Prevention and treatment for novel coronavirus COVID 19

The idea of what an autoimmune disease is and how it comes about is changing quickly and newer ideas make more sense than the older ideas still popular in mainstream medicine. Many people who end up with autoimmune diseases were reacting to toxins and/or had inflamed and leaky guts that started the process of them reacting to foods, herbs or an infectious condition that instigated an autoimmune condition. These people will often react to more and more things including themselves. Some of them will react to many herbs in a negative manner, not just immune system herbs.

WOW!  Sharol, thank you so much.

This explains a huge amount of my life and why healing herbs so often hurt me.  

“An early concern for application of a SARS-CoV vaccine was the experience with other coronavirus infections which induced enhanced disease and immunopathology in animals when challenged with infectious virus"
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3335060/

"Inactivated MERS-CoV vaccine appears to carry a hypersensitive-type lung pathology risk from MERS-CoV infection that is similar to that found with inactivated SARS-CoV vaccines from SARS-CoV infection.”
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27269431

https://www.loc.gov/law/foreign-news/article/china-vaccine-law-passed/

"According to the Law, China is to implement a state immunization program, and residents living within the territory of China are legally obligated to be vaccinated with immunization program vaccines, which are provided by the government free of charge."

"The Law will take effect on December 1, 2019"

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/01/wuhan-seafood-market-may-not-be-source-novel-virus-spreading-globally

"In the earliest case, the patient became ill on 1 December 2019 and had no reported link to the seafood market"

https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn4417-china-to-give-first-sars-vaccine-to-people/

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/china-to-test-risky-sars-vaccine/

https://www.chinadaily.com.cn/english/doc/2005-08/06/content_466753.htm

"...the genetic data is highly suggestive of a single-point introduction into the human population followed by sustained human-to-human transmission."
http://virological.org/t/clock-and-tmrca-based-on-27-genomes/347

Sharol Tilgner wrote: Systemically, in the body a virus hides inside our own cells. There is rarely going to be direct contact with a virus unless it is on the external skin or mucous membranes of the gastrointestinal tract, such as in a herpes infection that is flaring up and the herpes is at skin/mucous membrane level (where you see the sore). The rest of the time it is hiding in the nervous system and no antiviral herb can get at it. This is why viruses can not be killed similarly as bacteria. The way that herbs called antiviral herbs actually work in the body is through the immune system. ...

A good thread and addition to it with the discussion on the major known anti-viral effect from herbal medicine.  Just to add that, with continued research on herbals and the possible constituents that underlie their efficacy, I could certainly imagine a day or scenario where we do in fact find herbal compounds that interact directly with viruses and/or and their stages of reproduction.  Similar to the modes of transport and action of acyclovir on Herpes Simplex and the many anti-HIV drugs that target the virus within the host cells that they infect, these are active following drug ingestion after which they enter the bloodstream and make their way to target *active* virus replication complexes within host cells.  With the dizzying array of compounds that Mother Nature has produced over the eons, it would not be surprising that some of these compounds might have qualities allowing them to permeate tissues and cell membranes and enabling their interaction with the varying stages of virus multiplication.  But the point is well taken:  We just don't know about these possibilities at this stage of our understanding, whereas the immune-modulating effects are now fairly well described.

Sharol Tilgner wrote:

The way that herbs called antiviral herbs actually work in the body is through the immune system.  

As I recall, elderberry has a compound that acts on some viruses directly, in addition to its effect on the immune system. I'm going by memory, because I don't have the research study right in front of me. But it had something to do with the way elderberry would bind to the receptor that the virus uses to latch on to a new cell, thus preventing it from entering cells to replicate.

I'll see if I can dig up that article again. My Pubmed searching skills seem to be on the fritz today.

Ellendra Nauriel wrote:

Sharol Tilgner wrote:

The way that herbs called antiviral herbs actually work in the body is through the immune system.  

As I recall, elderberry has a compound that acts on some viruses directly, in addition to its effect on the immune system. I'm going by memory, because I don't have the research study right in front of me. But it had something to do with the way elderberry would bind to the receptor that the virus uses to latch on to a new cell, thus preventing it from entering cells to replicate.

I'll see if I can dig up that article again. My Pubmed searching skills seem to be on the fritz today.

Yes indeed, Ellendra - you are right!  I just found this i.e. scientifically endorsed recognition that elderberry has antiviral properties.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11399518

Ellendra Nauriel wrote:

As I recall, elderberry has a compound that acts on some viruses directly, in addition to its effect on the immune system. ......... it had something to do with the way elderberry would bind to the receptor that the virus uses to latch on to a new cell, thus preventing it from entering cells to replicate.

This may be the abstract to the article to which you are referring, Ellendra, although there may be others cited within this paper that are closer to what you are remembering:

Abstract
Elderberry extract is effective in treatment of flu. This study aimed to determine the mechanism of action of elderberry and its primary active compound, cyanidin 3-glucoside (cyn 3-glu), against influenza virus. The direct effect was studied via hemagglutination inhibition assay, plaque reduction assay, and flow cytometry analysis. In addition, to assess the indirect immunomodulatory effect, the modulation of pro-inflammatory cytokines was evaluated. Elderberry showed mild inhibitory effect at the early stages of the influenza virus cycle, with considerably stronger effect (therapeutic index of 12 ± 1.3) in the post-infection phase. Our data further support both direct effects of elderberry extract by blocking viral glycoproteins as well as indirect effects by increased expression of IL-6, IL-8, and TNF. Cyn 3-glu despite demonstrating a similar direct mechanism of action (IC50 of 0.069 mg/ml) compared to the elderberry juice, did not affect the expression of pro-inflammatory cytokines. In conclusion, elderberry exhibits multiple modes of therapeutic action against influenza infection.  --  https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1756464619300313

So this would constitute a direct blocking to viral entry into the cell by a specific compound from an herbal extract.

