Harvesting hazelnuts

So, a few months ago I started noticing hazelnut trees (beaked) everywhere. Fields, ditches, river banks, lakeshores, forest edges. And they were all loaded with immature nuts. I thought this would be a great year to pick them. I’ve tried 2 times in the past. The first time I picked them way too soon, had a hard time peeling them and they didn’t taste good. The second time, I tried to time it right but ended up losing almost everything to squirrels.

I just browsed through probably 100 hazelnut trees and managed to find 6 nuts... Seriously. There were 2 that were out of reach and other than that, the squirrels must have taken everything. The thing is, from what I’ve read, these nuts aren’t even ripe yet. I thought the goal was to wait until the husks start to dry out and turn brown to harvest. These are still wet and green but the nuts are already disappearing! How in the world do people actually harvest these things??

Location is Michigan’s upper peninsula, zone 4 if that helps at all. I’m going to try to reach out to Sam Thayer (foraging expert in Wisconsin) to see if he has any advice, but figured I should check with all you great people as well.

yep. if you have any squirrel pressure at all, and can’t defend your hazels, you’ll rarely get a ripe nut. it’s one of their favorites and they can be relentless- and as you noted, they don’t care if they’re fully ripe yet. i take it it’s not a good area for netting, fences with hot wire, trapping?

I've never been able to harvest a single hazelnut here either.  I hardly have any squirrels, but apparently the ones I have are pretty industrious and capitalistic, and are shipping them to friends.  I did see a squirrel driving a new pickup the other day, so I think I'm onto something.

Have you opened those six nuts? I bet there's nothing in them 😂 The squirrels can tell.

Yeah, same here, somehow the squirrels can smell exactly when they are ripe enough to be good keepers. I'm working on a solution, though right now it looks like "havest hazelnut flavoured squirrels" is the most productive approach.

I planted some of Mark Shepard's hazelnuts probably 5 years ago.
Within 3 years I had planted about 100 bushes so some are only 3 years old this year.
The branches got so full they were hanging to the ground.
Again this year they have me thinking maybe rows 10 ft apart is too close.
Getting hard to walk down the rows.

Last year the squirrels got about half my crop,.. and I got 3 squirrels.
I also got at least one volunteer hazelnut tree from them.

I ended up with about 2 big peanut butter jars full of nuts in the shell last year.

When it's harvest time,
I try to push the nut to the side and see if it breaks free of the husk.
If it does, it's ready.

A few years ago I tried an experiment.  I foraged hazelnuts every 4 days from about when I thought they might be getting ripe until I couldn't find them.  There were several outings where I found plenty of nuts and they were ripe.

I suspect that either I found areas without many squirrels/chipmunks (unlikely), or it takes the critters a week to pick them all and if you're out there during that week you can get your share too (maybe also unlikely?)

I think the holy grail for all of us is to design a nut cache.  Something that the squirrels/chippers will store the good nuts in.  We can come along and "run the trapline" to collect the nuts they stored for us.  Of course we'd only want to trick the squirrels out of some of their harvest so they don't starve.  Maybe a cache every 100' or so.  

oh gosh I LOVE this idea of getting the squirrels to do the work for you..  

We have about 50 Badgersett hazel bushes. We live trap chipmunks starting in June each year. Last year we relocated 139 of them. This year about 90 so far. This year a couple of squirrels showed up for a few days but they mostly knocked down a couple of dozen nut clusters. We did shoot one of them and removed a large branch overhanging the orchard fence (6' 2x4" mesh with chicken wire around the base and electric on standoffs at 3' height).

As for harvesting, if you wait until the nuts easily break from the husks, you won't get many nuts. We harvest as soon as the shells turn brown, peaking inside the husks to check on them. Sometimes the husks will also be browning at this stage but often the husks will still be quite green. These prematurely picked nuts need to be brought into a rodent-proof building and spread on window screens to dry for a few days, then the husks can be removed and the nuts spread back out to continue to dry down.  The drying can take 2-3 weeks, and the nuts then can be kept in an airy storage bin for at least a year or longer. We like using waste baskets that are made of expanded metal with about 1/8" openings (made for office use). We get around 3-4 baskets of nuts in a typical year which, when shelled out, gives us each a topping of nuts for our morning oatmeal daily.

