The "P" key issue: not the same as procrastination

This is what procrastination looks like:



And I'm not talking about that.


This is a feeble attempt to share something in the hopes that it might help somebody. In many ways, it is foolish to share this sort of thing as it exposes you (me) to haters. And, at the same time, many people will then have less faith in the rest of my endeavors because I am sharing this. Let the chips fall where they may.


I was about 22 when I first encountered what I call "The 'p' key issue." I was writing a program, but I wasn't. I needed to write this program, but instead of writing the program, there were times when I just sat in front of the screen and stared at the screen. I knew what I needed to write. I wasn't procrastinating. I was there, in front of the computer, knowing what to do and it just wasn't happening. An hour or two could pass like this.

I would know that the thing I needed to do was push "p" on the keyboard. I knew it. But I didn't. I just sat there ... staring at the monitor trying to will myself to press the "p" key. Sometimes the day was broken only by peeing, pooping and eating. I refused myself any fun or adventure because I had not earned it.

I then tried to solve the problem by trying different things, including going out for a bit of fun or a bit of exercise or doing something other than what needed to be done.

My diet at the time consisted of mostly PB&Js and crunchy cereal (Mmmmmmmmmm .... delicious crunchy cereal ... my favorite at the time was bucwheats ... so crunchy ... so yummy). In time, I figured out that the culprit was the milk in my crunchy cereal. Once I got rid of the dairy, the problem went away. But it took several months to figure this out.


About eight years ago the problem returned. Not quite as bad as before, but my productivity was definitely low. This time the problem did seem more like procrastination. But it seemed to be 20% procrastination, 40% "the 'p' key issue" and 40% new territory. I decided to solve it like I did before: figure out what was causing it. After a year or two, I met Jocelyn and she connected me with a really good naturopath. After more than an hour of talking she sent me off to have my B12 levels tested. Apparently, it was the lowest she had ever seen. She started me on stuff to get my B12 back and, in time, the problem went away. I was back to being very productive. It was suggested that my B12 went down due to stress (from crazy people!).



On the spoon theory thread, I shared some stuff about stress over the last couple of years and a feeling of exhaustion. This was not the same as "the 'p' key issue." And this wasn't procrastination. It was just oodles of exhaustion. I felt certain it was mental exhaustion brought on by the 20 month party and stress. The spoon theory stuff has been really helpful in trying to heal up from that. But at the same time, it was amazing how I would easily give up a lot of spoons for stupid stuff.

I was making progress. If I take a 15 minute break every couple of hours, plus take evenings off, and even take off an afternoon or two each week, I would be able to do more and feel better. It was a slow road, but with definite progress.

Last fall I had "an incident". I was in my office talking to jocelyn and I suddenly got super dizzy - the room was spinning. Jocelyn got freaked out and insisted that I go to a doctor. The doctor took blood tests and ... in the end I just decided it was stress and a bit of a fluke. I worked less and things started to mend.

A week ago I was taking time off one evening. We don't have a tv, but we do have netflix instant view. We were watching "Doc Martin". A woman collapsed. It turned out she had an excess of iron. And I remembered that one of the blood test results from last fall was high iron.

I sent an email to the doctor to ask "how high was that iron stuff on that test?" and have not heard back.

I looked it up and found that pretty much the only way to solve this is to donate blood (which is what doc martin did).

I used to donate blood quite regularly. I was past two gallons. In 1994 I donated blood and the red cross sent me letter saying that they tested my latest donation and a liver thing was wonky. They don't want my blood until I see a doctor about it. I saw a doctor and was told to tell the blood people that it must have been a fluke, test again. But I ended up just not going back.

So I thought this was a thing to try. Red cross blood donation place in missoula is closed on wednesday and thursday, but open from 10am to 2pm on friday. So I have to wait. I get there on friday at 1 and they say that they cannot accept my blood because of the thing in 1994. I told them that my doctor said I was fine back in 1994 but they said "don't tell us, you have to call this 800 number and convince them." Jocelyn got that all sorted out for me by 3pm - too late to make a donation. Plus, it sounded like it could be weeks until the computers could all catch up and ... fuck it - I'll donate somewhere else. I spent a couple hours on saturday trying to find another place. I even found a place in spokane that would take blood on sunday (but there was a LOT of conflicting info on whether they were REALLY open on sunday - after several phone calls, I managed to get a human being on the phone and received ample assurance that they were, indeed, open). So Jocelyn and I made a day trip to spokane. A beautiful drive punctuated by a wonderful restaurant that jocelyn found in core-duh-lane.

The spokane blood center folks tested my blood for iron and said it was "15.7". Apparently if the number is lower than 12.5 they won't let you donate. I have no idea what this actually measures. Google told me that the average person has 10 pints of blood. I'm a giant so I'm just going to guess that I have 20 pints. So maybe my iron load was reduced 5% from 15.7 to 14.9. So if I was 3.2 units above "barely anemic" I would now be 2.4 units. A pretty healthy shift!

That was sunday. Yesterday, monday, I probably got twice as much stuff done. A very productive day. And I'm getting a lot done today too. The change is so dramatic and feels so good, I feel quite confident that this was the solution. Naturally, I would want to wait several more days to see if I maintain this level of productivity. And I plan to donate as often as I can for at least a year. I think after my next donation I will go in to see the doctor and get my blood retested.

