crime & theftproofing a rural house/land...

This doesn't really fit a topic based upon method of construction, its one of those in between things I guess.

So a friend of mine (the one hoping to move in with me and the missus) just got robbed hardcore in a soul crushing way of his most valued possessions from growing crime, and I have a feeling with how things in this country are going the situation isn't going to get better anytime soon short of every state adopting castle doctrine or somesuch...


Does anyone have anything interesting to share on this as a general topic.  I'm considering crimeproofing to go beyond just theft because there's home invasions as well as people showing up when you're not there.


If anyone has any definitive books and references, or is like an ex-cop or something feel free to share your perspective especially.  This suddenly turned into one of those factors that originally I wasn't too worried about and now realize maybe I need to reanalyze all plans from this perspective too.

  Unfortunatly, the short answer is you can NOT secure everything.   If they have tools and time they will get in.  Spent lots of time arguing this with my grandfather.  He locked everything.  My dad was a fire fighter.  He broke into houses etc. to save them.  Every couple years grampa would come home to find us in the house waiting for them.  Never broke anything,  just would find something not locked that good.  Dads philosophy was if you lock and block everything you need to fix the door AND replace what was stolen.

What you can do is lock out the local teenager with light fingers.  What you have to decide is how much inconvenience you are willing to put up with.  Doors that you have to remember to lock WILL be left unlocked.  Doors that always lock WILL lock you out more often then I want to deal with.  Windows that have anti theft film on them can trap you in a fire.  

It is a delima, mostly I have little of high value.  The guns and gold are in a good safe.  I dont lock doors unless I will be gone more than 24hrs.   If you have a local problem the best chance of stopping it is probably a good set of high res cameras.  Good luck.  
Tom

Thieves suck, but someone whose family is going hungry is going to do what they need to do. I consider it an eventuality that one will cross my path.

Thomas Michael wrote:If you have a local problem the best chance of stopping it is probably a good set of high res cameras.

I second this. Make sure there's an obvious, functioning camera that the typical observer can see, as well as a not-so-obvious one that still covers the area you need to surveil. That way, you have footage of any trespasser, plus you have footage of them tampering with the obvious camera should it come to that.

People will stop by when they know you're not around. "Casing the joint" can reveal typical methods like automatic timers on lights and stuff like that. If there's a way to give the impression that there's always someone on-site, then maybe that will deter the less-professional crowd. The second camera will work on both amateurs and semi-professionals.

A big part of security is knowing it is a risk/reward game.

Do the thieves think or know there's something worth stealing? What sort of effort must they take to find out, and to get the prize? What are the odds they make the effort and get nothing? Are there easier looking targets? What kind of risks are they accepting making the attempt? Is what they're likely to get something they want or can fence or trade easily?

If someone standing at the bus stop can see the valuable historic gun collection through the curtainless window, and it's obvious no one's home that time of day, sooner or later that house is going to get robbed.

We recently had a thread on this very topic!

https://permies.com/t/227865/Uninviting-access

Lots of good thoughts here -- worth a look.

One of the biggy theft prevention actions is to keep all doors and windows locked.

Keeping vehicles locked is another.

Here are some of the things that we have done:

Installing double-key deadbolt locks.

Put up a wood stockade fence with the panel facing outwards so someone cannot climb over the fence.

Install motion sensor lighting.

Install game cameras.

Years ago, when we were moving onto our homestead property we could not be there all the time so we had a security system put in.

Some other good advice would be to not talk about or display valuable items.

Some parts of the country are much more prone to theft than others.  My experience that those vacation areas with seasonal cabins are major target areas for theft. In those areas having security cameras would be the best bet, but they are easy to work around. An isolated site can have a door kicked in quickly, cars can be parked away from the cameras, and faces covered.  Worse, squatters can move in and not move out.  As others have stated, let few people know where you are. Keep valuables out of sight.

Thomas Michael wrote:   Unfortunatly, the short answer is you can NOT secure everything.   If they have tools and time they will get in.

Oh I accept that, it's why having the right concepts in one's head is important.

Like there's no such thing as a bulletproof vest, just a bullet resistant vest.

No such thing as theft proofing would follow, just theft deterrence, but that takes more characters in the title. :)

How do you think like a criminal?  I guess I don't think like a criminal so things aren't always as obvious to me.  : P  There's probably good books on the subject - where I don't know which are the good vs the crap ones because i'm not a criminal.