Nevertheless and perhaps somewhat surprisingly, this would still be considered an "in vitro" assay, not a whole organism assay, and as such would provide possible clues but not proof of its mode of action in the body.  Another example would be antibiotics and let's use penicillin as an example.  Long before penicillin was purified and known....and long before it was even known what viruses, bacteria and fungi even were.....it was observed that moldy bread could cure some infections.  Once they actually did purify penicillin from Penicillium fungus and showed that is was able to function (a) to kill bacteria in culture and (b) NOT to kill the human/organism taking it as a drug, and (c) eliminate the infection upon drug ingestion/application, that spawned the public and private efforts of looking for new chemicals, from any and all sources, that could do the same and even do so for fungal and viral infections.  What was soon learned was that it was possible to find *many* compounds that could kill or inhibit the growth of microbes *in culture*, but not in the biological context in which it was desired they would be used.  So in the current case with Cyn 3-glu in the abstract above, it would certainly be parsimonious to conclude that inhibition in the plaque reduction assay and haemagglutination assay were proof that this is what happens in the body...in the whole context of a biological organism...but it's been shown many times over that this might not be the case.  So more experiments are needed to obtain this deeper evidence.  This in no way negates, in my mind, the importance of studies such as those posted above in the abstract.  They are simply one of many angles of evidence that must be obtained to confirm a cause-effect relationship. And clearly herbalists throughout time have not needed this level of analysis to make the connections for which concoctions work to provide which effect.

I thought I'd share this here in case anyone is interested.  Chris Martenson over at Peakprosperity.com has been providing excellent near daily updates about the coronavirus in a series of videos.  On the main website (not the YouTube channel) these are then usually followed with a quality commentary section much like the sorts of discussions we have here on Permies.  One of the members of the site has now gone through a lot of effort to condense down comments from many different video updates to categorize them into related groups for a discussion thread/reference post.  Here is a link to the one on medicinal herbals and supplements.  Also related to what we've been discussing in this thread is this other condensed section of comments on sanitation, personal protection equipment, and self quarantine.

Hi John W

Great post.

I recommend horseradish for lungs and respiratory  issues. Horse radish is an expectorant and opens airways.

Onion poultices on chest, back or sole of feet clears lungs.

Make. Fire cider/tonic. Builds immune systems and works as a natural antiviral  I add horseradish to this too. Make this now it needs to ferment for 4 to 6 weeks. I will keep fresh as well as dehydrate and scoop into capsules.  

Nutmeg contains copper. Copper water in small amounts can be added to drinking water and vinegar kills germs both inside and outside the body. Use for cleaning and as hand wipes.

Make natural hand sanitizer with aloe vera jel, tea tree and peppermint essential oil.

For cough make cough drops using a strong tea as base. Add colloidal copper and collodial zinc with eucalyptus and peppermint essential oil, Also add a few pinches of menthol flakes at the end of cooking the sugar and tea.

Hardy orange has anti cytokine storm potential

Anti-inflammatory effect of Poncirus trifoliata fruit through inhibition of NF-?B activation in mast cells

Toxicology in Vitro, Volume 20, Issue 7, October 2006, Pages 1071–1076
Abstract
Mast cell-mediated allergic inflammation is involved in many diseases such as asthma, sinusitis, and rheumatoid arthritis. Mast cells induce synthesis and production of pro-inflammatory cytokines including tumor necrosis factor (TNF)-? and interleukin (IL)-6 with immune regulatory properties. We investigated the effect of the fruits of Poncirus trifoliata (L.) Raf (Rutaceae) (FPT) on expression of pro-inflammatory cytokines by activated human mast cell line, HMC-1. FPT dose dependently decreased the gene expression and production of TNF-? and IL-6 on phorbol 12-myristate 13-acetate (PMA) and calcium ionophore A23187-stimulated HMC-1 cells. In addition, FPT attenuated PMA and A23187-induced activation of NF-?B indicated by inhibition of degradation of I?B?, nuclear translocation of NF-?B, NF-?B/DNA binding, and NF-?B-dependent gene reporter assay. Our in vitro studies provide evidence that FPT might contribute to the treatment of mast cell-derived allergic inflammatory diseases

Hat tip to deane Greene of eat the weeds fame

As we are going through some colds in our family (I am almost through, younger daughter is just in the middle with sore throat and pains), I thought it would be a good time to brew the EMOLIENTE that my Peruvian neighbour brought from his last trip home.

This is a brew made of different ingredients that is both used hot for cold season and iced as a refreshment in summer (I did not know about this drink before he gave me the packet).
Here is some info on the drink: http://perudelights.com/emoliente-a-powerful-drink-for-any-weather/
Main ingredients for this brand were toasted barley (in their hulls), equisetum, linseed and boldo leaves (peumus boldus).

You simmer for half an hour, strain and serve e.g. with lemon and honey.
I think it is delicious.

Ingredients can vary, but I have already read somewhere about using linseed as tea infusion because it releases gel-like substances that lubricate the throat.
You can test a bit and mix your own. Not necessarily for corona prepping, but as a homemade relief for regular colds / coughs.

I just ordered some Capsules of mushroom mycellia powder that has 17 species of anti-viral and immune boosting mushrooms. It is known to be effective against many viruses, including the common cold which is a less dangerous variety of Corona.

