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The Kickstarter is now live

All further discussion can happen at

permies.com/kickstarter

It begins.  We've decided to try.  

Andres has been looking over the video and has even done a little bit of editing. To kinda get a feel for the sound and light quality, and what all we have.  

This event featured a bunch of instructors all building a bunch of different things simultaneously.  

One of the most important builds, was this very standard, 8 inch, pebble style j-tube.  A very normal rocket mass heater




We also built a 6 inch cob style j-tube rocket mass heater in a tiny house.  In this pic we are putting the pieces together at basecamp before putting the final product in place.




I think the big winner of the event was a Lorena style rocket cooktop.   A lorena style is a little different as the pot is exposed directly to the flames and gets heated on the sides as well as the bottom.  Really excellent for canning.  After the heat does its thing with the pot, the remaining heat goes to a standard cooktop.






A rocket heater (with no mass) was created for our rocket sauna.  This is the "cottage style".  






Mud build a new solar food dehydrator with a rocket assist - in case you are trying to dry food and night comes along.






We installed two commercial products.  The Liberator (USA) and the Gamera (Bulgaria).  Sky Huddleston, the owner of the company that makes the Liberator stopped by and helped us with installing both, and several other projects, including testing the quality of the exhaust.






We had a strong focus during this event for using "the five minute riser" - this is something that we want to test for longevity.  It works quite well, it costs a lot less and is a lot easier to acquire the materials.  










We also did a lot of experimenting with what we called "the juice box stratification".   The general idea was that there would be an 8-inch duct with a vertical cleanout, followed by a 4 inch vertical exhaust.   We felt this would make the whole system about 15% more efficient during the burn and twice as efficient when there was no burn.  




We also dabbled with some experiments with a kiln/forge.  We did manage to fire some clay object, and we melted aluminum.






And we put half a day into covering the basics





We are putting together a kickstarter video.  We need to get started on the kickstarter description.  Here is my first pass at the rewards:

$1 THANKS
       - includes a new eBook on RMH riser designs
$5 CANDY
$10 MOVIE streaming
$20 TINY-DOWNLOAD
$40 HD-DOWNLOAD
$65 PLANS
        - includes 3-d plans of several of the creations
$100 FULL-EVENT
          - name in the movie
          + 10 hours of video from the event
$400 PYRONAUT
$1000 ASSOCIATE PRODUCER
$2000 EXECUTIVE PRODUCER
$3000 SUPREME EXECUTIVE PRODUCER


Right now is when we are the most flexible.  So now is the time for all sorts of suggestions.  

We are also open to the idea of what would be great for earlybird stuff.  
COMMENTS:
 
pollinator
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Any idea of how long the finished movie will be?
 
steward
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T Blankinship wrote:Any idea of how long the finished movie will be?



We're shooting for two hours.
 
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At the $100 plus level, an additional booklet on tips, tricks and pitfalls would be fabulous (eBook would work for me).  At first look any RMH looks easy to do and that any amateur can knock one out in a day or two but as one gets into it, it is a complex engineering and thermal dynamics puzzle.  A compendium/ companion book would do it for me.
 
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I contributed to the SKIP kickstarter - not because of SKIP, but for all the other bonuses. It was too good not to kick in. I'm really keen to get this RMH one, but would like the bonuses to be different to SKIP so that I can get more bang for my buck.

Lol "shooting for two hours"
 
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Consider using “caged” 2+ sized granite gravel for thermal mass. Ive noticed that even in the dead of winter it absorbs sun heat really fast when everything else is still cold from ambient temps. By caged I mean mesh of a sufficient size to keep the 2+ gravel in. You can make the shape whatever you’d like. These cages of rocks (Gabions) are used in Afghanistan for erosion control in intermittent rivers and creeks.
 
paul wheaton
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Paul Fookes wrote:At the $100 plus level, an additional booklet on tips, tricks and pitfalls would be fabulous (eBook would work for me).  At first look any RMH looks easy to do and that any amateur can knock one out in a day or two but as one gets into it, it is a complex engineering and thermal dynamics puzzle.  A compendium/ companion book would do it for me.



