Sepp Holzer's perennial grain

http://oikostreecrops.com/products//seeds-ecos?oc_page=page

Okios tree crops has a large selection of wild perennial seeds

I feel very honoured. I received 42 of those elusive seeds ... Because of BB20. I have no experience at all with grains. I found this thread because I searched for the needed information.
The information is not really unambiguous ... But because I have the seeds now, in September, and some say it can be sown in September, I think it's best to sow it now. Maybe sow 30 seeds and keep 12 'as a reserve'.
I think I'll sow it at the spot where I did grow flax before, there's still nothing but sedums (my 'living mulch') growing there. In general the soil in my garden is not rich (it's sand plus compost and mulch I added the last 5 years). I understand Sepp Holzer grain is doing well in poor soil.
I read about cutting, scything or mowing it, so I'll cut it (with scissors) a few times next year. And then hopefully in 2022 it will give new grains. To share with others who can grow more, etc.

My Sepp Holzer grains are growing!

In case anyone is wondering, there are packets of sepp holzer grain available as a prize for people who reach twenty Badge Bits (BB20) in the SkIP program.

More details: https://permies.com/skip

To practice branding a sign I first made a small sign for my Sepp Holzer Grains

('graan is Dutch for 'grain')

How is the Sepp Holzer rye cultivation going? I traded a scythe blade for a 100g of Sepp. Holzer rye from Perma-Dise about 2008, I've been growing it out ever since. I've turned it over to two farmers with machines, and now we have 20 acres planted here in Minnesota.

Does anyone in the USA have some of Sepp Holzer's wheat seed?

Botan Anderson wrote:How is the Sepp Holzer rye cultivation going? I traded a scythe blade for a 100g of Sepp. Holzer rye from Perma-Dise about 2008, I've been growing it out ever since. I've turned it over to two farmers with machines, and now we have 20 acres planted here in Minnesota.

My first Sepp Holzer grain is doing well ( I received a few seeds as I wrote before). This is how it looks now (December 28, 2020)

What a wonderful and spontaneously natural-looking little plot. My plants are about the same size.

Botan Anderson wrote:Does anyone in the USA have some of Sepp Holzer's wheat seed?

Hello Botan, welcome to Permies.

I understand there are still packets of sepp holzer grain available as a prize for people who reach twenty Badge Bits (BB20) in the SkIP program.

This is the only way I am aware of for people to obtain them currently in the states.

More details: https://permies.com/skip

Ash Jackson wrote:

Botan Anderson wrote:Does anyone in the USA have some of Sepp Holzer's wheat seed?

Hello Botan, welcome to Permies.

I understand there are still packets of sepp holzer grain available as a prize for people who reach twenty Badge Bits (BB20) in the SkIP program.

This is the only way I am aware of for people to obtain them currently in the states.

More details: https://permies.com/skip

Maybe you don't talk about the same species? If I understood well the Sepp Holzer grain for BB20 is a rye, not a wheat ...
I saw a short video of someone visiting Krameterhof in which Sepp's son showed a small field of grain and told a little about it in German (with subtitling). About halfway in this video:    

I'm trying to complete the PEP badge bit for building a  6 ft, 12 ft, and 24 ft Hügelkultur.  To meet the requirements I need 152 Sepp Holzer grains, but I only have 42.  

Is anyone willing to sell me 110 Sepp Holzer grains?

For others interested, I found Botan's website where you can order 100g packets of 6000 seeds.

Because today (April 10th) probably is the 100th day of the year, I had to be in the garden to sow my flax seeds. So I had a look at the Sepp Holzer grain plants too. They looked very well!. I decided to cut them a little shorter with some scissors (that's what I'm told here to do, cut them a few times in their first year). Photos before and after the cutting.

I have found a supply of Sepp's rye in Canada. It's only 5g packages but I purchased a couple and will see how they do. I'll be planting them on my soon to be built hugel mound.

https://prairiegardenseeds.ca/products/sepp-holzer-s-rye?_pos=1&_sid=affd82ab9&_ss=r

It's only Secale cereale var multicaule..

Sold throughout europe in bags of 25kgs. 1€47 /kg or 2€48/kg for organic. Probably going to sow a few hectares this year.

Even though I cut the stalks twice, earlier this year, the plants really want to produce oars with seeds. I decided to let them do their thing ...

