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!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! what if the cost of food goes up 10x?

paul wheaton

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(I'm gonna delete anything with the slightest whiff of politics. I am starting this thread to talk about solutions, not being angry at bad guys)

I am currently on the phone with andres. He is ... well .... I wanna say "concerned", but it is closer to "freaking the fuck out" ... Maybe I need a word between these two.

Andres has several topics "concerning" him. Political, climate stuff, economic changes .... he isn't weeping right now, but i suspect that that is on the agenda for later.

Andres wants all of everybody in the world to know about our big gardening resources. And then this discussion can move on to "what if?"

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What if the price of food goes up 10x?

Naturally, if you have a humble home and a large garden, this isn't such a big deal. In fact, with a humble home and a large garden, all of politics becomes small and far away.

I guess some of us are ready. I am growing enough food to feed 20 people. Most of it can be harvested through the winter.

I get the impression that there is huge concern for people that are currently not growing food. I feel like I have been trying to persuade people to grow their own food for decades, so I want to direct those people to all the stuff I have shared over the last couple of decades. I do feel the best stuff is my most recent "automatic backyard food pump."

Andrés Bernal

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Im fiiine :) very glad of my life choices living in the deep jungle growing my food.

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John F Dean

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My experiences have led me to believe there is a huge difference in perspectives between those on small farms and people living in metropolitan areas I regard to preparing for a crisis …especially one that is long term. Even more surprising to me is how similar the thinking is between the mega farmers and city dwellers. My experience has been that people operating huge farms (1000+ acres) seldom have a vegetable garden.

I have had far too many people who live in large metropolitan areas brag to me that they are prepared for a disaster because they keep a 3 to 7 day supply of food in their house. There is no consideration of years. As a long time homesteader, I have at least 500 quart jars of food as well as a freezer. Add to that my wife’s baking supplies. A bag of flour to us is a minimum of 25 pounds and normally 50. No, we do not see ourselves as prepping. This was our norm long before I heard the word Prepper.

Getting around to what I see as your point, our 11 acres has regularly produced an ample amount of food for us. Last year we expanded our sunchokes, lambs quarters, and berries. This year we are expanding rubarb, horseradish, and kale. Our biggest frustration is grains. Growing, harvesting, and processing them has been difficult for us. I am trying sunflowers and corn again this year. Maybe I can be more successful.

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paul wheaton

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Now we are getting into my favorite kind of conversation.

I feel like the core is:

- gardening and not farming (farming choices are very different)

- things that can be harvested in deep winter

Growing a high calories per acre crop is easy. But it becomes difficult if you have to have a lot of discipline to harvest at the right moment. And if you miss that moment, it quickly drops to zero calories per acre. So a large harvest window is handy.

My starter staples are:

sunchokes
walking onions
annual kale (which reseeds itself)

Winter keeper apples are good. They have a large harvest window.

This year we are planting skirret and parsnips. Both can be harvested through the winter.

Winter squash is okay. Just pick it and put it inside and it will keep for several months.

Burra Maluca

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My orange tree gives us fruit for nearly six months of the year. No storage required.

I'm very keen to grow a range of fruit trees/bushes/plants that will give me as close as I can get to a continuous fruit supply without the hassle of having to store it. And I'm also learning that to do that I need to keep the fruit trees small so I can have more of them in a smaller space, and also so that I can harvest all of the fruit easily with no waste.

I have perennial 'kale' that seeds freely, which I can harvest all year round.

The prickly pears are super reliable and give pads to eat in the early summer and then tons of fruit later. I've just given a whole load of pads to a friend who is currently living on milk, cheese, eggs and whatever he can lay his hands on (he does have rice and beans in stock). He doesn't have the money to fence off an area that the goats can't reach, but I suggested a spot that is too dry and stony to grow anything else that the goats can't access and he's planted them there. I'm hoping that when they've grown a bit they will able to supplement his diet significantly. I don't really have the energy to grow surplus food to give to people, but it's easy to share young plants and cuttings and encourage people to grow their own. I might be able to trade any surplus I do have for milk and cheese.

