somebody stole my credit card info; i have to pay for it; permaculture solutions

I got an email showing a new charge on my card.  I called the card company minutes later to say "that wasn't me."  So my card is destroyed and I am assured that the charge is removed.  

This morning I woke up to a new email to say that my "request" to have the charges reversed was denied because it is actually a debit card.  Since the amount "charged" was less than my balance, that proves that the person doing the charge knew that that amount was available - thus the only person that could do it is me.  

About $100.

Every day seems to have little challenges like this.  Little charges, big charges ...   human beings behaving very poorly so they can harvest a few more dollars.  The list is ridiculously huge.  Compound it all with inflation stuff.

My guess is that this shit, and similar shit is flooding everybody.  Each decade the crime gets a buffet of new twists.

What is the solution? How can there be decency and peace?  I have a long list of ideas, but the #1 thing my brain keeps coming back to is gertitude.

That sucks, sorry man.  Not a complete solution because we are all to whatever degree enmeshed in the world as it is, but it remains nonetheless true that all of the world's problems can be solved in a garden.

At any given time, you either:
a) Have at least $100 in your account
or
b) Do not have at least $100 in your account.

That's a binary choice. I have a one in two chance of proving I'm you by flipping a coin. I fear this is about as much as I can say without violating the be nice rule.

I wish you luck in getting someone at your bank or the card issuer to see reason and resolve this.

When I first got a Debit Card I thought it was the greatest thing since sliced bread.

During Covid, we did not go to town so my debit card was not used and went away.

I use credit cards exclusively and have them set up on bank draft so they get paid in full each month and it has been that way for years.

We recently were shocked when we were denied an online purchase.

When I called the credit card company I was told my limit was $500.00.

When I said my card said my credit limit was $_ _, 000.00 the credit card company said yes that was the max I could charge, but not at one time.

How do people buy cars from these new online car sellers?  I wasn't trying to buy a car, just a lawnmower.

Anne Miller wrote:When I called the credit card company I was told my limit was $500.00.

When I said my card said my credit limit was $_ _, 000.00 the credit card company said yes that was the max I could charge, but not at one time.

How do people buy cars from these new online car sellers?  I wasn't trying to buy a car, just a lawnmower.

That's crazy that your purchase limit is $500. I can easily go over that just buying groceries for the month! (We shop largely at a local discount grocery store, and stock up for the month in one trip). I just paid my property taxes with my credit card--it was just over $2,600. My credit card sent me an alert that I'd spent that much (I think I set up alerts for any purchase over $1000). I've never encountered a problem where I couldn't pay for something with my card.

As for buying a car, our credit limit was only like $7,000 at the time. We bought the car with a check, since it was just over $15,000. I think a lot of people, however, just make payments on their cars, rather than actually buying them outright.

I would speak to your credit card and see if they can increase your purchase limit (or whatever it's called). Five hundred dollars is a pretty small amount in today's economy! If they can't increase the amount, maybe switch to a different card? I've only ever had Discover, but it's treated me well in the 20 years I've had it!

Nicole, there was more going on with that purchase is my suspicion.

Since the purchase included free delivery which would be a 200-mile trip, I feel the company that I wanted to purchase from had the Credit card company deny the purchase.

Dear hubby keeps wanting to take a trip and I want that purchase to be all-inclusive will the credit card company turn that down?  I doubt that we will take that trip as it is just a dream.

We built the house where we live with credit card purchases on that same card.

You may be right about the payment plans for big purchases.  The lawnmower offered a payment plan.  I have never done payment plans so I don't know.

I have been with that credit card company for way over 20 years.

Here the banks recommend we phone before a big purchase or travel somewhere new so they know it's us and don't lock the card.  

They have an algorithm for what qualifies as normal behaviour.   Without,  we wouldn't get protection from stolen cards... except the system isn't perfect.

paul wheaton wrote:I got an email showing a new charge on my card.  I called the card company minutes later to say "that wasn't me."  So my card is destroyed and I am assured that the charge is removed.  

This morning I woke up to a new email to say that my "request" to have the charges reversed was denied because it is actually a debit card.  Since the amount "charged" was less than my balance, that proves that the person doing the charge knew that that amount was available - thus the only person that could do it is me.  

About $100.

Every day seems to have little challenges like this.  Little charges, big charges ...   human beings behaving very poorly so they can harvest a few more dollars.  The list is ridiculously huge.  Compound it all with inflation stuff.

My guess is that this shit, and similar shit is flooding everybody.  Each decade the crime gets a buffet of new twists.

What is the solution? How can there be decency and peace?  I have a long list of ideas, but the #1 thing my brain keeps coming back to is gertitude.

I would ask to speak to someone else and I would call and write letters until they agreed to take care of this.  That policy is absurd.  I would also change banks as soon as a) they made it right, or b) I exhausted myself trying to get it resolved.

I think the solution is one that is being forced upon us.  I see a return to gardens, raising animals, bartering, and people doing all they can to only interact inside their own small communities.  You know, permaculture.

I have cancelled three credit cards this year over phony charges….all small amounts.   The smaller the charge, the less likely it will be noticed.  The smaller the charge, the more likely you will have money to cover it.  If the offending party is hitting 100,000 accounts, then they win big even if the charge is only $10.00.

r ranson wrote:Here the banks recommend we phone before a big purchase or travel somewhere new so they know it's us and don't lock the card.  

