Composting with neighbors too close

I know how to compost. I have not done it at this rental, because I have neighbors too close on each side, and they are all very much the " mow the lawn to 2 inches high every week" types and I already disturb them.
I really need to do some hot compost. What I need is a place to do it that won't make them say I'm attracting animals or making smells.

What I do NOT have to work with: Very much space, wood to build with, time to build something, animal free zones, areas that do not have heavy run off when it rain that are not planted garden beds already, strength to turn it, strength to dig it in.

What I do have to work with: Harder question. Lots of stuff that needs a good composting. Lots of wildlife that would LOVE to play in it including armadillos, possums woodchucks, mice and voles. Asst dumpster kill type items that may be abusable.

What I'd LOVE from y'all: Throw me a pile of ideas, so I can see if any of it joggles an idea out of my head of something I can do. I'm going blank on workable ideas, there has to be something I'm not thinking of. Throw me all the weird ones you can think up, you never know what might inspire my head :D

There's gotta be a way to do this...
Please help!

:D

I only do low-effort compost but I have some thoughts and ideas.

How much compost are we talking per day/per week? Number of people who eat in your household may be a useful approximation since I definitely couldn't quantify my kitchen scrap production. Can the compostable stuff you have be separated into different levels of "ick"ness -- kitchen scraps vs leaves? Do you need to compost human and/or pet waste?

If you have few enough people (I'm thinking up to four if you don't have a lot of scraps and 2-3 if you do -- for instance we have lots because we get dumpster food and process it, and we don't make stock) and are not composting human waste in addition to kitchen scraps, I want to put in a plug for a compost tumbler for the kitchen scraps + enough browns to keep them odor-free and a neat pile (contained by pallets?) for everything else that is not attractive to critters. I've never liked the idea of tumblers because they seem so puny (not to mention wasteful, with the new plastic) but we had to switch to one at my old place due to a neighborhood-wide rat problem and I was pleasantly surprised at how well it worked. We bought one new due to time and energy constraints, the 37-gallon one available under different brand names all over the place, partly because the double chamber and easy-to-use doors seemed essential and hard to DIY. We had 3 people using it. It just froze all winter and in the summer moved super fast, enough to empty both sides and start fresh for another fall/winter. If we were turning it or emptying it more often we likely could have emptied 3 halves, but just in the summer. It looked intentional and could be kept super close to the house (like seven feet from the back door), and it did drip but it wasn't gross, just led to a flush of growth in that area of the patio between the pavers.

We used wood shavings as the brown because we had a lot with few uses for them, but I imagine other browns could be used with good success. We only went through, ehhhhh, 2-5 loose gallons for the season? (Possibly your neighbors' dried lawn clippings would work?) After my experience with our tumbler, they're my top choice for small-yard composting. It DID smell in late August which could likely have been avoided with more conscientious wood shaving additions. After I added enough shavings it only took a few hours to a few days to return to not really smelling at all.

**Edit: I reread and saw you don't have time or wood to build something, sorry I didn't see that at first, but I will leave the parts I wrote about DIYing for future thread explorers. I put them all together here.** If you have access to 50-gallon drums I've seen them made into tumblers, and you could do 2 for the capability to switch and age plus have much more volume. If you don't want to use a tumbler, or have way too much volume for that to make sense, I'd probably recommend a pallet box guarded with hardware cloth all around, and just cold composting, because it would be such a pain to do hot without easy access. Not sure how essential the hot aspect is to your needs. But I'm sure hot compost is done in those all the time, with lots of effort (not my thing).

I don't have tips for human or pet waste in such a small and surveilled space, but I'm sure it could be done.

Hope this is somewhat helpful!

Without providing detail, I would keep in mind the appearance of the bins from the neighbors viewpoints.  The more you can operate in stealth mode, the better if not stretching your luck with neighbors is one of your goals.

2 people, lots of yard stuff, kitchen waste.
I had a tumbler, got rid of it when we moved. Too bulky to move.

I have a cold compost pile I throw non-invasive plants on, but I pulled a lot of invasives again today, and the kitchen scraps are building up badly, I usually bury them in the garden beds, but have had no flipping dirt in a while due to weather stuff. The soil in my beds would really LOVE some decent compost, not a bunch of stuff that's rotting while the plants are trying to grow. Amazing how bad the water retention is in this soil, even after lots of leaves and kitchen scraps added for 2 years.