I still have my GAMCOD bed that is doing well, though it doesn't count as GAMCOD any more as I was given some goat poop and I put that on a couple of months ago.

I'm on the hunt for a couple of lovage plants as I think they will make basic home-cooked meals much tastier, and they live for about 15 years. Much cheaper than buying celery, and easier than growing celery every year too!

I'm not sure I'll be able to grow enough calories to feed me completely, but my aim is to grow what I can that will complement the cheapest foods I can buy.

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John Weiland

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John F Dean wrote:My experiences have led me to believe there is a huge difference in perspectives between those on small farms and people living in metropolitan areas I regard to preparing for a crisis …especially one that is long term. Even more surprising to me is how similar the thinking is between the mega farmers and city dwellers. My experience has been that people operating huge farms (1000+ acres) seldom have a vegetable garden.
........... Our biggest frustration is grains. Growing, harvesting, and processing them has been difficult for us. I am trying sunflowers and corn again this year. Maybe I can be more successful.

I would think both corn and wheat (certain types) would grow well in your area, but dried corn would be the easiest to recover as a grind-ready grain. Threshing of small grains can be an impediment to wide adoption unless the time and/or resources exist to do so. We are in a historical bread basket of wheat and barley production, but getting a good crop and finally cleaned grain is not an easy endeavor. But I'm a bread and pasta addict like many and it's hard to reduce that in the diet.

Also, I agree with the observation that many operating huge farms seldom have a garden. The difference between them and the myriad city dwellers is the knowledge of what to do if one *needs* to grow their own food. Most big growers could still do this fine. That said, my cousins who were born into a moderately large farm in the 1960s an 1970s certainly knew how to utilize a garden, but just seemed to want to join in with the rest of the nation in indulging in the convenience of store-bought food. Fortunately, they already some years back started gardening again just on the realization of the food quality they were missing.

For my wife and I, we've been fortunate to interact with several of the local farmer's market producers here on the North Dakota-Minnesota border. Occasionally we are gifted with extra produce they have at the end of the fall and this excess typically goes into the root cellar.....where harvest can be observed regarding who stores well and who doesn't. I've been impressed and surprised at times to discover that some items we deliberately planted for storage do not store as well as some of what we freely obtained from a local producer. So that allows us to learn from them just what varieties or landrace selections they are using towards that end. This year we hope to add more cabbage, beets, and carrots to supplement the annual staples of potatoes, chard, kale, peppers, tomatoes, onions/garlic, squash, green beans (this year, maybe plant dry cranberry beans again), and eggplant. Hoping for good dehydrating weather when the time comes as well and grateful that the chest freezers don't need powering (much) when winter up here arrives.

“The most important decision we make is whether we believe we live in a friendly or hostile universe.”― Albert Einstein

M Ljin

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This makes me think maybe I should start a pseudo-GAMCOD.

I can guess what I’ll be doing…talking all my townspeople’s ears off about how tasty acorns and nettles and wild parsnip and dandelions are even though no one is listening. Maybe milkweed would be a better one to start. I don’t like them as much as a vegetable, but they seem more popular for people. People don’t even want to hear about ramps most of the time!

Another parsnip tip—they sometimes grow as triennials if they don’t reach full size in the second year, in case anyone finds this information to be useful…

One can never be too kind to oneself or others.

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Anne Miller

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If the cost of food goes up 10x maybe my income will too.

If not maybe I will go on a starvation diet ...

Invasive plants are Earth's way of insisting we notice her medicines. Stephen Herrod Buhner
Everyone learns what works by learning what doesn't work. Stephen Herrod Buhner

M Ljin

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Something occurred to me.

If prices rise 10x due to oil prices,

And you farm without oil using natural fertilizers,

And you grow your own food for yourself too,

Doesn’t that mean you would potentially get around 5x as much for your efforts compared to before? (Assuming your price is 2x the average conventional produce)

I can see plenty of people who could not only survive but possibly thrive from this.

One can never be too kind to oneself or others.

