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pollinator

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posted 2 years ago

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Language is viewed as a barrier to tell more people about rocket mass heaters, but rather than go *through* the barrier via translations, why not *go around* it, bypassing language all together.

Isn't it possible to do informative RMH videos and pictures by 100% showing, and not telling?

Certain concepts are near universally understood without language: Warm/cold, Yes/no, Numbers -> sizes/dimensions, directional arrows, slow/fast, $/€, periodic elements & materials.

Coming from an academic background, it is taken for granted that instructors will have clear learning outcomes for learners at pre-defined *levels* of learning. (See "Bloom's Revised Taxonomy" for examples of learning levels.)

Language may not be needed depending on the learning objectives. It's one thing to have a goal for 100,000,000 people be able to *recognize* an RMH when they see it, it's another goal for them to *understand* how it operates; and it's another goal entirely to *analyze* one, or *create* one on their own, or *design* a brand new one. Have learning outcomes been defined for the 100,000,000 people goal?

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Barbara Manning

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Location: Nikko, Japan Zone 7a-b 740 m or 2,400 ft

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Barbara Manning wrote:
If it was my product, my invention, there are a series of issues that I would address before I would try to market it to these basic audiences -- #1 the HVAC associations and industries, etc. who (potentially) would like to add this as a service to its customers -- that is, aftermarket installations in private homes. #2 I'd also get in front of new home construction associations (and at their conventions) to promote an RMH design in constructing new homes. #3 I would do one ton of marketing to state-level government agencies that are trying to save the people who are freezing to death. #4 I would introduce the product to the consumer DYI market that is smart enough to follow your directions -- not the DIY market that is making birdhouses and bookshelves. It'll cost a bit of coin but you don't have to follow all 4 paths at the same time.

What do others here think about this method of promoting RMH?

Ladies and Gents: I recently read an article in the New Yorker that speaks directly to this issue. It's about a separate set of folks -- like you -- who are serious about saving the world from itself, or at least from those who would strip it of its resources, today if possible, and not care that they are destroying the only home everyone on the planet has. The article is a long read and written by Burkhard Bilger and was first published on December 13, 2009. https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2009/12/21/hearth-surgery The salient first salvo and I hope something that will pique your interest, is this quoted text:
*******
""Do you have a job?” she said, almost to herself.
[Peter] Scott said no, then yes.
“That sounds fishy. What is it you do?”
Scott fidgeted for a second, then mumbled, “I make stoves for Africa.”
“You what?”
“I make stoves for Africa.”
Scott was being modest. In the small but fanatical world of stovemakers he is something of a celebrity. (“Peter is our rock star,” another stovemaker told me.) For the past seven years, under the auspices of the German aid agency GTZ, Scott has designed or built some four hundred thousand stoves in thirteen African countries. He has made them out of mud, brick, sheet metal, clay, ceramic, and discarded oil drums. He has made them in villages without electricity or liquid fuel, where meals are still cooked over open fires, where burns are among the most common injuries and smoke is the sixth leading cause of death. In the places where Scott works, a good stove can save your life."
*******
So here we find a small group of people who are rather dramatically changing the world, specifically about how it cooks its food. I think Permies can expand on this concept and introduce the RMH so people can heat their homes. Is it possible to learn more about these people, and either join with them or at least teach them about RMH so that it too has a chance to be a part of the four hundred thousand stoves that Peter Scott has installed?

If you can't download the article, let me know and I'll see if I can get permission from the author or the New Yorker to publish it here. If I can help at all to get the RMH concept introduced to this circle of like-minded people, I am prepared to help.

Cheers!
Barbara

Read about Permies.com site basics in this thread: https://permies.com/t/43625/Universal

tuffy monteverdi

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posted 2 years ago

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paul wheaton wrote:

Diane Colboch wrote:If it were commercialized and there were businesses that installed them at a reasonable price...I would buy one and have it installed. No way do I think I could build one.

You could buy a UL listed liberator and have it installed by anybody that installs wood stoves in your area.

yes, this is how i felt i could own one. i don't have the tools, the time, or the know-how to make one. but, Liberator seemed great.
the question is, are they still in business???
I emailed them before purchasing, no answer...
i then ordered the rocket heater and i have emailed them with questions, to no avail...never a single answer or acknowledgement.