Did you read the draft book that came with the last kickstarter?
 
paul wheaton
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Roy Sullivan wrote:I contributed to the SKIP kickstarter - not because of SKIP, but for all the other bonuses. It was too good not to kick in. I'm really keen to get this RMH one, but would like the bonuses to be different to SKIP so that I can get more bang for my buck.



We are already putting together a list of earlybird goodies.


Lol "shooting for two hours"



I think it will be challenging to compress something into two hours.
 
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Hey Paul, definitely interested but would like to ask if an "other than Kickstarter" way to pay could be provided...for those of us that remember Kickstarter's "support" of a certain 3 letter organization that seems to have grifted them and many others and now has key "leadership" in legal trouble.  Giving Kickstarter more $$$ almost had me skip the SKIP one...food for thought.
 
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I wouldn’t mind if the movie level ended up being a 3 or 4 hour movie. 😉 I’m (personally) especially interested in the RMH for a little bit of heating info but a lot of cooking info. (Not a lot of heating hours required in my climate, but I would love to figure out this off-grid, efficient and earth-friendly cooking thing.) Thanks for asking for and listening to input!
 
Roy Sullivan
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Lol "shooting for two hours"

I think it will be challenging to compress something into two hours.



I thought you were punning
 
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With much of the planet trying to wean themselves off Russian natural gas, the timing on this is excellent. I'm pondering how we can get the resources all over.

Can you build RMH's from a bombed out Russian tank and remains of bombed out buildings?

 
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Love the whole idea. Would like to see more about Uncle
Mud's solar food dehydrator with a rocket assist.   Also, agree with Roy Sullivan's idea of having different bonus' for this that for the previous kickstarter's. Have those already, would like something I don't already have. But planning on contributing anyway.
 
paul wheaton
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K. Hanner wrote:Hey Paul, definitely interested but would like to ask if an "other than Kickstarter" way to pay could be provided...for those of us that remember Kickstarter's "support" of a certain 3 letter organization that seems to have grifted them and many others and now has key "leadership" in legal trouble.  Giving Kickstarter more $$$ almost had me skip the SKIP one...food for thought.



Do you have a suggestion?
 
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Paul.

I have some still of the event if you would like them.  Let me know how you would like me to transfer them to you.  It was a pleasure being there with everyone and I learned a great deal.

Thanks Louis G Weiner
 
paul wheaton
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Louis Weiner wrote:Paul.

I have some still of the event if you would like them.  Let me know how you would like me to transfer them to you.  It was a pleasure being there with everyone and I learned a great deal.

Thanks Louis G Weiner



Any chance you can put them on a google drive folder?  

 
K. Hanner
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paul wheaton wrote:

K. Hanner wrote:Hey Paul, definitely interested but would like to ask if an "other than Kickstarter" way to pay could be provided...for those of us that remember Kickstarter's "support" of a certain 3 letter organization that seems to have grifted them and many others and now has key "leadership" in legal trouble.  Giving Kickstarter more $$$ almost had me skip the SKIP one...food for thought.



Do you have a suggestion?



Whatever is easiest for you - maybe a Zelle payment?  I've seen some other ways to pay for the PDC's and such - maybe replicate the different levels like that and then add names to the appropriate Kickstarter level once paid?  Hate to create work for anyone...BUT, I don't want to "be angry at bad guys" either.
 
paul wheaton
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If the kickstarter is a success, the movie will be for sale here on permies when the editing is complete.
 
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Are there plans at any level for hard copy DVDs? Maybe I missed seeing them mentioned, but I am willing to pay more for physical DVDs, or support at a higher level, something along those lines. I’ll be supporting no matter what, but just my two centavos!
 
paul wheaton
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Not many people buy DVDs these days.  And it used to be that I would have to buy a minimum of a thousand to get "the right kind."

Instead, I hope to, in time, set stuff up so that somebody will offer the movie on a DVD after it is all done.  So you might get it later than everybody else, but you would get it as a physical dvd.  I think.