Stephen B. Thomas wrote:Thieves suck, but someone whose family is going hungry is going to do what they need to do. I consider it an eventuality that one will cross my path.

The sad part is the guy who got robbed was the type who literally feeds the hungry at the local homeless shelters and such, the kind who if someone came to his door and asked for a sandwich he'd give them a sandwich, and some soup, and some apples to go up the road with.

Alot of times someone stealing isn't because their family is hungry but just because they're dirtbags.  : P

Thomas Michael wrote:If you have a local problem the best chance of stopping it is probably a good set of high res cameras.

I second this. Make sure there's an obvious, functioning camera that the typical observer can see,

If there's a way to give the impression that there's always someone on-site, then maybe that will deter the less-professional crowd.

This is where i'm prone to overthinking some things, in today's age of cameras everywhere doesn't that also show you have something worth protecting and then they just wear a ski mask to hide identity?  Or like if you have a really secure lock on something, that means you have something to protect and they come back with bigger bolt cutters.

It seems like there's a tier of casual thief, and then a person who might be MORE interested by 'any' security at all, and I sort things into two categories.  A yard with two big dogs will drive away the casual thief - will make the more determined one bring poison.  :-/  I guess what i'm wondering out loud is...  can we sort the stuff that works against ALL thieves vs just the casuals...


Sometimes i've wondered if it's better to appear poor and uninteresting until a trespass has occurred, and something like an outer door which has a weak lock (and proves intent) followed by a strong lock on a second door which someone probably didn't bring the tools for because they didn't realize they would need them.  : P  Like "okay the house looked dumpy and you had to open a locked gate and break a padlock to get this far - now I know someone determined is in the entryway of the house so this is alot more of concern".

K Kaba wrote:A big part of security is knowing it is a risk/reward game.

Do the thieves think or know there's something worth stealing?

That's a big one, out of sight out of mind.  The rich house in the neighborhood gets robbed first.  My friend didn't have anything in sight though, people probably came looking for something small and made off with some things impossible to replace of both financial and sentimental value.

For awhile i've often thought even past the exterior of the house it could be worth having additional interior security - like keeping my tools in locked toolchests that are kinda chained in place or bolted to the wall or something.  It's that idea of "a second layer of security after someone is already in" if the deterrents didn't work, to make it so that even if someone opportunistically stumbles in, you get the warning that they could come back (now that they know there's valuable stuff there) and you need to either seriously up-protect whats still in the house, or remove it in case they break in a second time, or start thinking in boobytraps...  : P  Course some states are turning as insane as the UK where someone can break into your house, hurt themself accidentally and sue you for having a house that's unsafe for robbers.

Argh... there are no nice or easy answers are there...

Going into my own ideas and posts a bit...  Pearl linked me to an old thread of hers which reminded me of my own experience (separate from my friend's recent experience which simply added an exclamation point on the need for security), except in my case I know exactly who stole all my stuff and city police pooh poohed things that it was a civil matter so I don't have alot of police confidence though perhaps rural sheriffs and such will put up with less stuff.  If anyone in my other postings wonders "why cant I afford to do anything the right way" well having your best friends put you tens of thousands in the hole wiping out your life savings while you're disabled does that to you.


I'd considered starting beekeeping in the front yard at some point when it's possible, i'd think that alone would discourage some percentage of people.

I'd considered mounting the hive on top of a paint shaker I control remotely if someone I don't like is clearly coming up the path.  >_>


The link to the uninviting house thread is super useful and is an example of the kind of info i'm looking for that I just didn't think about "in that way" before.  Things like if someone has to get out and walk a distance to or from the house that's a deterrent - someone who cant just throw everything into the back of a van and insta-drive from your front door.  Or a long driveway without turnarounds and where the house is hidden.  These kind of things will be in the longer term plan that's for sure.


Alot of things like not having obvious valuables wont be a problem for some time for me - grinding poverty will be my future for years - but tools and tractors are things I really wouldn't want to lose if I can help it.  Pearl's story made me sick to my stomach to read - peoples ideas of painting things in obvious fashion helps being a bit of a deterrent itself - alot of theft resistance is just trying to not being the lowest hanging fruit with the easiest to grab things.  I'd think having a huge chain to the tractor axle or wheel connected to something sunk into the foundation or nonremovably in the dirt like a concrete pier would help alot - even something which isnt nonremovable would still be an annoyance.  