I don't know if the manufacturer is ill or what, but I am actually worried i will not receive the rocket stove...

tuffy monteverdi

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paul wheaton wrote:

Aldo Caine wrote:Honestly, I have been following along on rocket mass heaters off and on for 4-5 years off and on and I still don't feel like there is a go-to, one stop, this is how you build one, type of article. I know there are books but if someone posted a step by step this is how you build it the easiest way with home depot parts, I would likely do it. God bless cob and everything, but meet me halfway with conventional building materials and get me hooked with a basic functional model and steps to build it

The trick is that everybody wants something slightly different.

Have you looked into pebble style? A wood box filled with pea gravel is the mass.

the pea gravel looks great, doable (for the mechanically ill-informed -like me), and cheap --even if it were to be a small wood box, but
would this work as mass heater off of a Liberator, in a wood house with wood floors?
how does one make all that wood safe with a super hot heater?

Paul Canosa

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Location: Shizuoka Japan

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posted 2 years ago

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The sad part is that many in the EU could probably use a mass heater this winter and still have time to make one before the winter arrives

Never attribute to malice that which is explained by ignorance or the inability to listen

Tom Rutledge

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( late to the party )

Leading with the solution rather than the problem.

There are three basic problems coming up in short order.

1) Cost of current heating system / fuel / running out of money spent on food, etc.
2) It's already to late and I'm cold.
3) long term saving the world, CO2 , etc. etc.

Skip 3, Near and dear to our hearts, and not the point at the moment.

Skip 1, They have options ( they just don't know it yet )

I think 2 is the answer. There was a lovely video back on page 5 , https://permies.com/t/160/191709/people-rocket-mass-heaters#1589069

Some Europeans putting in what looked to be a common area open air, rocket mass heater. A supper gilligan proof ( I know... ), BYOW, communal solution might go a very long way to showing a lot of people that warm asses warm cold people.

To cut the gordian knot of design / regulations / etc. Don't do it inside. It doesn't need a building permit if it's out in the back yard. Wrap a tent around it and call it a 'communal warming center'.

One possible template, a liberator on a custom non burnable skid with a bench or two of mass then enough structure to get the chimney up 10 + ft.

Rather than the push of 'this solves your problems' get it coming the other way to 'how do I get an ass heater closer to where I sleep? '

Ideas, not fully though out, and hope. It's some good work being done. At first slowly, and then all at once.

Eric Hanson

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I just found another place we could possibly focus our efforts. Anything that is about to hit Germany will apparently hit Bulgaria worse. I know that Bulgaria has fewer people and there are probably fewer Bulgarian speakers here, but if anyone could and was interested in spreading the word in Bulgarian (subtitles), now would be an ideal time.

Eric

Some places need to be wild

Beau M. Davidson

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Tom Rutledge wrote:
Rather than the push of 'this solves your problems' get it coming the other way to 'how do I get an ass heater closer to where I sleep? '

I think the RMH in shared spaces concept is a great one.

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Jack Or

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posted 2 years ago

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I realize that rocket mass heaters are slightly more efficient than masonry heaters--93 percent as opposed to 87?--but they're both mass heaters, both in the same ballpark, both very efficient and clean burning, and a masonry heater might fit some folks' aesthetic better. I predict that European stove masons will have a very busy winter this winter.

So, the core of a rocket heater is a vertical tube, in which the gasses and flames from a short, small, horizontal firebox rise, swirl, mix with air, and burn completely? This wouldn't work with your tube-in-a-drum design, but where you can expose that vertical combustion tube, try quartz tubing. If it will take the heat--I've done some research and I think it will, but I'm not set up to try it--you'd get bright, dancing firelight and a lot of delicious, deep-penetrating far infrared to bathe in anytime you were firing the heater.

Glenn Herbert

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I expect European stove masons will have a very busy season. For those who can't afford the cost of a professional mason, building your own RMH sounds like a good alternative.

Quartz tubing might take the heat of the RMH riser, but it would not fill one of the other primary requirements: to keep the flame insulated and as hot as possible until combustion is complete. Where a visible fire is desired, there are styles of core that can have a side of the feed tube or the batch box door made of ceramic glass.