Hugo Morvan

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I do believe prices might double, (bad enough) but i do not understand where the 10 fold is coming from. But if so, rice and beans are going to be popular as well as wild foraging and stealing from people's gardens.
I am doing my bit by planting more potatos. Good plan to move some sunchokes. I have planted some tobacco early, i thought if prices are going to go up, people won't have money for tobacco but be stressed and want to smoke even more. Barter material.
I believe and see most capable people are already giving it their best and cannot do much more than they are doing already. Adding more crisis talk in an overly alarmed society will not change a lot i think.
I checked a bit on youtube and saw AI slob about growing gardens..People generally overestimate what they can achieve, growing a garden full of food with no previous experience... They come across 100% sure they will have super gardens, better than those socalled gardeners, because they're winners. But they'll learn trying. And then in disappointment look for guidance. People's focus will shift to food growing as insecurity strikes and prices rise. And as chemical inputs will become too costly for many, attention will automatically shift to how to do local and biological, maybe even work with nature, not against it. Permaculture movement can and should flourish. I would also like to point out to people here that seed saving has never been more important. Plant some extra, and let the biggest plants provide seeds, share extra seeds of this year with friends willing to really grow.(in doubt do not share, but keep them for later)
But back on topic if the price of food goes up tenfold, anything can happen and none are good.

Creating edible biodiversity and embracing everlasting abundance.

Oliver Huynh

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Hello,

I remember having read a paper about Cuba, where they described using every available horizontal surface (window sills, roofs, courts, ...) to grow anything edible. In the center of some cities in Vietnam you can also find surprisingly green balconies with all kinds of containers or boxes full of vegetables, sometimes there is barely any space to walk.

I think the most difficult in small allotments are protein-rich foods like meats or pulses. Maybe I can launch scarlet runner beans on the walls of the house this June? On a little footprint one has to climb ...
Whatever we do, we have to start now. I have met quite a lot of people who have a small ornamental garden but prefer not to grow vegetables until they really need to do something - that will not work.
It seems my Catawissa onions and wild garlic are able to escape the mining fly, but at their current division rate I hope to have another decade before I have to rely on them. Goutweed and nettles on the contrary ...

Have a nice evening,
Oliver

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paul wheaton

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i do not understand where the 10 fold is coming from.

Good. This thread explores "what if?" not "will it?"

paul wheaton

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Anne Miller wrote:If the cost of food goes up 10x maybe my income will too.

For this thought experiment, your income will not change.

paul wheaton

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Burra Maluca wrote:I'm very keen to grow a range of fruit trees/bushes/plants that will give me as close as I can get to a continuous fruit supply without the hassle of having to store it.

I think this should be at the top of every permie list.

A little bit of food preservation is nice. But I am always confused by the idea of a full court press in the fall - it is exhausting!

Douglas Alpenstock

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M Ljin wrote:I can guess what I’ll be doing…talking all my townspeople’s ears off about how tasty acorns and nettles and wild parsnip and dandelions are even though no one is listening.

Hm! The townies are already massively conditioned to buy subscriptions for access to anything. They have cash but need access to country foods. This could be a business opportunity!

Jay Angler

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I just attended the opening presentation of our local library's new free seed library. The presenter was the coordinator of a not-for-profit local regenerative farm. I kept feeling this is not what the audience needed - they were all people with small back yards or possibly only balconies.

The library manager (I'm on first name basis with her) was wondering at the end what this could be the start of. I suggested to her that considering we are the seniors capital of Canada, that a talk on container veggie gardening might go over well. It wouldn't meet their calorie requirements, but it would boost their nutrition if the focus was on nutrient dense foods like parsley, oregano, mini-tomatoes etc. She thought that was an awesome suggestion.

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Douglas Alpenstock

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Jay Angler wrote:I just attended the opening presentation of our local library's new free seed library. The presenter was the coordinator of a not-for-profit local regenerative farm. I kept feeling this is not what the audience needed - they were all people with small back yards or possibly only balconies.