Living in some kind of mutual aid community might be the only answer if things get much worse in the US (ie 2020 riots gone rural, which those people have threatened to do next time, and already did in some places) - there are other discussions of truly higher security plans that might be ideal, but aren't really an option for someone not starting out this way from the getgo - ie a community of people all parked on a piece of land somewhere keeping an eye out for one another.  I hope to eventually do that - but wont be able to for some time so it's about trying to protect things until then the best I can.  People looking for these type of answers need to look at Jack Lawson's Civil Defense Manual which is about protecting neighborhoods from civil unrest - thats no good to me in my current point so I dont have the book I just know about it.  I'll be moving into the cheapest land and may not have any neighbors at all (or wont get to choose and they may not be trustworthy) so that may not be an option for me when I build.


I know there are books on high security homes and such ie Joel Skousen type stuff.  I'd consider that a long term ideal - anyone serious can look into that but I can't afford that possibly ever right now.

He's also talked about what he calls strategic relocation - quite simply move to where there is less trouble.  That's only an option if your budget and social situation allows it of course - mine does not.  I will knowingly be moving into a much higher property crime rural area because I have no other way to live for awhile and I just have to plan to do the best I can because that's life.


We could take conversations further in this direction - there have been other extremely security minded people with fairly advanced security both decades ago and now - think rhodesia, zimbabwe, south africa, who have researched and talked about this issue - but alot of that seems beyond the nature of this board and even people with highly secured rural farms have been targeted and all high budget planning is beyond me - perhaps those conversations are better suited for email or people suggesting other boards.  I'm interested in it myself but it's all long term wishlists for safety, nothing like that will happen for awhile.  What I can impliment on a budget and without relying on everyone else (though other people watching for you is always the best defense) is what i'm looking to continue talking about in this thread for now.


Alot of things can work anywhere or simply compliment the heavier duty solutions some can afford to do - the 'psych warfare' of certain signs or the uninviting house road or pushing all of the buttons that make a thief say "inconvenient theft target" is something alot more accessible for most of us.

Ouch! I feel for your friend, and you, as I recall your horrifying experience from your previous post.

I have a small homestead in Bulgaria, which we can't live in full-time yet for visa reasons. I've heard so many nightmare stories of thefts from houses owned by expats, even down to newly installed plumbing fittings, taps, and water pipes being stolen! So far so good at our place, despite the fact that one set of windows can't be properly locked and are an obvious easy access point.

I think hope we're unlikely to have issues for a few reasons. Nothing valuable like tools or electrical goods are left on view, and I made sure people know we don't have much money. Unlike many expats, we don't turn up in a flashy 4X4/SUV, I take the bus. We simply don't own things that might be tempting to thieves like laptops or flatscreen TVs.  And the main thing - I made good friends with the neighbours, and they keep an eye on the property when I can't be there. None of my doing, I was blessed to buy in a good, safe village with a strong community spirit, where thieving simply wouldn't be tolerated.

I'm not sure of your situation, but is there any way you can join forces with honest neighbours to help keep watch on each other's properties? If you can't trust the neighbours, then moving to somewhere you can might be the best way to stay safe. Cameras and good security will deter opportunistic or casual thieves, but if it's known you have items of value like tools or guns, nothing will stop a determined professional thief.

Okay, I just read your most recent post, and am sad to see that working with good neighbours might not be an option for you. But I think when choosing land, always try to talk to or at least check out the neighbours, Praying you're blessed with wonderful honest people like my neighbours.

There is no thinking like a thief because they come is all levels of intelligence and steal for a multitude of reasons. The most dangerous ones are the people who do it for the buzz (my first real job was in corrections.  I quit after a year after I walked through a doorway and a knife passed me going the opposite direction).  In the early 90s  a person in my area was sitting on his porch having a beer with a friend. A car came by, someone jumped out, climbed on the ATV and drove off.  I know, you think that took a lot of nerve. In MN in the 80s,  someone put the tractor at his cabin up on blocks for the winter and took the front tires with him.   When he returned, there was a note on the door “ put the tires on your tractor or we will burn your cabin down.”