Sepp Holzer grain, June 4th 2021

So I have just read through all 5 pages, please correct me if i got anything wrong:

1) Sepp Holzers "perennial" rye is actually biannual, but behaves perennial if you keep cutting it down thus preventing it to set seed
2) It is a variation of Secale cereale sometimes reffered to as "Secale cereale var. multicaule",  while the designation "Secale multicaule" is incorrect
3) Seep's strain has been bread for 50-60 years descending from said "Secale cereale var. multicaule" which he got in russia, and he further selected it
by propagating the best plants on the worst soils, resulting in a plant that can grow 8 feet tall
4) the non-sepp breed "Secale cereale var. multicaule" can be bought all over europe, but seems to not be as vigorous as Sepps's strain
5) People here in this thread report to grow in totally different climates than the Kramterhof (e.g. California), and it seems counter intuitive to me,
that Seeps particular strain is ideal for this. Maybe people doing this should also get some "regular" "Secale cereale var. multicaule" to add more
genetic diversity and select for their particular climate.

Furthermore "Secale cereale var. multicaule" is sometimes called "Urkorn" or "Urroggen" in german speaking countries,
other names are "Johannisroggen, Sibirisches Urgetreide, Sibirischer Roggen, Sibirisches Urkorn , Waldstaudenkorn".

According to wikipedia it is to be sown on 26th of Juni, my seed supplier says mid to end of june ( https://www.dreschflegel-shop.de/getreide-koernerfruechte/roggen/1026/johannisroggen )

Has anyone compared Seep's strain to regular "Secale cereale var. multicaule"?
Because the later one seems to also grow close to 8 feet tall:

R. Han wrote:...
5) People here in this thread report to grow in totally different climates than the Kramterhof (e.g. California), and it seems counter intuitive to me,
that Seeps particular strain is ideal for this. Maybe people doing this should also get some "regular" "Secale cereale var. multicaule" to add more
genetic diversity and select for their particular climate.
...

Thank you for this resume. I think you are right.
I got the seeds as a gift, that's the reason why I grow them. Now they are going to have seeds, I will try to do what Sepp did: select the seeds of the plants that did best here, to grow my own particular strain (over years of time). But I don't know if that works with only a tiny piece of garden for them to grow in.

I found this fungus, Claviceps purpurea (ergot fungus) in some of the oars of my Sepp Holzer grain.


I harvested all of the grain (most oars were ripe). I want to keep the seeds of the best ones (thickest oars on longest stalks) to sow next year.
The other seeds I think I'm going to eat. But I want to ask first: is it possible that seeds in other oars have no visible fungus bodies, but still are contaminated? If I eat them can I be poisoned (St. Anthony's Fire, hallucinations, or even worse ...)? Anybody here who knows?

I'm not sure where to enter this, but since it is about a new perennial grain, this forum seems to be the best fit. Apologies if I goofed.
The name of it is KERNZA and it is billed as a cousin of wheat, but perennial, that you can make bread from, and it seems environmentally friendly since you plant it once and it will last a few years. They are just starting production in MN, so you know it is hardy.
Here is the link:
https://alseed.com/kernza-perennial-grain-now-available/

I ordered 100g of Sepp Holzer seed from Botan's website https://onescytherevolution.com/secale-multicaule.html . I live in Canada, and nowhere on the page did it say it would not ship to me, so I will await for it to arrive!

Lana Berticevich wrote:I ordered 100g of Sepp Holzer seed from Botan's website https://onescytherevolution.com/secale-multicaule.html . I live in Canada, and nowhere on the page did it say it would not ship to me, so I will await for it to arrive!

AH BOO.
They sent me a refund without even an email explaining the why.
I think I know the why - maybe they have had some shipments to Canada returned to them?
I ordered seeds from rareseeds.com - which is Baker Creek Heirloom seeds in Mansfield, Missouri, back in August and September and I received those just fine.

Lana Berticevich wrote:AH BOO.
They sent me a refund without even an email explaining the why.
I think I know the why - maybe they have had some shipments to Canada returned to them?
I ordered seeds from rareseeds.com - which is Baker Creek Heirloom seeds in Mansfield, Missouri, back in August and September and I received those just fine.

The first thing that came to mind is that you asked for a grain and live in a major grain-growing province. It's quite possible they checked with the border and were told not to bother.
I was given a little for getting 20 BB's when that was a thing. I decided not to risk planting it this fall, and sure enough, we've nothing but clouds and wet. Last year Feb was quite nice, so I'm thinking I might try then? It needs to go in before the summer drought, but with weather weirding, "before" has become pretty unpredictable.