We made the mistake of planting our first hazels 8' on center in 5 rows. The newer planting is 10' on center but only 2 rows wide.  12' spacing would probably be even better.  In the past few years the Japanese beetles have been making an impact on the hazels, as well as grapes, raspberries, apples, aronias, beans, amaranth, sweet potatoes - well just about everything we like to eat :>(  I'm wondering if keeping the bushes pruned to a shorter height will help with our daily bug picking runs and keep the jungle more under control? We have been doing coppicing on the older, more overgrown bushes, and annually take out any mature stems to open up the bushes a bit. We have chickens in the orchard with the 8' spacings and they do love the shady area under the hazels when it's hot and also to help protect them from aerial predators. But the chickens don't help with rodent control, and don't seem to like the JB. Oh well.....

Larisa Walk wrote:We have about 50 Badgersett hazel bushes. We live trap chipmunks starting in June each year. Last year we relocated 139 of them. This year about 90 so far.

Haha, your dedication to getting hazelnuts is simply awesome.

Even without squirrels, there's seldom many hazelnuts left for me to harvest when they are ripe.  The birds and mice are also very good at selecting the good ones, so those that are left for me are mostly hollow.  We had a really good mast year a few years ago, and I managed to get a couple kg of nuts (in their shell) from a hundred yards or so of native hazel along the river bank.  This inspired me to plant some nutting cultivars in the hope of larger harvests.  Only two of the four trees took however, which is a bit disappointing.  I will replace them next year.

i gave up trying to get the beaked hazels. its a crapshoot from year to year with the squirrels and the beaked hazels are hard to get out of the husks. i have 6  5yr. old american hybrid hazel bushes, from arbor day, planted near the house, in the middle of my lawn. this is my 1st year they have nuts and are laying down from the nut load. nuts big as my thumb. so far no squirrels found them. theyre about 2 weeks from being ripe. much easier to harvest and much bigger than beaked hazels. when dry they pop right out of the husks.

greg mosser wrote:yep. if you have any squirrel pressure at all, and can’t defend your hazels, you’ll rarely get a ripe nut. it’s one of their favorites and they can be relentless- and as you noted, they don’t care if they’re fully ripe yet. i take it it’s not a good area for netting, fences with hot wire, trapping?

I thought I read that they wait until the nuts are ripe, and so if you want to beat them you need to harvest when slightly underripe. But these are slightly underripe and still disappearing so, that theory is flawed!

There’s hazelnuts all over around here. These were all just from roadsides and ditches, so any sort of squirrel battling wont be happening. I do intend on transplanting some hazel shrubs to our yard this fall, so that will be a different story. We have a dog, live traps and fencing, so I will definitely be able to keep a better eye on things once we’re growing at home.

steve bossie wrote:i gave up trying to get the beaked hazels. its a crapshoot from year to year with the squirrels and the beaked hazels are hard to get out of the husks. i have 6  5yr. old american hybrid hazel bushes, from arbor day, planted near the house, in the middle of my lawn. this is my 1st year they have nuts and are laying down from the nut load. nuts big as my thumb. so far no squirrels found them. theyre about 2 weeks from being ripe. much easier to harvest and much bigger than beaked hazels. when dry they pop right out of the husks.

Im all about native plants and I love just transplanting wild bushes or taking cuttings to bring home. But, I suppose maybe with hazelnuts it would be worthwhile to grow an “improved” variety or to buy seedlings. I dont like the idea, but I also dont like the idea of having to battle squirrels and husks to get small hazelnuts either!

For anyone purchasing hazelnuts, I'd highly recommend Mark Shepard's Forest Ag company.  The bare root seedlings I got from them were in wonderful shape and they all grew well the first year (and years since).

Mike Haasl wrote:For anyone purchasing hazelnuts, I'd highly recommend Mark Shepard's Forest Ag company.  The bare root seedlings I got from them were in wonderful shape and they all grew well the first year (and years since).