For instant heating, the barrel in a traditional RMH or a metal panel in the side of a bell work very well.

Keshav Boddula

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Location: between USA (usually California) and India

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looks like the good people of Zimbabwe also trying to plan well to get more fuel-efficient cookstoves (but maybe not that part about going electric-solar). not sure how you may like to get involved, but

https://news.mongabay.com/2022/10/forests-finance-sit-ins-seeds-over-seedlings-and-fuel-saving-cookstoves/ (see 2nd brief down)

Matt Adeljar

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Location: Ithaca, NY (Zone 6)

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For the insurance side of this, what can we do to get more UL-listed RMHs? Are there 1 or 2 RMH designs (maybe one for big and one for small spaces) that we could focus on and raise money to pay for testing to get them UL-listed? I don't know what's involved with that process, so maybe it's more difficult than that. But then perhaps people could receive training to build those designs for people worried about the insurance aspect of it. When it comes to raising money, we could also work through a nonprofit to apply for grant funds that would support this sort of work (I run a nonprofit and could probably take the lead on that...) and/or partner with local universities that might want to work with us.

Glenn Herbert

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UL listing can only be done for a manufactured product, not for a build design. The Liberator core is UL listed and can be connected to a mass built on site.

Becky Lawson

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The best podcast to get RMHs on is “Stuff you should know”.

Has an audience of thousands of smart/curious people from all walks of life. Would really disseminate RMHs to a mass audience. The podcast is always looking for interesting/obscure things to talk about.

I’ll have a few people I know send them the suggestion.

Glenn Herbert

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The International Building Code, a model that is widely used for local codes, has a section for masonry heaters. It is unfortunately exclusively focused on contraflow/ducted types of heaters, not even mentioning the existence of bells or stratification chambers, but you can cover most RMH design specs between that and the wood stove section of the code. The biggest issue I think is that masonry heaters need to be built by or under the supervision of a recognized professional, which generally means a member of the Masonry Heater Association. Becoming a "licensed" or whatever the exact designation is masonry heater builder takes a lot of money, time and practice building ordinary masonry heaters.

By the way, I have long wanted to find out the exact requirements of the ASTM E1602 standard which is referenced in the IBC, so I recently spent the $60 to get a copy of the 9-page standard. Half of that is just diagrams of several traditional European regional designs as examples. Nearly all of the rest is the same as the building code, though it does mention the acceptability of fireclay-sand mortar alongside refractory and other types of mortar. The building code explicitly requires refractory cement for chimneys and fireplaces/fireboxes, and forbids clay-sand mortar.

Lif Strand

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Posts: 314

Location: New Mexico USA zone 6

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Aldo Caine wrote:Honestly, I have been following along on rocket mass heaters off and on for 4-5 years off and on and I still don't feel like there is a go-to, one stop, this is how you build one, type of article. I know there are books but if someone posted a step by step this is how you build it the easiest way with home depot parts, I would likely do it. God bless cob and everything, but meet me halfway with conventional building materials and get me hooked with a basic functional model and steps to build it

This is exactly how I feel about it. What I see is major home renovation that sacrifices living space and that may require adding floor support, plus requires welding and other skills I don't have or that are just too much to try to deal with. Anybody can buy a wood stove or cobble together a rocket stove out of parts that are easy to obtain -- but rocket mass heaters are in no way simple or easy or cheap, not when a person has to make major changes to their homes and hire people with the skills to create (invent, really, given the current instructions that are available) a non-standardized heating system that may or may not even meet building code requirements.

Seems to me, then, that if the point of this discussion is to educate about rocket mass heaters then there first needs to be some agreement on what the design options are, and to standardize those options so that the designs can be easily produced in the real world. And when I say "easily" I mean just that. One-of-a-kind installations will never be commercially viable at the level I think is being discussed here.

Lif Strand
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Glenn Herbert

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"Sacrifices living space"... If comparing to a wood stove, the safety clearances around a wood stove occupy similar space to the core of a rocket mass heater. Yes there is more clear floor space and you can walk closer if the stove is not running. If using a bench layout, that is sitting space, and you can have less conventional furniture in the room. So the space argument is only sometimes valid.