Also, there is a cute video about prevention from Vietnam. It's good for kids to remember to wash hands and not touch their faces.

My post from a year ago still applies:

Herbs and steps to take for a cold/flu


Thank you for the elderberry recipes – I will add them to my collection.

For your consideration – my two cents. (FYI – I gave up wheat and dairy 25 years ago and haven’t had a cold, flu, sniffle, sneeze, fever, bronchitis, etc., since.)

In no particular order:

Astragalus – deep immune building – can be taken over long periods of time without causing a drop in immunity - not in the presence of a fever.

Echinacea is a short term tonic – meaning you take it for 5 days on 2 days off, or 2 weeks on 2 weeks off. If taken continually it LOWERS your immune functioning.

Build your microbiome – 80% - 90% of your immunity is in your gut. Bone broth helps heal the gut and is very healing/soothing to the whole gastrointestinal tract. Eat homemade ferments like sauerkraut or probiotics.

Fasting is a great way not to use the body’s energy used for digestion and divert it for healing. Just do clear liquids for a couple of days. You can easily allow a sloughing off of dysbiotic state, which has probably contributed to feeling ill.

Wheat/dairy/sugar/meat/grains in general/alcohol cause mucus formation – a great place for the unwanted guests to nest and breed. Slows down the entire system, causes blockages of the movement of energy.

Fenugreek helps to expel mucus from almost everywhere.

Become more alkaline – bacteria/virus et al love to thrive in acidic and anaerobic environments. Drink hot lemonade sweetened with stevia – sugar makes you acid.  Drink green juices. Take a teaspoon of baking soda in a glass of water.

Andrographis – One of the great bitter herbs – good for congested liver, is an anti-inflammatory and stimulates the immune system – can be found in “Kold Kare”as a single herb, in any good health food store or on the internet. Take it at the first sign of something coming on.

Ear Ache – mullein and garlic infused oil.

Move your lymph. Massage, poke root, red root, homeopathics, jumping on a rebounder.

Propolis – Great for boosting the immune system and wonderful to bath a sore throat in. Please appreciate what bees go through to accumulate propolis, sticky resins and saps. I once observed a worker arrive at the hive laden with propolis. She waited, patiently, for 5 hours for another worker or two to come help her unload. Apparently she couldn’t do it herself.

Feeling chilled? Ginger, grated, in your hot tea of choice will warm you up. Ginger is also known as a pushing herb – makes whatever herbs you are taking more effective.

Not because it is Christmas – Frankincense and Myrrh – antibacterial, antiviral and antifungal.

Vitamin D3 and Vitamin C – essential to good immune function.

Medicinal mushrooms – reishi, maitake, shiitaki, and betaglucans.

Minerals – zinc, selenium, germanium and you may be deficient in magnesium –used by every cell of your body – Epsom salts – soak your feet in some nice hot water with Epsom salts – magnesium sulfate absorbed through the skin – very relaxing.

Fever – you are fighting an infection - help it along and pile on the blankets and sip hot tea. You will sweat. Using this method you can feel when the fever breaks. Have dry clothes handy to change into.

Meditate – stress wreaks havoc on your immunity. Focus on all you have to bee grateful for.

Slippery elm – so soothing to the mucus membranes.

Elecampane, mullein, coltsfoot, osha and wild cherry for lungs. Different applications - tinctures, teas, smoking them. PS - Don't smoke cigarettes.

Take any of the adaptogenic herbs – they help you to ease though regulation – ashwagandha, rhodiola etc.

i made my first fire cider today.  it is supposed to take a few weeks to be ready, but i couldn't find the horseradish earlier.

i found an even better recipe for fire cider.
https://permies.com/t/51346/kitchen/fire-cider-leftovers#566279

Prevention:
•Make a list of all the nearby stores/markets that sell healthy food. Go online and find out which healthy items are availble and which store has the lowest price for each item.
•Make a list of items to get from each store with the cheapest healthy items.
•Buy those items
•Prepare those healthy good items, chopping, canning, dividing into convienient portion sizes and put in an easy access location.
•Go through your home and find any non healthy food items.
•Clean your house, remove and mold, unecessary waste, little and unused items.
•Put these items in a very inconvienent location, give to the food bank, second hand store, dispose of.
•Instal water filtration, uv, reverse osmosis systems to ensure clean water
•Collect house plants, especially ones that clean the air and low mainatenance/ self watering and plant them in your house.
•Make a list of local food coops, C.S.A. memberships, farmers markets in your vicinity
•Compare costs and choose the easiest and cheapest option
•Get names and addresses of local farms and look into their practices and purchase primarily from the ones with a balance between best practices and lowest cost.
•Eliminate any unessesary travel, bike or walk when there is no need to do otherwise and when it doesn't take any/much longer
•Get adequate sleep and rest. Don't overwork yourself.
•Instead of watching a movie or sitting down during breaks, opt for a liesurely stroll or light jog if available.
•Drink lots of uncontaminated water.
•Ensure you make a consistant habit of vigorous exersise and other physical activities especially in non polluted areas
•Make use of hot and cold therapy such as hot and cold showers, saunas, ice baths, sweating, shivering.
•Opimise air quality humidity, and remove sources of allergens in the home

Here's an interesting article I stumbled on today: Anti-inflammatory drugs could worsen COVID-19 symptoms, France warns

Olivier Veran tweeted Saturday that ibuprofen, cortisone and other common anti-inflammatory drugs could be an "aggravating factor" for the new coronavirus.