What kind of hazelnuts are they? Id like something that either will sucker or that will produce fertile nuts so that I can plant more for free. Do hybrid hazelnuts fit that bill?

most hybrid hazels are a mix of our American hazels with european hazels  that sucker and can be planted from seed. most are bred to be immune to filbert blight. the nuts are 2 to 3xs bigger than any wild beaked hazels ive picked in my 50 yrs and 5xs. more productive per bush. you can get 30lbs from 1 8ft. mature  bush. the ones i grow came from the hazelnut consortium at Arbor day. they partnered with Badgersett farms in M.N, 6 yrs ago to make their crosses. not sure they still do it but there are many others selling hybrids. Z nutty ridge is another i know that sells them.

yes they do and more productive with much bigger nuts. see above. ;)

American hazels are native to your area as well as the beaked. they are more abundant the further south you go in your state , as they are here. they are z4 hardy. some z3. there is alot of breeding programs  going on to develop new hybrid hazels to be grown commercially in the north. out of my 5 bushes, only 1 of them has 1in. nuts. the rest are maybe 1/2in. but these were experimental hybrids sent out for people to trial for arbor day 6 yrs ago. i got mine free and every once in awhile i get asked about how theyre producing by Arbor day. they have come a long way now and 1in. nuts and some bigger are the norm. i highly recommened you get 2 distinctly different hybrids for pollination purposes. from those you can spread them far and wide. good luck!

Brody Ekberg wrote:

Mike Haasl wrote:For anyone purchasing hazelnuts, I'd highly recommend Mark Shepard's Forest Ag company.  The bare root seedlings I got from them were in wonderful shape and they all grew well the first year (and years since).

What kind of hazelnuts are they? Id like something that either will sucker or that will produce fertile nuts so that I can plant more for free. Do hybrid hazelnuts fit that bill?

They're American style nuts, I'm getting my first ones this year and they look big.  They are also starting to sucker.

ps.  I'd avoid Badgersett with a 39.5 foot pole.  I paid them $100+ for some trees that they never shipped and couldn't get them to even answer a call or email to resolve.

Our Badgersett hazels were purchased many years ago. One of them turned out to quite "beaky" but they were all early seedling crosses made back when Phil Rutter was breeding them. They sucker readily and we have since made clones of the nicest bushes to increase our nut orchard. The squirrels (and chipmunks and mice) don't care if they are beaked, hybrid, or wild as they will eat them all. As for husking, the beaked nuts are just as easy as the others if you husk them before they're completely dried down. All of the husks get harder to remove the longer you wait. There seems to be a sweet spot which varies from bush to bush.

yeah, i had heard Badgersett went to pot. too bad as they did good work in the past.

the American hybrids i have here barely have any husk covering them and when ripe can be popped out of the husk easily with your finger while still green. if dried they fall out on their own. the beaks are completely enclosed and a pain to get out without some work to open the husk. i much prefer the Americans over beaked. my 2 cents.

steve bossie wrote:most hybrid hazels are a mix of our American hazels with european hazels  that sucker and can be planted from seed. most are bred to be immune to filbert blight. the nuts are 2 to 3xs bigger than any wild beaked hazels ive picked in my 50 yrs and 5xs. more productive per bush. you can get 30lbs from 1 8ft. mature  bush. the ones i grow came from the hazelnut consortium at Arbor day. they partnered with Badgersett farms in M.N, 6 yrs ago to make their crosses. not sure they still do it but there are many others selling hybrids. Z nutty ridge is another i know that sells them.

Well, you just sold me on the hybrids! Im kind of bummed that I cant just go dig up freebies and transplant them at home for a decent harvest, but it sounds like a couple hybrid seedlings will be well worth the investment.

steve bossie wrote:American hazels are native to your area as well as the beaked. they are more abundant the further south you go in your state , as they are here. they are z4 hardy. some z3. there is alot of breeding programs  going on to develop new hybrid hazels to be grown commercially in the north. out of my 5 bushes, only 1 of them has 1in. nuts. the rest are maybe 1/2in. but these were experimental hybrids sent out for people to trial for arbor day 6 yrs ago. i got mine free and every once in awhile i get asked about how theyre producing by Arbor day. they have come a long way now and 1in. nuts and some bigger are the norm. i highly recommened you get 2 distinctly different hybrids for pollination purposes. from those you can spread them far and wide. good luck!