 
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paul wheaton wrote:If the kickstarter is a success, the movie will be for sale here on permies when the editing is complete.



"IF the kickstarter is a success...!"  Pretty funny Paul!  Last few I've watched were only funded at 1897% level!!!

Anyway, I figured I could get it later from Permies - was interested in supporting and participating in the funding, sans Kickstarter though.  Like one of the others mentioned, the fun of it is the all the "glory" or "bacon, cheese and onions" add-ons.  If not an option, then so be it; like voting, might just have to hold my nose since that's the system we've got.  Might still support anyway depending on what's included.  Thanks for the consideration.

 
paul wheaton
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K. Hanner wrote:"IF the kickstarter is a success...!"  Pretty funny Paul!  Last few I've watched were only funded at 1897% level!!!



And it is possible that folks won't be as keen the next time.
 
K. Hanner
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paul wheaton wrote:

K. Hanner wrote:"IF the kickstarter is a success...!"  Pretty funny Paul!  Last few I've watched were only funded at 1897% level!!!



And it is possible that folks won't be as keen the next time.



Possible but not probable... Your ability to continue to spread the tenets of permaculture is not in doubt.  C'mon Duke, you'll do fine!  Just don't do a Kickstarter on the Willow Feeder alone, that might go down the crapper!  ;)

BTW, heard you on Jack Spirko's "The Survival Podcast" - good interview!  With 200K listeners, you should get a significant bump.

Keep up the good work - those of us still stuck in the rat race are dependent on you guys to keep us focused, provide advice, expertise and support until we can execute our own "exit plan".  
 
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What about a parallel "Permiestarter" campaign in the digital marketplace.  People can support on Kickstarter (and kickstarter gets their cut) or they can click a link and go to permies and back the project through the digital marketplace.  

Then people can set up affiliate codes for the permies.com side of the project to share it around the world.  The hard-as-hell part would be collecting the data needed to fulfill the non-kickstarter backers when it's all said and done.
 
Leif Ing
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paul wheaton wrote:Not many people buy DVDs these days.  And it used to be that I would have to buy a minimum of a thousand to get "the right kind."

Instead, I hope to, in time, set stuff up so that somebody will offer the movie on a DVD after it is all done.  So you might get it later than everybody else, but you would get it as a physical dvd.  I think.



Good point, I just got the World Domination Gardening set on DVD, but I’m an oddball and not afraid to admit it!

Maybe instead of DVDs, a thumb drive could be offered for an extra amount? I’m not a big fan of downloads or streaming personally due to at times having limited/slow bandwidth.
 
Leif Ing
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Mike Haasl wrote:What about a parallel "Permiestarter" campaign in the digital marketplace.  People can support on Kickstarter (and kickstarter gets their cut) or they can click a link and go to permies and back the project through the digital marketplace.  

Then people can set up affiliate codes for the permies.com side of the project to share it around the world.  The hard-as-hell part would be collecting the data needed to fulfill the non-kickstarter backers when it's all said and done.



I’d rather support through permies than Kickstarter, and deny them a cut if possible. They don’t represent me in many things. Maybe when the KS campaign launches and the early bird email goes out, set up a thread on here for pledges and levels. When the KS campaign is over, pledges could be sent through PayPal or even better the Strike app. Strike would be cheaper and could pay in dollars or Bitcoin, so more would actually make it to Paul and not some other company I don’t care about. A purple mooseage would work for sending email and street address for physical rewards…

Thoughts? Would like Paul to get the best percentage possible!
 
Mike Haasl
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I think the digital marketplace "items" would be the whole package of goodies for each dollar level.  Might need one for Early Bird and another for later on.  Then when/if the funding goals are met, the items are added to the digital thread so everyone who bought that item then has access.  The movie would be added once it's completed.  If it isn't funded then Paul would have to do a refund.  A nice feature of that is that the money would come in as the kickstarter proceeds so if it's fully funded early on, the movie editing or other costs could commence sooner.
 