He recommended that anyone concerned about a fever instead treat it with paracetamol*, which is also known as acetaminophen. Anyone already taking anti-inflammatory drugs for other reasons should seek advice from their doctor, Veran said.

*also known as acetaminophen and is the main ingredient in Tylenol.

---

update: since then, I've heard from the BCCDC and the WHO that there isn't yet enough evidence to support this claim.  Here's what the bbc has to say about it: https://www.bbc.com/news/51929628

Huxley Harter wrote:Apparently there are a few outbreaks of a new coronavirus, what herbs can help one prevent and treat it?

This may have already been posted, if not, with my COPD I think it is worth sitting in the sun every day for me.

https://medium.com/@ra.hobday/coronavirus-and-the-sun-a-lesson-from-the-1918-influenza-pandemic-509151dc8065

15 days ago Fred got sick with something.  11 days earlier, fred was on a bus in denver.   At the time there was no coronavirus in the US, so that couldn't be it.  Of course, others are saying that at that time there were millions of cases - they were just undocumented.  

Skipping past a lot of comedy about testing and stuff ...

I suspect that fred has it.   And now I have it.  

When Fred started feeling poorly, he thought it would simply go away quickly like most colds do.  But when his symptoms were an exact match and it was clear he was pretty sick ...   and then I started to feel nauseus ...

Oh yeah, something like 18% of people getting coronavirus feel nauseous before the other symptoms take hold.  

And now some sort of sickness is trying to move into the back of my throat.   It feels like strep throat wants to get started.   And my lungs will feel heavy --   hello lungs!  I can feel you!

So I am doing stuff to fight it.   And this fight has been going for five days.  About two to three times a day I can feel the opponent getting to work - and then I do something about it and the feeling goes away.  

Here is my battle plan of the moment.


lots of rest

I seem to be sleeping the same amount I normally sleep.  But I am taking steps to make sure that it is super duper good sleep.   I nearly always go to bed at 9:30, so I am making sure I don't eat anything after 6.   Sometimes if I eat after six, something in my digestion will wake me up or keep me from getting to sleep.

I have canceled a lot of meetings.  I do feel a bit tired thoughout the day now.  I have continued with some meetings, but I might limit them to 30 or 45 minutes and tell the others to have low expectations of me.  A lot of stuff gets tabled for a week.

One thing that has made things easier is that my email river seems to be less than half of what it normally is.  So things are easier.  

Rather than working a 12+ hour day, I think I am keeping it well under 7 hours a day.  And those 7 hours are at a pretty easy pace.  Around 3 in the afternoon, fred and I will settle in for about 2 hours of "television radiation therapy."   Since nobody here has a television, we sit in my office and watch netflix like stuff.  

I find that actually talking takes a bit out - so I am trying to type more and talk less.


10 degrees warmer

I am trying to emulate a fever.  I am trying to be just on the edge of being sweaty.  I am bundled up and the house temp is now 75 to 80.  We had to run the rocket mass heater for an extra hour one day to get it this warm, but it has been very little wood to keep it this warm.


zero dairy

I'm already on a pretty restricted diet that cuts out almost all dairy.  But I am allowed yogurt, mozarella cheese and ghee.  Jocelyn offered to make a me a lovely tomato soup and grilled mozarella cheese sandwich (gluten free bread, because I am not supposed to eat wheat).  She has made this before and it is crazy delicious.  I like to eat it with a little jam.  So freaky yummy.   But I declined.  I think that dairy is bad for me when I am sick.  I think dairy is generally not good for me.  It makes me tired and makes me need more sleep.  And if I eat enough of it, I feel like I get stupid.  It is super yummy and a great comfort food - but when I think about how i am probably fighting off coronavirus and because I am old and fat there is a 20% chance that I could die from a delicious grilled cheese sandwich - I managed to muster the courage to say "no thank you."   I think I should get a medal, or at least a bowling trophy, for turning down such deliciousness.


citrus and vitamin C stuff is good - except orange juice

The old standby for fighting off any cold.  

Some people might be wondering why I exclude OJ:  I have heard it mentioned about 50 times - there is a weird thing about oranges.  They are the only citrus that generates lots of mucus.  And when you are trying to fight off a funk, it is good to have less mucus.  

Normally, I eat a lot of apples.   And once in a while I eat pineapple.  I really like apples and pineapple.  But during these five days, I've moved the pineapple ahead of the apples.  I think pineapple is better for fighting colds for a bunch of reasons.  More vitamin C being one of the reasons.

I know there is a lot more I could be doing on the citrus and vitamin C front, but I am pretty lazy and, I think, getting plenty of vitamin C.   Maybe I will come up with something more today.


ginger

I keep plenty of organic crystalized ginger in stock.  If I have a sweet tooth craving, I ask myself "am I feel nauseous?"  If the answer is "yes" (very rare) then have some ginger.   If the answer is "no" then maybe just a tiny bit won't be be bad.  :)

It's not even that I'm that big of a fan of the stuff.   I keep around for its medicinal properties.  But if the sweet tooth monster shows up, it will usually be the only sweet thing in the house.  

And, of course, ginger is really good at fighting off colds.  Om nom nom nom nom.  

Jocelyn stocked my office with stevia sweetened ginger ale - a kind that has actual ginger in it.  I'm not really a ginger ale person.  I seem to not even be much of a pop person anymore.   Maybe once every two weeks I'll drink something sweetened with stevia.  But during these five days I try to drink one ginger ale after 6.   I think a tea of some sort would be ten times better, but I am just that lazy.


fire cider

About five years ago somebody sent us some.  And we were supposed to keep it "just in case" but the people here dared each other to actually drink it.  So it was quickly gone as the dares got bigger and bigger.   More and more people sent us fire cider and eventually we got to the point that we kept some in stock.  And when anybody got sick or was on the edge of getting sick, they would take a tablespoon - a proper and respectful dose with no dares involved.   The general consensus is that it works and works well.  Purely anecdotal evidence, but people in general seem convinced.

