Welding list:
Projects should mainly be constructed by gas or arc welding, one project needs to be from metal other than steel
30 total points needed:
3+ new items from Straw list
4+ items from this list:
Build a trailer (4x6 or bigger) - 8-24 points
Make a welding table (3’x4’ or bigger, adjustable pad feet, apron to clamp to, ¼” thick flat top or grating for torch work) - 8-16 points
Two matching metal sawhorses - 4 points
Work stand (vertically adjustable “T” that screws down into tripod legs) - 4 points
Exhaust system for a vehicle - 3-6 points
Make a length of chain with 10 links - 3 points
J tube rocket engine (twofer with Rocket badge) - 4 points
Decorative arbor or entry for a gate - 8-16 points
Functional gate - 4 points
Pretty gate - 8-16 points
Bicycle frame - 8 points

Forging list:
Projects should mainly be constructed by forging
30 total points needed:
3+ new items from Straw list
4+ items from this list:
All the hardware for a door (hinges, latch, knob), no lock - 6-18 points
Custom hammer (hardened) - 2 points
Beautiful door knocker - 3-9 points
Beautiful door handle - 3-9 points
10 punches/drifts/chisels - 3 points
Beautiful axe - 4-12 points
C-clamp - 4 points
Shovel - 6 points
Decorative and functional spindles for 10’ of railing - 6-18 points
Make a length of chain with 10 links (forge welding) - 5 points
Soup ladle from one piece of metal (food safe) - 3 points
1 place setting of tableware fork/knife/spoon (food safe) - 4-8 points
High quality broad axe - 4 points
High quality adze - 3 points
High quality froe - 3 points
High quality gouge - 3 points
Two person log tong (swivel or pinching)- 4 points

Sheet metal list:
30 total points needed:
3+ new items from Straw list
3+ items from this list:
Custom bike fender - 4 points
Custom ductwork for hvac system (20') - 8 points
Raise a small bowl - 4-12 points
Watering can - 8-16 points
Copper pot/kettle/pan with tin - 8-16 points (counts for Other or Forging)

Other list:
30 total points needed:
1+ new items from Straw Shop list
1+ new items from Straw Other list
4+ items from this list:
Keyed lock - 8-24 points
Safe box that is pretty- 4-12 points
Make a gun barrel - 10 points
Make a firearm - 30-90 points
Smelt iron from ore - 50 points
Make a heat powered wood stove fan - 20 points
Veggie oil foundry - 4 points
Japanese box bellows (cross over with dimensional woodworking) - 4 points
Treadle hammer - 20 points
Build a welder (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lM4sO6CN0mI) - 8 points
Build a plasma cutter - 16 points
Nice cutting table - 8 points
Turn down a brake rotor - 2 points
Stamp with artistic touchmark to mark metal - 3 points
Timber tool - 16 points
Log arch - 12 points

Iron Badge
1030 points
Oddball points and duplication is allowed

Welding list:
Projects should be primarily but not necessarily entirely constructed by welding.
100 points needed.
3+ new items from Wood level
1 project must be with aluminum and one with stainless steel.
Remaining points can come from additional items done from Straw and Wood lists, plus these items if you'd like:

Hammer patch and weld a hole in a truck - 8 points
Large smoker ala https://permies.com/t/120306/Homemade-Smoker - 30 points
Large trailer - 40 points
Convert a vehicle to wood or charcoal gasification (joint project with Tool Care)  - 80 points (plus 10 points of Tool Care (Wood/Iron))
  - Street legal, capable of 60mph and 40 mile range
Convert a tractor or garden tractor to charcoal gasification (joint project with Tool Care)  - 40 points (plus 5 points of Tool Care (Wood/Iron))
  - Capable of 6 hrs run time
Small trailer with walking suspension - 40 points
Large trailer with walking suspension - 60 points
Large solar panel mounting system (braces, not just clips) 60+ square feet - 20 points

Forging list:
Projects should be primarily but not necessarily entirely constructed by forging.
100 points needed.
3+ new items from Wood level
Remaining points can come from additional items done from Straw and Wood lists, plus these items if you'd like:

Beautiful fire tool set - 16-48 points
Iron/steel gate (think 1700’s Europe) - 80-240 points
Elegant spindles for 10’ railing - 12-36 points
Chandelier - 40-120 points
Nice Candelabra or pair of candlesticks - 16 points
Coach light - 8 points

Sheet metal list:
100 points needed.  They can come from additional items done from Straw and Wood lists, plus these items if you'd like:

Beautiful hammered copper sink (food safe) - 40 points
Steel wok - 40 points

Other list:
100 points needed.  They can come from additional items done from Straw and Wood lists, plus these items if you'd like:

Make a mid size lathe using a lathe - 100 points
Convert a vehicle to electric (joint project with Tool Care and Electricity) - 35 points (plus 40 points of Electricity (Wood/Iron) and 30 of Tool Care(Wood/Iron))
  - Street legal, capable of 60mph and 40 mile range
Convert a motorcycle or dirt bike to electric (joint project with Tool Care and Electricity) - 8 points (plus 100 points of Electricity (Wood/Iron) and 5 of Tool Care(Wood/Iron))
  - Street legal, capable of 20 mile range
Convert a tractor to electric (joint project with Tool Care and Electricity) - 35 points (plus 40 points of Electricity (Wood/Iron) and 30 of Tool Care(Wood/Iron))
  - Capable of 6 hrs run time
Large articulating solar panel system ala Solar Leviathan (40+ square feet) - 40 points
 
pollinator
Posts: 157
Location: Monticello Florida
32
homeschooling forest garden foraging chicken wofati food preservation wood heat homestead
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
What about smelting iron from ore?
 
Mike Haasl
master steward
Posts: 5386
Location: Northern WI (zone 4)
1499
hunting trees books food preservation solar woodworking
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Good one Huxley!  Could you do that with a rocket stove?  Any guess as to how hard that is to do?  I'm guessing Wood or Iron badge...

I also came up with another Straw level item for the Other List:  Dress up a mushroomed splitting wedge - 1/2 point
 
Mike Haasl
master steward
Posts: 5386
Location: Northern WI (zone 4)
1499
hunting trees books food preservation solar woodworking
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Any other ideas out there?  There's lot of room for some large projects in the Iron badge...
 
pollinator
Posts: 215
86
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I'll have to think some more on this but right off the top of my head looking at these lists I'm not seeing anything about learning to use a tap and die set to make nuts, bolts, or threaded parts in general.  I would think that is a major skill Otis would like to see.

Coming from my own bias in metalwork I would also add making a bowl by sinking (stretching the sheet metal down into a depression) and making one by raising (hammering the sides up, and compressing them to make the form using raising stakes.  This process can make the metal thicker or keep it about the same thickness.)  Raising is more challenging than sinking.

Making chain.

Drawing down wire, ie. taking a thicker diameter wire and using a draw plate turning it into a thinner and long length of wire.

This might be more small scale jewelry oriented, but its a nice skill to be able to take scrap metal, melt it down and pour out an ingot, then mill that ingot out into new sheet metal, or wire.

Make a seemed tube/pipe.

I'll try and think some more on this, but right now I gotta go do some actual metalwork.  I've been doing business crap on the computer all day it seems!  ;)
 
gardener
Posts: 2778
Location: Central Texas zone 8a
543
cattle chicken bee sheep
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Some decent starter projects:

Make a grab handle out of rebar or another metal. Heat it, bend it, flatten the ends,  drill two holes. It can be done with a torch.

Make a knife out of not a knife. You will be grinding vs forging. Making a knife from a file is common as it is the proper metal.

For forging:

Stretch a piece so it's longer than what you started with.

Make a acrap piece thicker than what you started with.

Make a hole in metal by hitting a round object into the heated metal.
 
Mike Haasl
master steward
Posts: 5386
Location: Northern WI (zone 4)
1499
hunting trees books food preservation solar woodworking
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

David Huang wrote:I'll have to think some more on this but right off the top of my head looking at these lists I'm not seeing anything about learning to use a tap and die set to make nuts, bolts, or threaded parts in general.  I would think that is a major skill Otis would like to see.