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paul wheaton wrote:Not many people buy DVDs these days.  And it used to be that I would have to buy a minimum of a thousand to get "the right kind."

Instead, I hope to, in time, set stuff up so that somebody will offer the movie on a DVD after it is all done.  So you might get it later than everybody else, but you would get it as a physical dvd.  I think.




I'm one of those weird folks who still prefer DVD's to streaming. Not only slow bandwith but have lost digital music and other content when servie or company went under or just stopped offering that service.

Also lost like 20 years of M.E.N.  when the thumb drive they provided failed after about 5 uses.
So I'd definitely be interested in the DVD. Already purchased the 8 DVD set for RMH.
 
K. Hanner
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Mike Haasl wrote:I think the digital marketplace "items" would be the whole package of goodies for each dollar level.  Might need one for Early Bird and another for later on.  Then when/if the funding goals are met, the items are added to the digital thread so everyone who bought that item then has access.  The movie would be added once it's completed.  If it isn't funded then Paul would have to do a refund.  A nice feature of that is that the money would come in as the kickstarter proceeds so if it's fully funded early on, the movie editing or other costs could commence sooner.



Mike - Thanks for "jumping on the grenade"...I wasn't about to try and tell you all how to proceed as I'm not part of the inner sanctum.  I didn't think of the "permiestarter" monies coming in immediately, but a great point - might even get enough from the Permie community to fully fund the project without any KS funds!  That would get things going at light speed early.

Anyway, hope you all can work it out!  
 
paul wheaton
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Mike Haasl wrote:What about a parallel "Permiestarter" campaign in the digital marketplace.  People can support on Kickstarter (and kickstarter gets their cut) or they can click a link and go to permies and back the project through the digital marketplace.  

Then people can set up affiliate codes for the permies.com side of the project to share it around the world.  The hard-as-hell part would be collecting the data needed to fulfill the non-kickstarter backers when it's all said and done.



I know that we have plans to add crypto and other stuff to permies.  And maybe someday we can then host our own fundraising stuff.

 
paul wheaton
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Leif Ing wrote:
Maybe instead of DVDs, a thumb drive could be offered for an extra amount? I’m not a big fan of downloads or streaming personally due to at times having limited/slow bandwidth.



For the 177 hour stuff, we were contacted by a guy who said he was gonna sell thumb drives of it.  So we put a lot of time and expense into getting him a copy of the HD stuff.  And never heard from him again.  

We did a thumb drive thing once and about half the people put up the actual coin.  So I got kinda burned on that.  And it took a lot of work.  So I'm not super keen on doing it again.
 
paul wheaton
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Hopefully, in a day or two, we will share our list of a dozen things for the earlybird (we currently have 11 - but we are brainstorming and might still come up with at least one more).

 
paul wheaton
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It is super critically important to me to infect millions of brains with rocket mass heater stuff.  So as my mind buzzes with how to do that, I keep coming back to the idea that kickstarter stuff does seem to reach more people.   Further, I will be emailing 105,000 people about this.  For the SKIP kickstarter, I emailed about 100,000 and 2,575 backed the kickstarter.  Why wasn't it closer to something like 80,000?  What does it take to get a person to go from not backing, to backing?  how heavy do I need to load THANKS and CANDY?  How heavy do I need to load THANKS and CANDY so that people will share links to it and we get a half a million backers?  

After a few hours of pounding, here is what I have come up with so far

$1 THANKS
   - a new 30 page eBook on RMH riser designs
   - the short movie "Cooking with a Rocket Oven"
   - the short movie "Care and Feeding of a Rocket Mass Heater"
   - the short movie "12 Rocket Mass Heaters at Wheaton Labs"
   - the short movie "Rocket Mass Heater Season Extender"
   - "Truly Passive Greenhouse Movie" Part 1: Design
   - 24 podcast review of "Desert or Paradise" by Sepp Holzer
   - 4 hours of content from the 177
   - “Kickstarter Backer” icon on permies.com by your name
   - Cool public thanks

$5 CANDY
   - the full movie "Fire Science"
   - the full movie "Building a Pebble Style Rocket Mass Heater"
   - the full movie "Rocket Ovens"
   - Access to the Secret Inner Circle Forum
   - + Everything in THANKS


 
paul wheaton
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Here is the first draft for a kickstarter movie



And here are my notes on this pass:

0:03  i want to somehow show the previous kickstarters.  make it seem
amazing!  And extra emphasis on rockety stuff.