Now that you say both varieties grow around her, that probably explains what I saw last week. Up until last week, every single hazelnut I’ve ever seen was clearly beaked just from looking at the husk. Last week though, I found a couple shrubs mixed in that had almost no beak at all and the nuts were significantly smaller. I swear there were beaked ones on the same bush, but maybe it was a cluster and there were both varieties side by side. Or they cross pollinated and made a wild hybrid.

When planting fruit/nut trees that are likely to be affected by wildlife there are really only two options, protect individual trees or enclose the Grove in (electrified) fencing.

IF the tree "stands alone" then placing a metal stove pipe or a large diameter plumbing pipe around the trunk can prevent squirrels/raccoons fro climbing up into the tree. This only works if at least 6 feet of trunk can be protected AND there are no branches lower than six feet AND there are no buildings, fences or other trees that can be used to access the branches.

The stove pipe sections are split so can easily be snapped on just prior to harvest and removed, if desired as soon as harvest is complete. The same can be done with plastic plumbing pipe (split in half then put "back together" around trunk with duct tape, hardware, wire or zap straps at the very bottom and top.

Fencing with a section of hot netting on the upper three feet, again with no buildings or trees that would allow these creatures to circumnavigate the electrified portion is another option. Fencing would have to be small enough to either exclude critters or be solid metal (old metal roof panels) or electrified for a full 6 feet. Conversely, a solid, six foot metal enclosure (old roofing panels) would work if you want to avoid the electrification option.  

All these fencing methods would also exclude deer and create a secondary land predator proof chicken/duck enclosure.

i dont know if  Americans and beaked can cross. i know the euos can . ill have to look that one up.

The hybrid hazels, and our local wild hazels, are not trees but are suckering bush clumps and so impossible to protect individually from rodents. Fencing the orchard keeps out deer, rabbits, raccoons, and most squirrels. Removal of smaller rodents is key here to getting any kind of crop.

Brody Ekberg wrote:
Well, you just sold me on the hybrids! Im kind of bummed that I cant just go dig up freebies and transplant them at home for a decent harvest, but it sounds like a couple hybrid seedlings will be well worth the investment.

It may be worthwhile to plant a bunch of freebies to try to "fill up" the squirrels with nicer hybrids closer to your house or an area with a dog or the like.

Mike Haasl wrote:I'd avoid Badgersett with a 39.5 foot pole.  I paid them $100+ for some trees that they never shipped and couldn't get them to even answer a call or email to resolve.

I've read several things like that and figured I'd find other sources, but then I saw that Dusty Hinz of EFN had an inside connection with Badgersett and would be selling flats out of his store in Minneapolis for local pickup only. I'm just two hours north of there and so I bought and planted a flat this summer. I thought I saw an announcement that they have more, but now I can't find it to link you to. But there's this page at EFN.

Heather Staas wrote:oh gosh I LOVE this idea of getting the squirrels to do the work for you..  

We had a large clump of Filberts on a corner in the driveway nest to the house. When the nuts were just right the squirrels would start breaking them off and we would gather them up as they dropped.  Resulted in a lot of angry chatter but after all we planted the tree so we deserved the majority of the nuts.

You're the Temple Grandin of squirrels, Mike! :)

Lorinne Anderson wrote:When planting fruit/nut trees that are likely to be affected by wildlife there are really only two options, protect individual trees or enclose the Grove in (electrified) fencing.

IF the tree "stands alone" then placing a metal stove pipe or a large diameter plumbing pipe around the trunk can prevent squirrels/raccoons fro climbing up into the tree. This only works if at least 6 feet of trunk can be protected AND there are no branches lower than six feet AND there are no buildings, fences or other trees that can be used to access the branches.

The stove pipe sections are split so can easily be snapped on just prior to harvest and removed, if desired as soon as harvest is complete. The same can be done with plastic plumbing pipe (split in half then put "back together" around trunk with duct tape, hardware, wire or zap straps at the very bottom and top.