In the last five days, about three times a day, I get the feeling in my throat that some sickness is trying to take hold and I hit it with a tablespoon of fire cider.   Every time, within about 15 minutes, that feeling is GONE.  


more water

Big assist to your body!  Flush out the funk!  Get that pee to be clear!


elderberry syrup

We have some.  About an hour after fire cider I try to take two teaspoons of elderberry syrup.  Much easier on the tastebuds than fire cider.  

I have now been warned about 20 times that elderberry syrup is really good for preventing a cold, but should not be consumed if you are sick enough to be in bed.  It has something to do with how it sends more white blood cells to the lungs - and when your lungs are sick enough, there is such a thing as too many white blood cells.

Elerberry tea would be far better because it would have zero sugar.


air cleaners

We bought a bunch of air cleaners for forest fire season.  We replace the air filters on all of them and have them running at their lowest setting.   And they all have a UV light button - so they are all now glowing with a blue light.  So if the virus gets airborne, we have now deployed our robot army to fight!

You know what else makes for fresh air?  Fresh air.  At the warmest part of the day, we open all the windows in the house for ten minutes.  And I spent 20 minutes sitting in the sun on the front porch yesterday with the kittens.


fungus

Jennifer and Josiah might have it too.  Only everything for them is different.   Josiah is even working half days.  Some days they will even join me and fred for "television radiation therapy".   They are hitting the fire cider and on Monday, Josiah made a half gallon of new fire cider.  

And when I started to show signs, they gave me a full, unopened bottle of mushroom immune support pills from fungi perfecti.  They said there was big discount for a big order, so they bought lots - long before the cornavirus monster showed up.  So they gave me my own bottle!  Cool!  

"Take 2 capsules once per day" - done.


smoked oysters

The first time I ever tasted smoked oysters was in my twenties.  A woman offered them to me and as I tried the first one she told me they were supposed to have some sort of aphrodesiac effect.  I later learned that what really has an aphrodesiac effect is a beautiful woman trying to get you to eat something that she says has an aphrodesiac effect!  I am pretty sure now that there is nothing of an aphrodesiac quality in oysters.

But oysters do have a lot of zinc and zinc is good at fighting colds.   And I happened to have quite a few tins, so what the hell.  Once a day I would eat one tin.  And since they seemed to taste so good right now, I am thinking there is something in them that my body really likes at this time.  

(Fred (a vegan) is reading this over my shoulder and says mushrooms and pumpkin seeds are also a good source of zinc)


mullein

I haven't done this yet, but maybe I should.  I've been thinking that if I get authentically sick, the first thing I am going for is mullein leaf tea.   Jocelyn made a tea blend just for Fred and it contains mullein leaf.    

It looks like Jocelyn was thinking ahead last summer and harvested some leaves and put them up to dry on the ceiling racks in the kitchen.  So I know we have mullein.  If I get desperate enough - I saw a young mullein plant near the front porch which looks quite healthy.

Here is my fun mullein video from a few years ago with lots of advice from lots of people:




diatomaceous earth

People eat heaps of this stuff everyday in an effort to live to be 150 years old.  The idea is that the silica in diatomaceous earth acts as a building block for all sorts of stuff in the human body - leading to greater reslience.  Coronavirus takes out lots of lung bits.  Fred seems to be on the tail end of this so I suggested that he might try this.  He says "maybe".  

I ate a tablespoon of diatomaceous earth every day for a month to see if I noticed any issue.  Nothing.  People say that it does a lot to make for luxuriant hair and luxuriant nails.  I have no idea if it does anything spiffy for your innards, but I bet there are a million people that are certain that it does.  


what else?

This thread already seems pretty packed with ideas. Most of the stuff I am doing has already been mentioned.  I think it is pretty cool that our community came out with a list of first rate stuff more than a month ago.

Maybe I should make some stevia sweetened lemonade or limeade.  Jennifer made some chicken soup last night with extra garlic.  Jocelyn brought by several soups several days ago which are now gone.  

Overall, I feel fine.  Just a bit tired.  

Anybody else feel like they are successfully fighting off coronavirus?

(and now for the moment that I knock on wood that I don't get it full blown and continue to keep it at bay)

Paul: copy of something I posted on another thread, in case you missed it..

In case you didn't see anyplace I put it that Covid is an acid-dependent virus, like the flu. Change your body pH and it dies off, just like pouring vinegar in a fist tank kills the fish. Baking soda, in water, every night before bed changes your pH to alkaline and knocks it down. Don't know if it'll take out 100%, but it's an easy thing to do.

1 tsp is an average dose for a 150 pound person. so 1/2 tsp for a 75 pound kid, 1.5 tsp for a 225 pound person. The idea is to put your body pH to 8 for an hour, if you pH test yourself. Take it before bed, it will mess with digestive acid for about 1-2 hours when you take it, so before bed keeps it from affecting your food.

WORTH TRYING!!

Stay safe my friends....  

at this point while the wave of infected is still rising I'm just glad I don't have symptoms. The best I can do is try to keep immune system strong and stay home and avoid others. Experts seem to be saying it is about three times as contagious as a normal flu, whatever that is. Ive got some ginseng harvested out back last fall and if it is helping or not I don't know but I like the taste

1)  "Of course, others are saying that at that time there were millions of cases - they were just undocumented.  "

Maybe not millions, but a lot more than considered I wager....