Thank you, I'll think on that. I had forgotten about the tumbler, I got annoyed with it early on, went back to my piles. It was good for keeping it wet, I had to water my piles, but I clashed with it.
I'm thinking about the large plastic things I have around now...
Hm...
thank you :D

Hi  Pearl, I recently pulled up lots of coarse tall fescues and made a hot pile to turn them into something useful quickly. Here are some tricks and my reasons, maybe they will give you some ideas.

1. since I pulled up the whole plants by hand(no shredding), I let them wilt in the sun for a day.  Dessication made the leaf surface more permeable to microbes.

2. I put high nitrogen scraps in a trash can and dispersed them in water. The smaller the particles the more surface areas for microbes. Pet food, milk, coffee ground, flour are good candidates. Spray the slurry on brown materials while building the pile.

3. Build a tall mound. A round mound has the lowest surface area to volume ratio to reduce heat loss. I made the pile with hight to diameter ratio of about 1.2 since hot steam came up from the center. Cover the pile up with cardboards to retain heat and moisture.

4. I turned the pile when the temperature dropped or the height collapsed, whichever came first. I simply put my hand on top the pile to feel the heat. Did it once at the previous night and again in the following morning. For example, the one I am making right now started with a volume of 100 gallons on 9/13. The temperature reached 121F six inches down from center top on 9/15. I will turn it tomorrow morning regardless of the temperature since the height/diameter had dropped to 1:1, suggesting that the center had matted together and needed aeration.

5. It's too heavy to turn the pile like doing a stir fry. I found it easier to take it apart into two sections: the peripheral and bottom parts had lower temperature and the top and center part had higher temperature and lower moisture. I would reverse the positions and rebuild the pile, wetting down where necessary. For a pile of 1/3 to 1/2 cubic yard, this step took less than five minutes and the composting would also be even throughout the pile.

6. Repeat the steps 3-4 times untill the pile no longer heats back up and let age for a few more days. Depending on materials, temperature, volume etc, it could take 10 to 20 days with the volume reduced 50 -80% in my experience. Keep the pile covered to avoid leaching.

7. The hot compost at this stage would still be coarse in texture and coated with slimy microbes dead or alive. I usually partition the high nitrogen extracts from the high cellulose part by soaking the compost in water. The resulting tea was diluted and applied to a larger area and the rest of solid materials used in the garden beds. I grew potatoes directly in it before without any problem.

8. The heat from the hot composting will kill vegetations underneath. I usually took advantage of that to make new garden area. Leave some compost on and the seedlings would take over quickly.

I will take some pictures and measurements on the weed pile if you need more details. Happy composting!

Pearl, I just want to add something about using the rapid bacteria based hot compost ( Berkeley method). It is more effective in keeping the nitrogen and thus better to give it to living plants asap. If left exposed for a long time, the fertility will get lost; if rain/snow washes the N off in ground, it will burn off the soil organic matters. Now it's already fall and plants that still need boost of fertility are limited: cool season leafy greens, cool season grass, green manure and indoor plants. Among them I highly recommend radishes. If you leave the roots, nitrogen will be stored deep in ground for slow releasing next year.

The roller bin type composter is small, keeps rats out, and has very little smell.  It gets the compost done in a few weeks (less in the summer).

Downside - requires a lot from the humans.  Wants 5-10 rotations daily.  Won't work if the bins are overstuffed.  Needs a fairly careful balance of brown stuff and moisture.  One bin does two people who feed half the compost to the chickens or sheep and only use the bin for stuff that the chickens won't touch.  Without chickens, we would need three bins.  

The turning seems to be the hardest part.  It's quite easy to turn if well cared for, but if it's neglected or overstuffed, it is hard to turn and then people don't turn it, which makes it harder to turn which... vicious circle.

If there was some way to hook it up to a solar motor that could turn it for us, my life would be so much better.  

To deal with smell I usually cover my compost with grass clippings.
I end up growing squash or something in the pile the next year.
I think a pile of grass clippings looks nice too. Like a hay pile in a field.