The library manager (I'm on first name basis with her) was wondering at the end what this could be the start of. I suggested to her that considering we are the seniors capital of Canada, that a talk on container veggie gardening might go over well. It wouldn't meet their calorie requirements, but it would boost their nutrition if the focus was on nutrient dense foods like parsley, oregano, mini-tomatoes etc. She thought that was an awesome suggestion.

I've spent time over the last 30 years on long walks through Vancouver Island (Sidney and Victoria) every spring, and have observed a fair amount of "snootiness" about vegetable gardening. Sort of the echoes of old-school British class snobbery, where only the "lower classes" grow food. The upper crust grow flowers. Personally I find it hilarious, but it appears to be a genuine thing. I don't know if that applies on the mainland.

EDIT: To be clear, the concept is brilliant! I'm just pointing out potential cultural barriers.

Jay Angler

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Douglas Alpenstock wrote: I've spent time over the last 30 years on long walks through Vancouver Island (Sidney and Victoria) every spring, and have observed a fair amount of "snootiness" about vegetable gardening. Sort of the echoes of old-school British class snobbery, where only the "lower classes" grow food. The upper crust grow flowers. Personally I find it hilarious, but it appears to be a genuine thing. I don't know if that applies on the mainland.

Certainly that's still around. However, there is a huge permaculture trend here as well, along with publicity about how poor Vancouver Island's food security is. A lot of our more recently arrived citizens hail from the Prairies to get away from the snow. They have much more respect for farmers - or often were farmers themselves. The presentation today was *very* food focused and the seniors in the room seemed perfectly happy with that focus. They are also a great number of people on a fixed income who will be watching it erode with inflation.

The number of attendees wasn't huge, but they did seem to be listening. There was a discussion about CSA's. If they go that route, at least it will support local farmers which will hopefully keep some pressure on the food security side of things.

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Douglas Alpenstock

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Jay Angler wrote: However, there is a huge permaculture trend here as well, along with publicity about how poor Vancouver Island's food security is. A lot of our more recently arrived citizens hail from the Prairies to get away from the snow. They have much more respect for farmers - or often were farmers themselves. The presentation today was *very* food focused and the seniors in the room seemed perfectly happy with that focus. They are also a great number of people on a fixed income who will be watching it erode with inflation.

Excellent! Glad to see a cultural shift. We are always envious when we visit -- we can see that the amount of food that can be grown out there is simply insane.

Douglas Alpenstock

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I think that a x10 "shock increase" in food cost would be the minimum for a cultural shift.

I recall the sudden rush on garden seeds during Covid. People were suddenly terrified that supply lines might possibly be vulnerable --OMG, REALLY?! (duh).

Fast forward, I wonder how many of those seeds were planted? How many people kept planting in the following year? One in ten thousand? No, food costs settled down to the new norm (higher) but not enough for a radical shift in behaviour.

Our great-grandparents had complex strategies to grow enough food to feed their large families. Year after year. They saw war and disruption en masse. The fact that we currently exist proves their method. These are the set of tools to keep in your back pocket. My 2c.

Jay Angler

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Douglas Alpenstock wrote: Excellent! Glad to see a cultural shift. We are always envious when we visit -- we can see that the amount of food that can be grown out there is simply insane. :-)

Don't be too envious - the deer and rabbits require Fort Knox to keep them out. Spring lasts forever and the cool summers make it hard to get tomatoes to even consider ripening.

That said, fruit trees grow well with minimal care. We have 4 kinds of apples, 3 kinds of plums, and if I could get them planted, figs and jujuba. For small fruit, we have raspberries, grapes, wild blackberries, and again, if I can figure out a spot where it will be happy, Hardy Kiwi.

Trouble is that I can't eat too much sugary fruit!

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Andrés Bernal

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Douglas Alpenstock

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Jay Angler wrote:Don't be too envious - the deer and rabbits require Fort Knox to keep them out.

Humans are adaptable omnivores. I imagine that in tough times, an equilibrium would be arranged.

Ra Kenworth

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I'm sure food prices have doubled since fall in my area near Canada's capital. I am still eating squash I grew in my stinging nettle cutting compost, and all the seeds have been getting shoved into reused paper envelopes and stuck in the freezer door, awaiting the reappearance of soil.