Fencing with a section of hot netting on the upper three feet, again with no buildings or trees that would allow these creatures to circumnavigate the electrified portion is another option. Fencing would have to be small enough to either exclude critters or be solid metal (old metal roof panels) or electrified for a full 6 feet. Conversely, a solid, six foot metal enclosure (old roofing panels) would work if you want to avoid the electrification option.  

All these fencing methods would also exclude deer and create a secondary land predator proof chicken/duck enclosure.

I dont think fencing will be a reasonable option for this particular spot, but I do like the stovepipe/plumbing pipe idea and depending on the size of trees we get, might have to give that a try. Also considering an outdoor cat. Plus we have a young texas heeler that loves to chase squirrels and a neighbor who loves to shoot them, so we have that going for us! Plus I have a live trap.

I would not recommend the use of a live trap during the spring/summer as it is baby season; slowly starving to death is a cruel way to die.

Lorinne Anderson wrote:I would not recommend the use of a live trap during the spring/summer as it is baby season; slowly starving to death is a cruel way to die.

The trap and trees would be in our front yard, and I would check it at least twice a day so starving babies should not be an issue. Plus, there will be food in the live trap.

Generally speaking, no one live traps with the intent of causing harm or distress, it is a lot of work to bait, monitor and relocate problem animals. Most feel it is the best way to live in peace and harmony with wildlife.

I post the following NOT to anyone personally, specifically or to be disrespectful; but simply to offer the full picture. I feel there is often a lack of insight into the use of "humane" live traps as most folks are unaware of how incredibly INhumane and ineffective they actually are.  When an action does nothing long term to solve the problem, it truly becomes an exercise in futility (misplaced effort, hard work) and potential cruelty. For me, live traps are NEVER used for relocation, but to capture sick/injured animals for treatment or euthanasia.

I should have been more clear, in my previous post. It is the separation of parent from offspring that is the concern. The adults are trapped and relocated leaving the dependent babies behind (sadly very common with the use of "humane" live traps for all species, such as squirrel, raccoon, weasel etc.) or parent dependent youngsters are trapped and released without the rest of the family.  

Live traps, if used at all, should really, only be used outside of breeding season for each specific species, because of this concern.

A secondary issue is territory. The relocation site may not have suitable habitat OR already be inhabited by the maximum of said species it can handle. This is one reason why relocation of predator species, such as bear, often fails; inappropriate or already inhabited territory.

The relocated animal must now fight for territory or flee in hopes of finding an uninhabited, suitable territory - often traveling hundreds of miles BACK to the site of the original capture in just weeks. Often they succumb to injury fighting for territory OR while fleeing through territory where local threats/food is unknown.

The leads to a third issue; a complete lack of knowledge as to hazards (dogs, roads, predators, territory, trespass), water and food sources; not to mention potentially dumping your problem onto someone else.  

It is also key to note local regs on relocation of wildlife; in our area you are restricted to (If I remember correctly) half a kilometer (500 yards or so) to ensure one is not spreading disease or parasites from one population to another. To me that makes the entire endeavor a complete waste of time as they will swiftly return to their home turf!

Even more sad, my experience is that most folks engage in live trapping as a way to "not harm" the animal. They do it out of concern, caring and kindness. Their goal, often, is to "help" the animal return to a "more natural" habitat, based on their interpretation of what the animal requires. I believe that working in harmony with nature is most folks goal or desire (especially with this being a Permies site) and why I feel the need to share this and hopefully dispel the many myths about "humane" or live trapping.

Lastly, nature HATES a vacuum, and will race to replace or fill an underused "suitable" habitat; so sadly the trapping/relocation/killing becomes a vicious circle, where nobody wins, long term.

Lorinne Anderson wrote:Generally speaking, no one live traps with the intent of causing harm or distress, it is a lot of work to bait, monitor and relocate problem animals. Most feel it is the best way to live in peace and harmony with wildlife.

