Very surprising friend in my garden

In my part of the world, on the Illinois-Wisconsin line, USA, we have those cheerful little white and yellow moths flitting around the garden.
You know, the critters we used to call “butterflys” when we were kids.

Well, they are a real plague in an organic garden. All that cheerful flitting and bopping around is really them looking for the perfect plants on which to lay their eggs. I believe these plants are called Brassicas, which in my case means Rapini Broccoli, Cauliflower, Brussels Sprouts, Kale, Collards, and Chard. So, she stops briefly on a plant, then continues her bouncy, erratic flight around the garden. But in that brief stop on a leaf, she squirts out an egg. The egg looks like a very small grain of rice, and is sticky. That egg quickly hatches into a tiny green worm which can get quite big, up to an inch in length in only a day or two. And that little bugger can and will strip a leaf down to it’s skeleton. I have had complete crop losses in Brussel Sprouts, and Cauliflower in recent years because of this, and this year, my Kale is getting absolutely wrecked. I’ve attached a photo of one of these worms eating a leaf on a Brussels Sprout plant.



I refuse to use any herbicides or pesticides, except for neem oil, which is organic, safe, and EXPENSIVE. I only have a few inches left in a smsll spray bottle. So I use it sparingly, specifically as an anti aircraft gun. It’s much easier to “swat” a moth out of the air with that than a butterfly net or flyswatter, because of their jerky, erratic flight.  It drops them to the ground where I can exact my vengeance.

But I am unable to guard my garden all the time, running back and forth with my spray bottle, so my main defense this year consists of slowly and meticulously inspecting the top and bottoms of every leaf on every plant in this category. Both egg sacks, and green worms get squished with a vengeance. But it is an almost daily chore. I can certainly see the value in using netting over these plants, and may invest in some soon. We used it at the market garden at which I was working a couple of years ago.

This evening, while picking my first snow peas of the year, movement caught my eye, and I saw an unexpected ally in my war against those moths. On one of my Kale plants, I saw this wicked looking Yellowjacket ravenously eating one of those devilish green worms!

I will now revise my dislike of yellowjackets and their nasty stingers.

I hope you can see the attatched photos...

The mental image of you running around playing anti aircraft with your spray bottle is hilarious. Thank you for the laugh. I am that odd ball that gets along with all the wasps even as every one else gets stung so it has been easy for me to appreciate their pest control.  

Somethings to note about yellow jackets
They can recognize human faces so don't aggravate them unless you're sure of killing them.  The time my mother accidentally put her hand into a nest it took about three years before they stopped stinging her anytime she came close to them anywhere in our yard.  Apparently they gossip and a good grudge can carry on for generations.   If you must do something to a nest then try to do it at night when they're less active and can't get a good look at you.

Oh my, thank you for posting this!

I am one of those crazy people that goes all out of her way to accommodate any “bees” or any other insect critters that choose to make their nest around here.

For instance, moving the goats into an outdoor “sleeping quarters” every time the bald faced hornets make a nest in the goat shed. And never ever disturb the nests of paper wasps, no matter where they make their nests. Well, almost never to those.

Making a special “no disturb” area in my garden where the ants have their big hill. And so on.



And other things like that.

I've been fighting those damn worms for the past two weeks and would gladly welcome yellow jackets to attack if I knew they'd spare me.  I don't go into anapylactic shock, but I get some pretty good welts and get sleepy.  I've never encountered an insect which causes women in my family to go running through the yard removing clothing with little regards to who might be driving by.  Those little boogers do in fact carry a grudge and will enter any opening in clothing and sting the heck out of you just for disturbing them.  It's quite a funny sight to watch until you're the one running around shedding clothing.

I like to grow in a polyculture which is a fancy way of saying I just plop stuff where I have room. I am considering netting next year as I'm tired of the battle and nearly plopped a worm in the skillet with broccoli when making stir-fry last week (shhh... don't tell my husband as the offender never actually hit the skillet and all was reinspected).

Michelle, when you bring greens in from the garden do you soak them in a salt water bath for at least 30 minutes before processing?  That's our family's standard treat before wrapping them in paper and storing in the fridge.  

Casie, I usually spray them with a jet of water from the hose before I bring ing them in.  Guess I just missed one.  That was my first successful  broccoli harvest and will definitely try the salt water soak next time.