As a good gert I do have asparagus, sunchokes, brambles, strawberries, buckwheat, and lots of medicinals and polinator plants on my tile bed, but I am certainly will prioritize food growing more than I intended along with the home renos i am doing myself, so I guess I will lose those extra pounds! Better find some cruciferous seeds in my hoard for kimchi and my air lock mason jar lids!

I actually just bought a morel mushroom kit. I am pretty sure they pop up on my property but I want to be sure. Next will be oyster mushrooms.

I am really glad when I was laid up I simply let my cultivated nettles take over. In about another month there will be a wonderful spring crop and soon thereafter lamb's quarters. I am happy to go back to substituting meat with eggs especially after hearing rumors of foot and mouth in the food supply elsewhere around the world.

Maybe hurry up and grab my scratchy non pesticide hay bales from the horse farmer near me while I can. In a few weeks they will be pigeon poop innocuoated for growing food and I was only paying $4-5 per small bale.

Honestly I am expecting a big hike in food prices. I've also noticed a scarcity since Christmas -- getting whole peas is now a challenge except in piddly small packets, but I use it mainly as feed for my flock. I am using lentils but soon I will be ordering forage peas. They make better sprouts anyway! I eat a lot of peas and lentils and sprouts from these plus buckwheat. I will be fine, but I will be checking out my new sour dough book. Bread prices are getting too high, but I haven't made a lot of bread since my boy flew the nest.

Byron Gagne

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If prices were to 10x well we should be ok up here Northern BC Canada.

Last year was a good start in our food forest. Winecap mushrooms producing. Walking onions started, and the gardens produced 450 lbs of spuds. Also started a J-choke bed. A lot of the trees and bushes or 3-4 years old know so not really producing yet, another year or 2 till good production. There is one old plum on the property from a previous owner that really produces ! This year add carrots and more herbs. As I’m taking herbal training at the moment

As for those prices going 10x then I would add more foraging, hunting and fishing on top of what we already do. Usually there’s an elk or moose in our freezer each fall.

This being said I did just receive enough powder primers and bullets to build 1000 rounds for my favourite rifle. A lot of game available, moose deer bear elk frequent the farm. Also stone sheep and mt goats not to far away. So I did prep for ammo shortages.

My jersey heifer “Bug”. Should be calving soon. So this summer we will have a bounty of grass fed milk. Cheese kefir, butter all be made! My little heard of 5 ewes produced 8 lambs this spring. So I got my firesmart crew in order and a lot of lamb chops next winter. Not to mention all the wool for wife to spin and knit with.

Just like Corb Lund. We will be getting down on the mountain!
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Eric Hammond

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I would get more serious about foraging and hunting for sure, I have tons of black walnuts, tons of squirrels and rabbits. My garden would expand for sure, but the bulk of my calories is walking around eating grass( sheep) and I have a pig I am currently raising. More things will get fried in lard for calories. I think I have the infrastructure in place already that I think I could double down on production with a little motivation and I would also get more serious about teaching gardening to others and share food and resources and develop my local neighborhood into a community where we can pool resources. Honestly the more I think about it, there could be a lot of positive outcomes for a 10x food increase. The beginning would suck for sure, don’t get me wrong.

M Ljin

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Douglas Alpenstock wrote:

M Ljin wrote:I can guess what I’ll be doing…talking all my townspeople’s ears off about how tasty acorns and nettles and wild parsnip and dandelions are even though no one is listening.

Hm! The townies are already massively conditioned to buy subscriptions for access to anything. They have cash but need access to country foods. This could be a business opportunity! ;-)

My “downtown” is a cluster of thirty-odd houses, a church, and a few public buildings surrounded by forests, meadows, and fields. The rest of the town is scattered on farms, up in the woods, and along the roads. I don’t know if access is an issue per se; I think it’s more of an attitude that only wild deer, cavemen, medieval peasants, and the insane eat those sorts of things. (I therefore fall firmly into the latter category.)