As I did the research there were a couple of other fascinating things: apparently nearly all men get excessive levels of iron in their 40s. And it can be a huge contributing factor to lots and lots of problems. It just seems like guys donating blood once in a while does a lot to improve the health of guys!


- - - -

Through all of this I was really sure that I didn't have depression. I don't know why. After all, I have never felt suicidal. Nor sad (at least no more than what seems normal when you see or hear of awful things).

I once heard of a woman that would sleep 22 hours a day and it turned out she had depression.

So I looked it up just now. Hmmmm ... maybe? Fatigue is on the list. But most of the stuff on the list is not me.

I really enjoy the writings of former Missoulian Allie Brosh. And when she wrote about her Adventures in Depression



I commented and told her about the B12 stuff. My comment was comment number 3500 or so. The comments were eventually turned off and then she responded with Depression, part 2. She explains that offers of help sound like ... well, suppose your goldfish have died:




- - - -

What if I never figured out the dairy thing? Or the B12 thing? Or the iron thing?

What new adventures lie ahead for me as I get older and moldier?

I'm excited to get caught up on all of my stuff soon. I hope that Allie Brosh is all better now. I hope that my exposing my own personal health junk that it helps some permies.

Maybe all that is called "procrastination" also has some cause, as you have found for yourself and that you do not call "procrastination"?

There are many allergies and metabolism issues other than dairies and iron of course, as it can be excess copper though too low organic copper, which will give sensitivity to electricity, and then you will taeget only electricity though it also has a cause behind! It can be molds, toxic metals, so basically the body will resist, until there is a bit more stress or a job that is not very motivating to do. It will be said "Ho, this is stress", though stress will only be the trigger that shows you have to find what is the deeper issue!

So find the cause, but also the causes, and the causes of the causes!

Wow, somebody actually read this!  :)

I think that for a lot of people, if you accomplish something in your procrastination (a few days ago, jocelyn taught me the word procrasti-baking) then that might be a signal for what "your thing" is.  

The very most important part of this bit of writing is that by defining "the P key issue" I have given a problem a bit of tangibility.  It is less of a ghost that is haunting me, and more of a physical entity I can now wrestle it to the ground.  

A few weeks ago I needed to order more DVDs.  It was the highest priority of the day for about two and a half weeks.  Despite being the very highest priority, I kept working on everything besides that.  Several times I forced myself to open the appropriate documents, and then I would pop over to something else.   What the fuck is wrong with me?  I had already done 60% of the work.   All that is left is  about 20 to 30 minutes.  After about a week of this, I told Jocelyn that I needed some "pair programming" to get through a stupid, small task.  Of course, Jocelyn is drowning in her own projects - and I think there was a moment I may have helped her through a small task and so she reciprocated.  Poof - it's done.  20 minutes.

I wrote about the pair programming stuff a bit here:  https://permies.com/t/99481/pair-programming-passive-income

I think that procrastination is about dodging all of your work.   I don't think I have much problem with that.  

"The P key issue" is where there is some sort of bizarre, psychological block that gets triggered from time to time.  The P key issue has a volume knob on it, and it can be turned up or down by certain foods or life choices.  At the same time, pair programming crushes the P key issue every time.

The pair programming idea is great.  My wife and a friend of hers both had problems keeping their houses clean as the mothers of several yound children.  They would go over to the other persons house sometimes and help them clean their house.  It was pretty easy to clean the other gals house, and easy for her to clean yours.  Also, when the other person was there, it made the owner of the house clean also.  

I also have a problem with procrastination, mainly due to three problems.  

1.  I have so many things I want to do there isn't time to do them all, so my efforts are scattered and often ineffective
2.  My energy level at this time of my life is simply much less than when I was younger.  My 'want to' is that of a man in his mid twenties.  My 'can do' is that of a man in his mid sixties.  In my case, it's a pretty major energy difference.
3.  Often my ideas are not completely thought through, causing lots of false starts.
4.  I'm surrounded by people I love who are caught in a cycle of Youtube, online movies and video games.  There is an inertia there that makes it easy to set down by them and switch off.  With my wife, this is due to real, limiting health factors, but I have a feeling that a large part of the health factors are due to long term inactivity.

Of course there are ways to deal with the first problem, set priorities.  Still learning on that one.  Often I make priorities and life demands those priorities shift.  So, it's a work in progress on a moving target.  Keep pecking away.  

The second problem is bigger and harder to deal with.  My solution is to simply start reducing what I'm trying to do until I get to the point that my energy level can handle it (once again, priorities).  Bill Cosby once said that his grandpa only tried to complete one task a day.  (This was back in the day, when Bill was the seen as the coolest guy ever rather than a creepy sexual predator).  I'm doing things to like exercise, etc, but it's unlikely I'll ever be 25 again, in this life anyway.  There is some need to adjust to reality.

The third problem may not be a problem.  Rather it is a process of discovery.  If I'm trying to do something totally new, I should realize that repeated failures are normal.  I can reduce this by going over things further in my head and on paper and examining the successes of others doing similar things.  So maybe the extra time that I think is wasted, isn't.

