BB clarification thread

Hello SKIPpers, let's try something.  If you're looking at a BB and need clarification on a requirement, try posting in this thread to get an answer.  

More often than not you'll get a wishy-washy answer since everyone's just doing their best.  But maybe sometimes it will kick off a change to a BB to make it more clear.

Do not assume that every minor issue will be fixed.  That would be an unending job requiring paid staff.

Hopefully we can catch some obvious areas where a BB requirement could be improved.

let's try it !

I was looking at the shovel snow bb.
Normally here i compact the snow to walk on it, it does not seem energy effective to shovel it just for myself. But next time it fall, could i only plow the fresh one on my compact trail? or does ithe shoveling need to go straight to the ground ? And most of the video  seems to be on hard surface, asphalt, ciment etc. Are this a requirement ? could it be a trail to go somewhere directly on the lawn ?

Raphaël Blais wrote:let's try it !

I was looking at the shovel snow bb.
Normally here i compact the snow to walk on it, it does not seem energy effective to shovel it just for myself. But next time it fall, could i only plow the fresh one on my compact trail? or does ithe shoveling need to go straight to the ground ? And most of the video  seems to be on hard surface, asphalt, ciment etc. Are this a requirement ? could it be a trail to go somewhere directly on the lawn ?

I had this question myself when I first looked at that BB.  Going through the other submissions I saw that others had shoveled "walks" that were not paved and got approved.  I certainly agree with this since to my mind if an unpaved walkway will work it seems much more permie to keep it that way rather than to use the energy and resources to pave it.

I just submitted my shoveling of just what you are asking about, trails/paths going directly across my yard to out buildings and it was approved.  I also did not shovel all the way down to bare ground.  In my experience it actually works better in these situations to get a packed layer first and then shovel off that.  The packed layer starts acting like paving with regards to ease of shoveling!  If you have a packed snow layer though and your are shoveling off just new fallen snow for the BB I feel like it would a good idea to make it easy on those certifying to make sure it's clear you are shoveling a layer that is obvious without a doubt in excess of the required inch.  Images of a mere inch of white on white could be hard to determine!

Continuing questions about snow-shoveling: can I shovel six ten-foot paths instead of one sixty-footer? Do I get more credit for shoveling two feet of snow instead of one inch? It seems like these kinds of permutations are sometimes welcomed for a BB and sometimes not, and I'm not sure of the foundational principle that decides which way it goes.

Christopher Weeks wrote:Continuing questions about snow-shoveling: can I shovel six ten-foot paths instead of one sixty-footer? Do I get more credit for shoveling two feet of snow instead of one inch? It seems like these kinds of permutations are sometimes welcomed for a BB and sometimes not, and I'm not sure of the foundational principle that decides which way it goes.

I think in this case the permutation would not be welcome. I see the goal in demonstrating you can maintain a trail or walking pathways if i read the title ok. It is not about a volume or surface area, or it would have been named differently.

I was about to submit a BB in  https://permies.com/wiki/111644/pep-plumbing-hot-water/Fix-Leaky-Faucet-PEP-BB  but have a feeling because I fixed the pipe underneath the faucet which was leaking, and not the faucet element itself, someone might decide I didn't fix the faucet. So, does it go to that BB or to an ODDBALL job?

Sean Flip wrote:I was about to submit a BB in  https://permies.com/wiki/111644/pep-plumbing-hot-water/Fix-Leaky-Faucet-PEP-BB  but have a feeling because I fixed the pipe underneath the faucet which was leaking, and not the faucet element itself, someone might decide I didn't fix the faucet. So, does it go to that BB or to an ODDBALL job?

If i am not mistaken, you should submit it in fixing a leak in a drain !
Fix a leak in a drain pipe - plumbing.straw.DWVleak PEP BB

EDIT: oups, you meaned the water intake pipe, not the drainage one?

Sean Flip wrote:I was about to submit a BB in  https://permies.com/wiki/111644/pep-plumbing-hot-water/Fix-Leaky-Faucet-PEP-BB  but have a feeling because I fixed the pipe underneath the faucet which was leaking, and not the faucet element itself, someone might decide I didn't fix the faucet. So, does it go to that BB or to an ODDBALL job?

Are you saying you fixed the drain pipe, or fixed what I call the "shut off valve" that stops water from getting to the faucet?

Jay Angler wrote:

Sean Flip wrote:I was about to submit a BB in  https://permies.com/wiki/111644/pep-plumbing-hot-water/Fix-Leaky-Faucet-PEP-BB  but have a feeling because I fixed the pipe underneath the faucet which was leaking, and not the faucet element itself, someone might decide I didn't fix the faucet. So, does it go to that BB or to an ODDBALL job?

Are you saying you fixed the drain pipe, or fixed what I call the "shut off valve" that stops water from getting to the faucet?

Fixed GASKET

Sean Flip wrote:Fixed GASKET

I think you're looking at this one: https://permies.com/wiki/112757/pep-plumbing-hot-water/Repair-Trap-PEP-BB-plumbing

Christopher Weeks wrote:

Sean Flip wrote:Fixed GASKET

I think you're looking at this one: https://permies.com/wiki/112757/pep-plumbing-hot-water/Repair-Trap-PEP-BB-plumbing

I concur with Christopher.  This sounds like the repair the P-Trap one.

