Does keeping chickens actually save money?

Trace I guess it it's a great example of the variety of coops out there.  I remember seeing pictures of the beginning of your coop.  It was amazing, and what I would say very fancy. It also speaks to where you live can make a huge difference.  I live in Northern California, so my coop is basically a frame made of repurposed pipe, covered with chicken wire, and one end covered with repurposed corrugated steel, and a old wooden door.  Even the new chic wing cost me less than 100.00. made pretty much the same way, except the corrugated steel is on the bottom buried in the ground a foot to protect the chickens from predators.  I'm also in an area without a lot of predictors, so I can get away with a dirt floor.
Your comment made me realize this kind of coop works great for me where I live, but in a colder climate it wouldn't be even close to warm enough.  So I guess again where you live , how much land you have, access to materials, it's all relevant to what you build, and how much it cost to build it.  
Unfortunately the only totally true answer to the question Does keeping chickens actually save money ? Would be it depends.  Not an answer anyone wants to hear.

Matthew Nistico wrote:

Trace Oswald wrote:

Jen Fulkerson wrote: I don't know what kind of coop people are making, but a 1000.00 for a coop?  

Jen, this made me literally laugh out loud.  I wish my coop cost $1000.  I'll be lucky to get it done for double that, and that is with a lot of salvaged lumber for the framing, salvaged windows, building my own door, and doing all the labor myself.

@Trace Oswald - Please explain: if your materials are largely salvaged, and you are supplying your own labor, what constitutes $2000 in expenses for your coop project?  If you were paying for someone's labor, I could easily see that type of expense.  As it is, I'm struggling to understand...

Sure.  I have all the tools, so no cost issues there.  For the coop itself, you need a foundation of some sort.  Here that is a wall 4' deep, or posts, or cement pillars if you want a dirt floor so that your building doesn't frost heave.  I don't have rock or I would probably rent a backhoe, dig a trench and use a rubble trench foundation.  If you decide to use post or pillars, you still have to use something to keep predators from digging into the coop and eating the chickens, so you have to trench and put in hardware cloth or something to stop that.  By the time your are done with that, it's generally cheaper to build a floor and build on skids.  That will cost about $100 for three skids.  Then you need to frame a floor.  So, 13 2x6x8's, and 2 2x6x16's.  There's $120 or so.  4 sheets of plywood at $35, so $140.  5 gals of waterproofing so my floor doesn't rot, $50 That's $410 to get a floor.  I don't have wall cladding yet, or plywood for the roof, or roofing material.   I expect the plywood to be $500 or $600 total, and then I need the actual roofing material.  I'll probably go with corrugated metal for the longevity.  $150 or so.  I'll probably use pallet boards to cover the walls, so those will be free except for my time, but I will poly them so they don't rot.  A couple gallons of poly.  $30.  Nails, screws, glue, caulk, paint for the inside of the coop, saw blades for the sawzall, hinges for the doors and windows.  I don't know how much those will be.  Maybe $100?  Hopefully I can scrounge some of it.  Hardware cloth to cover the outside of the windows so racoons can't break in.  Hardware cloth 4' wide by 25' is $75 a roll, so $150 there minimum, and that may not be enough left over to make the screen door.  A rough calculation puts me at $1200-$1300 or so.  I haven't built the door yet, but I'm hoping I can salvage one.  Same with the top clerestory windows.  I salvaged the others already.  That doesn't count the gas money for the 120 mile round trip to the store for the materials, trips to pick up free pallets and salvaged wood.  Not sure what else I'm forgetting, but you can be sure there is something.  Beer, soda, and pizza for the people that help me stand the walls up and get them attached to the foundation and help get the roof on.  It may not actually cost me $2000, but building a coop definitely adds up to more than I had thought before I actually started building.  The upside is, the coop is 8'x16', so I should never need another one, or a bigger one.  I'm building it well, so it should last the rest of my lifetime+.  I'm not putting the cost out to dissuade anyone, but it's important, I think, to have some idea going into this how much it will cost.  A different climate, a smaller coop, better scrounging, can all change this a great deal.

Jen Fulkerson wrote:Trace I guess it it's a great example of the variety of coops out there.  I remember seeing pictures of the beginning of your coop.  It was amazing, and what I would say very fancy. It also speaks to where you live can make a huge difference.  I live in Northern California, so my coop is basically a frame made of repurposed pipe, covered with chicken wire, and one end covered with repurposed corrugated steel, and a old wooden door.  Even the new chic wing cost me less than 100.00. made pretty much the same way, except the corrugated steel is on the bottom buried in the ground a foot to protect the chickens from predators.  I'm also in an area without a lot of predictors, so I can get away with a dirt floor.
Your comment made me realize this kind of coop works great for me where I live, but in a colder climate it wouldn't be even close to warm enough.  So I guess again where you live , how much land you have, access to materials, it's all relevant to what you build, and how much it cost to build it.  
Unfortunately the only totally true answer to the question Does keeping chickens actually save money ? Would be it depends.  Not an answer anyone wants to hear.