0:16 an we show dead fish in the water?  Barrels of green glowing
toxic waste? And maybe the top left corner can be a coal plant filling
the top of the screen with smoke?  To pull it off, the natural gas
collector might need to shift to the bottom left a bit and ...  I
think natural gas harvesting is often next door to oil pumps - so
maybe add an oil pump thing next to it instead of a tower.  Usually
the tower is to burn off excess natural gas instead of saving it.
Actual natural gas harvesting stuff just looks like giant pipes going
into the ground.

0:23 for individual problems, how about "more heat for zero money"?
Maybe leave out the planet and the outside solarium view.

0:27 the text at the bottom would be excellent to follow the text from 0:23.

0:27  I think we need to see a wood feed kinda behind the woman.
Maybe in this case, the bricks are over the wood feed showing that the
fire is currently out.  Also, if she loses the blanket then she will
appear to be even warmer - maybe the blanket can be draped over the
edge of the couch away from her.

0:31 cool!  she's reading the skip book!  :)

0:35 the planet here is good!

0:36 rather than the gas flames, electric plug and hand with a stick.
Maybe this text

eliminate
  all coal plants and related pollution/problems
  climate change problems
  nearly all fracking
massive reduction in energy based war


1:43 can we nudge up "is expensive!"?


 
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For reasons, I am contemplating running this kickstarter for just 14 days instead of the full 30.  I wonder if anybody else has any thoughts about this.

Click on the thumbs up for this post if you think 14 days is better!
 
paul wheaton
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Click on the thumbs up for this post if you think a 30 day kickstarter is better than a 14 day kickstarter!
 
paul wheaton
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Click on the thumbs up for this post if you think a 30 day kickstarter is about the same as a 14 day kickstarter.  Meh. What-evs.
 
master pollinator
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I could be wrong, but it seems with Kickstarters there's a lot of excitement and pledging early, then it goes quiet, then there's a lot more last-minute pledging or increased pledging at the end  - probably stretch goals being reached affects that, as well as last-minutism and "wait till i see what I can afford this month". It kinda makes sense to cut out the middle bit and keep the momentum high. That should also increase the likelihood of Kickstarter recommending the campaign to others. Also possibly a little easier for staff - trying to keep everyone excited for a whole month is hard work!

But I can see the argument for a longer timeframe, too. A longer campaign means more time for folk outside the forum to discover the Kickstarter, more time for those who initially pledged low to increase their pledge. Maybe my vote should have been  "What-evs"!
 
paul wheaton
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Jane Mulberry wrote:I could be wrong, but it seems with Kickstarters there's a lot of excitement and pledging early, then it goes quiet, then there's a lot more last-minute pledging or increased pledging at the end  - probably stretch goals being reached affects that, as well as last-minutism and "wait till i see what I can afford this month". It kinda makes sense to cut out the middle bit and keep the momentum high. That should also increase the likelihood of Kickstarter recommending the campaign to others. Also possibly a little easier for staff - trying to keep everyone excited for a whole month is hard work!

But I can see the argument for a longer timeframe, too. A longer campaign means more time for folk outside the forum to discover the Kickstarter, more time for those who initially pledged low to increase their pledge. Maybe my vote should have been  "What-evs"!



Exactly.  The big lull in the middle.  
 
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You could include a link in the top right corner of the YouTube video that goes to a playlist of all your previous Kickstarter videos; I would suggest having a greater ratio of goodies at the $5 level than the $1 level, like twice as many at $5; if you cut the campaign to 14 days there may be pledges that are missed for those who need to wait to see if they have the money. I think you normally have stretch goals at every $10k right? What about making those every $20k instead so it's easier to manage?
 
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