There are people who like to forage too, though far more gardeners and maybe a similar or slightly lesser number of hunters. In general though, it seems as if people prefer and value “being angry at the bad guys” and would rather blame someone else for their misfortune rather than do the (often easy and pleasant) work of being resilient and “settle for less” like the medieval peasants.

One can never be too kind to oneself or others.

M Ljin

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And then there’s that the best time to plant a garden, or a tree, is twenty years ago. Rarely does one get rewards the very first year. You are growing an ecosystem between you and the plants and the soil; it takes you time to learn the rhythm of the land. I find that my garden gets a little better every year, and eventually it adds up. Rhubarb grows a bit, grows a bit, gets divided, grows a bit more. Nettle patch grows, grows a bit, grows a bit more, now it’s time to divide! Hostas…pokeweed…seeds get a bit better adapted to the land every year, and you stop trying to plant seeds where they won’t grow, saving a lot of effort and some money. (I didn’t buy one seed this year. I’m serious.)

Peach trees are growing happily and vigorously. No flowers yet. Same with mulberries. I’d love to have more mulberries if just for the beautiful bark fibers! Bur-gambel oaks are five inches taller than last spring. My earthworks are soaking more water into the ground, and I need to make more—I can see more areas that would be excellent with ponds. (The parsnips grow twice as big under the swales!) I don’t need to rush at making all my swales at once or renting out expensive machinery. Every year, a little more, and every year, I learn more. Lovage is still hanging in; lots of garlic from last fall, which is one of the best adapted crops. I have a lovely potato variety I started from seed that’s very productive and tasty. It took three years to reach full sized tubers!

The yam is hanging in, getting bigger every year and making more yamberries. I planted six—two came up and one survived to yamhood. That one made dozens of yamberries last fall—we’ll see if any come up any time soon.

Even with annuals it’s a process to get into the right rhythm and understand their requirements and life cycles. I don’t grow very many, but squash like a bit of shade, which the packets likely won’t tell you. So does the kale—grown in the full sun, both may become ridden with pests. I didn’t learn that from an internet search. Nor did I learn from an internet search that the local sawdust is useless for most kinds of mushrooms, except wine caps. And so on and so forth ad nauseam.

One can never be too kind to oneself or others.

Sara Rosenberg

Posts: 67

Location: Fort Worth, TX 76179

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Thankfully i came here and read alot and made a ton of mistakes.

I live in an HOA, have several fruit trees and bushes that supply me with fruit year round.

Built a greenhouse 3 years ago and have a protected "citrus wall" i protect in the winter.

My walking onions are prolific, ive got leeks everywhere, asperagus going gang busters and many more herbs than i know what to do with.

Im very thankful for finding this place long ago and trying to pay it forward to others when and where i can.

https://www.facebook.com/AlphaBetaOrchards/

Lawren Richards

Posts: 26

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Wrote a longer post and lost it ‘cause I wasn’t logged in, but in short: what’s so great about sunchokes? Mine were knobby, small, tasteless, and died off in a season or two. Why do sunchokes instead of, say, potatoes?

J Watt

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Water and fuel seems to be the most problematic for many. So many people, myself included dream of my own plot with a artesian clean well. Clean water and clean air are another concern. I have my victory garden, sunchokes, herbs and more and my chickens. Had goats. Have my Barter network, but my water source could be challenged at any time. Each year we get less and less watering days and on the city irrigation and municipal water. Fuel prices are almost unbearable. Then the pantry baking items have been dwindling down as work has been insufficient to keep up. We haven't gone without, due to having garden preserves and pantry stocked with food from over 10-15 years ago, but it isn't being replenished as fast as it is dwindling. Thankfully God provides and I'm part of a food rescue and that supplies fresh produce all year and abundance during growing season. I'd love to move out and expand my sufficiency.

Lawren Richards

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J Watt wrote:Water and fuel seems to be the most problematic for many. [quote=]

I’ve lived on rainwater 20 years; even with just 600ft2 of roof my 2 square totes in the basement fill up with a couple days of rain, then I divert to a couple of exterior totes for summer watering needs. I’m in the BC Interior with temps +/-10d of freezing, so I get water in winter although I can go without collecting Dec-Apr and still not run out.