Jen, that's absolutely right.  In your climate, it may well be very cost effective to build a coop and have chickens.  With less cost for the coop and a longer growing season to offset food costs for your birds, I can see how someone there could make money with them.  In my climate with our short growing season, I have to buy a lot more food and the coop has a lot more material cost.  I need a better foundation or the frost heave will have my building crooked and falling apart.  I'm okay with all that, it's just part of having the birds.  I like them and I'm not overly concerned about those costs because of the other reasons I mentioned.  I have to admit to having some amount of envy for your situation though :)

Short answer is no.  
Having raised chickens for over 10 years, I can't eat eggs from a supermarket.
Regarding soil, bugs, etc.,  they are worth it.  
You might make money from the eggs depending upon where you sell them.   Some are able to make $4.00 per dozen.   In our area its $2.00
My chickens are free range and I feed them the highest quality of feed I can afford.  Its up to $20 per 40 pounds.  
I have two flocks going , one laying, the other will be laying in another month.  I have eggs all year doing this.  We cull them about every other year.   We raise meat chickens for the freezer each year that are expensive to raise, which is a third flock.   (And 10 turkeys).  
We are cash poor and eat very well.  

Agreed. I would add it's a good form of insurance for when/if the SHTF. 5 grams of protein per egg!

As far as the cost of a coop, I have wood, hardware cloth, paint, and windows. Not enough plywood (yet) to finish the coop. Outside I have more wood, chain link, posts and gates, along with pallets that will be siding. All of it scrounged/repurposed except the hardware cloth.

When it's finished I should have spent less than $100 on a sturdy coop and run, and have already spent $50 on feed that should last several years.

I don't expect to make a "profit" off of my chickens, but it's far less expensive in the long run than buying eggs from the grocery store.

the idea I'm getting is that it's not economic,but the extra expense is worth the better quality and health overall. Does that sound accurate?

There are many factors to consider about the economics of raising chickens. I think the flavor & quality are far superior to store bought though. That makes it 100% worthwhile to me.

I do find it interesting that the other values of the birds are not listed.  My mother did a few rare breeds with each order for her own entertainment.  The feathers were turned into feather hat bands and feather flower bouquets.  Certain breeds were skinned and hides treated to sell for fly tying.  Yes it is added work but adds to potential profits.

The 2021 end of year tally showed me I got 1011 eggs, 11kg of meat and an estimated 800 liters of manure.
It cost me 510$, mostly feed, grit and wood shavings.

The commercial eggs I used for comparison go close to 4$/dz here, that would be around 330$ in eggs.
Grocery store whole chicken is 8.99$/kg, about 100$.

I checked the big box stores for the price of chicken manure. It's sold by weight so I had to guess
the volume from the bag dimensions. Around 23$ for a cubic foot, which would mean I got over 600$ worth of shit.
I can get compost much cheaper than that but still, it's a product currently on the market. The manure is actually
the reason why I got chickens in the first place.

The coop is a 6x10 open air design I discovered thanks to Trace Oswald and it cost me under 1000$. It would
have been possible to go cheaper but I was in a hurry. Next year the coop will be paid for. The coop is not
powered, no lights and no heat. I'm in zone 4b.

The feed store sells birds once a year. They sell day old meat birds for 3$ and 19 weeks layers for 13.50$.
With individuals prices go from 5$ to 10$ depending on the age and breed. Lots of free roosters on a regular
basis. My initial flock cost me 120$. I'm blessed with a barred rock that goes broody but to be on the safe
side I ordered an incubator for 310$. It will take about two years for this to pay for itself.

In my case chickens are profitable, a 1500$ investment that produces 1000$ worth of stuff in a year
with a running cost of 500$. I'm working on growing some of my feed, there is no reason why I need to buy
shavings as I have the tools to make my own and eventually I might sell feathers, fertilized eggs and live birds.
So those good numbers can get even better.

There was another great benefit that's hard to put a price on. My chickens might not eat slugs but I bet they
eat slug eggs because the pressure eased back dramatically. At a time no matter what I grew was destined to
become slug feed. Plus all the other good points mentioned above. Totally worth it.