Bench style options can never be brick-by-brick standardized as no one or few variants can cover all situations. They will always have to be tailored to some degree to fit a room. The combustion core can be standardized, and there are a few designs that could cover all layouts with the mass part left to adapt to the space. It would be possible to make a few tall bell style RMH designs that could be put in any room without modifications, and occupy around 3 feet square or less. These would need foundations to the ground below. Imagine putting a big refrigerator in the room, except it would be a focal point of warmth.

Matt Adeljar

Posts: 13

Location: Ithaca, NY (Zone 6)

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Glenn Herbert wrote:The combustion core can be standardized, and there are a few designs that could cover all layouts with the mass part left to adapt to the space.

This would be great! I'm wondering if we could use an approach similar to Open Source Ecology (https://www.opensourceecology.org) for developing and improving on these designs collaboratively and sharing instructional and marketing resources that would both make it easier for individual builders to create these RMHs on their own, but also to provide some standardization that makes it easier for people who want to manufacture and sell these as a way of getting them to people who are interested but not up for building one themselves. Perhaps this sort of manufacturing element and standardization of models would allow us to get them UL listed as well.

I hesitate to push this in a business direction because I like the current DIY feel of it, but we could keep it open source and still available to DIYers.

Glenn Herbert

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Peter van den Berg designed a precast J-tube core some years back, and Dragon Heaters was licensed to manufacture them. They don't appear to have been able to make a robust business of it, so I wonder about the practicality of doing this.

C. Letellier

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Margaux Knox wrote:

Joshua Myrvaagnes wrote:
Lastly, it may be helpful to normalize this by making it sound boring. A professor at my school once said that professors could evade opposition by making their lecture titles sound boring, so the administration wouldn't hassle them. But they could then be subversive and make change. For example, instead of "heat your home with 1/10th the wood" you could say "a wood stove uses 10 times the wood of a modern, efficient woodburning appliance, as well as causing other environmental problems and costing the user more."

THIS is something I can run with... Love this. Very smart.

Good start. Should also mention that it doesn't need electricity to run. Should mention that it doesn't need complex catalyst systems to burn clean thus eliminating the danger of chimney fires. Wording needs work to follow the above pattern.

Country oriented nerd with primary interests in alternate energy in particular solar. Dabble in gardening, trees, cob, soil building and a host of others.

Kristin Lang

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Another major hurdle is building codes, We live in unorganized area and are making plans for one. But none of the fireplace suppliers want to sell us pipe for this. They tell us it’s dangerous and won’t work. So yes we are planning to still find supplies elsewhere, but it is a hurdle for anyone thinking about it. I know building codes up here would never allow for one currently. Every wood stove has to be wet certified.

Matt Adeljar

Posts: 13

Location: Ithaca, NY (Zone 6)

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Glenn Herbert wrote:Peter van den Berg designed a precast J-tube core some years back, and Dragon Heaters was licensed to manufacture them. They don't appear to have been able to make a robust business of it, so I wonder about the practicality of doing this.

I’m thinking of this being different from a typical business operation – more of a collective or cooperative that shares resources. Or maybe even something similar to an academic society that helps members to stay connected, to be a visible authority on a subject that the public can trust, to organize relevant training events for members, to share best practices, etc.

I envision the goal being to join forces to make it easier for people/businesses to produce and install RMHs and for prospective RMH users to understand, buy/build, (legally) install, insure, and use them. Psychologically speaking, we need to make every stage of the process easier for prospective RMH buyers/builders. Many of these materials are already out there and would just need to be gathered and organized. So if I want to build, sell, and install RMHs (something I am actually considering…), the collective would have a centralized place where I could find relevant resources and guidelines, a network of people with whom I can reach out to for troubleshooting, etc. We get some of these things from online forums like this one, but I’m envisioning something that’s more organized and easy to access. For example, instead of having to read through a ton of threads to identify best practices for handling a particular RMH situation, the collective would have a list of best practices (or at least common practices, listing pros/cons/circumstances for each).