Christopher Weeks wrote:

Sean Flip wrote:Fixed GASKET

I think you're looking at this one: https://permies.com/wiki/112757/pep-plumbing-hot-water/Repair-Trap-PEP-BB-plumbing

Thanks! staring me right in the face.

David Huang wrote:

Christopher Weeks wrote:

Sean Flip wrote:Fixed GASKET

I think you're looking at this one: https://permies.com/wiki/112757/pep-plumbing-hot-water/Repair-Trap-PEP-BB-plumbing

I concur with Christopher.  This sounds like the repair the P-Trap one.

Whoops! thanks

Since I'm the one who certified David's snow shoveling last night I'll provide my thoughts on that. I take the written words in the requirements literally.  The instructions say at least one inch of snow. Doesn't say anything about extra credit for additional. So there's that. It says clear a walk. It doesn't say sidewalk. If it said sidewalk it would have been rejected. It doesn't say clear all the way to bare ground or pavement. I think the intent of the BB is to make the walkway safer & easier to use. It far exceeded the length required & looked safer & easier to use so it was certified.

The question about shoveling six 10 foot walks is a bit tougher to answer. Ten feet doesn't seem like much of a walkway to me. I'd be more inclined to certify it if the person cleared TWELVE 10 foot paths. Far exceeding the minimum. After all, the instructions clearly says "an after picture of the shoveled walk that is obviously 60 feet or longer". To me that means one walk.

I hope this thread leads to some great questions!

Thanks for starting this thread Mike. I’ve been a bit confused about the indoor willow feeder BB. I’ll quote my initial post here and link to the topic I started on the subject…

https://permies.com/t/209458/Indoor-willow-feeder-ideas#1758655

https://permies.com/wiki/156826/pep-greywater-willow-feeders/Build-Indoor-Willow-Feeder-PEP#1229433

I’m considering making an indoor willow feeder that would meet the PEP BB:
Indoor willow feeder BB

I recognize I’ll probably end up living in my temporary shelter a long time while building a house to code. So I’d really like an indoor toilet for Michigan winters. All I could find on the forums was the toilet for Cooper Cabin:
Cooper cabin

The description for the PEP BB mentions a fan. I’m not sure what is needed here to meet the requirement. Does Cooper cabin have a fan?

Are there any other examples of indoor willow feeders that might meet the BB(or come close to it)?
Has anyone done this BB yet?

I’m wondering how the toilet at Cooper cabin has worked out. I’m guessing it’s been talked about in a podcast, or maybe somewhere on the forums I haven’t found yet. In particular, I’m wondering about smells.

Christopher Weeks wrote:Continuing questions about snow-shoveling: can I shovel six ten-foot paths instead of one sixty-footer? Do I get more credit for shoveling two feet of snow instead of one inch? It seems like these kinds of permutations are sometimes welcomed for a BB and sometimes not, and I'm not sure of the foundational principle that decides which way it goes.

You can do some split ups, I didn't measure so don't know how long is from my front door to street but I had before and after shots of that and out my back door that has an 18 ft staircase and was certified.

SInce it is not specify, i think a can clean my wood cookstove oven in this case ?

BB clean an oven

Raphaël Blais wrote:SInce it is not specify, i think a can clean my wood cookstove oven in this case ?
BB clean an oven

wondering if there has been a size expectation

Is that kind of oven safe to clean with water and baking soda?

It implies a baking oven, but nothing about the fuel.  so maybe include an extra pic of you using the cleaned oven so it's obvious to those who don't know this kind of cooker.

Opalyn Rose wrote:wondering if there has been a size expectation

Did not see anything, it seems to be centered around the oven and using only water and baking soda. Mine is big enough to cook a whole chicken.

r ranson wrote:Is that kind of oven safe to clean with water and baking soda?

It implies a baking oven, but nothing about the fuel.  so maybe include an extra pic of you using the cleaned oven so it's obvious to those who don't know this kind of cooker.

Yes, safe when not burning wood. Good tip, i'll cook somethibg afterward and photograph it.

If one submits a BB missing a photo, or with a photo needing clarification (which happened on my “peel 2 logs” and hugelkulture Submissions), it seems editing/adding the clarification or photos doesn’t then result in the BB’s approval.

Or, does that happen?

So, I end up resubmitting (new post) with extra/improved photos to help the reviewer. This happened twice in my case, and both BBs were subsequently approved.

Then, I edited my original BB submission, deleting all the photos to keep the thread free of duplicates / clutter.

After photo clarification / completion, my original “peel 2 logs” submission was deleted by someone, which I feel is the right move. My original flagged hugel submission still stands, however.

I posit if one submits a flag-able BB and needs to redo it entirely (which was the case for me with “4 lbs of seed balls” lacking required # of Nitrogen fixers) there is value in keeping the failed one up as it exemplifies what not to do. However, if the poster didn’t redo the BB, just added a forgotten photo or zoomed in to make something more clear, deleting the original makes sense to me.