I still am buying most of my chicken's food from the store. My very rough math is that it costs me $2 in feed to produce a dozen eggs. That's cheaper than the store. I also sell them for $4 to people.

I am not counting the cost of buying the chickens, coop expenses, or my time. But I'm also not counting the fertility they produce, and that it will be better as the chicken's food forest and other improvements are established.

So just based on feed cost, I am making a bit of money from it plus getting 'free' eggs for my family.

I've been told by a couple of folks now that feed fermentation is saving a lot of money in terms of having to feed less during the colder months when they can't free range them. Does anyone have some cost analysis figures in this area?

Understanding the ancient Chinese proverb,"manure is the first harvest from any animal," is the first step in understanding why any of this makes sense.

Greg Payton wrote:I've been told by a couple of folks now that feed fermentation is saving a lot of money in terms of having to feed less during the colder months when they can't free range them. Does anyone have some cost analysis figures in this area?

I can only give you my own experience. I gave three chickens about 1/2 cup of feed per day. I fermented it four days.

The chickens usually left a little. So assuming that the "normal" ration is 1/2 c per chicken per day, I should have been feeding them 3 times as much.

Even if your experience turns out different, I think it's well worth a try.

I can't put a price on the peace of mind having chickens and ducks give us. If things really go south (not such an outlandish thought lately) I have the means to keep my family fed with good protein/fat, sustainable on a small amount of land.

Great question.
Ive been homesteading, feeding critters every day for 5 years, started with Icelandic chickens now I have many mutt chickens, then got Jersey cows, the American Guinea Hogs, then Shetland Sheep, then meat goats, then turkeys.
By far the chickens are the most work for the least output.
By far the best return on investment of time and feed and breeding-gestation-number of offspring-rebreeding, are my pigs. They can be kept confinement style, Why in the far east they even raise them in the equivalent of a dog crate (not my preference) or free ranged on acreage.

i inherited 7 chickens a few years back from a neighbor who past away.  i never really kept a tally of costs until about a year ago.  now i have 5 girls, older girls.  they follow me around like puppies and will live out their years without being put in a pot.  they still lay like crazy in spring and taper off as it gets more hot & humid.

once they are gone, thats it for me.  i sell their eggs to pay for feed ($6/18ct) and, as they are older, they cant keep up with the rising costs.  i mix their feed, scratch grains & seeds. raisins & oatmeal.  and high quality dog or cat food.  (i used commercial feed & found it was going to squirrels & birds. plus they stopped laying all together.)  they also forage and get scraps and they love cottage cheese.  my dog gets spoonful, i eat a spoonful and they get a spoonful.  a container goes for a few days. a fun treat.

my dog is 15. she never caught food. she would turn her head & close her eyes. and then ask "why would you throw food at me?"  when i began throwing bread at the chicks, she began to bark.  so i threw her a piece & she caught it!!!  it became a game.. throw bread to girls & she would bark for her turn!!  also, one of the girls began to catch!!

if you add the benefits of free entertainment, hands down, worth it!!  work and effort, no way!   but thats not what its about.  thats not what we are about.  thats the difference.