And I wonder if the collective could help us as a community to set up some sort of distributed manufacturing process whereby people could build a particular design that’s previously been UL tested, adhering to any standards that have been established for how to build that particular design.

So I see this as a support-focused collective/society/community and not a for-profit business – though it would make it easier for other for-profit RMH businesses to emerge and succeed. Though if we are able to do something with setting up a distributed manufacturing process for collective members producing their own UL-listed RMHs, that would affect the type of entity we’d legally need to be.

I’m new to the world of RMHs and this community – maybe something like this already exists and I just don’t know about it?

paul wheaton

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how do we tell more people about rocket mass heaters

This rolls through my head about 20 times a day. With a deep focus on the people that are facing a potentially cold winter with little to no heat.

I have learned I am unable to connect to famous people or get a peep of a mention in giant media stuff. I have zero game there. Rather than fritter away any more time in that space, I need to devote my energy to what I can do.

I can help to make rocket mass heaters better. I can help to get youtube videos up. I can help to make movies. I can help to write books. I can email 120,000 people. I can host events with other rocket mass heater innovators. I can go on small podcasts and talk about this. I can address some of the concerns people have.

Think, think, think ... where to put my time to best use to possibly reach the most people and affect the greatest change ... ...

So we (me, jeff, and the boots) hosted a rmh workshop this week. It just ended. We did three projects. And a huge part of the mission that we talked about over and over was: make a video for youtube; a really simple build showing it being quick and cheap. This is the red cabin build. So lots and lots of people took lots of video. I'll turn it over to the bernal brothers. Hopefully we can get something up quickly.

One of the builds needs testing today (the batch box). The other went through a few tests and revisions and might just do a massive improvement for all rocket mass heaters everywhere. I wrote a lot about it this morning here.

It isn't the same as telling 100 million people about rocket mass heaters, but it is something i can do.

My books, movies, videos, podcasts, events ... the big collection of paul wheaton stuff!

Leslie L Wilson

Posts: 22

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Getting the News Out to the World - The World's Media Is in Ukraine, Paul!

One of the by-products of my long-term permie work plans in Ukraine and border countries (visas are slippery things) is bumping into the world's press and other global players. You all know -- and I even know -- that RMH systems can save many lives in Ukraine which is enduring massive, unending power outages. This will likely get worse as winter comes.

I AM sharing rocket heating info NOW -- digitally -- to as many key people and groups as I can. When I get back into Ukraine (December at the latest -- visas are slippery things) I have an invitation and a ride to Kharkiv region to help build as many stoves as I can. Media are crawling all over the area searching for heartwarming stories. We have some of the best potential stories as the building and knowledge spreads.

This is my sole work for the foreseeable future. Hopefully, my full Resilient Village concept will follow soon after. Paul, I firmly believe your vision will bear fruit here in Ukraine.

But I know I need the Permie community to add their expertise along the way. It's been years since my fingernails had a permanent soil collection trapped under them. Rocket stoves were not even on the scene or my husband & I would've been basking in their warmth on 30-below-zero, Lake Superior nights.

I've started my own post in the Community Forum:

Resilient Village: Permies Help Needed in Ukraine

Help is starting to come in already:
- Glenn Herbert is customizing plans that'll be adapted for the location.
- Jordan Beaupré quickly offered help in several areas. Look forward to his expertise.

The biggest need will be when I can finally reenter Ukraine. As the project moves along, I hope to get targeted advice from many of you "rocket scientists" in this wild & woolly Permie Think Tank. I get awfully overwhelmed and discouraged at times. This is the greatest challenge of my life. I just wish it had come along earlier in life (and with more money attached). But the need is now. No one else I can find here is meeting this need -- not on the massive scale required or in the hundreds of small communities affected by a total lack of power and other basic services.

Info is just starting to be posted. Check out my Community forum post, my profile, and my website with more coming soon:

https://www.roadmaptolife.org/

You can download the 2-pg PDF intro and please give me feedback! Hope to have the Ukrainian version done and uploaded soon followed by Russian, all with a little help from my new friends here -- and Google Translate.

Thanks, all!