I agree, it was light on tap and die stuff.  I couldn't think of any artifacts that we could specify that needed tap or die work.  But now that you mention nuts and bolts, it's obvious.  Make a nut.  Thread a rod for a project (not just make-work).

David Huang wrote:
Coming from my own bias in metalwork I would also add making a bowl by sinking (stretching the sheet metal down into a depression) and making one by raising (hammering the sides up, and compressing them to make the form using raising stakes.  This process can make the metal thicker or keep it about the same thickness.)  Raising is more challenging than sinking.

Making chain.

Drawing down wire, ie. taking a thicker diameter wire and using a draw plate turning it into a thinner and long length of wire.

This might be more small scale jewelry oriented, but its a nice skill to be able to take scrap metal, melt it down and pour out an ingot, then mill that ingot out into new sheet metal, or wire.


Good ones!!

David Huang wrote:
Make a seemed tube/pipe.


I'm thinking a rifle barrel could be one artifact from making a tube.  Any other projects that tube making could be intertwined with?
 
gardener
Posts: 776
Location: Soutwest Ohio
183
homeschooling forest garden foraging rabbit tiny house books food preservation cooking writing woodworking homestead
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Maybe I missed it, but I didn't see a holdfast on that list. Making one of those is simple, but extremely useful. My skill set is currently pretty limited here though, so I don't have much else to contribute. Maybe one of those heat powered wood stove fans could be nice if there's a way to make one from sheet metal and/or forged materials.
 
Mike Haasl
master steward
Posts: 5386
Location: Northern WI (zone 4)
1499
hunting trees books food preservation solar woodworking
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

wayne fajkus wrote:Some decent starter projects:

Make a grab handle out of rebar or another metal. Heat it, bend it, flatten the ends,  drill two holes. It can be done with a torch.

Make a knife out of not a knife. You will be grinding vs forging. Making a knife from a file is common as it is the proper metal.


Good ones!  We had the "make a knife from a railroad spike or file" but might as well open it up to any hard metal.

wayne fajkus wrote:
For forging:

Stretch a piece so it's longer than what you started with.

Make a acrap piece thicker than what you started with.

Make a hole in metal by hitting a round object into the heated metal.


A challenge we have is that the skills generally want to be associated with "artifacts" or projects.  So while "tap a threaded hole into a piece of metal" is a great skill to have, we'd rather have the task be "Make a wing nut that involves tapping a hole".  Can we come up with tangible projects or artifacts that would require these skills?  Forging tongs makes you stretch out the handles.  Hopefully you punch the rivet hole but I guess they could be drilled.  Making a chunk of metal bigger than it started is great, I'm trying to think of a good project that uses that skill.  Fancy spindles or pickets?  I mean, rivets require that but you and I are probably thinking of something more substantial.
 
Mike Haasl
master steward
Posts: 5386
Location: Northern WI (zone 4)
1499
hunting trees books food preservation solar woodworking
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

D. Logan wrote:Maybe I missed it, but I didn't see a holdfast on that list.

 That's a great straw one!

D. Logan wrote:Maybe one of those heat powered wood stove fans could be nice if there's a way to make one from sheet metal and/or forged materials.

 Oooh, that would also be a great project.  I think they require some electronics in them to turn the fan (Thermo Electric Generator?).  But I don't believe it's terribly out of reach.  And it would be a great project.
 
wayne fajkus
gardener
Posts: 2778
Location: Central Texas zone 8a
543
cattle chicken bee sheep
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Mike Jay Haasl wrote:
A challenge we have is that the skills generally want to be associated with "artifacts" or projects.  So while "tap a threaded hole into a piece of metal" is a great skill to have, we'd rather have the task be "Make a wing nut that involves tapping a hole".  Can we come up with tangible projects or artifacts that would require these skills?  Forging tongs makes you stretch out the handles.  Hopefully you punch the rivet hole but I guess they could be drilled.  Making a chunk of metal bigger than it started is great, I'm trying to think of a good project that uses that skill.  Fancy spindles or pickets?  I mean, rivets require that but you and I are probably thinking of something more substantial.