Pearl, I had a very similar situation to you, ended up using bokashi for kitchen scraps (in buckets) and chipping the yard waste to use as mulch. The bokashi can be totally camouflaged, and if you want to run it throughout a cold winter you can do it in a garage (bucket inside a bucket). The only issue can be smell from drainage; I used to put a drainage valve in the main bucket and release the exudate when I needed it for a compost tea type thing, but it is stinky when you apply it, so I decided to focus more on comfrey tea and I moved the bucket down into the garden and just let it drain freely into a bed (I rotate every so often). But you could conceivably just drain it off and not apply it. It is not horribly stinky like cow manure or anaerobic swamp water, but it does have a smell if you start spraying it around. The normal drainage, however, you really have to be on top of it to smell it.
When the bucket is full, mix half and half with dirt (I use a large drilled garbage can) and some worms, water it, and let it sit. Usually a month or two is enough to get good compost. I know some people let the bokashi bucket itself sit for a long time but I don't bother. Keep in mind here we don't get a hard freeze, not sure how it works if you do.
But bokashi is a great solution for urban gardening with nosy neighbors- we are three people and make a lot of kitchen waste-- even with the rabbits eating all the raw stuff and the dog getting meaty/bone stuff, and diverting eggshells and coffee grounds, we still have plenty. I fill one of those big plastic buckets every month and a half or so, just in time for the bokashi-and-dirt barrel to be ready and spread on the garden.

I compost in the city, and empty my wet rabbit litter box shavings in it.   One thing that really helps cut the fresh odor down is a thin layer of coffee grounds (free bags from starbucks) before adding grass clippings or whatever as well.   Doesn't address the other components of your dilemma but might be a bit that fits and helps.  

Hi Pearl,
Those are certainly some restricting restrictions :) I only have one suggestion that seems to fit, because all the others would take require time or money or both. Could you let someone else compost it for you? Do you have a friend in the area who has more room or fewer restrictions on composting? Trade them the material for a portion of compost back? Or maybe post on craigslist or nextdoor or one of those places. Just tell people you have compost materials for free pickup, and you would just like some compost in return. You might need to be careful if they are composting types of things that you don't want in your garden... but it might be a way to still have it composted without bothering the neighbors.

I am no expert on composting, but specific to the smell issue, I have read from several people who are good at composting that if the smell is bad to us humans, it is usually from an unbalanced compost pile. They say that a compost pile that is balanced should have little smell or a good earthy smell. In my limited composting, this has been true for me in my region. Animals are a different thing altogether, they can smell so much better than us, and will be attracted to it regardless.

On the animal topic.
I have read on here that ammonia keeps some critters away,..
and adds nitrogen.

Instead of composting you can bury all of it. Dig a trench. As you have material throw it in and cover with the removed soil. Then extend the trench. If in your area it freezes, just toss in the bags (plastic) and when it warms up empty and cover them with dirt. Don't include any meat scraps in your compost.

Use grass clippings as a mulch around plants and in the walks. Same with leaves, mow them and spread them out.

I've got a hot composter as follows: https://www.greatgreensystems.com/product/green-johanna-330-litre-hot-composter/

I have no idea what type of hot composter may be available to buy where you are but if you can find something like the Green Johanna, I would say go for it. I have never noticed any smell with the lid closed. The biggest irritation is the fruit flies, who are loving the windfalls at the mo. However, I put straw or sheep's fleece (anything dry is good) over the fruit and that sorts the flies out.

You could also use a bokashi system to process more troublesome gifts from nature, though in my experience the bokashi compost still needs to go through a sealed hot composter before it is rat-proof. Which reminds me, the Green Johanna (and bins like it) are sealed so there is no rat ingress. It does make the bin harder to empty but it's good exercise 😊.

1.   Make compost pile however you want.
2.   Place sign over it that says "Compost"
3.    With Halloween approaching, go to a store and buy a fake skeleton and place an arm or leg (or both) awkwardly sticking out of the compost pile.

The neighbors should be perfectly fine with your compost pile.

Alternatively, maybe just get some of that fake grass carpet and cover the pile since they like grass so much.

Lots of good ideas here.
Let me suggest making weed tea.
It will stink but only when the lid is off.
If you aerate it with a basic aquarium pump, it shouldn't stink at all.
One barrel will process a lot of green weeds.

I have another thing to try, but no name for it.
Basically you get something heavy and preferably flat and stick what ever you have to compost under it.
You will attract worms and other beasties from the soil, the stuff will break down and most bigger animals can't get to it.
If you do it next to a bed or plant you want to feed,   the finished compost can be easily applied or left in place as side dressing.

This approach can be used with trench composting as well.
Rather than burying the materials with soil, you can cover the hole with a heavy lid, and add more matrial as you get it.
A lot of beasties will not notice it, but lining the hole with metal mesh can be effective against those who do.