The last problem is the one I'm thinking on the most.  If I shut down the electronics, I'm an overbearing asshole.  If I don't, well, things don't change.  I guess what I need to do is ignore them and come up with things that are so cool they will pull them out of their fantasy worlds.  It's all a challenge.  I'm not sure I will win it, but I guess that's what life is about.  A game you always win is boring.  I like a challenge, so I need to readjust my thinking and take this as my challenging game.

For me, a lot of this comes down to fear and anxiety. Also, for me, some of it comes down to joy and fulfillment, too.

I overthink things way too much, and I get quite scared of all the possible outcomes that could happen and everything that could go wrong. I worry about not being good enough. I worry things I do not mattering. I worry about things I do mattering.

Other times, it is because what I am doing is not necessarily something that brings joy and energy to my being.

These are complicated issues, and I am still figuring out how to address them.

My current method is to do a bit of what I do enjoy and then do a lot of what I don't enjoy, since that's currently my obligation (school work). I also try to make what I don't enjoy more fun or at least less miserable, by listening to music.

As for my fears bit, I am finding that exposure therapy kind of helps. By just doing what I fear, I find out that it wasn't that bad. But getting into the mood of "eeeehh, I'm really afraid, but I'm going to do this anyways" takes awhile to get to.

I am procrastinating a new jumper whilst watching YouTube.  Time well spent...

Another Vitamin 'gotcha' for us northern people is Vitamin D3. So many of the animals we eat (if we eat animals) are no longer raised in fields in the sun, so their Vit D is low, and the sun is too low in the winter months for humans to manufacture their own. All the broohaha about skin cancer hasn't helped either. (Yes, be reasonable and avoid burns, but a bit of sun is good for us!!) My symptoms first showed as a shoulder injury that wouldn't heal. At the time, my GP almost told me I was crazy, but since I always figured I was pretty good at listening to my body, I did some sunbathing and things got better. I *really* need to schedule that for the summer, but somehow when I try to just sit and relax in the sun, somebody comes along wanting my time or attention and implying I'm just wasting my time. Sigh....!

The post was even interesting... So I read it all of course! I was in shock when I saw there had been no answer!

It has happen many times to me to have an important task and when I manage to do it (for me, last minute is the pushing factor! Or pairing when possible), then I tell myself "Ho, I have seen how easier than I thought it was, and next time I will have no problem!"
...which proved wrong each time!
So I think that it just feels too big for part of our system/body, and so I have also found another trick...! I find another trigering stuff to do, and I do the first one to avoid doing the second! Another tip is to start to just do one bit, or have a look at it, and eventually the rest will follow.

paul wheaton wrote:The very most important part of this bit of writing is that by defining "the P key issue" I have given a problem a bit of tangibility.  It is less of a ghost that is haunting me, and more of a physical entity I can now wrestle it to the ground.  

...Despite being the very highest priority, I kept working on everything besides that.  ...  Poof - it's done.  20 minutes.

"The P key issue" is where there is some sort of bizarre, psychological block that gets triggered from time to time.  The P key issue has a volume knob on it, and it can be turned up or down by certain foods or life choices.  At the same time, pair programming crushes the P key issue every time.

It is not so much psychological than a feature of the Autonomic Nervous system (or this is a mere question of vocabulary choice!). And the ANS reacts very well to paired work! It even the best tool ever, we are social in nature because of the neurone mirror and more... Actually it has to do with the ventral part of the vagus nerve, which gives it an even more tangible aspect!

It happens that this part of the nerve works:
- less good when our body is under attack (food or life style or mold or virus and more)
- more good when we are with somebody.

Exactly what you have noticed, and confirmed by science.

So it is called psychologic, but it is a "physical entity" as you call it, I like the expression, and nothing so mysterious when explained, though not taken into account much.

Dave Burton wrote:For me, a lot of this comes down to fear and anxiety. Also, for me, some of it comes down to joy and fulfillment, too.

Same answer, yes! And fear/anxiety are from sympathetic activation, which then causes the protective reflex to not dive into what can be taxing on the system, unless we get to do the challenging task with somebody.

Ho by the way... I usually have this sort of syndrome when I am fluidly going forward for a nice project (joy and fulfilment!), and then bam, there is "something that should not have to be done but that has to be done for stupid reasons", such as filling administrative papers. So it activates some frustration or even anger that I should not be loosing my precious energy on this or that...

Jay Angler wrote:Another Vitamin 'gotcha' for us northern people is Vitamin D3.
I did some sunbathing and things got better.

You need to sunbath very close to midday and with the sun at 50º high on the horizon, so you need to find the table to know the dates and hours for your area.
Then be careful with supp, as our body can also downregulate vitamine D for a good reason:
If we are too high in calcium and too low in Phosphorus, the body does not want VitD because it would add some calcium! The way to check this out for not much money is a hair test giving you all your minerals as you have them in tissues and not in the blood, as this is useless to know what the body maintains at the right level for life reasons. What is important are our tisssues content.
People with fibromyalgia and other stiffenings are the ones that may be concerned by having too much calcium in soft tissues, mainly because the body sends calcium there to slow us down and avoid anxiety. Calcium is a calming mineral.

Amanda Launchbury-Rainey wrote:I am procrastinating a new jumper whilst watching YouTube.  Time well spent...