I love what you just said, Ana. as redundant as it will be, I want to chime in. I've had chickens for 20 years. 4 years ago I started a flock with 19 birds and today I have 7 hens, 1 rooster. Predators, illness, and mystery deaths. I'm not traumatized by that anymore, but I was when I was new to keeping chickens. It's in the 90°s every day, so I get 2-4 eggs daily. 10-12 hens is a good number for me so since this flock is 4 years old, I ordered 6 chicks in the mail, planning ahead since my older girls will continue to die off, as chickens do. One baby chick died a day after I got them so I have 5. Even with shipping it is so much easier to care for a few birds at a time than 19 all at once. That was really hard, with 19 in a brooder. I had these in the house for 7 weeks😲because it got over a 100° here for a couple of weeks so I couldn't put them out. It wasn't horrible because it was just five, but had it been more I would have lost my mind. It's been practically a full-time job keeping my big girls cool! But the chicks are permanently outside now. I had to modify my coop for a small roosting area with its own door (existing) that opens to a separate completely caged run (existing, and I have the materials to expand it as they grow) and they'll be in that until they're big enough that a hawk can't pick them up. The big girls have a half-wooded half-open fenced 1/4 acre are but the chicks are the size of a pigeon and would get picked off by a hawk in a minute. This is a flying breed, and I had a hard time keeping them in the run in the last flock - one of them flew up on top of my house😲 Needless to say, I am down to 2 of the originals of that breed but because they lay the most gorgeous blue egg and are my most consistent layers even still, even with the risk of them flying off and being eaten I think I'll stick with that breed anyway. I've learned, and because they fly now I know what I need to do to keep them from doing that. As an aside, I did clip their wings. Some of the little shits flew anyway😖and of course, got eaten. I had a 6' fence but once I bent the top in, kind of like prison fencing, they couldn't get out🥳. Again, now I know this breed needs a "flying barrier" so I'll have to put that up again when it's time. The good news for me was that once they got to be a certain age they lost interest in leaving the ground🙏😆. I don't have the means to build a large covered run with buried fencing of the materials that would be required. The fencing I have is to KEEP THE BIRDS IN, but there is nothing I could build on my own that would keep the specific predators I have here out. But I'm home all the time and have a Jack Russell and we are in and out of the house all day, as much as the temperature allows. So touch wood I haven't lost a chicken to a predator in  3 years. If it ain't broke, don't fix it (I have to tell myself that all the time).
The way that I keep chickens, they are not "cost effective". Everybody has a different setup so that varies a lot. I'll repeat what some others have said; they're fun, the setup can be fun or a pain in the ass depending on who you ask, the eggs are not only nutritious etc, but literally the creme de la creme. They are WITHOUT PARALLEL particularly if they are fed organic. I sell them for $5/doz to a couple of regular customers and that mostly covers feed. Organic feed runs $27/40lb., so it's not for the faint of heart but that's how I eat and I want my eggs that way too. I keep a small container outside and the rest of it in the house so it doesn't spoil. They get food scraps too. Obviously, I don't keep them for money. I keep them because I love having chickens around. I love eating my own fresh eggs from my own hens in my own back yard. I'm a dog person, so I always have a dog, and I really like chickens, so I always have some of them, too. This is a long post, and I didn't mean for it to be🙄

Speaking to the $1000 coop issue... I think people have very different coop needs depending on where they live. Also their tastes.

In the western Oregon forest, I tried a few coop styles. In my young and naive years, I had a simple and cheap wood and chicken-wire setup.  As I lost more and more birds to predators, my coop designs got progressively heavier duty. I lost so many animals to mink, bobcat, and raccoons before we learned to go heavy duty, 6-sided coop made of very strong materials.

Our final coop design survived all the predator attacks it faced.  It is a dog kennel set on concrete pavers as the base, with the chainlink covered in 1/4" hardware cloth tied together at all edges. Big, heavy square pavers fit tight all the way to the edges of the 8' square kennel, finally making the coop safe from being dug under.  

This coop was for ducks, not chickens, so they didn't need much weather protection. Inside the coop we basically used a dog house (duck house) they could be in if it was very cold. Then there was a small pool for them to get in for water and cleaning off.  We let them out every morning and they would collect at the door to go back inside their sleeping space. Gotta love ducks and chickens for this trait!

After building it and getting our ducks set up inside, three nights in a row they were tormented by raccoons. We didn't chase them off - we needed to see if the coop would work. Raccoons can tear through chickenwire and we needed to see if the hardware cloth would be enough.  The raccoons finally gave up and left them alone. I felt bad for the ducks, because that must have been very scary.  It was scary for us!  It was so loud, the raccoons digging and pulling and shaking at the sides-  whatever they were doing it sounded like a bear.  But it wasn't, because a bear would have been able to tear open the cage, of course.

I know from experience with many animals that if we had chased the raccoons off, we would have been stuck in a pattern of doing so. The raccoons are smart and they had to find out for themselves that they couldn't get in, or at least it wasn't worthwhile.

So that is an expensive coop. It's not a pretty little Instagram-worthy coop; it's what was necessary to protect our birds in the places I've lived.  The mink were actually the hardest predators to fence out, they can squeeze through very small spaces, hence the hardware cloth.  

When we left Oregon, we dismantled that coop and brought it with us, even though we re-homed the animals. We still haven't set the coop up, we are waiting to do so when we finish our house.  My husband isn't willing to move it a second time, once was enough!  So it's in parts, waiting to go up one last time.

Years ago, I was in a business advisory group that included someone in the egg and dairy business. He complained that every other year the prices for eggs went so low that the commercial producers could not break even on the feed. Then the next year everyone would cut way back on the chickens and the egg prices would go back up. Then they would all invest more in chickens and the prices would go back down. I don't think it was quite as predictable as every other year, but the problem of being a farmer producing commodity products with contractual pricing controlled by companies like Kroger and Walmart meant that it was difficult for them to break even. We advised him to differentiate his egg production. Organic eggs were just becoming a "thing" in the larger grocery stores.
Years later, I saw a 60 minutes program regarding farmers that were convinced to take out big loans to build commercial chicken facilities (think caged hens), and later were losing money but if they stopped they would lose their farms.
So maybe we should place some value in not being part of either of these sad stories.