I forgot "heat quenching" and "bevel edging a ruff knife edge"That plus what i listed will cover a lot of technique to get you into forging. Call it a beginners course (straw). You can't forge a knife without stretching, shrinking(make it fatter), bevelling and quenching. These are 20 minute tasks individually but add up to potentially hours to combine all of these to make an artifact like a drawknife.

Maybe the answer is a crappy knife. Form a basic ugly crappy knife shape as one. That would do 2 tasks. Add a crappy bevel as another. Quench it as a third?
 
Mike Haasl
master steward
Posts: 5386
Location: Northern WI (zone 4)
1499
hunting trees books food preservation solar woodworking
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Yeah, that's why I was thinking the drawknife would be a higher point item (assuming it's forged for wooden handles).  Now that I think about it, at the lab they have drawknives that aren't forged at all.  Welded tube steel for handles.  Maybe there should be two options for drawknives - forged (3pts) and unforged (1pt).  

Good points about heat treating.  Maybe one Straw item is making a knife from something and then there's another straw item to heat treat that knife and somehow prove it's hard and not too brittle.  And if you want to save heat treating for Wood, no problem.
 
wayne fajkus
gardener
Posts: 2778
Location: Central Texas zone 8a
543
cattle chicken bee sheep
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Build a camp style rocket stove (weld)

Weld an arbor for grapes/vines, or gate enty.

Build a gate (weld)

Plasma cut a sign

Slide latch for door (weld)

Lamp shade (sheetmetal)

Camp style reflector bread oven (sheetmetal). Reflects heat from campfire to cook.

Chicken feeder (sheetmetal)

Storage box (sheetmetal)

Turn ammo box into something else (shertmetal)

Mini rocket stove or heater from tin cans (sheetmetal)
 
pollinator
Posts: 347
Location: Boston, Massachusetts
105
urban books building solar rocket stoves ungarbage
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Hi Mike, I just got your PM (I'm at work and won't really have time until later tonight and the weekend).
I've got some ideas about artifacts, and I think artifacts are more powerful projects than sample exercises (like drill and tap a hole in a plate), but I also think that the artifacts could be aimed at developing skills without getting lost in the weeds of beginning by creating a self-made version of readily available tools. (and frankly quite inexpensive at: hardware store/yard sale/flea market)
You hit upon the blacksmith tongs, and that's a great example, where the skills required are foundational and the end result is also much more valuable. Tongs are much harder to come by than a center punch or a cold chisel. Tongs were the first lesson when I began learning blacksmithing in college, we were instructed to buy a hammer, but then were taught how to "tune" it, and shape the handle to fit...
Making a center punch or cold chisel is basically the same as making a hot cut, or slitting chisel, or a square punch; which teaches the skills, but again, provides a tool that cannot be bought at the hardware store today.

I also like the idea of modifying/repairing/re-purposing of tools, almost more than scratch-made ones. Things such as: replace a handle on a hammer, modify a wrench into a bending fork, reshape and re-temper a chisel, or re-point and harden/temper a pick axe or a digging bar...

In my opinion, as far as PEP/PEX is concerned, the skill learned is way more valuable than the artifact, which is just the proof. (Yes, of course, the artifacts have intrinsic value...)

 
David Huang
pollinator
Posts: 215
86
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I agree that artifacts/objects are better than just exercises, though I wonder if something could be done that leaves the actual artifact to be created very vague as long as it incorporates certain exercises.    This way people could tackle making specific, but perhaps odd, things they need on their homestead that aren't on the list.

Some object ideas that might be good:

fabricate a gate latch.
Use hand made tubing to create hinges for use in a project.
fabricate a watering can (this could involve the use of tubing as well, perhaps even swaged down to create a more beautiful look)
Make a forged hammer head (this could combine well with a wood bb to make and attach the handle.)
fabricate a metal box, including hinged lid and hasp for a lock.
fabricate a chimney cap
forge a soup ladle from a single piece of metal, make sure it is food safe
raise some copper pots/pans and tin them to make them food safe
create your own silverware

I was realizing too that there is a whole segment of metalworking that hasn't been addressed here yet.  That of using a mill and/or lathe to shape metal.  I've heard that a lathe is one of the few tools that is capable of making a replica of itself.  Using a lathe to make a new lathe would be quite the project!
 