I recently got 11 acres of land that is right by an apartment complex, a Meijer (kinda like a Target), and a Menards (like Lowes). So far, I have not been keeping anything of value out at the property, but unless I want to waste a ton of time loading things on and off an trailer eventually I'm going to need to keep a few thousand dollars worth of equipment out there (riding mower, etc.). So far, a 20-foot cargo container with a really good lock (probably one of these https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6iMmCSayBQ) seems to be the best option for keeping things secure. Ideally, I'd also camouflage the cargo container to decrease the chances of someone even attempting to break in. Finally, while I do need to keep some stuff out there, I'll be sure to bring it back to my house when it's not needed (e.g., November-March the mower will reside at my house).

I use poachers alarms which are blank 12g shotgun cartridges with a trip wire.
They are readily available.
I have used them for yeras and often set them up in such away that it appears to the intruder they are surrounded.
I actually have no time for thieves, I have used mantraps on fuel thieves and lifting nets in isolated parts of my land, with lots of signs warning anybody.
They seem to think the signs are not true, so I always leave them in the net for a few days before I call the cops.
It cause me a bit of angst, but so far I have argued successfully about the signs being very clear.
I would ratjer help somebody than have them help themselves.

It all starts with deterrence in my mind.

Keep valuable, easy to move things, out of sight.

Sometimes this means putting them in a building such as an out building or your house.

Sometimes this means putting up fences!

If you can fence/gate your property, you have added a base line deterrent. I do not have this luxury but many do. On one side of my property I however have a mostly impenetrable forsythia hedge lining one side. This is 90 degreed to a blackberry patch which also helps.

All of my out buildings such as my shed and coop are locked. Nothing impressive for a lock but it exists.

I have internet access so I have installed a wireless camera system that I have set up to arm and record movement pointed at those buildings. So far the only thing I have captured on my land is wildlife.

I have also procured solar motion activated flood lights. I bought some cheap ones on Amazon and we are on year four of no issues. They are still as bright as the first year.

There was a string of thefts from holiday properties, near where my family has a holiday home.  Ours is the one remaining 40s beachhouse "shack" that has had minimal upgrades. Most of the rest have been redeveloped into luxury holiday pads.

My family got a local police person round to advise and he took one look at the place and advised us to lock up, but then leave all the curtains open (we'd previously closed them every time). There was nothing any thief would consider valuable, so making that point visible prevented any issues with people troubling to break in.

Bottom line; you can deter theft simply by making sure the property is not an attractive target. Don't keep valuables on site, and leave things visibly "poor", for someone peering through windows.

Here's my first attempt at having some semi-secure storage at my new property. Inspired by preppers who bury caches of weapons/food/silver in coolers way out in the wilderness, here's my camouflaged cooler. The top has been haphazardly painted with green and black spray paint while clear silicone is used to attach bits of soil to the top. The plan is to have the cooler buried more-or-less flush with the ground so that only the lid is visible. Obviously it's not a huge amount of space, and it has no locking mechanism, but it should be a nice place to keep gardening gloves, pruning shears, and a few other odds and ends.

Michael Cox wrote:Bottom line; you can deter theft simply by making sure the property is not an attractive target. Don't keep valuables on site, and leave things visibly "poor", for someone peering through windows.

"The wise man hides his jade beneath his robes."  --Lao Tzu

;)

Ross Raven, a former permie, went down to South America and observed the security apparatuses that people install on their homes down there. In that country organized criminals kidnap people every so often. They usually do this when the victim is entering or leaving their home. So the people down there build cages outside their front door. That way they can exit their house with a full view up and down the street, but not within reach of any kidnapper.

In general, people in more violent places try to develop their property into a courtyard. That way they can spend time out in the fresh air without unknown people observing them or threatening them from the street. Anyways, Ross Raven's blog is a good read. I disagree with him on any number of things, but I learned a lot.

Stephen B. Thomas wrote:Thieves suck, but someone whose family is going hungry is going to do what they need to do. I consider it an eventuality that one will cross my path.

I have had people steal things from me before, but of the ones that have been caught, none were stealing to feed their families.  The thieves I have had experience with over many years all stole because they wanted a quick easy way to make a buck.  They generally steal something that is quick and easy to sell, electronics, guns, things like that.  That said, most thieves, again, my experience only, are too lazy to go to a lot of trouble to steal.  They steal what is easily visible, easy to grab, and quick to get away with.  Just making it harder is most often enough.  As has been said already, keeping valuables out of sight is a great first step.  Large thing like vehicles are made much harder to steal if you do something like add a small toggle switch under the dash or somewhere that, when flipped, cuts power to the starter.  In the house or yard, big dogs are almost always enough of a deterrent to make a thief go elsewhere unless two things are true.  They know you won't be home for some amount of time, and they know there is something very valuable inside.  Those two things may make breaking in and killing your dogs worthwhile.