I use a course & fine sediment filter on house water, and an additional charcoal filter for drinking water.

Su Ba

pollinator

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Location: Big Island, Hawaii (2300' elevation, 60" avg. annual rainfall, temp range 55-80 degrees F)

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My concern living way out in the middle of the ocean is not just "what if food prices rise 10X? …. but what if shipping to Hawaii gets interrupted? The State of Hawaii currently imports around 90% of its food. And the overwhelming majority of the population doesn’t have a clue about growing food.

Personally, I’ll be fine. My diet will surely change quite a bit, but I won’t go hungry. Now my husband will find himself in a sad situation, because he’s not fond of sweet potatoes, taro, breadfruit, pumpkins, green papayas, and edible gourds. I guess he will have to learn to eat them because those would become our staples.

I foresee two other problems that would develop if the price of food went up tenfold. ….
…. Theft. People will be trying to steal from my farm. And my livestock would be at risk. Since my farm is fully fenced, I suppose I could go to animal control and adopt a dozen dogs to run loose on the farm to prevent theft.
…. Availability of seed. It’s happened before that seed suppliers restricted who could buy seed. Luckily I’m already recognized as a farmer and have access to seed, but home gardeners may find themselves restricted or cut off from seed.

I also foresee that I could do very well selling my excess at our local farmers market.

It's never too late to start! I retired to homestead on the slopes of Mauna Loa, an active volcano. I relate snippets of my endeavor on my blog : www.kaufarmer.blogspot.com

Paul Canosa

Posts: 57

Location: Shizuoka Japan

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With minimal garden space and living in the suburbs (not my preferred location) our options are somewhat limited in terms of what we can grow, and perhaps just as importantly what we can keep from neighboring hungry people I've gone with the dried grain and canned protein "solution". The yard does have a few citrus trees which is a nice dose of vitamin C and our region is well known for producing excellent oranges and lemons, so perhaps I can squeeze another tree or two into the yard this year... Unfortunately my mother in law decided that mitigating weeds was more important that improving the land so she had the entire backyard covered in small stones. Its really back breaking labor to remove thousands of tiny pebbles from the soil. Not giving up, just venting :)

KG bags of Oats and canned sardines are my go to stock. I eat them regularly anyway so its not a waste of money. Oats are still relatively cheap and have a shelf life of over a year by the time they end up on the shelves here. I tend to prefer the Canadian brands, but sometimes the brands from Latvia are cheaper. I won't starve on just those 2 foods for some time. A 5x or 10x increase in price is going to his this region so its likely most people will shift to the traditional Japanese diet of starch, veg and fish. Not a bad idea actually.

The density of population even here in a C class prefecture city is really amazing coming from a New World mindset. There are 400,000 people in this city and its not really on the map in terms of total population on the island of Honshu. My neighbors are about 1 meter from the side of our house. Growing is my goal, but there are limits to what can realistically be grown. I COULD rent some land down the street, but I reckon hungry folks will be eating it if we are talking about about a 10x price increase. The Japanese people will not steal food from the garden during the day, however at night things could get dicey.

During disasters things sell out quickly but its very orderly. I saw people waiting for masks during the Covid crisis and the shop said "everyone gets 10 masks". No panic, no pushing and no complaining. Everyone took their 10 and went home.

I doubt that happens in North America

so keeping what you grow would seem of paramount importance for those of us nearer to city centers. Perhaps if the price of gasoline goes up 10x that might reduce that demand a bit. Nevertheless its still a concern as far as I am concerned. A very good reason to have a couple of reliable dogs as an alarm system. Few things as reliable as a good dog.

anyway

I hope everyone is doing well. Its great to see the foresight, planning and action that is taking place on these boards.

Never attribute to malice that which is explained by ignorance or the inability to listen

jd hutton

Posts: 56

Location: 10a

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Douglas Alpenstock wrote:I think that a x10 "shock increase" in food cost would be the minimum for a cultural shift.

I recall the sudden rush on garden seeds during Covid. People were suddenly terrified....