Just adding my comments!




Chicken for Sunday dinners and chicken soup when sick both sound great to me!

Andrew McDonald wrote:...By far the chickens are the most work for the least output.
By far the best return on investment of time and feed and breeding-gestation-number of offspring-rebreeding, are my pigs...

Now that is a very interesting observation!

Katie Turner wrote:the idea I'm getting is that it's not economic,but the extra expense is worth the better quality and health overall. Does that sound accurate?

I’m not concluding there’s “extra expense.”  Some people maybe perceive  “extra expense”, but if systems are integrated, how does one even begin to quantify expense and valueor assign it to which integral part.  If the rooster alarm saves a duck from a predator, does the chicken flock receive a credit?  I guess that’s why the theme “it depends “ keeps popping up.

When I kept 30 + chickens, the hens hatched and raised the chicks.  One time purchase of chicks for 15 years of chickens and their products.

Some folks leave a light on in the winter to keep them laying.  I always thought it was enough work to just be alive in the winter.  Why force their female bodies to produce as if it was the middle of the growing season?

I shut their doors and windows at night on very cold nights, and had their roosts up high in their house.  I had wooden roosts - tree branches with varying diameters to keep their feet bones and ligaments healthy. And wood doesn’t conduct heat away from the feet.  Tree branches are free.

Chickens snuggle together in the cold, making a distinctive sound that I have always thought was part of their communal project of keeping everybody warm through the night.  They scrunch down onto their feet on the roost, keeping their feet warm.  It was a pretty cold winter there, and I don’t know how much colder they can tolerate before they  need a warmed house.  They did ok where it got down to -20F, no expense for electricity.

One benefit of letting the hens hatch some new chicks each year is that with judicious culling (chicken soup) and from time to time bringing in a rooster from someone else’s predator savvy flock, you are creating a land race to suit your farmstead.  Another benefit is that the flock stays young.  And though they seldom receive any recognition for it, the flock develops knowledge of their specific environment, which has a survival value.  They develop a culture and together they perpetuate their culture.  Successive generations benefit from that wisdom.

One of my cheese customers really treasured the opportunity to get a stewing hen from me, from time to time.  Paid more than the commercially available chickens (organic and free range chicken), better flavor, and this is no small consideration:  though they had been butchered, they were “one bad day” birds.  Hatched to a flock, a member of the group all the days of their life, stayed in their familiar territory, had the opportunity to fulfill a broody cycle, if they were the broody sort.

The suffering involved in raising the meat cross chickens is heartbreaking.  They are always hungry, their bones don’t grow fast enough or strong enough to hold them up.  They appear to have musculoskeletal pain from just existing. They may carry the “free range” label, but that just means the door wasn’t locked every day of their life.  If allowed, they just lie in the food dish and eat, trying to satisfy their tremendous hunger.  They die of a heart attack if you don’t kill them young enough, or from the fright of a thunderstorm.  IMO they are the ultimate example of human cruelty, to create such a creature for questionable monetary consideration.

The old model of chicken (heavy breeds)gives good egg production and good sized cockerels, which you automatically get when you let the hens hatch some eggs and raise some chicks.
I believe the Chanticleer was bred in Quebec to tolerate the winter there, long before we had the means to heat farm buildings.

There’s a way of castrating the young rooster to create a capon.  I don’t know much more than that the method and practice exists.  It does not lead to a short painful life, and yields a larger carcass than an intact cockerel of the same age (like a steer, I guess).

There’s much more to chickens than dollars and cents, so many more important considerations than dollars and cents.

More than one friend pointed out that I would “never get the money back” that I had spent on the chicken house, the fencing, the goat barn etc etc etc.  To which I learned (after many repetitions of the remark) to reply that when he goes to a concert or a movie or out to dinner, or flies off on a vacation, that he is not ever going to get that money back either.

The idea of dollars and cents as THE accepted measure of value has poisoned the USA culture.  I had to battle my current realtor over this.  She overpriced my house (bigger commission😉), more than once I had to say to her that all I needed was enough to go on to my next project.  That there were enough idiosyncrasies about my 110 year old house that I needed to consider the potential buyer who would take the project on, (might be a fellow permie type)
Finally I was forceful enough that she heard me, and I felt so traumatized by having been what seemed “not nice” to me, that I contacted her the next day to see if she had time to meet, to mend fences….