Anne mentioned good basic rules that anyone with valuables should follow if they would like to keep them.  The uninviting thread mentions more.  Few people will try to steal from you if they have to drive up a curving quarter mile driveway through woods, as is my case.  Fewer still will do it if you have signs up that deter them.  Why would they when right down the road there is another house that's easier?

I think the idea of someone casing your place and planning a heist are pretty much fantasy unless you are a high profile candidate and then I would question whether you would be on permies

Brain Shaw wrote:
Living in some kind of mutual aid community might be the only answer if things get much worse in the US (ie 2020 riots gone rural, which those people have threatened to do next time, and already did in some places) -

I don't know what places you are referring to, but rioters going rural would be the height of foolishness here and would be immediately met with overwhelming firepower by people that hunt as a way of life.  It would be the shortest riot in history.

Trace Oswald wrote:I think the idea of someone casing your place and planning a heist are pretty much fantasy unless you are a high profile candidate and then I would question whether you would be on permies

Hahaha! Most of my adult life has been in a "big city" until very recently. Personally, I'm still stuck in this mentality.

Stephen B. Thomas wrote:

Trace Oswald wrote:I think the idea of someone casing your place and planning a heist are pretty much fantasy unless you are a high profile candidate and then I would question whether you would be on permies

Hahaha! Most of my adult life has been in a "big city" until very recently. Personally, I'm still stuck in this mentality.

I understand, believe me.  I moved back to a very rural area after living in very large cities for 25ish years.

most people don't like snakes & spiders, put hand written note on door. "Honey, I Just sprayed, don't go into shed for a few more days till spiders die off" or "mom, wear your boots, the snakes are back..."  

Trace Oswald wrote:

Stephen B. Thomas wrote:Thieves suck, but someone whose family is going hungry is going to do what they need to do. I consider it an eventuality that one will cross my path.

I have had people steal things from me before, but of the ones that have been caught, none were stealing to feed their families.

Over the years, there have been a few times when there were a rash of break-ins near my property. They generally seem to stop as a result of an addict getting arrested.

Welp, I dunno. Realistically, where I live a lot of theft is minimally punished (or even prosecuted) I think the risk/reward makes sense for some people and so they steal. If your government declines to provide adequate deterrence then the onus is on you, I guess. You can make it look like a hard target at your place (locks, fences, dogs, etc) and hopefully the jabroni that comes to your neighborhood moves along to the next house.

Me, I leave stuff out in the yard, leave keys in the truck. I am setting a trap, hahaha. Try me.

Living in community is the only real solution curtailing theft. Living in Portland, Oregon I can attest to this, because now days, at least in urban settings, the thieves are often drug zombies.  So having good neighbors is not only for safety reasons, it is only way to live. How to cultivate good neighbors  . . . there's the challenge! We do it, well, more because my wife is amazing at letting go of judgements and just loving.

Jane Mulberry wrote:I'm not sure of your situation, but is there any way you can join forces with honest neighbours to help keep watch on each other's properties? If you can't trust the neighbours, then moving to somewhere you can might be the best way to stay safe. Cameras and good security will deter opportunistic or casual thieves, but if it's known you have items of value like tools or guns, nothing will stop a determined professional thief.

Okay, I just read your most recent post, and am sad to see that working with good neighbours might not be an option for you. But I think when choosing land, always try to talk to or at least check out the neighbours, Praying you're blessed with wonderful honest people like my neighbours.

Well my biggest problem is grinding poverty leaves for limited options, and I don't know how near neighbors will be to seeing my front porch - since neighbors that close defeat some of the purpose of living rurally to begin with!

I expect to move INTO a higher crime area because there is no where else I can afford to live.  I hope to pre-interview neighbors on all sides, but i'm the outsider coming in who nobody knows - and wont for awhile - since I won't have time to travel 1.5hrs from the big city just to be social every church sunday.

I HOPE I will make some good friends with neighbors over time but that won't happen instantly and cannot be relied upon and I can't control if someone else shady moved into other land for sale nearby so I count that all as wildcards that I can't bet the farm on.