2)  "...fred and I will settle in for about 2 hours of "television radiation therapy."   Since nobody here has a television, we sit in my office and watch netflix like stuff."

Personal recommendations (somewhat out of date):  "Ozark", "Babylon Berlin", and "Luther".  


3)  " It is super yummy and a great comfort food - but when I think about how i am probably fighting off coronavirus and because I am old and fat there is a 20% chance that I could die from a delicious grilled cheese sandwich - I managed to muster the courage to say "no thank you."   I think I should get a medal, or at least a bowling trophy, for turning down such deliciousness."

Try Violife brand provolone slices (non-dairy) and a high-fiber bread/wrap.  Take the bowling trophy home as well for tapping a "healthy non-dairy comfort food".


4)  "I know there is a lot more I could be doing on the citrus and vitamin C front, ....   Maybe I will come up with something more today."

Kale/cole crops.....an important source of Vit C for the foraging/farming northern European constitution throughout the ages.


5) " more waterBig assist to your body!  Flush out the funk!  Get that pee to be clear!"

Great to reduce the stress of kidney stones of all ages, shapes, and forms as well!.....


6) "mullein"

Use dried for tea, fresh for toilet paper..........(Did someone say toilet paper!!!???)

7)  "Others?....."

Peruse this article and put those near to you who are into plant medicinals on the task:  https://www.nature.com/articles/s41477-020-0628-0

Some things work for some people and not for others. Then sometimes they say that thing is "nothing but the placebo effect". But wait - study after study has shown that the placebo effect can be anywhere from 20% to 60%. There's good evidence that sitting in the sun and getting fresh air really does help. Sitting in the sun with kittens - well the kittens are the placebo effect and I *totally* agree with how important a placebo effect they are. If the "placebo effect" is your own brain healing you - the company of kittens is bound to make it work like rainbows and sparkles and like kittens!

Keep doing your best Paul!

Chloroquine and Hydroxychloroquine have been in the news lately. Korea uses it for their covid-19 patients and have had good luck with it. Some people on this thread have this and are fortunate to have this on hand if they get sick. I'm in U.S, so would need a doctor to get it. Wanted to pass on some info on how it works, and some possible natural substitutions. First off, zinc needs to be inside the cell to prevent virus replication. Zinc does not go thru the cell wall by itself, it needs a carrier to bring it thru. This carrier is called an ionophore. Chloroquine and Hydroxychloroquine are both zinc ionophores. Quercetin, the over-the-counter supplement is thought to be a zinc ionophore. Currently Canada is doing a research study of Quercetin and zinc in treatment of Covid-19. So we should hear soon how that turned out.
Epigallocatechin gallate (EGCG) is found in foods and also act as zinc ionophore. EGCG is a catechin which is a type of antioxidant. Things high in EGCG are green tea, carob powder, blackberries.  Pecans have a little too and most fruits have a some. So in the same meal that you eat your EGCG's take your zinc supplement, or eat food foods high in zinc such as oysters and beef. Pumpkin seeds have a some zinc too. If you want to learn more, here is a link to a publication about it.  https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/jf5014633

Hydroxychloroquine is used in treatment of RA, so if you know anyone that has it, they may be able to give you some.  The brand name is plaquenil.  Since the news about it broke, there is already a shortage, but a number of firms and countries are donating millions of tabs of it to the US, and i would assume all the companies that make it will ramp up production,  so hopefully it will be available soon for widespread use.

On January 19, 2020, a 35-year-old man presented to an urgent care clinic in Snohomish County, Washington, with a 4-day history of cough and subjective fever. On checking into the clinic, the patient put on a mask in the waiting room. After waiting approximately 20 minutes, he was taken into an examination room and underwent evaluation by a provider. He disclosed that he had returned to Washington State on January 15 after traveling to visit family in Wuhan, China. The patient stated that he had seen a health alert from the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) about the novel coronavirus outbreak in China and, because of his symptoms and recent travel, decided to see a health care provider

.

From Andrew Weil on integrative medicine and Coronavirus

To Avoid:
In the absence of human clinical data, caution is warranted with the following immune activating agents due to their possible stimulation of an inflammatory response:

• Sambucus nigra (Elderberry)
• Polysaccharide extracts from medicinal mushrooms
• Echinacea angustifolia and E. purpurea
• Larch arabinogalactan
• Vitamin D

A Medical Worker Describes Terrifying Lung Failure From COVID-19 — Even in His Young Patients

“It’s called acute respiratory distress syndrome, ARDS. That means the lungs are filled with fluid. And it’s notable for the way the X-ray looks: The entire lung is basically whited out from fluid. Patients with ARDS are extremely difficult to oxygenate. It has a really high mortality rate, about 40%. The way to manage it is to put a patient on a ventilator. The additional pressure helps the oxygen go into the bloodstream.

“Normally, ARDS is something that happens over time as the lungs get more and more inflamed. But with this virus, it seems like it happens overnight. When you’re healthy, your lung is made up of little balloons. Like a tree is made out of a bunch of little leaves, the lung is made of little air sacs that are called the alveoli. When you breathe in, all of those little air sacs inflate, and they have capillaries in the walls, little blood vessels. The oxygen gets from the air in the lung into the blood so it can be carried around the body.