I have often seen wasps "harvesting" cabbage butterfly larvae and have come to appreciate wasps that are willing to tolerate sharing space with me. There seem to be some that are *much* more likely to sting than others. You may think I'm crazy (but you're not allowed to say so, as that violates permies "be nice" policy), but I actually talk to them when they're building their nest and tell them that they only get to stay if they don't sting me. I suspect that reality might be "un-natural selection": nests with wasps that wantonly sting me get destroyed. Nests that tolerate familiar humans, get to stay. More or less, what Casie Becker wrote! I think she's right that they communicate with each other. Last year a group set up shop in the top of a pipe by my tomato plant. It's a pipe I hold onto if I need to reach and pick. I didn't realize they were there when I put my hand only a few inches from their nest, but they didn't sting. I'm one of those people who have an extreme reaction that doesn't include anaphylaxis, so we will remove a nest in a really bad location or one which gives me grief. Otherwise, it's live and let live and definitely let hunt!

I learned to appreciate wasps the same way.
They can even get down between cabbage leaves and places I can't.

I try and tolerate wasps as much as I can. My husband gets very nervous about them, as do I. I suspect that is an ingrained reaction to buzzy things and the black and yellow colouring. Apparently they eat many other pests and a few friends: spiders, caterpillars, ants, bees, flies, beetles, crickets, aphids, grasshoppers, cicadas, whiteflies, and sugar cane borers (source). They feed these protein rich foods to their larvae, the adults having more of a taste for sweeter foods like nectar and fruit.

Thanks for the nice photos, Jeff. I'm with you, this is a big year for the cabbage moth caterpillars, esp. on the kale. My tactic has been to check daily and fling them as far as I can. Hopefully they're too far to find their way back.

I also tolerate whatever comes into the yard. It all works together. Except squirrels, no squirrels, lol!

Thanks for sharing the great pics! I love to see beneficial insects in my garden and encourage them by planting lots of flowers that they are attracted to around my vegetable beds. I rarely use even organic pesticides, but I do sometimes use Bt on cabbage worms when the infestations become intolerable. One treatment usually does the trick. Bt is allowed in organic farming as a insecticide because it is a natural, non-pathogenic bacterium that is found naturally in the soil. It targets only the larvae of butterflies and moths, and is not toxic to anything else, including beneficial insects. I've too have tried chasing down the cabbage whites. They are really hard to catch! The Bt works much better :)

Nancy Reading wrote: They feed these protein rich foods to their larvae, the adults having more of a taste for sweeter foods like nectar and fruit.

Interesting info you found. Did you know that Hummingbirds do that too? We don't tend to think of hummingbirds as insectivores, but particularly if they're feeding young, having insects around to add that protein is very important. More reasons for letting Mother Nature balance the scales and humans just planting lots of diversity!

Jen Swanson wrote:Thanks for sharing the great pics! I love to see beneficial insects in my garden and encourage them by planting lots of flowers that they are attracted to around my vegetable beds. I rarely use even organic pesticides, but I do sometimes use Bt on cabbage worms when the infestations become intolerable. One treatment usually does the trick. Bt is allowed in organic farming as a insecticide because it is a natural, non-pathogenic bacterium that is found naturally in the soil. It targets only the larvae of butterflies and moths, and is not toxic to anything else, including beneficial insects. I've too have tried chasing down the cabbage whites. They are really hard to catch! The Bt works much better :)

I’ll look into BT, thanks for the suggestion.

Neem oil comes from India, and is spendy.

Although I plant in 30” wide beds separated by narrow woodchip paths, and I like neat rows, my garden is not a monoculture. I plant many different vegetables together in the beds.
I discovered that nasturium and marigolds repel japanese beetles that love the beans.And last year, I bought a pound of a special cover crop blend from Renee’s Garden (or was it Grow Organic?)called Good Bug Blend.A two foot swath of that across the other side of the front lawn on the edge of my wild meadow acts as a barrier to the japanese beetles that invade from that direction (I long ago converted my front ditch and fifty feet of front yard into a wild area full of walnuts, oaks crabs, maples, hawthorns, etc, and wild prairie plants and grasses, and black raspberries) I also planted that blend in smaller patches in and around the garden hoping to attract pollinators and predator bugs.

Anyway,those wide beds make it hard to catch the moths. As soon as I get close, they bop to another row, and I have go around the long way.I really need to buy some netting.

Neighbors must think I’m a kook.