Yes, knitting is my way to deal with this too. When I do some knitting I feel I am 'producing', so I feel like doing 'useful work'. What makes it feel even more useful is listening podcasts while I am knitting!

I don't know if it is physical or psychological, but there are times I feel like I can't start doing certain things, allthough the are high on the priority list. It could even be because they are high on that list ...

Inge Leonora-den Ouden wrote:

Amanda Launchbury-Rainey wrote:I am procrastinating a new jumper whilst watching YouTube.  Time well spent...

Yes, knitting is my way to deal with this too. When I do some knitting I feel I am 'producing', so I feel like doing 'useful work'. What makes it feel even more useful is listening podcasts while I am knitting!

Exactly. I can be productive whilst not being productive. I learn from the videos at the same time. Paul's podcasts are reserved for when Im gardenjng.
Are you knitting anything interesting at the moment? Do share over on tne yarn forum!

For me the most efficient solution is do wake up early. I hate waking up early but if I force myself to do it, and force myself to start working right after I've had my first cuppa, I get a lot done.
If I don't get anything done in the morning, I very probably don't get anything done in the afternoon either. Another energy peak for me is about 18 o'clock so I might get something done in the evening even if the whole day has been devoted to not doing much anything.

Have you noticed any rhythm in your energy/ concentration/ getting stuff done  -levels?

A big energy sucker for me,  the biggest by far, is relationship trouble. If I have a row with my husband or if I sense that he's not happy about something and there's tension in the air, I can't get anything done until there's harmony in the house. It's one of my most annoying qualities I think, from another person's perspective as well as my own. I do of course feed the animals and the kids and do what's absolutely necessary for survival, but that's it. I can't concentrate on anything other than the relationship problem. Of course there's still some "work" stuff I can do, the easy stuff, and if I happen to have some easy work then that may get done. Something like simple text editing or translation I can do without much concentration. But all the stuff that's demanding for me like  household maintenance, book keeping, logistical planning, organising, calculations, maps ... no way.

Another big concentration killer is the sense of lacking direction. Maybe it's a bit similar to what Dave Burton wrote about, worrying about things not mattering. I often feel I'm going around in circles and not in touch with what it is that's really important in life. When I was young this was a fairly constant nagging fear. Now it's more like an occasional cloud over my head. The sky clears and I feel in touch with my purpose but the clouds still reappear later. Maybe it's just part of who I am and not something that can be changed.

Nina Jay wrote:For me the most efficient solution is do wake up early. I hate waking up early but ...

Have you noticed any rhythm in your energy/ concentration/ getting stuff done  -levels?
...

I like waking up in early morning. The morning is my most productive time of the day. That's when I have the energy to do physical work.
My concentration is never really good, but I think that's at its highest level later in the morning until around noon (10 AM - 1 PM), especially when I did some (physical) activities during that morning.
But not too hard work, nor when it's cold, rainy or cloudy; those make me feel like 'not starting to do anything', except for reading, watching videos, or listening podcasts, a.a. My evenings are filled with those kind of things too (social media).

Inge Leonora-den Ouden wrote:I don't know if it is physical or psychological, but there are times I feel like I can't start doing certain things, allthough the are high on the priority list. It could even be because they are high on that list ...

Yes I agree that when there is high priority, there is higher stress thus a higher reaction. About being "psychological", I always smile back at people and say "Yes, and our head is in our body!". So this is physical because it touches a system, the nervous system, as important a system as the digestive or respiratory or immune systems etc...
Physical or psychological, anyway our body is wise and the reaction is PROTECTIVE and that is why it is so strong, it is like the fuses of the house electricity, and if I self-quote from my long post:

And fear/anxiety are from sympathetic activation, which then causes the protective reflex to not dive into what can be taxing on the system, unless we get to do the challenging task with somebody.

As this is about energy, it is about energy suckers and build ups of different ones.

Nina Jay wrote:A big energy sucker for me,  the biggest by far, is relationship trouble.  

I think it is an energy sucker for everybody ! It matches the fact that the reverse, like pairing to do something, is helpful. The ventral branch from the 2 branches of the vagus nerve is said by Steven Porges to be responsible for social engagement, and helps to not be overwhelmed by stress. That is also why we know we are still wuite ok as long as we can take care of children or animals. They even help by sustaining our motivation to be active actually.

Nina Jay wrote:For me the most efficient solution is do wake up early. Another energy peak for me is about 18 o'clock

Have you noticed any rhythm in your energy/ concentration/ getting stuff done  -levels?

Yes and this has to do with circadian rythm, thus cortisol daily curve. So this has to do with our energy levels, and when we dont have enough energy, we cannot handle an extra burden of stress. It is real biology! We all react right, according to our biology in all its differences and specificities.

- our body reacts differently according to the sense of security or threat. =  Action + rest in security, become fight and flight + any form of freeze in threat, even if it is the fear of something that can happen or a memory. We just have to TRUST others and ourself about our reactions even when we don't understand them. We have an organic intelligence through the ANS, which is the only body system that is often dismissed nowaday.  We have been told it is only about instincts and instinctive defense movements, but it is actually running all that works alone in our body, mainly the organs and cells, which is not little.
- it is not about only one thing but more often about many little things piling up.
- Relationships are protective if it is presence and support without depriving us from acting. The effect is usually bi-directional, it serves both.

paul wheaton wrote:This is what procrastination looks like: I hope that my exposing my own personal health junk that it helps some permies.