Ok, a little off topic of chickens, but maybe not so off topic of assessing value and profitability and trying to figure out if something is “worth it”.

One of things that made a difference for me was making a portable coop. That put the chicken scratching and manure where I wanted it which increased their value! Also once we got the bugs out of the new system I had less trouble with varmints taking out hens. Then I bought cold hardy birds who are happy to go out and keep laying in my cold long winters. I've also bought breeds who go broody in an effort to escape the need to buy chicks every year. Eggs, manure, eating insects, culitivating, helping clear new ground and increased good health as well as a good source for a gift, oh and extra eggs go to pigs, cats or even back to chickens add up to a worthwhile homestead experience. And good stewing hens when they are past a good laying age or when there are excess roosters.

Right! Or when the same darn hen cuts around and runs back into the hedge when I am trying to put them in for the night.  I don’t mind once or twice but when is the same one and then half a dozen follow her  I put that hen on my list for the next slaughter day.

Remembering which one is a lot easier when the flock is made up of various breeds!

Having a multi breed flock taught me a lot about the “character” of different breeds.  Buff Orpingtons we’re calm and gentle and tended to go broody.  White leghorns were too flighty, seemed like nervous birds, only stayed with the other white leghorns.  (racist, ?  Or maybe the other birds with calmer natures were boring to them.)

What cold hardy breed is that Candace?

I'm always glad that my livestock hasn't read the books on what they can and can't do! Our best girl was a simple Leghorn who lived for 8 years under our care. She laid an egg every other day until she left us. She would outsmart the predators that come by occasionally for a free lunch. She wouldn't have made much of a meal in a soup pot, she was light as a feather. We always felt that our birds can stay with us until they pass on, eggs or no eggs. Not every breed is as productive, but the economics have always worked out for us.

Thekla McDaniels wrote:

What cold hardy breed is that Candace?

 I've had Wyandottes, Orpingtons, Auracaunas, with good results and hatched some mixed. I'm adding some Jersey Giants in this year. Looking forward to seeing what qualities they can add. I've read that they are fierce towards predators but gentle otherwise and very large so a good dual purpose bird.

Candace Williams wrote:

Thekla McDaniels wrote:

What cold hardy breed is that Candace?

 I've had Wyandottes, Orpingtons, Auracaunas, with good results and hatched some mixed. I'm adding some Jersey Giants in this year. Looking forward to seeing what qualities they can add. I've read that they are fierce towards predators but gentle otherwise and very large so a good dual purpose bird.

I've had them and they are gentle giants. Not a shred of aggression and I never got the feelings they had it in them to be fierce.

Paul Fookes wrote:So Katie, irrespective of the finances, the positive effect on mental health, priceless. 🐓✔🤸‍♂️

We often refer to our chickens as my son's therapy animals. He LOVES his chickens. And if he's having a stressed day, he just goes down there and pets and hugs his chickens and watches their cuteness. The dose of oxytocin is wonderfully healing and helpful.

In the end, we keep ducks for the pest control and major egg production. Chickens are our scrap-eaters and pets, who also make the added benefits of nice compost and eggs. They're a lot more loving than the ducks (we've never managed to get our ducks to stay hand-tamed. They always join the flock and cease to care about us.)

I think our chickens are a lot more affordable, and easier to maintain on little purchased feed, just because they are such great foragers. I think if someone wants to cut down on feed costs, a mobile chicken tractor or paddock shift system would be really handy. Having a low stocking rate of chickens also helps a lot! We have just 5 (4 hens and a rooster), which works perfectly for our purposes.

There’s a way of castrating the young rooster to create a capon.  I don’t know much more than that the method and practice exists.  It does not lead to a short painful life, and yields a larger carcass than an intact cockerel of the same age (like a steer, I guess).

This is illegal in the UK, on animal welfare grounds. I looked into it a few years ago.

Michael Cox wrote:

There’s a way of castrating the young rooster to create a capon. .

This is illegal in the UK, on animal welfare grounds. I looked into it a few years ago.

Interesting, I had no idea.

Thekla McDaniels wrote:

Michael Cox wrote:

There’s a way of castrating the young rooster to create a capon.

This is illegal in the UK, on animal welfare grounds. I looked into it a few years ago.

Interesting, I had no idea.