Mike Haasl
master steward
Posts: 5386
Location: Northern WI (zone 4)
1499
hunting trees books food preservation solar woodworking
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
You guys and gals are awesome!

Wayne, that's a wonderful list!!!

Kenneth and David, I agree that the skill is much more important to Otis than the artifact.  I believe it's easier to show Otis the skill when you have pictures of the artifact.  I also think it's ok to, from time to time, have a BB for displaying a skill by making your own random artifact that you need on your property.

Great list David, I totally forgot about making pots, ladles or the like.  When you say to make a soup ladle food safe, what does that entail?

I wondered about millwork (lathe, mill, etc) but struggled to think of a good project.  But now that I'm imagining Otis in a greasy shop, I'm wondering about turning down brake disks or something like that...

I'll edit the top post to include many of these items and I'll take a swag at the number of points.  Feel free to look through it in a day to see if I got any of them terribly off (high or low).

Thanks everyone!!!
 
David Huang
pollinator
Posts: 215
86
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Mike Jay Haasl wrote:
Great list David, I totally forgot about making pots, ladles or the like.  When you say to make a soup ladle food safe, what does that entail?

I wondered about millwork (lathe, mill, etc) but struggled to think of a good project.  But now that I'm imagining Otis in a greasy shop, I'm wondering about turning down brake disks or something like that...



By making something food safe I mean that the surface coating should be of a metal suitable for food.  Copper, brass, or bronze are generally not considered food safe.  Bare copper might be fine, but it would have to stay bare and clean.  As I understand it the oxides/patinas that can naturally develop on copper are not a good idea to ingest.  Historically such things might be tinned, ie. given a thin coating of tin.  I haven't actually done this myself, but my girlfriend who is also a metalsmith was telling me she learned how in grad school from someone who learned from the Romani (gypsies).  I hope to have her show me how at some point.  More commonly these days such pieces would get plated in silver, or simply be made in silver to begin with, which is what I'd do.  :)  Stainless steel is also a food safe surface.  I don't know about regular steel.  I think the hazards there are more about it rusting, though I don't really know what all goes into all the steel alloys.  Obviously cast iron is fine, but I don't know that I've ever heard of a cast iron ladle.  Making your own cast iron pots and pans would be pretty cool.  That might be a use for some milling too in order to clean up the surface of the casting to the glassy smooth finish.

For myself I really haven't worked with mills or lathes, but I know they are a major element in modern metalwork, esp. when it comes to making useful tools and such.  

I suppose there is also hydraulic die forming that could be considered.  Those are commonly used in the art jewelry/metalsmithing world that I live in, though I haven't gone that route myself.  They can be used to form vessels, stamp out parts, imprint pattern imagery, etc.  From what I understand making your own 20 ton press would be an undertaking, but not really that hard, for another project aimed at building a shop.
 
wayne fajkus
gardener
Posts: 2778
Location: Central Texas zone 8a
543
cattle chicken bee sheep
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Not an artifact but it might be worthy to test two different metals for carbon content. I'll use rebar vs axle springs as an example. When you cut/grind each with a grinder, the sparks are greater with the higher carbon springs.

Its something worthy to know vs spending hours on something that cannot be hardened.

I think it could be done with one person grinding and another taking the pics. Maybe use rebar as the base and finding a metal with greater content? Random metal from scrap pile, pliers, file, plumbers wrench, etc.
 
wayne fajkus
gardener
Posts: 2778
Location: Central Texas zone 8a
543
cattle chicken bee sheep
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Hammering sheets (steel or copper) on a sand bag. Only reference may be in sheetmetal for a bike fender. Trying to think artifacts.

Maybe the copper bowl discussed. Maybe a vessel sink?

What kind of steel would be needed for a wok?

Maybe hammer a patch for a hole in a truck. Hammer it, cut out bad metal. Weld in new metal.