Cécile Stelzer Johnson wrote:I'm not sure where to enter this, but since it is about a new perennial grain, this forum seems to be the best fit. Apologies if I goofed.
The name of it is KERNZA and it is billed as a cousin of wheat, but perennial, that you can make bread from, and it seems environmentally friendly since you plant it once and it will last a few years. They are just starting production in MN, so you know it is hardy.
Here is the link:
https://alseed.com/kernza-perennial-grain-now-available/

Rocky Mountain Seed Alliance has Kerza for sale, along with a few other perennial wheats. They actually have a lot of perennial grains, including wheat, rye, oats, and flax. Their catalog isn't the most user-friendly though. I only found some of those because I was clicking open the page for every single variety.

(What can I say? I was bored.)

They also ship fast! I got mine 3 days after ordering. In fact, it arrived the same day as a shipment from another seed company, that I had ordered from 6 weeks earlier!

https://rockymountainseeds.org/

Jay -

That is a possibility I suppose - however I can't get Sepp Holzer grain in Alberta that I know of. That's why I ordered it from mystic prairie.

Good luck with your planting in Feb.

I sent mystic prairie an email asking why they cancelled my order. I'll see what they say. Probably exactly what you said. LOL.

Sepp grain is now about 6 ft tall. Lots of seed heads but not seeing many actual seed grains in them yet.

If any Canadians are still looking for Sepp holzer rye, I can mail 2 heads to you for cost of shipping (about $5 probably).

Here's a really cool infographic from our Penny Vote we've been promoting this past week.

paul wheaton wrote:I'll try to find out the scientific name.  Although Sepp's story about this grain makes it seem like a scientific name might not be available. 

It was sold to him as something for feeding wild game. 

There's some interesting research from Sweden for cold hardy perrenial grain here https://www.mdpi.com/2071-1050/10/6/1969

As I showed earlier in this thread, I tried the Sepp Holzer Grain (I got from Permies). Maybe the climate here is not right for it, or maybe it's the soil. Anyway: it did not grow very tall. It did not have very good ears (and some with that fungus). Sowing the seeds from my grain was even less of a success.

The climate in Austria (where Sepp Holzer lives) is very different from mine. Maybe the average temperature is the same, but in Austria there's more sun-hours and less rain, warmer summers and colder winters. Here it's often clouded, winters are mild and wet (more rain than snow).
The soil here is mainly sand, in some places with much organic matter (so the sand is black). And it's all flat (no mountains).

I just noticed that EFN is selling Sepp Holzer's Siberian Rye as part of their new for 2023 offering!

Christopher Weeks wrote:I just noticed that EFN is selling Sepp Holzer's Siberian Rye as part of their new for 2023 offering!

What they say about it might also explain some of the problems that Inge had growing it:
"There has recently been some confusion over this being called a perennial grain. This is likely due to a translation error. It is an annual grain that can be grown as a biennial. However, when it's frequently grazed by animals, it might persist over multiple winters."
It sounds like if grazed and not allowed to develop a grain, then it will persist for a few winters. It is already quite something that it can be grown as a biennial, since it is technically an annual. In any plant, the production of seeds exhausts its energy. That is the reason why they tell you to remove flowers on very young fruit trees too, so the growth doesn't get stunted.
So if you do not exhaust the plant by allowing it to go to seed, there is enough energy in the roots to come back for a few years. Also clover will persist for a while but eventually, you have to replant.

Inge Leonora-den Ouden wrote:As I showed earlier in this thread, I tried the Sepp Holzer Grain (I got from Permies). Maybe the climate here is not right for it, or maybe it's the soil. Anyway: it did not grow very tall. It did not have very good ears (and some with that fungus). Sowing the seeds from my grain was even less of a success.

The climate in Austria (where Sepp Holzer lives) is very different from mine. Maybe the average temperature is the same, but in Austria there's more sun-hours and less rain, warmer summers and colder winters. Here it's often clouded, winters are mild and wet (more rain than snow).
The soil here is mainly sand, in some places with much organic matter (so the sand is black). And it's all flat (no mountains).

Could it be that you planted it too late in the year for it to build enough reserves for it's biennial fruting?

I am sitting on about two hundred seeds from the Experimental Farm Network of Sepp Holzer's Siberian rye and I'm excited to give it a shot.

I'm especially excited to see how the grain works on a gravely/sandy/rocky hillside. I'm hoping some abuse will be welcome. The only thing that seems to really thrive in the area is a bunch of garlic mustard that I would rather not have occupy the space so we will see if it can be outcompeted this spring.

This offer still available:

If any Canadians are still looking for Sepp holzer rye, I can mail 2 heads to you for cost of shipping (about $5 probably).

Hi Kevin, I'd like to take you up on that offer....

James Callaway wrote:Hi Kevin, I'd like to take you up on that offer....

Sure James. These heads are a few years old now but I'll just send you more to make up for possible low germ. PM me or post here with your address.