Very interesting considering how willing we seem to do essentially the same thing with dogs, cats and many larger male farm animals!
I'm wondering if it was being done with no anesthetic and that's the reason?  
Don't take that question to infer that I don't care about animal welfare, as I most certainly do. However, having just had to cope with Hubby's commercial meat chickens in crappy weather, I consider that entire process inhumane even when we actually do our best to give the animals a good, if short, life. It got me thinking about the old-fashioned capon system and wondering how it was done - did the birds really grow better because the male hormones were gone, or just that with the male hormones gone, one can keep them in a higher density with less fighting, or is it just about the taste? Or is it just that sexing day-old chicks is not easy and can apparently cause permanent damage to the bird?

(Hubby's meat birds just turned 8 weeks old and go for processing. I saw one of them trying to hump another just yesterday - at 8 weeks! That is far earlier than my friend's banty chicks would show any interest, not to mention my Khaki or Muscovy ducklings or my goslings. There are many things we're doing to farm animals that seem against their best interests!)

Yes, it is typically done without anaesthetic. And historically it was done by the farmer, on site, and not by a vet or other professional.

Not so far. I have spent a good bit on a sturdy coop and run, and more putting up a 4 foot field fence for them to free range.
We got a small flock to start, and got eggs for about two years. Then a fox figured out the fence and killed half of them.
I spent more money putting electric wire around to prevent climbing, and stringing wire hire up to prevent jumping.
We hatched and got some more chicks. We fed them until they were about 2 months from laying, and the fox figured out a way around the electric wire. Killed all but the 3 day old chicks.
We are now raising them, and planning to spend more money to further secure the fence. But once you count the capital outlay and the feed bought for chickens that didn’t live long enough to give us eggs, we could have bought pretty high quality eggs for what we’ve spent.
Naturally, if you get the system right and don’t have high predator pressure, you can save/make money. But you can’t count on it.

Lina Joana wrote:Not so far. I have spent a good bit on a sturdy coop and run, and more putting up a 4 foot field fence for them to free range.
We got a small flock to start, and got eggs for about two years. Then a fox figured out the fence and killed half of them.
I spent more money putting electric wire around to prevent climbing, and stringing wire hire up to prevent jumping.
We hatched and got some more chicks. We fed them until they were about 2 months from laying, and the fox figured out a way around the electric wire. Killed all but the 3 day old chicks.
We are now raising them, and planning to spend more money to further secure the fence. But once you count the capital outlay and the feed bought for chickens that didn’t live long enough to give us eggs, we could have bought pretty high quality eggs for what we’ve spent.
Naturally, if you get the system right and don’t have high predator pressure, you can save/make money. But you can’t count on it.

Sorry to hear about all your difficulties, Lina.

I did have a fox to contend with lfor awhile, and I don’t know if any of this will work for you, but this is what worked for me.

When I built the chicken house, I also built an attached yard. It had a connecting chicken sized door close to ground level, and another about 5 feet off the ground. I joked that the chickens’ theme song was “a mighty fortress is our god”.

The run was supported by 4x4s, had 2x4s as roof framework and chicken wire over all.  Edges were overlapped and nailed or stapled.  I made it high enough that I could walk around in it.  Then I nailed up some tree branches between the posts so that they also had some elevation changes, room to fly, places to fly to.  

If I had to leave for a few days, I wanted it to be easy for someone to do my chores… and the chickens to live through it!  The chicken yard was about 16 to 18 foot diameter, not round, but rounder than it was square… needed less chicken wire for more space than if I built a cube.

About the chance of predators digging in:  at the bottom of the vertical walls, I ran the chicken wire horizontally, and I bent about one foot of wire outwards, buried it flat a few inches deep, because I just couldn’t imagine a predator backing up to start his dig into the yard.  He was sure to go up to the fence and begin to dig.

I lived in a neighborhood with mountain lions, coyote, fox, raccoons, hawks and eagles.  We lived across the road from a national park.  The predators were there to stay.

All it takes is the electricity go off or short out, and the predators are having dinner.  The clever predators can learn about electric fence, just like dogs.  You can see dogs sort of steeling themselves for the shock, but it only lasts a little while (is what I imagine them thinking), and they go ahead and take the shock…


I let the chickens out for the day, but locked up at night.  I sometimes used premier one chicken mesh fence.  I loved it for its portability, but wasn’t willing to “bet the farm ” on it.

I lived with my chickens and guineas for about 10 years.  I did lose a few from time to time, but it was never a problem.

Eventually, the grape vines I planted next to the chicken yard grew up and over, and sometimes the grapes hung down through the wire, and the chickens would jump up to eat the grapes.

Don’t get discouraged, try to think about who is getting your chickens, and try to think like they do, and consider what they would be willing to do in order to stay alive!  A lot, is what I think.

And sad to say, I consider that any temporary and jerry rigged kind of a structure or mend that fails, is a learning opportunity for the predator, and from their point of view, each repetition of getting at the chickens, is actually training them to keep trying!