Paul, I am saddened to hear you are going through this: high iron sucks. In fact it has many names, but Brain Fog is the most common one. Like you, I have incredibly high iron. Interestingly blood-Letting is the only way to alleviate it, even in 2019!

But what causes it? You never really got into that, so I thought I might add to the conversation...

It could be a genetic disorder called Hemochromostosis. You either have it, or you do not, and a simple blood test will detrmine that. Your Dr should have ordered that when he saw you had high iron. (Mine did, and I do not have it).

Another cause could be surgery. This is the reason total Thyrodectomy is really discouraged. There are cords that run up the front of your windpipe. and it is possible they are cut with a scapel during surgery. This is what happened to me. Because my Thyroid was so loaded with cancer, in trying to remove as much as possible, those cords that control calcium levels and D3 levels in the body were damaged. Most people recover, but a low percentage, 1-2 percent, never do. The lack of D3 and Calcium really messes up the Adrenal Glands that causes an inability to deal with excess iron. I take 50,000 units of D3, and 2500 mgs of calcium per day, and will have to for the rest of my life.

Another cause can be damage to the Pituitary Gland. Most often this is caused by concussions, but not always. A non-fully functioning, or over-active pituitary gland is the driver of the adrenal system, and that controls everything from heart rate, to sense of well-being. EVERYTHING!

There are details I am leaving out because this gets complex, but the reality is this: people should ask their doctors about hormone testing if they are tired or experiencing Brain Fog. 80% of women, and 50% of men have Thyroid issues and do not even know it. It is such a slow progression downward that people do not even realize it.

(Note: High iron is a by-product of a much more complicated issue for me. I have a VERY rare form of cancer so do no let fear keep you from being checked. Most adrenal issues can be addressed via herbs and supplements).

Women tend to be protected from high iron until guess when - menopause. (So tell me, why isn't it called womenopause?) Iron's implicated in heart attacks, and yes, donating blood is a really cheap way to get it tested and treated! People are too careful nowadays - I think we used to loose blood by doing stupid things like killing mammoths, not to mention, most of us didn't live long enough for it to be a problem. Interesting that people are linking it to brain fog, when traditionally we tended to think of *low* iron in association with low energy. Many things interact in unexpected and unusual ways. Many people don't seem to ever learn to listen to their body - I believe it's a skill that takes observation, patience and time to develop. (So permaculture works inside us as well as in our environment!) But we not only need to listen to our bodies physical needs, but also its emotional needs and I'm really glad to read people contributing to both sides of that equation in this thread.

Travis Johnson wrote: Like you, I have incredibly high iron. Interestingly blood-Letting is the only way to alleviate it, even in 2019!

But what causes it? You never really got into that, so I thought I might add to the conversation...

I wrote about it a few years ago

http://www.makeitmissoula.com/2015/10/swords-iron-missoula-blood-and-pie/

I donated blood a bunch of times and felt way better.   And then I had my blood tested again and I was fine.

So, donating blood is probably safer than trying to get into a bunch of knife fights.

paul wheaton wrote:I wrote about it a few years ago. I donated blood a bunch of times and felt way better.   And then I had my blood tested again and I was fine.

Yes, the fact that you were fine says a lot. Glad to hear you felt better.

paul wheaton wrote:So, donating blood is probably safer than trying to get into a bunch of knife fights.

Unfortunately, I never got that memo. Instead, on March 27th 2017 I tried using a chainsaw...a 461 Stihl for those that are interested in such details, the cut requiring 20 stitches to the forehead right between the eyebrows, and 4 days in the hospital, but it still did not work. That was when they found my cancer though!

I'll take your advice and pass on the knife-fight at the Spearmint Rhino Club, and go to the Red Cross instead.

paul wheaton wrote:

Travis Johnson wrote: Like you, I have incredibly high iron. Interestingly blood-Letting is the only way to alleviate it, even in 2019!

But what causes it? You never really got into that, so I thought I might add to the conversation...

I wrote about it a few years ago

http://www.makeitmissoula.com/2015/10/swords-iron-missoula-blood-and-pie/

I donated blood a bunch of times and felt way better.   And then I had my blood tested again and I was fine.

So, donating blood is probably safer than trying to get into a bunch of knife fights.

Even more, it is on permies here https://permies.com/t/50961/Swords-Iron-Missoula-Blood-Pie#410609
and it might be that matching the titles by moving posts about iron to this other thread be a good idea and simplify the search task in the forum too!

Donating blood is the best but not the only way to lower iron, and prevention is also possible, or a few tips help to not get high again.
But I will post it in the other thread!

And now we know why you love PIE!