Fast forward, I wonder how many of those seeds were planted? How many people kept planting in the following year? One in ten thousand? No...

..and Why? 'Normalcy Bias' - plain and simple, and more pervasive than 'you will die of gas from Sunchokes' legends.

For the 'Store-Addicted Normies', I think it comes down to Applying (Doing) This:

(as long as 'What you Have' is Sunchokes, Walking Onions, and Kale.

But seriously - That's a Great suggestion - because the 'almost-automatic results' will help 'Melt-away' the Normalcy Biases - ergo: 'Hey! I Grew something! Maybe I don't Need the 10x Priced Store?' - and they're off towards Permielife. (well, if they Survive the year, at least..

When we first moved to Super-Deserty AZ ~4 yrs ago, I tried a small Experiment - What could be done by simply putting 'Kitchen-Cuts' in the sandy-loam, here.. and doing Little more than irrigating 2x / day, and tossing a few Other 'kitchen scraps' / coffee-grounds once in awhile, etc on top, as 'compost'..

..and whattya know - Green Onions, Reds + Russets, Sweet Pot's, 'Spaghetti Squash', Strawberries, and even some Romas all flourishing - in a Tiny 'Proof of Concept Plot' - over and over and over - From 'cuts' from the Store-boughts.

etc..

(PS, Oh yeah, + Romaine, Red-Leaf, Spinach, Chard and, yup, Kale

Over-winter..)

No, that's not going to 'Save the Family' - but that's from, what - a 2' x 2.5' plot of Nothing? Expand that plot-size 5x (or Also in Buckets / Poly-Barrels - or get a couple Hügels going, etc) and Soon you'll Actually be able to make a Difference.

..But Just Do It. Like's been postured - "30 minutes" - 3 (or 5

'staples' - even from 'Store-cuts', as-per the above examples, and Kick that 'Normalcy Bias' to the curb - Right next to the Politics.

Every Man Dies... Not Every Man Really Lives.

Su Ba

pollinator

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Location: Big Island, Hawaii (2300' elevation, 60" avg. annual rainfall, temp range 55-80 degrees F)

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Paul Canosa, I wouldn’t worry about that pebbled yard. Those stones would act as a mulch, helping to retain soil moisture. By carefully setting aside the pebbles, planting a veggie plant (say an eggplant for example), then returning the pebbles in place—- you’re good to go.

It's never too late to start! I retired to homestead on the slopes of Mauna Loa, an active volcano. I relate snippets of my endeavor on my blog : www.kaufarmer.blogspot.com

Edward Lye

Posts: 320

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I have a prepared response to such topics:

There are others but this was the first I came across.

If you are determined, there is a way. Be prepared to use fertilizer.

I have tried to grow tomatoes and corn but after multiple attempts,
it just wasn't worth it. One kernel per cob! and I planted them in a ring.
Only cherry tomatoes yielded above the average one fruit per plant.

Pineapple takes too long and usually the promising first fruit gets
harvested by something ahead of us.

Beans and ladyfingers do well. In the past, we
had pumpkin and watermelon BUT all 3 neighbours don't like our plants
touching "their" fence. Two have concrete and the third only plants
grass.

Bananas do well but then we would be starving
between harvests so we give most away since we don't have freezer
space.

The animals are hungry too and lately the birds have been attacking green
papayas before and yellow spots show on the skin.

I guess they are similarly desperate.

I think a food forest/eternal vegetable garden is just not in our future.

In the attachments are the subtitles for the nitty-gritty. One was
Google Translated from Vietnamese.

Paul Canosa

Posts: 57

Location: Shizuoka Japan

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Su Ba wrote:Paul Canosa, I wouldn’t worry about that pebbled yard. Those stones would act as a mulch, helping to retain soil moisture. By carefully setting aside the pebbles, planting a veggie plant (say an eggplant for example), then returning the pebbles in place—- you’re good to go.

hey wow

thanks so much

just the thought of NOT removing them is a weight off my mind

Never attribute to malice that which is explained by ignorance or the inability to listen

I agree. Here's the link: http://stoves2.com