A feed or ice scoop could be hammered.

A lid or cover of some type. Maybe dome shaped.

A domed cap for a post. Would that help with rotting? At the coast its not uncommon to have a cone on a post to keep ocean birds from landing and pooping on your deck.

Should something involve riveting? A box, a down spot.

Just posting up random stuff to provoke thought.
 
Kenneth Elwell
pollinator
Posts: 347
Location: Boston, Massachusetts
105
urban books building solar rocket stoves ungarbage
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Forging:
Nail heading tool, and nails enough for a small project. Levels up - additional size heading tools and more nails

Spring fuller could actually also be a forging project.

Marking stamp to identify your tools or creations. Ideas: 2 or more initials or short name in one tool, a logo or combined letterforms, a figurative shape (a bird, tree, star, etc...)

A hot branding iron, (or a brass freezing “iron”).
The hot iron could be used on wooden things if burning livestock isn’t your jam... this could also be small scale for a repeated wood burning or leather burning design, like on a belt or strap.
 
Mike Haasl
master steward
Posts: 5386
Location: Northern WI (zone 4)
1499
hunting trees books food preservation solar woodworking
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Thanks Kenneth and Wayne, I added a bunch of those.  We now have a pretty damn good list of projects here.  Yay team!
 
Kenneth Elwell
pollinator
Posts: 347
Location: Boston, Massachusetts
105
urban books building solar rocket stoves ungarbage
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
A practical idea for a shop-made wing nut: replace the wing nut for tensioning a hacksaw blade with one made with broader wings. Easier to turn, and softer on the hands.

 
Posts: 29
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
welding & sheet metal is not a problem, but Blacksmith is a little more involved.
Is this an honor system, how does one prove he/she made things on the list.
Photos or video?
Do you have threads for woodworking & leather working also.
What about sewing,canning,gardening?
 
Mike Haasl
master steward
Posts: 5386
Location: Northern WI (zone 4)
1499
hunting trees books food preservation solar woodworking
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Hi Joe, as each badge bit is made into its own post, the photos or videos that you need in order to prove you did it are all laid out.  For instance, here's one for making a poultice with plantain.  I'm thinking that for the blacksmithing ones we'd have folks take a few pictures as they do their project.

There are badges set up for 22 different elements of permaculture homesteading, check them out Here.  There's a whole badge system for dimensional woodworking and another for roundwood woodworking.  I'm not sure about leatherworking, I'd guess that it would be covered in the Textiles badge.  Sewing is in Textiles, Canning is in the Food Preservation badge and there's a Gardening one.  

If you're asking about a thread like this one that gets into the higher badge levels, there isn't one for those badges yet.  But we're working our way toward defining all the upper levels for all the badges.
 
pollinator
Posts: 284
Location: Ozarks
66
homeschooling goat dog tiny house chicken cooking building solar wood heat homestead
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Smoker?

https://permies.com/t/120306/Homemade-Smoker

My other stuff - electric signs - auto body incl welding on rear quarters - right hand drive conversion - custom tailgate

https://route66custom.com/category/fabrication/
 
Mike Haasl
master steward
Posts: 5386
Location: Northern WI (zone 4)
1499
hunting trees books food preservation solar woodworking
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Thanks John, that smoker looks cool.  I'll see if it fits with Paul's vision of permaculture.
 
Mike Haasl
master steward
Posts: 5386
Location: Northern WI (zone 4)
1499
hunting trees books food preservation solar woodworking
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Paul and I chatted and it does fit!  We discussed a bunch more stuff and I've updated the top post accordingly.  Biggest changes are that we:
  • Combined the Other and Shop sections for the Wood and Iron levels
  • Added a requirement for SS and aluminum welding to the higher levels
  • Added a combo Iron project for an electric vehicle conversion (points for metalworking, tool care and electrical

  • The areas we now need more help with are coming up with some aluminum and SS welding projects, and more Iron level mega projects.