Random neural firings (undisciplined thought - to - mouth)
I'm in a 12 step recovery program. One of the "steps" is taking an inventory of ourselves every day to learn what we think about and how we acted that day. I'm a good person and treat others with kindness and respect so that usually doesn't turn up much. For me, I'm particularly interested in my thoughts. Think about what you're thinking about.
That's where the meat is. I can be positively brutal to myself - chastise myself if I don't accomplish much or just wander around attending to this and that but not doing the big stuff that needs to get done...finish painting the coop or cleaning the shed that's been a shambles since I finished building said coop. Or now that rainy season is over finish the water-routing grooves I ground out in the concrete. Yay, they work!! Now finish them...Before rainy season starts again and floods the coop.
Self - abuse continues with letting the garden go to weed while I built the coop and now I have a mess to contend with before I can plant food. I go to the grocery store and buy what I can easily grow and chastise myself, if I hadn't been so focused on building something above my pay grade to house the chickens...Why did I need so many?!? What was I thinking?? And you have no fresh food! Idiot, moron and similar words I call myself, words I would never use on anyone else. Then there's the L word - lazy. The big sin.
So for me, the big issue is what I think. Being kind to myself is my biggest challenge and what stands in the way of focus and productivity. Taking that inventory is key toward progress and living a good, happy life...and isn't that The Goal?
Along with that is cutting the fat on a regular basis. What/who needs to go? A lifelong process of inventorying who and what my life comprises of and adjusting to my ever-changing flowing life. New things and people in, things that don't work anymore, out. I think of my life as a confined space that can only hold so much before becoming chaotic and more than I can manage. I want to enjoy my life, not let it carry me away on a tide of unnecessary crap.
I don't know if anyone else goes through this but I wanted to put it out there.

Leslie - yes. I know exactly.
We have to accept that if is impossible to do everything. My biggest problem us i set myself up to fail by pkanninv to do things I  am simplg not physically able to do. Then I just don't do what I can. I am trying be happy about what does get done though and accept praise for my little successes. I.e. silly it may sound but I love getting likes and apples! I do so love this platform

Amanda Launchbury-Rainey wrote:Leslie - yes. I know exactly.
We have to accept that if is impossible to do everything. My biggest problem us i set myself up to fail by pkanninv to do things I  am simplg not physically able to do. Then I just don't do what I can. I am trying be happy about what does get done though and accept praise for my little successes. I.e. silly it may sound but I love getting likes and apples! I do so love this platform

Pies and apples are a lot like money in real life: the more you give, the more you get. The reality is, you really cannot give all your money, pies and apples away, as long as you do so in a meaningful, loving way.

By that I mean, if you think, "I'll give more apples, pies and money away so I can get more", it will never happen. It just does not work that way. BUT if you generally feel compelled to share, it comes back.

I often snicker at people who try to be shrewd, thinking in their evil schemes, fruaglity, and theft that they will get more, instead they always rob themselves.

Katie and I; we give generosly to charity, and my only wish is that we could better position ourselves so that we could give more. On here I do not give nearly enough apples and pies away, mostly because I forget that I can. But then again, if you aw me in real life, you would see that more apples and pies is the LAST thing this chubby guy needs!

That is one awesome pie! Thank you for my apple and pie!

I still had one apple to give away today. So Amanda has it now. You could start making an apple pie Amanda. I think that isn't too difficult.

I have that too, still thinking I'm 18 years old and I can do whatever I want to, while in fact I'm a grey-haired grandma

I know that there are many, many, cool things in this thread that merit a more thorough and intelligent response, but the first thing that jumps to mind is an article I read recently entitled "Iron Is the New Cholesterol" that left me thinking about the whole iron thing a LOT. (after some tattoos, surgery, and travel to problematic regions, I haven't donated blood in about 2 years, and I'm getting itchy to do so.)
You might find it interesting.
http://nautil.us/issue/67/reboot/iron-is-the-new-cholesterol

Thank you. I am so chuffed! I am sat in bed with a dreadful cold but smiling because of my apples! After all.....an apple a day keeps the doctor away!

Tereza Okava wrote:I know that there are many, many, cool things in this thread that merit a more thorough and intelligent response, but the first thing that jumps to mind is an article I read recently entitled "Iron Is the New Cholesterol" that left me thinking about the whole iron thing a LOT. (after some tattoos, surgery, and travel to problematic regions, I haven't donated blood in about 2 years, and I'm getting itchy to do so.)
You might find it interesting.
http://nautil.us/issue/67/reboot/iron-is-the-new-cholesterol

I mentionned above that there is a thread by Paul about specifically iron issues, and I posted there a bunch of resumé about what to do for low or high iron, as it has to be tested.
https://permies.com/t/50961/Swords-Iron-Missoula-Blood-Pie#828503

paul wheaton wrote:
"The P key issue" is where there is some sort of bizarre, psychological block that gets triggered from time to time.

I've been feeling this for the last few weeks.  It's not that I'm afraid to do the work, nor am I unsure what to do.  I know exactly what to do.  It's easy.  The big work is already finished.  I need to take the words on the bit of paper and put them into the computer and press save.  Just why can't I get it done?

It's been over two weeks of sitting at the computer and not doing it.  I'm not doing anything else, but after an hour of not doing what I need to do, I give myself 10 min of play, then go back to 'work' - which is basically sitting down and not doing what needs doing.

Sometimes, when I hit a road block like that, I ask my husband or kids to do one portion of it. Like, I REALLY don't want to start dinner, abut it has to get done...so I ask my husband to wash the potatoes (which I don't like doing and he doesn't mind) and that motivates me to do the rest. Or with brining in firewood. I'm tired of doing it, so I ask my husband to bring in the first load, and then I do the rest.