Deb Skye wrote:Thanks for the nice photos, Jeff. I'm with you, this is a big year for the cabbage moth caterpillars, esp. on the kale. My tactic has been to check daily and fling them as far as I can. Hopefully they're too far to find their way back.

I also tolerate whatever comes into the yard. It all works together. Except squirrels, no squirrels, lol!

And chipmunks! Chipmunks and tree rats might be cute, but they can be very destructive.

Chipmunks stealing sunflower seeds from the birdfeeders and planting them all over my garden, and tree rats planting walnuts, acorns, and hickory nuts in the garden is one thing ~ I usually move the tree seedlings to where I want trees. But when a tree rat chews through the boards of my shed, or Alvin finds a way in and we can hear them chewing inside the walls...

Nancy Reading wrote:I try and tolerate wasps as much as I can. My husband gets very nervous about them, as do I. I suspect that is an ingrained reaction to buzzy things and the black and yellow colouring. Apparently they eat many other pests and a few friends: spiders, caterpillars, ants, bees, flies, beetles, crickets, aphids, grasshoppers, cicadas, whiteflies, and sugar cane borers (source). They feed these protein rich foods to their larvae, the adults having more of a taste for sweeter foods like nectar and fruit.

And in late summer, they switch over from meat to sweets, which is why they are such a nuisance at picnics. Crawling into drinks, and stinging people on the lip. Just another reason I only drink water and coffee ;)

i found a tomato hornworm on my plants last year.  they will destroy a plant!!  but this particular worm looked covered in pieces of white rice.  turns out there is a wasp that lays its eggs on it & they eat their way out of the host worm!

usually i pick them off. i dont see them every year.  i noticed this one wasnt feeding or moving much.  so i hit up google.  i found out to let nature take care of that particular one.

i dust my garden. not all the time. but i use food grade DE.  i have it for the chickens. i dust them and the nesting boxes/coop.

most times i use nothing.  i have tons of preying mantis and ladybird beetles. and evidently some pretty cool wasps.

I'm not sure which of my garden roommates I have to thank for eating all the aphids off of my artichokes last week. The ants had set up their annual aphid 'herds' and I hadn't gotten around to spraying them off with the hose which is what I usually do to keep them under control. But when I went to harvest some artichokes for dinner, the aphids were almost completely gone!   There was some bird poop on the leaves but I've never seen a bird completely clean off aphids from a plant.

I always learn something here.  Wasps are not my favorite.  As long as they don:'t bother me, I try to be more tolerant.
Is there anyway to repel them for awhile, or get them to move out.  Like when you need to repair or remove metal roofing or repaint your house?

I've learned that when the first wave of aphids show up in spring, it is important to leave them in place, to attract a lot of predator insects which will then keep the garden pretty clear all season. I've seen yellow jackets systematically work over a plant that was covered in aphids. Within 3 days the aphids were history.

We've found that the more hive-dwelling wasps are, the more aggressive--bred to do the kamikaze nest-defender thing. The worst are ground-dwelling ones. The ones--I call them yellowjackets but don't know if that's their official name-- that make the communal-but not totally hivelike nests with visible hexagonal cells tend to be fairly easy to work around, and the solitary mud wasps are very mellow. They fly in and out of the loft where my desk is, and right by my head, but have never paid the slightest attention to me.

When a nest is in near a path, we get rid of it in self-defense. Usually that involves getting up at 4 AM and putting a thick layer of diatom dust in and on the hole, followed by a big rock. The diatom dust acts as a gasket to prevent them finding chinks, and prevents them from making a new tunnel. Last year we had a hive that was stinging everyone who came to swim at the river. So I dragged myself out at 4 and went to deal with it. Only to find that a badger had beaten me to it. The hive was neatly scraped out and all the yummy larvae eaten......

They have finally caught on, but when we painted the eaves of our house close to sky blue they didn't build anything on the blue for at least 5 years.  I suspect if we repainted and got closer to true sky blue it would continue to work.   That would definitely justify the superstition that blue paint repels evil spirits.