“Typically with ARDS, the lungs become inflamed. It’s like inflammation anywhere: If you have a burn on your arm, the skin around it turns red from additional blood flow. The body is sending it additional nutrients to heal. The problem is, when that happens in your lungs, fluid and extra blood starts going to the lungs. Viruses can injure cells in the walls of the alveoli, so the fluid leaks into the alveoli. A telltale sign of ARDS in an X-ray is what’s called ‘ground glass opacity,’ like an old-fashioned ground glass privacy window in a shower. And lungs look that way because fluid is white on an X-ray, so the lung looks like white ground glass, or sometimes pure white, because the lung is filled with so much fluid, displacing where the air would normally be.”

Good Arstechnica article on Corona that is updated daily in the afternoon

James Whitelaw wrote:
From Andrew Weil on integrative medicine and Coronavirus

To Avoid:
In the absence of human clinical data, caution is warranted with the following immune activating agents due to their possible stimulation of an inflammatory response:

• Sambucus nigra (Elderberry)
• Polysaccharide extracts from medicinal mushrooms
• Echinacea angustifolia and E. purpurea
• Larch arabinogalactan
• Vitamin D

What he is warning of is called a cytokine storm. A good resource if you want to know more is this monograph.

The science gets complicated quickly, but its immune-boosting properties may set off or exacerbate something called a “cytokine storm.” They have only been seen in hospitalized patients but if you become ill, your doctor should be aware that you have been taking an immune-boosting herb. Paul Bergner, director of the North American Institute of Medical Herbalism, has written a monograph explaining cytokine storms written for professional herbalists.
https://c1c17220-5aa6-46c5-a11f-1b9d7595d5fa.filesusr.com/ugd/ee530d_7e9336fad1014196be4c39e3c4e30418.pdf

From Andrew Weil on integrative medicine and Coronavirus

To Avoid:
• Sambucus nigra (Elderberry)
• Vitamin D

Seeing Vit D on Weils’ list confuses me.  I’ve seen elderberry (which I adore) on others’ lists, so no surprise, but...

Really not sure about removing D from my daily protocol.  Hard to know...

Everyone, be well.  Great thread!

I could see not wanting to take too much Vit D pills to avoid the C-storm.  

However, I also noticed that the local advice is to go outside, in your small family groups and avoid contact with people you don't live with.  On the theory that being outside is good for your mental and physical health, as well as being exposed to sunlight which reduces the spread of the virus.  It also means absorbing natural Vit D which the body treats differently than pill forum Vit D.

One tip I think of is don't lie down and sleep too much. To make your lymphatic system work you must move around and take in deep breaths and also exhale deeply and completely. Also know that the concern over your body becoming too acidic is symptomatic of not exhaling completely and inhaling deeply in that co2 is acid and oxygen is more base. And staying well hydrated also helps with that balancing act. Many folks when I'll stop or nearly stop eating and drinking. And some of the feeling dopey or relaxed after taki g in milk products can be evidence of the effect of calcium which relaxes but also helps the nerves to function.
 Love the talk on here from all of you. So glad Paul is not alone and ill.

Pearl Sutton wrote:

James Whitelaw wrote:
What he is warning of is called a cytokine storm. A good resource if you want to know more is this monograph.

Elderberry is one of Stephen Harrod Buhner's top recommended antiviral herbs: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00EEM7WDS/


The organic chemistry part is kind of way over my head, so I'm having to read through it over and over again to glomb onto it all, but Buhner talks about the cytokine storm and using herbs to prevent it from happening. There are different herbs that work at different stages of a viral illness to disrupt the virus's ability to do damage. I don't recall seeing anything about elderberry being a bad thing to take.

Can anyone here elucidate, in layman's terms, when in the process elderberry should be avoided? I've got a pound of the dried berries and have been taking a decoction of it (sans sugar) religiously.

In case you didn't see anyplace I put it that Covid is an acid-dependent virus, like the flu. Change your body pH and it dies off, just like pouring vinegar in a fist tank kills the fish. Baking soda, in water, every night before bed changes your pH to alkaline and knocks it down. Don't know if it'll take out 100%, but it's an easy thing to do.

1 tsp is an average dose for a 150 pound person. so 1/2 tsp for a 75 pound kid, 1.5 tsp for a 225 pound person. The idea is to put your body pH to 8 for an hour, if you pH test yourself. Take it before bed, it will mess with digestive acid for about 1-2 hours when you take it, so before bed keeps it from affecting your food.

 -The idea is to put your body pH to 8 for an hour-

I’m not quite sure what this is trying to convey, but you can’t put your entire ‘body’ pH to 8 (you’d die). We know a pH of 0 is totally acidic, a pH of 14 is completely alkaline and 7 is neutral. Those levels vary throughout your body. Your blood is slightly alkaline, with a pH between 7.35 and 7.45. Your stomach is very acidic, with a pH of 3.5 or below, so it can break down food. And your urine changes, depending on what you eat -- that's how your body keeps the level in your blood steady. Nothing you eat is going to substantially change the pH of your blood (contrary to the claims of the Kangen water scam of a few years back). Your body works to keep that level constant. But it will change the pH of your urine.
If the pH of your blood falls below 7.35, the result is a condition called acidosis, a state that leads to central nervous system depression. Severe acidosis - where blood pH falls below 7.00 - can lead to a coma and even death.
If the pH of your blood rises above 7.45, the result is alkalosis. Severe alkalosis can also lead to death, but through a different mechanism; alkalosis causes all of the nerves in your body to become hypersensitive and over-excitable, often resulting in muscle spasms, nervousness, and convulsions; it's usually the convulsions that cause death in severe cases.