Is there someone you can ask/make to do the worst part of what you have to do? Maybe that will motivate you for the rest?

r ranson wrote:

paul wheaton wrote:
"The P key issue" is where there is some sort of bizarre, psychological block that gets triggered from time to time.

I've been feeling this for the last few weeks.  It's not that I'm afraid to do the work, nor am I unsure what to do.  I know exactly what to do.  It's easy.  The big work is already finished.  I need to take the words on the bit of paper and put them into the computer and press save.  Just why can't I get it done?

It's been over two weeks of sitting at the computer and not doing it.  I'm not doing anything else, but after an hour of not doing what I need to do, I give myself 10 min of play, then go back to 'work' - which is basically sitting down and not doing what needs doing.

Sometimes it's nothing we're supposed to be doing. I have a hard time accepting that in myself, having been raised that the L* word was the Worst. Thing. Ever. If I find myself not doing a particular something that should be easy and quick I go into the self-berating I mentioned earlier. But after having been a whirlwind of accomplishment the comedown is hard. I have the list, know what & how to do it all, and can't get there. I find myself wandering from one little thing to the next not really accomplishing anything (GOD FORBID). The only thing I've come up with is sometimes it ok to let my brain be on strike.
*Lazy...shudder😲

r ranson wrote:

paul wheaton wrote:
"The P key issue" is where there is some sort of bizarre, psychological block that gets triggered from time to time.

I've been feeling this for the last few weeks.  It's not that I'm afraid to do the work, nor am I unsure what to do.  I know exactly what to do.  It's easy.  The big work is already finished.  I need to take the words on the bit of paper and put them into the computer and press save.  Just why can't I get it done?

It's been over two weeks of sitting at the computer and not doing it.  I'm not doing anything else, but after an hour of not doing what I need to do, I give myself 10 min of play, then go back to 'work' - which is basically sitting down and not doing what needs doing.

I honestly have no idea what I'm talking about or if this applies to anyone else but perhaps myself (and I'm not sure about that either)
but I think people do what they want to do and they don't do what they don't want to do.
If for some reason someone finds themselves unable (without any obvious physical reason) to do something, maybe they just don't want to do that work or that part of the work, to be more precise.
There is something stopping them. They may want to do the project, but not the tiny little part of it. Why? The reasons can lie underneath the surface.

What would it mean if I did this? Would it mean that I am done with the project? That it's over? What if I don't want it to be over?

Early in the thread it was mentioned that someone has finally responded, but there are 5680 views. I was one of those views several years ago.

The number one thing that I have been putting off, is having my iron tested. About a year ago my brother in Ontario called to say that he had this high iron thing and that it ran in families. It has been resolved by giving blood. It's been on my mother's Facebook and other places where people hope male members of the family will look. The entire medical intervention in my life so far, has been getting stitches three times and taking antibiotics to get rid of what was believed to be Legionnaires disease. I was in the habit of using lukewarm water, in houses where the electricity had been shut off to the water tank. I know I have to get this iron thing done.

Along with not bleeding at our jobs, like we used to, I wonder how much has to do with dietary differences between men and women. I know a lot of men who eat a lot of meat and I know a lot of women who live on carbs.
......
I felt quite good when I was in the Philippines for 3 months and when I looked it up, it turns out that most tropical soils are low in iron. So this means the people are low in iron. This whole thing about my blood, led me to do quite a bit of searching about what is and isn't in tropical soils. Turns out that hundreds of millions of people are low in iron and zinc. Even if someone grew everything organically on their farm and didn't live on sugar, but instead just ate good fruit, vegetables and meat, they could be missing key minerals. It's worse for people living at a distance from the ocean, when they are poor and don't have access to seafood. All of that investigation was sparked by my brother's news and my remembering Paul's iron issues.

Nina Jay wrote:I honestly have no idea what I'm talking about or if this applies to anyone else but perhaps myself (and I'm not sure about that either)
but I think people do what they want to do and they don't do what they don't want to do.

I used to think like this.  And why not?  It's the myth we are fed every day of our school life.  It basically says, if you're a failure, you aren't trying hard enough or you aren't wanting to succeed enough.  

Humans aren't that simple.  

Here's a another example of something like the P key.

r ranson wrote:

Nina Jay wrote:I honestly have no idea what I'm talking about or if this applies to anyone else but perhaps myself (and I'm not sure about that either)
but I think people do what they want to do and they don't do what they don't want to do.

I used to think like this.  And why not?  It's the myth we are fed every day of our school life.  It basically says, if you're a failure, you aren't trying hard enough or you aren't wanting to succeed enough.  

Humans aren't that simple.

It is a huge myth. Ask any Doctor and they will tell you that the endocrine system is highly complex, and yet that is what makes the transition from brain function to physical movement all transpire with checks and balances along the way.

In my situation, 3/4 of my endocrine system is suppressed by a tumor pressing down upon my brainstem. Something as simple as logging can be tough for me..."which logs should be cut for sawmill logs, and which ones should go into pulp. Which trees should I leave for regeneration, and which should I take? Just simple decisions like that I cannot seem to get beyond.