I've been noticing an abundance of wasp and hornet type beings in my garden this year. As well as a virtual absence of cabbage white caterpillars and fewer aphids, which those creatures also eat. I haven't had any issues so far coexisting peacefully with them. I just discovered a sizeable bald faced hornet nest only a foot or two above the path I walk every morning. It was hidden in yew foliage. The fact it's been there this long and I didn't know says to me they aren't very aggressive. Now I go talk to them in a calm voice to let them know I mean them no harm in walking past. Apparently, in addition to eating the caterpillars and aphids, they can eat so many of the more aggressive yellow jackets that some of their nests are yellow on the inside! Yellow jackets are the only ones who've ever been aggressive towards me, so I'm fine with the bald faced hornets.
I think when possible, working with and around these beings is worth it. Especially since it seems that most of them only use their nests until the first frost, when all but the queen perish. Then she rebuilds in a new location in the spring.

Nitpicking here.
That “yellowjacket” photo is not a yellowjacket.

Looks more like an umbrella paper wasp…the ones that make open cell nests under the eaves of your house. They are nasty looking but not very aggressive.

Heather Sharpe wrote:I've been noticing an abundance of wasp and hornet type beings in my garden this year. As well as a virtual absence of cabbage white caterpillars and fewer aphids, which those creatures also eat. I haven't had any issues so far coexisting peacefully with them. I just discovered a sizeable bald faced hornet nest only a foot or two above the path I walk every morning. It was hidden in yew foliage. The fact it's been there this long and I didn't know says to me they aren't very aggressive. Now I go talk to them in a calm voice to let them know I mean them no harm in walking past. Apparently, in addition to eating the caterpillars and aphids, they can eat so many of the more aggressive yellow jackets that some of their nests are yellow on the inside! Yellow jackets are the only ones who've ever been aggressive towards me, so I'm fine with the bald faced hornets.
I think when possible, working with and around these beings is worth it. Especially since it seems that most of them only use their nests until the first frost, when all but the queen perish. Then she rebuilds in a new location in the spring.

Yes, we have found that if they can fly above your head, everyone gets along. The only times we have had to destroy nests is when they were in the ground immediately adjoining a path, where the vibrations of people's footsteps were enough to make them fly out & attack, and next to a doorway at waist level, where they flew out and stung everyone who tried to use the door. Since it was the only way in or out of the cabin, that was a problem. One person walking by the nest in the path was stung 13 times before he could get far enough away. That's enough to provoke a self-defense mechanism in me at least as strong as the self-defense instinct shown by the wasps, and every bit as natural.

I'm thrilled to know what to call the umbrella paper wasps. They are great to have around--not too aggressive, and very effective predators on aphids and other herbivores. I see the occasional cabbage white, but never have had losses worth speaking of, so perhaps that's down to the wasps as well. In their turn, they provide food for the phoebe birds, which relish the larvae. Last year, one phoebe learned to hover under the eaves and eat the larvae out of the wasps' nests. By the end of the summer, several had learned how to do it.

I'm not sure where I learned this (it might have been on Permies).

The wasps that fly around with their legs dangling down are usually less aggressive than the wasps that fly with their legs tucked up against their body.
I have noticed that the wasps that patrol our cabbage, kale, broccoli, and kohlrabi have dangling legs and are taking the small green caterpillars that they capture to their umbrella shaped paper nests under the eaves of the shed.

Michelle,

I like to grow in a polyculture which is a fancy way of saying I just plop stuff where I have room. I am considering netting next year as I'm tired of the battle and nearly plopped a worm in the skillet with broccoli when making stir-fry last week (shhh... don't tell my husband as the offender never actually hit the skillet and all was reinspected).

just tell hubby it's a new protein supplement...Worms are tasty!...ask any fish; ( a little garlic butter helps)

Steve Mendez wrote:

The wasps that fly around with their legs dangling down are usually less aggressive than the wasps that fly with their legs tucked up against their body.
I have noticed that the wasps that patrol our cabbage, kale, broccoli, and kohlrabi have dangling legs and are taking the small green caterpillars that they capture to their umbrella shaped paper nests under the eaves of the shed.

I have noticed the same thing about the dangling legs. They fly slower, are less maneuverable, and are less aggressive than those streamlined fighter-pilot wasps that fly straight out of the nest and sting straightaway.

John Duffy wrote:
just tell hubby it's a new protein supplement...Worms are tasty!...ask any fish; ( a little garlic butter helps)

Not sure that would work with him as I'm the more adventurous one when it comes to foraging and offbeat food. Collected crayfish from the river a few years ago and even though I described the taste as a mini lobster, he still wouldn't bite (literally).  If I tell him after the fact it sometimes goes better like with substituting chickweed or lambs quarter for spinach but the time I revealed that the mackerel cakes he'd eaten and bragged about the previous evening were actually sardines, he wasn't impressed.