    Thanks for all the help!
     
    steward
    Posts: 28902
    Location: missoula, montana (zone 4)
    hugelkultur trees chicken wofati bee woodworking
    • Likes 2
    • Mark post as helpful
    • send pies
    • Quote
    • Report post to moderator
    What about making a timber tool like what is in this video:




    Or a log arch:

     
    David Huang
    pollinator
    Posts: 215
    86
    • Likes 1
    • Mark post as helpful
    • send pies
    • Quote
    • Report post to moderator
    That timber tool was pretty sweet!  I've never seen such a thing before.  Though I have done similar things with ropes and a come along to pull the tree in the direction I want instead of pushing it from behind.  Making a come along might be another interesting project.
     
    Mike Haasl
    master steward
    Posts: 5386
    Location: Northern WI (zone 4)
    1499
    hunting trees books food preservation solar woodworking
    • Mark post as helpful
    • send pies
    • Quote
    • Report post to moderator
    Great ideas Paul!  I edited the top post to add the log arch and timber tool.  

    David, I'm a bit leery to have people build too many things that "should" be engineered for safety.  But I could be off base and Otis would love that...
     
    David Huang
    pollinator
    Posts: 215
    86
    • Likes 3
    • Mark post as helpful
    • send pies
    • Quote
    • Report post to moderator

    Mike Jay Haasl wrote:
    David, I'm a bit leery to have people build too many things that "should" be engineered for safety.  But I could be off base and Otis would love that...



    I suspect that it would indeed be a far more challenging project than it might appear at first glance.  

    Another idea related to logging might be a peavy hook or a cant hook.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cant_hook

    I've got another tool designed to let two people more easily lift up a log.  I don't know what it's called, but I'll try to get a photo of it this weekend sometime to post.  It seems like it could make a good metalworking project too.
     
    Mike Haasl
    master steward
    Posts: 5386
    Location: Northern WI (zone 4)
    1499
    hunting trees books food preservation solar woodworking
    • Likes 4
    • Mark post as helpful
    • send pies
    • Quote
    • Report post to moderator
    Good ones!  A peavy and a cant hook would be great.  I'll add them to the list next time I'm in there.  I used a two person tong thingie when up on the Lab this spring.  Maybe they're called a "Two person log tongs"?

     
    David Huang
    pollinator
    Posts: 215
    86
    • Mark post as helpful
    • send pies
    • Quote
    • Report post to moderator
    The two person tong thingy I have is similar to that one, but all  out of metal and designed with a pivot point in the center so that when it's being lifted up the tongs will forcibly grab into the log, and to release the log you need to push the carrying bars down.  This will probably make more sense when I get a photo taken and posted.  It's simple yet ingenious.
     
    Mike Haasl
    master steward
    Posts: 5386
    Location: Northern WI (zone 4)
    1499
    hunting trees books food preservation solar woodworking
    • Likes 1
    • Mark post as helpful
    • send pies
    • Quote
    • Report post to moderator
    Ahh, maybe like this?
     
    David Huang
    pollinator
    Posts: 215
    86
    • Likes 1
    • Mark post as helpful
    • send pies
    • Quote
    • Report post to moderator
    Ha ha.  Great job Mike!  You found one and beat me to it.  Yup.  That's it exactly, but since I already took my photos I'm going to share them anyway.  ;)  
    DSC04829.JPG
    [Thumbnail for DSC04829.JPG]
    Here it is in the closed postion.
    DSC04831.JPG
    [Thumbnail for DSC04831.JPG]
    Here it is in the opened position.
     
    Mike Haasl
    master steward
    Posts: 5386
    Location: Northern WI (zone 4)
    1499
    hunting trees books food preservation solar woodworking
    • Mark post as helpful
    • send pies
    • Quote
    • Report post to moderator
    Made some more updates to the top post.  Took away the point ranges for quite a few of the items.  Otis probably just wants to know you can make a set of tongs that work, not that they're particularly pretty.

    Also added in charcoal or wood gasification conversions and solar panel mounting systems at the Iron level.  And a few dozen other small things.
     
    Talk sense to a fool and he calls you foolish. -Euripides A foolish tiny ad:
    holiday shopping for 2019
    https://permies.com/t/128446/holiday-shopping
    • Post Reply Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
    • New Topic
    Boost this thread!