So- most vegetables and fruits have an alkaline-forming effect on your body fluids.
Most grains, animal foods, and highly processed foods have an acid-forming effect.
It’s best to eat a good mix of nutrient-dense, alkaline and acid-forming foods, but ideally you want to eat more alkaline-forming foods than acid-forming foods, so as to have the net acid and alkaline-forming effects of your diet match the slightly alkaline pH of your blood.
Baking soda water may temporarily change the pH of your stomach and urine, but thats only until your body balances itself out again. It will not change the pH of your blood.

Julie Reed wrote:

 -The idea is to put your body pH to 8 for an hour-

I’m not quite sure what this is trying to convey,

Urine pH. On my test strips it needs to be very very dark for an hour.

Diane Kistner wrote:

Pearl Sutton wrote:

James Whitelaw wrote:
What he is warning of is called a cytokine storm. A good resource if you want to know more is this monograph.

Elderberry is one of Stephen Harrod Buhner's top recommended antiviral herbs: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00EEM7WDS/


The organic chemistry part is kind of way over my head, so I'm having to read through it over and over again to glomb onto it all, but Buhner talks about the cytokine storm and using herbs to prevent it from happening. There are different herbs that work at different stages of a viral illness to disrupt the virus's ability to do damage. I don't recall seeing anything about elderberry being a bad thing to take.

Can anyone here elucidate, in layman's terms, when in the process elderberry should be avoided? I've got a pound of the dried berries and have been taking a decoction of it (sans sugar) religiously.

From that PDF

The timing of the development of cytokine storm is also important to understand the potential
role of the herbalist in aggravating it. Cytokine storms are a phenomenon of the critical care unit or the
ICU. Here patients with advanced respiratory disease are losing the battle against the viral infection,
and have acquired pneumonia, or other complications such as multi-organ involvement or sepsis during
the late stage of the disease.

So the cytokine storm is not an issue for the medical herbalist working for prevention or for treatment of early symptomatic disease.

My personal opinion (and what we are doing) is take our immune boosters now, and if we get sick, taper them down as it gets worse. The idea there is to keep our bodies strong enough to handle it, and if illness happens, let the immune system do it's job. If it's bad, definitely off the herbs to keep the immune system from over-reacting with a cytokine storm. That's MY opinion, based on the stuff I have read.

Urine pH. On my test strips it needs to be very very dark for an hour.  

But a virus gets into your respiratory system and then into the blood. Urine is ‘downstream’ of that part of your system. I’m confused about how changing the pH of your urine would help kill off a virus that’s ‘upstream’ in the blood. What am I missing?

The immune system has two main methods for attacking stuff.

1. something's wrong, I don't know what, let's push it out!  This method has lots of elements to it, but the point here is that it's non-discriminatory and causes inflammation and in extreme cases the shutting down of nonessential functions (like brain and digestion and liver and kidneys...).

2. a more targeted approach - I know what this is, I will send in the stealth fighters to eliminate the specific invader.  This is what a lot of vaccines are for - training the system to know who to send in to fight a specific invader.

The C-storm is an overreaction of the first system.  

It's a lot like autoimmune and the reaction that chronic Lyme can trigger in the human body, only with COVID-19, the inflammation gets focused in the lungs

Pearl Sutton wrote:My personal opinion (and what we are doing) is take our immune boosters now, and if we get sick, taper them down as it gets worse. The idea there is to keep our bodies strong enough to handle it, and if illness happens, let the immune system do it's job. If it's bad, definitely off the herbs to keep the immune system from over-reacting with a cytokine storm. That's MY opinion, based on the stuff I have read.

That sounds like a good plan. Helpful info, Pearl.

Diane,

Many of the herbs and foods that are typically good for viral infections work by stimulating cytokine release in our bodies. This is an inflammatory response that helps to kill viruses and bacteria and normally this is a good thing. With some viruses such as coronavirus, bird flu, swine flu, and others, the virus itself stimulates cytokine release to very high levels, causing huge amounts of inflammation that damage the cells in the lungs, causing cell death, fluids to be released, and allows the infection to spread into the blood (sepsis). This is a "cytokine storm" that is a big part of what's killing people with this virus. Others have posed links that are good and are probably more accurate.

From what I've read and understand, the foods and herbs that are typically good for us such as mushrooms, fermented foods, elderberry, astragalus, echinacea, spirulina, chlorella, and ginger also stimulate cytokine release. I intend to avoid them at all costs if I start to feel sick.

The foods and herbs that I plan to focus on that are supposed to help with viruses but either don't stimulate cytokines or actually reduce them are: fresh apples, garlic, fresh onions, green tea (antiviral yet reduces cytokine production), turmeric, quercetin (supplements and foods that contain it), resveratrol (supplements and foods that contain it such as red wine....), vitamin C, and zinc.

My Traditional Chinese Medicine teacher suggests that if we get sick it would be a good idea to stop eating meat, dairy, wheat or any other mucus containing foods and focus on vegetable soups, chicken, fish, fruit. That's a healthy diet to me no matter what so I'm good with that.

I hope this helps. We're all learning during these difficult times. I hope that as people recover and figure out what worked well for them that they will share that also. Every bit helps.

I forgot to add that I am currently eating mushrooms, fermented foods and ginger now to keep my immune system strong, but if I start to get sick and it goes beyond just the initial stages, I will take those out of my diet to reduce the potential for overstimulation of the immune system. This is what I've learned in my Chinese Medicine (TCM) courses also - treatment at the beginning of a disease can be very different later on in the progression of a disease. Pearl also mentioned this.

What's a good remedy for having a song stuck in your head that you can't make stop?




It does remind me that this, too, shall pass....