In getting a new project started, there are a lot of false starts. When I look at the project, sometimes even one or two problems...minor hurdles...can stop me from starting because it all seems overwhelming.

I put off working on my workshop because I was not sure if it would be a waste to use some really nice 16" wide pine boards that I have, for shelving. After debating it for a few days I decided, I had cut the tree down and sawed it into lumber because the tree was dying from a Pine Beetle infestation...anything I do with that wood is better than letting the tree rot on the ground. That is a decision most people would make in 2 seconds, it took me a week to ponder it over.

I have never been like that...and it sucks.

I am glad to re-discover this article - I have had a six-eight month slump in productivity, even in simple things, that my unconscious brain just seem to be "blocking" me from doing, that don't match up with anxiety as I know it.

I'm resistant to giving blood and taking a blood test, due primarily to me not wanting to.

Has anyone attempted giving up cooking in Cast Iron to decrease their Iron levels on a more stable basis? I don't want to do this either - my pan does wonders in the kitchen - but giving blood was not pleasant in my last experience.  

Paul, maybe some of it is just plain old burnout. Too many hours on your arse in front of a screen, and not enough outside working on the stuff you love.

What if you cut your indoor desk time in half, and spent the other half outside doing awesome physical stuff for a whole month as an experiment?  

I say this not because I know it is true of you - I don’t really know your schedule other than what you say about how many hours you are working per week - but because I find myself getting paralyzed when stuck too long in front of a screen or on the phone for work. It is like it builds up over time and accumulates. Weekends or days off are completely different.

And I know you are spinning a million plates in the air and want to advance things faster. But there is value in pacing yourself, not least of which is your own health and personal enjoyment of life. And if cutting your available time to spend on sitting screen stuff in half forces you to be really focused when you are doing the sitting screen stuff, maybe you just end up more productive and effective?  And hella more happier?

Thanks Artie Scott I got the same problem sometimes

I am sharing here now, not because I am stuck, but because I am sharing how I got unstuck in the past.  

Of course, as always, what works for me might work only for me - but maybe it can be of help to others.  And what works for Artie might not work for me.

Artie, I would like to draw your attention to my new book, the PEP program, the bootcamp, And if you look at my signature you will see a link to quite a few accomplishments.  I also wish I could accomplish a thousand times more per day - but I think my current velocity is pretty good.

@Paul Wheaton - I am amazed at all the great work being done on the PEP project. I know lots of people are helping, but you're what I'd call "the glue" - you're keeping it all organized and stuck together! It always bothered me that people could spend hours doing a certified permaculture course, but not really have much experience on the ground to hang that knowledge onto. PEP is giving people small, concrete goals that improve practical, real life skills. It's awesome!

Paul, I have your book right here beside me, have listened to all of your podcasts, and am well aware of the PEP program and all of your many awesome accomplishments. You are a juggernaut building an incredible empire.

It occurred to me on reading your post that maybe the “stuckness” was similar to the burnout I feel when I am sitting in front of a screen for too long. Definitely did not intend to imply any lack of productivity on your part.

I have no doubt you advance permaculture more in one hour than I ever will - sorry if my note came across otherwise.

   Nina Jay wrote:
   I honestly have no idea what I'm talking about or if this applies to anyone else but perhaps myself (and I'm not sure about that either)
   but I think people do what they want to do and they don't do what they don't want to do.



I used to think like this.  And why not?  It's the myth we are fed every day of our school life.  It basically says, if you're a failure, you aren't trying hard enough or you aren't wanting to succeed enough.  

Hi, r-ransom

FWIW. viz "not trying hard enough"

I think maybe that is not quite what Nina meant. I have seen and experienced situations where I, proactively, simply would NOT do something. Big time. Fuck trying, trying wasn't even in the room - nothing to do with this issue. Maybe you could say there was a "block", but whatever. It was like pushing to get two magnets to join when they were not oriented right. NOT going to happen over my dead body. Or my live one either. <g>

_That_ is purely psychological. Or spiritual, or whatever one calls those deep things. I was in a group therapy session once where a woman talked about how she "couldn't" get the laundry done, even though there was a laundry room 20' down the hall. Three weeks worth and counting. Like that.

I walked into an office on the 30th(?) floor of a fancy corporate building on the last leg of a "get-some-money" project and the instant the elevator doors opened into the plush silence of padded cubes, deep carpets, tasteful indoor trees, textured wall coverings, bright wide windows looking over the bay - KLUNCK!!! My thought processes froze and I _knew_ with utter certainty I would NEVER work in a place like that again, Never. Even  though it was just a 6 month data conversion contract which would set me up for the next two years... NOT.

Sometimes the "inner self" has a serious "opinion" about something  and if your "higher faculties" persist, it just takes the key out of the ignition. I have seen and felt this to lesser extents at other times in my life. That was just the quintessential  essence of the phenomena.

My point is sometimes these situations manifest  deep personal feeling, body feeling.  Best to respect and try as possible to understand these feelings which  may sometimes morph into imperatives. I'm certain there are different "work arounds" some of which can involve input from other significant people, many of which probably yield much good. But to me, this situation points to "something going on" in a person.


Regards,
Rufus