Trace Oswald wrote:I think the idea of someone casing your place and planning a heist are pretty much fantasy unless you are a high profile candidate and then I would question whether you would be on permies

And yet someone hit up Pearl to steal her tractor, they clearly came prepared.  :-/  My best friend just had his multithousand dollar bikes stolen in a community that had neighborhood watch where everyone can see his front door.  This is during good times by comparison with food still on the shelves.  I have concerns where things will be in the next 1-5 years at our current rate.

We live in a world where youtube personalities get doxxed and creepers show up at their properties for years to come.  We live in a country that has imported people from other countries who are now protesting in the streets and beating up cops who don't agree with their point of view.  Is my concern unwarranted?  I don't know but I watched the city burn around me in 2020 in minneapolis and I never thought i'd see that either.

Desperate hungry people do desperate things when they lose it all and in five years what i'm saying will probably be sadly prophetic.  We'll check back and see.  In the meanwhile I mine other people's insights to figure out what I can do to mitigate some things that I expect are coming.

PS - good idea to the person who suggested signs about snakes and spiders.  Even snakes about dogs wont deter some people, they'll figure "oh i'll just sue them" or something, or they'll poison the dog to be an ass to the owner, but you can't really argue with snakes or the brown recluse. : P

Jeremy VanGelder wrote:Ross Raven, a former permie, went down to South America and observed the security apparatuses that people install on their homes down there.

Yeah this is alot in the direction of discussions people could have who lived in rhodesia, zimbabwe, south africa.  Some things different, some things the same.

I quoted the most important things enabled by better budgets and social options above - a ring of neighbors all protecting and watching each other, and intentional high security construction.  Motion triggered light and electronic surveillance helps too.

The rest of us, poorer of us, or new to move into an area have to get by with less.  Psych warfare plans and designing around impediments to what a thief wants - like having that long distance between where they can park and how quickly they can get back out.

Some things are either/or - having neighbors see your front door loses privacy but gains some theft protection yet my best friend was robbed in broad daylight where the neighbors could see his, whoever it was was in and out so fast nobody even caught it so it can still happen.  Deeper rural/down a road someone doesn't go without having any business - might keep you being seen from the road where someone thinks they'll check out the place to steal in the first place.  No clear answers here just make your choice and be willing to stick by it.

Most things for me are about "trying to get by" until things are better, upgrades can be done, heavy equipment can be borrowed or built to enable some better land planning and construction.  Personally I hope I can have friends move onto the land with me and watch each other's tiny houses, or even I move off the land to a better piece of land later in a small community.  That'd suit me fine.  But until I can do that I need somewhere to save some monthly bills while in grad school and I already lost money I should have had from insurance companies not worth the paper their promises were printed on, medical bills and school debt.  Maybe i'm already too far gone into the hopeless side of the spectrum but as long as i'm breathing i'm still trying because I already had my near death experience after I literally STOPPED breathing after one of the surgeries and had something tell me "it's not over yet you got work left to do" so i'm just trying to go with it.  :)


In all honesty we've covered most of the angles I can think of to make things better, some from directions I hadn't quite considered before or which improved ideas I had before.  Anyone feel free to add if they have new angles to whats already in the thread too.

I’ve had extensive experience in living in high crime areas, in both rural and urban environments.

My wife and I actually just moved onto our dream homestead after 4 years in a meth fueled circus of a trailer/RV park filled with either degenerates or
helpless old people.

I never had a problem. It was so safe for us that I moved my Mom into the park to save money.

The secret is to be incredibly useful to most of your neighbors, and terrifying to the rest. Wield love and fear in either hand. Help as many as possible without hurting your own positions, and prove to the worst ones that you are a very poor choice of victim.

No solution based on rationality or getting a group of people to suddenly see the light of “community” will work. Unfortunately, most people are not wired like that and you cannot rewire them.

Love and fear, however, work.
.