Are these useful thoughts?

I see what happened Sean. The way to prevent this sort of thing in the future is once a rejected BB is updated by editing it needs to be re-selected as a BB. That will alert reviewers that it is ready to look at again. The button is sort of hidden. Push the three dots (...) to find that. If you can't find the button just edit the original post then use the report button. That will minimize the possibility of a lingering deduction or waiting too long for another review.

I noticed there was a similar situation with your hugel BB so I corrected that by deselecting the first one as a BB.

Kevin David wrote:Thanks for starting this thread Mike. I’ve been a bit confused about the indoor willow feeder BB. I’ll quote my initial post here and link to the topic I started on the subject…

Thanks Kevin, that BB is a bit unclear.  Some adjustments have been made to hopefully clarify it a bit.

My submission for the badge bit commerce.sand.selling has been flagged as edge, wich i can understand the point by the reviewers. How should i demonstrate it since i don't use invoice ?

Edge submission

And maybe a second point, i don't want tu hurt the reviewer, i just want to express that i know how badge worksand  i proved that i can do many of them. I showed that i grow many garlic and i don't do 600+ of them for fun or just myself. So i take it a little bad when it is needed more proof, it's like saying i'm lying about it? i know it was not the intention, i was just feeling low this morning...

Yeah, those selling BBs are really tough to show proof.  Especially ones with cash.  I think I had to get a picture of me and the person exchanging money.  Even that was a bit on the edge I think.

For cash transactions I suspect the only bullet-proof method would be a video of you and the customer interacting.  For app based exchanges, having some words on the invoice that indicate the purpose of the transaction are quite helpful.

For all these BBs there is a fuzzy line that the requirements try to work around.  Hard enough to make cheating more trouble than it's worth yet not so hard that everyone suffers unduly.  For the selling BBs I think the fuzzy line has to be a bit more towards the suffering side.

I am sure you did sell that excess garlic, we just need to try to keep the standards high and avoid creating slippery slopes.  Sorry you're feeling low, you're doing a great job though!

One of the biggest value SKIP has to an otis is that it shows the ability to follow instructions.

They haven't met you and don't know how lovely you are.  The reviewers follow the same standard.  So it's important to make things as obvious as possible so it's easy for the reviewer to approve.

So let's look at the requirements.

To get certified for this BB, post the following:
- show that you made, harvested, grew, or foraged the item(s)
- show the price is at least $20
- provide proof that it sold

I agree with the reviewer.
It specifically asks for proof.

Nice looking garlic by the way.

What would proof that the item sold look like?

An invoice or receipt itemising what the payment is for with the date is usual.   I see one bb has a copy of a conversation spelling out what is in the transaction. That sort of thing.

Thanks you two ! I will keep all that in mind to try again for it. Anyway,  I don't think i will be able to fulfill the complete sand badge of commerce. And i was not counting on it for realising the Pep1 badge. My luck that only 16 sand badge are required!

Thanks again.

I got stuck on the comerce one too.  They clarrified the requirements while I was half way through.  Maybe one day I'll get myself together and do the thing.  

There were a number of badges I didn't think I could get but eventually the opportunities presented themselves and I could knock them out.  Keep at it, you're doing great!

Thanks Mike! Yeah i have seen that! top15 in the learderbord for the badge bits! It is rewarding, i love it. Maybee i can pass in the top10 this spring-summer. I'm lucky to have a similar environnement to wheaton labs, it helps for many badges.

The "after" pic of sanding and oiling some beat shovel and rake handles.  Oddball submission?

What's the question?  

Sean Flip wrote:The "after" pic of sanding and oiling some beat shovel and rake handles.  Oddball submission?

I think so.  There's a BB for cleaning, derusting and oiling a shovel but it's mainly talking about the metal parts.  So I think it's a fit for Oddball or Homesteading Oddball (I could be wrong...)

I have been wondering if for the quilted baby blanket where it ask for 30" x 30" or larger so would 2 ft x 3ft/ 24" x 36 be alright.  It would be the same sqaure footage just rectangle instead of square.
quilted baby blanket bb

After reading the infos, personnally i would accept the submission if the square footage would be equal or more. But 30''x30''=900square inch is not equal to 24''x36''=864square inch.

my experience with baby blankets is that they are square (for swaddling) so I probably would not approve even if the square footage was the same or greater.  I would approve of a larger blanket with each side being 30" or more but would prefer to see it remain square.

To complete this BB, the requirements are:
- minimum size: 30" x 30”

I don't know the reasoning behind this particular spec but there is a reason. I think it would be best to follow the requirements as printed.

My memory says that there was a specific reason for measurements instead of square feet.   Can't remember why, but we spent much of an hour making the decision of the size and getting the wording right.

Most of the textile bbs have at least 2 hours invested in getting the wording right.

Some have over 40 hours and input from a dozen people and still need a bit more polishing.

Thank everybody for their input. I really appreciate me not buying cotton batting special for this and then finding out it's not eligible. The blanket I'm working on is really a lap blanket, but I do normally make baby blankets square though floor blankets to thick to really swaddle with.