Good luck!   And again, sorry for the expense, the frustration, the losses.  At a time like that I usually consider that maybe all those people who choose the “easy” road are right!

Yes if done right otherwise old-timers wouldn't keep them. If you have access to cheap bulk grain like wheat or oats. Sprout them or/and ferment them. If they need more protein add some legumes or let them free range. You also can grow chicken feed. I'm guessing half a acre of grains could easily feed 10 chickens for a year. Also can get expired food at stores or waste at food processing plants.

Katie Turner wrote:Just curious, does keeping chickens actually save you money? Or do you just break even? I've heard someone make the argument that you are actually losing money,because it will always be cheaper to buy eggs in store,and the money it costs to keep them fed and such is more than the money you're saving on raising your own meat and eggs.

There has been quite a few replies but this is a conversation I have with multiple non-chicken people when they find out I have chickens. The conversation either starts or moves quickly to the question "Is it worth it?"

There are quite a few startup costs for my chicken keeping experience. I do not have the acres to free range chickens all day as well as Ariel predator pressure.  I built a coop and attached run that is fully enclosed and reinforced like Fort Knox. I spent a pretty penny on it, but the size and peace of mind was worth it. I spent more money then I might of wanted, but that is neither here nor there. The costs now to maintain my flock are marginal with the help of local farmers producing feed for a fair price.

What do I get in return?

Eggs!
Half a dozen a day. We use plenty, and we help feed our extended family and close friends. That has value both monetary and in relationship building.

Compost!
Chickens are amazing compost creating machines. Their excrement and ability to eat a diverse amount of things directly benefits my gardens. This in turn reduces fertilizer costs as well as waste disposal costs. I don't know how much compost costs in your local area, but it is a chunk of change where I live if you don't have the volume to produce it on site.

Therapy!
I have a hard time being in a bad mood around my hens. Their variety of personalities as well as the trust you build with your flock as time moves on. I now have to be careful sitting on a chair in their paddocks because I am becoming their favorite roosting bar. How do you stay mad with tiny raptors foraging around you? It's my favorite thing these days.

I find a lot of value in my chickens outside of the money question. I figure if I keep chickens from now until I get too old to get around, I might break even haha!

Besides, it isn't about the money. I could work two extra overtime shifts and make enough money to pay for all the extra food I need for an entire year. Or I could spend hours and hours outdoors playing in the garden. I choose the hours in the garden.

Depends on what you like. If you like chickens, the cost doesn't matter unless you are trying to make a paying business out of it. How many people spend thousands on a new car, or a camper, or clothing shopping because that's what they like? If I spent thousands on a chicken coop, that's my concern. As long as I am not shorting my wife or kids.

Thom Bri wrote: How many people spend thousands on a new car, or a camper, or clothing shopping because that's what they like?

When my son is agonizing over buying something, one of the things I was known to say when he was younger, "what do your friends spend going to a fancy movie theater for 1 evening's entertainment?" and now that he's older, "what you many young people spend on a Friday night at a bar?"

So, I agree, if you get pleasure, enjoyment and "pets with benefits" from raising chickens, there are far worse hobbies out there. However, there are ways to use them as "working pets" and ways to help reduce their ongoing costs while giving them a happy healthy lifestyle. This year I've had two hens do the "self-replicating" trick, which is sure cheaper and less work than buying and raising day olds! Not no work, but a lot less! And they are pretty entertaining!

I don't know if anyone's brought up the topic of feeding your chickens commercial feed.
We've been raising chickens for around 15 years and we've had broody hens that hatched out batches of chicks and we got a next generation for next to nothing.
We've had aerial predators take some chickens, we've had foxes run off with chickens in their mouths.
We've had a few roosters that had to prove who was at the top of the rooster pecking order.
The  negatives aside I definitely think that raising chickens is a great thing to do on a homestead, it gives you fresh eggs and or meat and a certain feeling of self-sufficiency.
The only issue I have with raising your own chickens is that if you are feeding them commercial feed, egg mash or cracked corn then you're still likely getting eggs and or meet that has some chemical infiltration.You can free range your chickens during the summer and that cuts down on the commercial feed problem somewhat.
Ideally you raise your own feed which is not always practical or find a local farmer that doesn't use pesticides and herbicides.
And though organic eggs in the store are around $5 a dozen, in that case you are at least somewhat assured that the eggs will be free of chemicals and the like.
The commercial feed issue has always been more or less thorn in my side with raising chickens.
Though even at that your eggs are most likely still superior to the average store egg!