They have an algorithm for what qualifies as normal behaviour.   Without,  we wouldn't get protection from stolen cards... except the system isn't perfect.

This is exactly what the credit card company advised me to do for my next large purchase.

Trace said, "I would ask to speak to someone else and I would call and write letters until they agreed to take care of this.

I also agree with Trace.  I wouldn't just accept that the credit card company rejected the request for a refund.

I would ask for more information.  

Since the card was a debit card was the charge a debit or a credit card transaction? Was the charge made online or in person?  If in person, was I in that location at the time of purchase?

I once had a charge on my card from Skype.  I told the credit card company that I never heard of Skype and had not used that service.

Our debit and credit cards are set up to give us notification of any charge over $.50, because we had a series of tiny hits, more than a decade ago. When I went in to the bank (you can't be 'accidentally disconnected', involuntarily transferred, or get stuck only talking to a damn computer, if you're standing in front of them) to ask what to do, they suggested the notifications to not only quickly alert me, but also hinted that it would prove to them that I mean business, about my account security. But, even with those tiny charges - they were less than $5 - they immediately refunded them, without any hassle. So, we've set that up on all our accounts, ever since - and it has served us well. A few months ago, John's PayPal account was hijacked, all the communications were switched to French, and the password changed. At the time his PayPal account was directly linked with his debit card (none of our accounts are, anymore!), and every time he tried to fight the charges through PayPal (in English) they'd immediately switch to French. The charges were about $75. Not huge, but definitely enough to set us off kilter for a couple weeks. After a couple days of trying to fix it via PayPal, he gave up and contacted the bank, who immediately refunded it and began their own battle with PayPal.
Our bank isn't perfect, by any means, and in many ways they really piss us off - but, in this way, they've always had our backs.

Composting your enemies seems a little overboard perhaps?

I would pursue it further.  They have resolved fraud on my cards and all I have is debit.  The amount isn't the issue, any amount of fraud needs to be resolved.  Personally, I believe Permaculture is already helping and will continue to help.  I send positive energy outward to help speed along our collective shift towards good.

a few weeks ago i stupidly fell for a fishing scam (the scammers impersonated a hotel where i had a reservation) and i ended up having to cancel 2 credit cards.
the card i have with a credit union bent over backwards to help me even though i was on the road when this business all happened and had to get a new card express shipped to me.

i have canceled my accounts with the Big Banks You've Heard Of, and keep only my credit union: i can call up and talk to a person. I know them, they know me. their app is old and ugly, and it works, and i don't get fancy points on my card, but i know that when i have trouble i can call up and talk to Reuben, who will sort me out. I truly think that credit unions are not only the only good banking option still left out there, but also kinda sorta permie: community, real people. if you have access to one, i would recommend it highly.

While I have only positive feelings toward credit unions, I extend my positive feelings to small, small town banks …. There are still a few out there.

I once called up my bank about a loan for some property….about $14,000.00.   The bank president said sure ….consider it in your account ( note: president…not loan officer).   Two weeks later, and after I have purchased the property,  I am in the bank making a deposit, and he asks me to come to his office to sign the papers.

Paul, I wouldn't let it slide so easily. The scammers intentionally charge an amount they expect will go through (without hitting a balance/credit limit). When it does go through, they know for at least a short time, the card, code, PIN, etc.. is good, and will then try a higher priced purchase.

Kenneth Elwell wrote:Paul, I wouldn't let it slide so easily. The scammers intentionally charge an amount they expect will go through (without hitting a balance/credit limit). When it does go through, they know for at least a short time, the card, code, PIN, etc.. is good, and will then try a higher priced purchase.

This is exactly - almost word for word - what my bank told me, all those years ago.

Time is the critical factor.  Under the Fair Credit Billing Act Act (12 C.F.R. § 1026.12).  With ATM or debit cards, you must act quickly to avoid full liability for unauthorized charges when your card is lost or stolen. Under the federal Electronic Fund Transfer Act, your liability is:

$0 if you report the loss or theft of the card immediately and before any unauthorized charges are made.
up to $50 if you notify the bank within two business days after you realize the card is missing
up to $500 if you fail to notify the bank within two business days after you realize the card is missing, but do notify the bank within 60 days after your bank statement is mailed to you listing the unauthorized withdrawals, or
unlimited if you fail to notify the bank within 60 days after your bank statement is mailed to you listing the unauthorized withdrawals. (15 U.S. Code § 1693g).
If you can convince the bank that your notification failure was due to extenuating circumstances, it must extend the notification timeline for a "reasonable period."

Note that if the theft involved only your ATM or debit card number—and not the card—you're not liable for unauthorized transactions if you report them within 60 days after your statement is sent to you. It's important to review your statements.

I work with three different banks for different commercial reasons, and all three have an 'alert over x amount' feature.  They're worth their weight in gold.  

I'm not sure if it is still valid, but years ago, in the earlyish days of online commerce, American Express was the first to offer some fairly unique protection.  You could generate a single use card number for a specific amount (just make sure it was enough to cover your purchase plus any taxes, fees, shipping, etc.) and use that for the purchase.  Then if that transaction was compromised, the dirty scumbags didn't have your true card info and subsequent attempts to charge to that single-use number set off alarm bells.

Things have improved since those days in terms of purchase liability, but certainly aren't perfect.