I post the following NOT to anyone personally, specifically or to be disrespectful; but simply to offer the full picture. I feel there is often a lack of insight into the use of "humane" live traps as most folks are unaware of how incredibly INhumane and ineffective they actually are.  When an action does nothing long term to solve the problem, it truly becomes an exercise in futility (misplaced effort, hard work) and potential cruelty. For me, live traps are NEVER used for relocation, but to capture sick/injured animals for treatment or euthanasia.

I should have been more clear, in my previous post. It is the separation of parent from offspring that is the concern. The adults are trapped and relocated leaving the dependent babies behind (sadly very common with the use of "humane" live traps for all species, such as squirrel, raccoon, weasel etc.) or parent dependent youngsters are trapped and released without the rest of the family.  

Live traps, if used at all, should really, only be used outside of breeding season for each specific species, because of this concern.

A secondary issue is territory. The relocation site may not have suitable habitat OR already be inhabited by the maximum of said species it can handle. This is one reason why relocation of predator species, such as bear, often fails; inappropriate or already inhabited territory.

The relocated animal must now fight for territory or flee in hopes of finding an uninhabited, suitable territory - often traveling hundreds of miles BACK to the site of the original capture in just weeks. Often they succumb to injury fighting for territory OR while fleeing through territory where local threats/food is unknown.

The leads to a third issue; a complete lack of knowledge as to hazards (dogs, roads, predators, territory, trespass), water and food sources; not to mention potentially dumping your problem onto someone else.  

It is also key to note local regs on relocation of wildlife; in our area you are restricted to (If I remember correctly) half a kilometer (500 yards or so) to ensure one is not spreading disease or parasites from one population to another. To me that makes the entire endeavor a complete waste of time as they will swiftly return to their home turf!

Even more sad, my experience is that most folks engage in live trapping as a way to "not harm" the animal. They do it out of concern, caring and kindness. Their goal, often, is to "help" the animal return to a "more natural" habitat, based on their interpretation of what the animal requires. I believe that working in harmony with nature is most folks goal or desire (especially with this being a Permies site) and why I feel the need to share this and hopefully dispel the many myths about "humane" or live trapping.

Lastly, nature HATES a vacuum, and will race to replace or fill an underused "suitable" habitat; so sadly the trapping/relocation/killing becomes a vicious circle, where nobody wins, long term.

I’m not trying to argue. I’m just, similarly to you, pointing out the “other side” of the story.

It’s one thing if I head into the woods to forage wild trees and find that the squirrels ate them all. Well, sucks for me but I’m in their home hoping to steal their food that they depend on to survive. Not the case when I spend money, time, effort, water and mulch to get specific trees to grow in specific spots to produce specific nuts specifically for me. Not sharing those with squirrels, and if they think they will sneak in and steal them, they will be battled with. Firstly with what I consider to be the most kind and compassionate method. If that fails, as my patients will, other methods will be used.

Although your concerns all make sense and I agree with them, what are the alternatives? Crowd my yard with extra nuts to feed the squirrels and myself? That will just breed more squirrels and mess up my plans for planting diversity. Just let the squirrels eat their fill and settle for the leftovers? Why even plant the trees then, they can eat wild foods. Eat them? I’ve eaten red squirrels before. I can just put a bullet in their head eat them so they don’t have to hang out in a cage for a few hours and go explore a new territory. But gutting and skinning a red squirrel is a lot of hassle for a busy guy to get a meal outside of survival situations. I could buy and erect the perfect squirrel proof fencing to keep them out. But is me driving a gas sucking car to the store to spend money on materials that had to me mined, manufactured, packaged and delivered really any better for the whole situation than a squirrel having a bad day?

I agree with a lot of what you said and will even take into consideration specific animal’s breeding season when placing live traps from now on, if I remember. I totally believe that all things are interconnected and equal and do not discriminate between a stranger on the street, my dog, the mosquitoes biting my leg, the squirrels stealing my hazelnuts and the weasels hunting my chickens. We are all equal and all have the right and opportunity to live a happy healthy life doing whatever it is that we need to do. But there are only so many ways to handle a situation, and EVERYTHING  has a down side, no exceptions. I bought the house and property to practice permaculture, raise a family, be an inspiration to others and be happy and well myself. I respect the various “pests”, critters and nuisances we encounter along the way. Im no better than they are and have no right to relocate them or end their life. But I have the ability to, motives to do so, the equipment at hand and am thoroughly deluded into thinking that if I spend hard earned money and valuable time and energy growing food to make my dreams come true that something else shouldn’t just come and help itself while I sit back. Just picture me forcing a smile while watching squirrels eat my hazelnuts as I add nuts to the grocery list again...