Filename: RocketStoveHeatingInfo-2pageA4.pdf

File size: 790 Kbytes

[Download RocketStoveHeatingInfo-2pageA4.pdf]

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Lif Strand

pollinator

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Location: New Mexico USA zone 6

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Leslie Wilson wrote:Getting the News Out to the World - The World's Media Is in Ukraine, Paul!
...
I've started my own post in the Community Forum:
Resilient Village: Permies Help Needed in Ukraine

Here's a link to that post in the Community Forum: https://permies.com/t/193748/Resilient-Village-Permies-Needed-Ukraine

Lif Strand
New Mexico USA

Lif Strand

pollinator

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Location: New Mexico USA zone 6

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Lif Strand wrote:

Leslie Wilson wrote:Getting the News Out to the World - The World's Media Is in Ukraine, Paul!
...
I've started my own post in the Community Forum:
Resilient Village: Permies Help Needed in Ukraine

Also, can you or someone set up a GoFundMe for the purpose of supporting your incredible project? I don't know if such things are allowed to be posted here on permies.com, but maybe on your web page?

Lif Strand
New Mexico USA

Leslie L Wilson

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Lif, the GoFundMe has been growing in my brain since May. Should get it up & running soon. Any & all ideas for its first campaign are appreciated.

Along that line, if these stoves are to be built mainly from recycled material in bombed-out communities:
1. what supplies do you think will need to be purchased?
2. what basic tools needed?

I'd like to go in assuming that we won't have somebody's workshop to borrow from, so think about starting from the ground up.

Also intrigued by portable models crafted from empty ammo boxes/cans. Anyone with experience that has some thoughts? (and maybe photos you're willing to share) for a sceond GoFundMe campaign?

Also thanks for adding the link to my post. I'm still struggling with all the ins & outs of posting here.

Arthur Angaran

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Hi, I have thought about this a bit. I went to a home building show. Over 100,000 people come to the show every year. How about a travel RMH going to the different shows? Even a nice looking, non working model, with a large TV showing a RMH loop on it. Also Lap tops for more extensive selling. This way, at least here in the US, you will reach a whole lot of people who generally would not be reached by the things already in place. Only thing missing is funding and sales people, and knowledge on which shows to go to. Possibly croudfunding to get started?

Put everything on rolling flatbeads. Have a nice backdrop for the RMH< maybe large picture of cozy couple warm and happy in their home, TV for showing different real short RMH Vidioes to capture attention. Maybe even a corporation to build RMH in and around cities.

How about going to reservations and speaking with the elders when there are no shows running?

paul wheaton

author and steward

Posts: 52410

Location: missoula, montana (zone 4)

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Arthur,

I heartily encourage you to do exactly that!

My books, movies, videos, podcasts, events ... the big collection of paul wheaton stuff!

Jeremy VanGelder

gardener

Posts: 1208

Location: Proebstel, Washington, USDA Zone 6B

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Here is the form for people to request guests on the Joe Rogan Experience. Shall we hammer it with requests for interviewing Paul?

Joe Rogan

And this is what I just submitted in the form:

Hello Matt,

Could you please interview Paul Wheaton on the show. He is the Duke of Permaculture, and has all kinds of ideas for weaning the world off of fossil fuels while providing a more luxurious life. This winter is shaping up to be really cold and miserable for a number of people. Paul can tell them about Rocket Mass Heaters, which provide clean heat while minimizing deforestation. Paul is very experienced at podcasting, having produced more than 600 of his own. If you have him on, your listeners will be engaged and they might learn things that will allow them to save their lives. You can find his work at richsoil.com and permies.com

Cheers,
Jeremy VanGelder

Paul Wheaton is a powerful advocate of permaculture. He was dubbed the "Duke of Permaculture" by Geoff Lawton and Sepp Holzer, and the "Bad Boy of Permcaulture" by Occupy Monsanto. Paul is the owner of permies.com, coderanch.com, richsoil.com, and Wheaton Labs. He has produced over 600 podcasts, 200 youtube videos and a dozen feature-length films. He has presented at over 100 events around the US, and has written dozens of articles and 2 books on topics ranging from luxuriant environmentalism to homesteading skills. The events he hosts at his property, Wheaton Labs, have resulted in the development of rocket stove and rocket mass heater technology, massive earthworks featuring extensive hugelkultur, solar dehydrators, lots and lots of round wood timberframe structures like a truly passive earth-bermed solar greenhouse and a mega-cheap and luxurious home design called the Wofati, as well as many, many other permaculture innovations.

Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire.

George Yacus

pollinator

Posts: 553

Location: Mid-Atlantic, USDA zone 7

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Leslie Wilson wrote:
Along that line, if these stoves are to be built mainly from recycled material in bombed-out communities:
1. what supplies do you think will need to be purchased?
2. what basic tools needed?

How about a 125mm Soviet era smoothbore cannon off of a destroyed T-90 battle tank getting turned into an RMH heater?

That's a 100,000,000 viewer story right there.

Glenn Herbert

Rocket Scientist

Posts: 4526

Location: Upstate NY, zone 5

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Fun idea

At 5" diameter equivalent, not actually practical, but I am sure there are plenty of salvaged parts that would be suitable.

Leslie L Wilson

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George & Glenn, now you're getting in the spirit of it! I have no doubt these creative Ukrainians will devise some fascinating creations -- once we plant the seed of the idea.
I've attached a file I'm collecting of what's being done currently. I recommend looking at the news video of the tour of a frontline heated quarters for troops. First time I've seen anything this sophisticated, tho. The biggest problem is the less-innovated elderly and sickly who stayed behind when others evacuated as in the last slides.

I still struggle with getting images in these forums. Appreciate thoughts to see where I'm going wrong. Hopefully, this file will attach.

The link to the news piece (better than just images)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKwtX-Jl9Fk&list=PLT6yxVwBEbi1s0ugBXQwbrOkUdCkIacO_

Filename: Current-Frontline-Heating.pdf

File size: 1 megabytes

[Download Current-Frontline-Heating.pdf]

Download Attachment

C. Letellier

pollinator

Posts: 968

Location: Greybull WY north central WY zone 4 bordering on 3

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Suggestion. Maybe right now is the ideal time to pushing rocket mass heaters in europe? If a bunch of permies simply link back to the best articles here on RMH stressing the build it yourself nature.(they have major shortage on woodstoves to purchase), greater fuel efficiency(high wood prices), lower pollution and so on. Post on the discussion threads on various european you tube channels? Especially those on survival, back to nature and other already permies topics. It would take a bunch of permies blowing an hour or a few hours hunting up these sites and simply posting a link or set of links. Suggest building a premade message that most clearly says what you want said.

Here is the link I tripped over causing me to think this. If we could find a few hundred such sites and various groups and simply share a premade message? Maybe get a couple made for various languages to be able to share? Build the message here on this link of create whole new thread that cross linked with here?

Country oriented nerd with primary interests in alternate energy in particular solar. Dabble in gardening, trees, cob, soil building and a host of others.

Leslie L Wilson

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my thinking exactly! Have you checked out my flyers yet? English & Ukrainian, posted on my website:
RoadMapToLife.org
and spreading soon to the rest of my social media platform and other targeted people & places.

Links include 2 of Permies.com main videos that Paul features:

RMH-FlyerForUkraine-English

RMH-FlyerForUkraine-Ukrainian

Looks pretty cool in Ukrainian, but still struggling with a decent translation for RMH systems. Any other names I can give these pieces that might translate better -- and not sound like troops exploding a missile for heat

Mike Haasl

steward

Posts: 15505

Location: Northern WI (zone 4)

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That's wonderful Leslie!!!

For English, I'd suggest the following small changes:
- Uses: Heating plus cooking, baking or drying
- For the ducting picture the words might sound better as: "You can use reclaimed steel pipe or ducting" (I'm not sure what the mention of "further" is trying to say so maybe there's more to the translation that I'm not picking up on?
- The wonderful drawing on the right suggests that you need a stainless steel barrel but a paint-free plain steel barrel works just fine. I realize that's a borrowed drawing so you may not be able to change it
- After the word Cost? I would just remove the word "almost".

I'm not sure if this would be easy to do but adding a QR code so that people can get all the video and website links with a click could be awesome.

SKIP books, get 'em while they're hot!!! Skills to Inherit Property