Okay back to the subject.   Last year was the first time I'd witnessed the tomato worms with the larva on their backs and left it alone to be consumed. The next day it wasn't moving and a few days later it looked dried and deflated.  That's one reason I'm trying to get to know the insects in the garden as I don't really want to kill anything beneficial.

Oh yeah,  I love seeing those predator insects in my garden.   I really appreciate the hard work they do for me.   This year I've seen so many predatory beetles, ants, wasps, hoverflies, and even a toad or two and I've had almost no garden damage (yet) this year.   I've put out even more shallow water dishes with rocks in them to encourage them!   They are such a big asset to anyone food gardening, I wish more people knew that!  Great thread.

I have nearly stopped spraying my plants with anything. It's hard but I'm trying to let the garden naturalize. I found about 20 lacewing eggs on a wooden wind chime and on my dragon fruit, I hope they don't die. I absolutely need them to eat the aphids and mealybugs on my guava tree, and then hope they stick around. One thing I never see around my garden is lady bugs. We have gigantic 1-2 foot lizards, dozens of them everywhere you go in my town, you can't walk anywhere in any direction without them scurrying away. I am going to be culling them soon, I have to. I haven't seen almost any monarch butterflies.

There seems to be a gigantic bunch of honeybees that made home in a bird house. I am hoping, if they don't stick around, they will leave me some honey. It would be amazing to get some honey without having to do anything. It's made me consider, even though I'm vegan, setting up a small beekeeping endeavor, for emergency purposes. I do like honey and it's the last thing I would care about eating.

Has anyone successfully minimized flea beetles? They've invaded 3 of my gardens now. I resorted to using some DE, but given I live in the coastal pacific northwest, even in the summer there is dew in the morning which neutralized the DE. I let all the bugs be with the exception of trying DE for the flea beetles. I have lots of birds around. I left aphids alone and let the praying mantis and lady bugs move in and have at them, that worked. But the flea beetles have be around for 3 years now and are just getting worse: my arugula and other greens are lovely and lacy, but not as vigorous as I'd like. They pretty nearly killed my rhubarb! HELP Please ... ideas??

The picture is of a paper wasp not a yellow jacket. Paper wasps make a flat nest and pretty much leave people alone. The yellow jacket makes a big round nest and is obnoxiously pesty, especially around food and fragrances. Over the years I also see the paper wasps pollinating flowers (or maybe they were searching for insects not nectar) so as the honey bees disappear I have tried to teach my husband not to destroy their nests.

Last summer my toddler boys got stung so many times by wasps. We took out a couple of nests around the front porch. This summer we haven't had any wasps nesting on the porch and only one sting on one of the boys' hands and I think that may have been one of the flightless wasps because he said he was picking up a stick. I've seen quite a few wasps, but they're not very aggressive this year for whatever reason. We even have a wasp entrance into our kitchen around one of the light fixtures that we need to plug up. None of those wasps have stung us. I'm not sure what the difference is. Perhaps it's the drought and heat this year? Regardless, I'm pleased that the wasps aren't as aggressive this year as I'd like to encourage their presence around my garden.

One protection factor I've discovered is setting up tall plants or supports in your garden beds such that orb weaver spiders can build their webs over your brassicas. If you don't have any orb weavers in your garden and they don't take up residence after you give them the opportunity, relocate from nearby. This has helped to some extent with butterflies, stink bugs, grasshoppers, and several other pests in my garden. It's certainly not foolproof, but it does seem to decrease the pressure and make it easier for me to pick off the sneakier ones.

I've really come to love orb weavers, whenever I find a veggie pest I like to feed it to the spiders. They get bigger, make bigger webs, have more babies, and I have fewer pests! The ones around here will bite, but it's barely more annoying than a mosquito bite.

I like our praying mantises too, but they're harder to train to stick around. Same goes for crab spiders and lizards.

We had a big nest/swarm of paper wasps this past season. I was the only one that appreciated them. Everyone else was terrified... so while we coexist, I can't say they're popular around here.

The giant asian hornets are tolerated, only because there's nothing really to be done about them. They are pollinators, insectivores, but they also eat over-ripe fruit and scare the living crap out of everyone.