I compost in an suburban situation. I always make sure to keep the compost well covered with something neutral smelling like wood chips, seagrass, sawdust, or grass clippings whenever I add something smelly like horse shit. Like at least a 6" layer over the top of everything. Soil and spent potting mix also works for this too. I then add a plastic sheet to further protect the heap, and contain in anything unpleasant.
Also NEVER put meat, fish or dairy scraps (whey is ok) in the compost which might attract rats or mice. That would definitely, and rightly, annoy your neighbours.
Keep the heap/ bin well inoculated with worms to break everything down quickly.
You could invest in a bokashi bin (or make your own) and pre-ferment all your kitchen scraps. Done properly bokashi additions to the compost will not smell.
Add effective microorganisms and or mushroom compost and leaf litter to the bin to innoculate it with a wide microbial community, again to help break things down quickly.
Use the compost to grow amazing fruits and veg, and share them with your neighbours to generate goodwill. You may even reach the point where they will willingly give your their grass clippings for use in the compost. .....As long as they are not sprayed)
Go to neighbourhood events... generate good will. Look out for ways you can be friendly to neighbours, or lend a hand when they need it.
All the best.

I love Janette's idea about being friendly to the neighbours (would be hard for me if they were of that kind).
Also Bokashi (apparently you can DIY) sounds like a good approach.

As a German, I wonder if there are no laws in place that give you the right to compost? Here composting is encouraged and some communities even give you subsidies for buying a composter.
Where I live properties are really small but everybody who wants has a compost. Of course, everybody tries to be respectful with odour and things they compost (no meat and cooked foods etc.).
Good luck!

Helen Butt wrote:I've got a hot composter as follows: https://www.greatgreensystems.com/product/green-johanna-330-litre-hot-composter/

This style of compost "bin" is very common in the UK and people use them regularly in our small gardens. Provided you compost correctly - and you've indicated that you know how to do so - they don't smell at all. I have found that they can provide a home for lots of tiny fruit flies but the lid usually ensures that they are mostly contained.

Whilst I generally don't approve of plastic use, these bins have often been at houses I've lived in and they do work exceptionally well. My current house has 3, two of which were clearly provided by the council at some point as their logo is embossed on the side. The sealed, dark-plastic construction of the bins heats up quickly in the summer and I have found that one or two is easily enough for kitchen scraps and some garden waste.

Another low-tech solution that works well is to build a simple, open heap using 3 pallets and 4 fence posts. Knock the fence posts into the ground in a square and then tie, or screw, the pallets to them forming an open-fronted|_| shape. The heap can be covered to protect it from the sun or rain using a piece of scrap ply, or a tarp, but often they cope just fine left exposed. I think the amount of air reaching a heap like this keeps it from going anaerobic and smelling. A second heap can be added to one side ( |_|_| ) which allows the compost, when full, to be turned easily into the new bay and the first bay re-filled.

Thought I would share my daughters experience. She lives in an old cottage with a very tiny courtyard style garden in a town, no car access. She leaves garden waste to mulch what beds she has, but uses Bokashi bins for all food waste. These she keeps in the kitchen, together theyre about the size of a large trash bin. There is no smell and it seems to cope with their needs (4 in the house). Plus the addition of the compost to the garden over the past couple of years improved the soil hugely. Just shows what can be done in an urban setting.

Smaller (indoor?) worm bin, or similar, for all kitchen related waste. That will deal with the smell and any potential accusations of vermin issues.

Standard heap for all yard waste that is not a noxious weed. It shouldn't attract critters or smell, and I'm not in a hurry with my compost so it can be cool and not need turning.

And then I have a black bin with a lid, and a few holes in the bottom for drainage. It sits in full sun, and up on a couple of blocks off the soil. Noxious stuff goes in there where it desiccates and thoroughly dies. At that point I either compost it or add it to a bonfire.  (Caveat - I make a lot less use of this now, as chickens devour pretty much anything that gets tossed in their run. It used to be a home for roots of bindweed, stinging nettle etc... I fill that bin maybe once over a season from the veggie garden.

Have you talked to your neighbors? Maybe they’d like that you garden and compost. Maybe they’d give you their grass clippings and leaves?
Maybe they’ve got a ten year old lad who’d like to earn a few bucks each week turning and moving your compost.