I am building a homestead and was robbed twice withing the first 3 months that I owned the property. However Nothing has happened in the last 2 1/2 years. What I did was put up a gate and many signs(posted,cameras, beware of dog). But the best deterrant was I took a motion activated deer sprinkler and mounted it 20 feet past the gate. This sprinkler is hooked up to a pressurised 5 gallon bladder tank that is filled with skunk scent purchased on Ebay. It has gone off twice, with photo's from camera's. One was a trespasser on foot (who I think was the original theif) and the other one was a pickup(sprayed thru drivers window).

so I live in one of those places mentioned above where people have to take security seriously. the problem with the "gatehouse" where you go in and out of your property is that only people who have really good things to steal have them, and that encourages the smart thieves to come up with new (more violent) tactics, and your danger zone ends up expanding outward.

Jeff is spot on with the "love and fear" approach, it's a bit different here from North America (here knowledge that you have guns makes you a huge target, so they're not helpful), but fear can be produced in other ways. A neighbor spotted me recently at the military police base (where I'm doing guard dog training with my dog) and that has fed the rumor mill very usefully, for example.

here i think there are two important ideas:
- you want to be the least easy to break into, to avoid the thief/addict who's just looking for an easy score. bars/dogs/etc are useful here.
- you don't want people to think you have good stuff, or the people who really want to get in will find a way, and those ways tend to be very violent. here is more psy ops/rumor mill: if the neighbor thinks you have good stuff, people will find out. if your neighbor thinks you're just weird, they'll find that out too.

Here the neighbors know that I have cameras and also that they really work (when they've had bad things happen I've provided footage: again, love and fear!). But they also see us do a lot of "poor" things (we don't have a maid, I cut my own grass: unthinkable here; my husband wears a uniform so they think he's just a mechanic, they dont know he owns the place), and they don't understand my garden, brewery, and lack of TVs, they just think we're strange outsiders, not worth paying much attention to.

I finally got around to burying my cooler cache out at my property. I think it turned out pretty well and, if not for the pile of dirt currently behind it, it'd be pretty hard to spot it unless you were looking for it. While I won't be storing anything of value in there, it will be nice to not have to carry everything I need to the property every time I go out there.

Good idea John, I have just thought how I can use it here!

I have no idea as to the legal issues, but as I was re-reading this thread I remembered I knew a guy with a remote cabin that he had to leave for about a year.   He tacked up an official sign on both doors stating the cabin was under quarantine by the heath dept due to small pox.  I have no idea how it ended up.  His cabin was remote enough there is a good possibility that no one found it anyway.

An acquaintance of mine buried a 1000 gallon septic tank in the middle of his foundation excavation. The house had only a crawl space but with his buried cement vault he created a safe place to house important stuff even with a forest fire he is confident his valuables will remain safe.

If there's no wifi or cellular reception, security cameras can't alert you in real time, but you could fake it with a dead hunter camera on a movement sensor, hooked up to a loud alarm up high charged with solar...

As with the thread Douglas recommends, big dogs work great -- or even one known biter

If you're far enough off the beaten track, the number of locks you have mean nothing if you have windows.

Imagine an area where thieves case your joint, make a list, and leave your stuff there until they have a buyer
... And an alarm installation person just came to mind as well

One of the best approaches is to quit doing activities requiring a lot of expensive tools, borrow or rent them, and get into poultry or something where you only have feed and noisy livestock to steal. I have a friend who had both stolen, but that's rare.

I generally keep cheap "sacrificial" tools in the garage at the end of my driveway. It's the most likely location for a smash-and-grab. Well, they can have them. My good tools are in sheds up the hill, in a fenced area accessible only on foot. If they come up to the gates, the size of the deposits left by the hounds (marking territory against foxes/coyotes) may give them pause.

I recall a city property in a ravine where people kept geese. At the time I thought that was sort of odd. But the geese were pretty damn territorial and raised an unholy racket if someone came close. I realize now they might have been as much for security as for meat.

Geese are good. so are guinea fowl for daylight hours.  The 24/7 answer is a or several canine members of the family, TRAINED by owners, not to bark but in the daylight lurk in an aloof manner, word gets around, we haven't locked the doors, vehicles,  barns, or henhouses in forever.  Traffic to, and around the farm is near constant during daylight so we don't need a chained up loud threat scene, just eyes that know what's up on both ends of the equation, if the appearance of cost out ways the benefit there's peace

Brian Shaw wrote:Does anyone have anything interesting to share on this as a general topic.  I'm considering crimeproofing to go beyond just theft because there's home invasions as well as people showing up when you're not there.

It has been over a year, so how did your crimeproofing stuff work?

My tactic has always been to look poor.

Also, we live in the boondocks so theft is very unlikely ...