When one is facing an issue with a certain species becoming over populated, often the best course of action is to support nature in dealing with it herself. Here we are discussing squirrels; what are the naturally occurring predators in the region? My guess is some sort of bird of prey, perhaps owl or the smaller raptors and hawks (merlin, sharp shinned, cooper's, peregrine...).

I would look to creating a habitat that encouraged the natural predators, and nature will correct the imbalance. Contact the nearest wildlife rehabilitation group, offer your property as a release site. They may feel the site is perfect, and be thrilled to "fill your void" or they may point out what is lacking that would explain your lack of natural predators and offer suggestions and alterations to make the location more desirable to suitable predators.

Many use nut collecting by squirrels as a sign it is perfect harvesting time.  Squirrels, for the most part, are not eating the nuts, they are stock piling them, and will only do this with the ripe ones.

Although this may offer one small comfort now, this is how forests are born: the lost caches of nuts that sprout and grow. 20 yrs from now you will be harvesting from WAY more trees. Only the hardiest nuts survive this "rite of passage" and will be much hardier than the parent trees.  

Sometimes we need to look at the bigger picture, down the road, rather than focus on the now, ownership, and instant gratification...living in harmony with nature is, to me, what permaculture is all about.

Lorinne Anderson wrote:When one is facing an issue with a certain species becoming over populated, often the best course of action is to support nature in dealing with it herself. Here we are discussing squirrels; what are the naturally occurring predators in the region? My guess is some sort of bird of prey, perhaps owl or the smaller raptors and hawks (merlin, sharp shinned, cooper's, peregrine...).

I would look to creating a habitat that encouraged the natural predators, and nature will correct the imbalance. Contact the nearest wildlife rehabilitation group, offer your property as a release site. They may feel the site is perfect, and be thrilled to "fill your void" or they may point out what is lacking that would explain your lack of natural predators and offer suggestions and alterations to make the location more desirable to suitable predators.

Many use nut collecting by squirrels as a sign it is perfect harvesting time.  Squirrels, for the most part, are not eating the nuts, they are stock piling them, and will only do this with the ripe ones.

Although this may offer one small comfort now, this is how forests are born: the lost caches of nuts that sprout and grow. 20 yrs from now you will be harvesting from WAY more trees. Only the hardiest nuts survive this "rite of passage" and will be much hardier than the parent trees.  

Sometimes we need to look at the bigger picture, down the road, rather than focus on the now, ownership, and instant gratification...living in harmony with nature is, to me, what permaculture is all about.

I love the ideas you laid out, and agree that permaculture is about living in harmony with nature... but where do chickens fit into that mix? They dont. They’re an unnatural domesticated animal that us permies all seem to be involved with. Attracting or releasing squirrel predators at home would definitely be unwise as a chicken owner. I think the only way to really be in harmony with nature is to abstain from any modern conveniences, modern domestic animals, modern foods and a modern life. Any deviation from that will inevitably cause a chain reaction of compensations and compromising, hence traps, fencing, chickens and worries.

Your mention of squirrels hoarding piles of ripe nuts without eating them is making me think if I can discover their stash, I can have easy picking that way.

The squirrels I'm seeing this time of year are eating immature nuts, specifically hazels and shagbark hickory. They wouldn't stash them at this stage because they would just rot. Think sweet corn in the "green" stage versus mature kernels that can be stored for planting or grinding for flour. They do have to eat now and can't just put everything away for storage. If they would only eat what they need and not knock down lots of other nuts as collateral damage it would be easier to live with. But the early nuts knocked down that aren't eaten now are a loss to both the squirrels and humans. Also I think squirrels bury nuts individually, at least the ones we have around here. They don't put all their nuts in one "basket."