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Willow Feeder movie

Andrés Bernal

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Lots of footage about the willow feeder systems at Wheaton Labs has been taken by different peeps, We have enough to make a Willow Feeder movie! I think this project is KickStarter worthy, would you be interested in supporting this endeavor?

What would you like to see in the movie? Would you like plans to go with it?

Please help me convince Paul for this be our next KickStarter by giving thumbs up to this post :)

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Timothy Norton

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How fitting!

I just picked up a copy of The Humanure Handbook and have started reading it.

I'd contribute.

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Bryan de Valdivia

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If it would include trombe wall details/shematics and use-cases for trombe vs solar powered dc exhaust fans, I'd contribute.

Looking to make real-life permies connections in mid-MO, reach out if you're in the neighborhood!

Arthur Wierzchos

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I would love to see this movie.

My interest would mainly be in getting easy/basic design ideas to play with that can be adapted to different scenarios, such as mini portable and temporary storage without risking the creation of too much pathogen load, and losing nutrients to off-gassing.

At the moment we live in a house with flushing toilets, which I refuse to use. I would love to find ways to improve on our less than perfect approach of collecting into buckets with sawdust and leaf litter and adding into the center of a pile every few weeks, which is the method inspired by Jenkins Humanure handbook. While it's the easiest solution I've come across so far, Im sure there is room for improvement.

Pauls latest podcast on the willow feeders was fantastic. I was left hoping that you all would be able to come up with and release a few designs in an image or diagram form with a short guide to best practices.

Id send some pie/coin toward something like that for sure. Its something that needs to be created at our place ASAP.

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Christopher Weeks

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I don't know that you'd have the footage to support this goal, but it would be most useful to me to see what's the minimum infrastructure I have to put in place to build something like this that's good for one family rather than a community and event center. (But let's be honest, I'll back it at some level regardless.)

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T Blankinship

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Yes, I would support it.

I feel that if you could show everything from plans to building it. I feel the key would be showing how the current system (i.e. sewage lagoons and tanks) use a lot of power. Mostly from moving it from a low spot to a higher one and from one place to another. Sewage lagoons on a city level can be acres of land. Then showing how a willow feeder does not need power and machines to do a good job. Lastly, how if used right makes things better.

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Paul Fookes

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I'm in.

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Clay McGowen

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YES YES YES!!

The world needs this, I want this, I will back this, let’s go!!

Anthony Dougherty

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Id be down

“Increase and multiply, and fill the earth, and gain dominion over it, and rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the heavens and all the livestock and all the earth and all the creeping things that creep upon the earth.”

Coydon Wallham

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If Stephen would be up for it, I'd like to see the Poo With a View completed while all of the construction details were being filmed. Or maybe there is a call for another new Willow Feeder?

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Andrea Bloom

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I'm into it!

Please include LOTS of ideas for alternatives to sawdust &/ or where to get lots of sawdust.

Also, include scaling to smaller buckets instead of 30+ gallon cans. I think many of us would rather not have to move full 30 gallon cans and don't want to have to dump smaller buckets into larger cans. Maybe 10 or 15 gallon buckets would work?

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Great idea!

I would really enjoy a movie about how to manage humanure safely for a beginner crowd.

We have compost toilets set up and talk about it a lot, there seems to be a lack of beginner information out there. Would be great to be like: “oh, and there’s a great, short movie explaining the basics and showing a simple design”.

Also the proper sizing (minimum size) per person would be great to get some knowledge on. How big for example does the collection part need to be for 4 people that stay year around to be able to switch from one to the other and leave it for a whole year?

Or are the willow feeders using barrels?

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Jan Jesse

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👍

Brett LeCompte

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Yes, time for a movie describing the latest and greatest in sensible human waste management. Thank you!

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I would love to see this movie. It would be great to include recommendation for different climates. I live in the desert with little access to sawdust or any other excess organic material for that matter. Alternatives to sawdust or organic material pretty please. How about chopped up and dried out invasive species? Tamarisk, wild mustard, russian thistle etc....would this method kill seeds or further spread the invasive plant?

Gratefully off-the-grid
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Zone 9b, 9 inches of rain if lucky!
Perm.Cert. Zaytuna College, Berkley

Arthur Wierzchos

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Andrea Bloom wrote:
Please include LOTS of ideas for alternatives to sawdust &/ or where to get lots of sawdust.

Ill throw my two cents in for now if it helps you while you wait for the really great advice to be revealed in the movie...

For sawdust/shavings local saw mills, cabinetry makers, or other wood workers are some of the sources I've found in the past. Its important to clarify with them if they are cutting woods with glues, paints, or other chemical treatments before accepting any of it - if you want to avoid the toxic gick. One place i used to pick up from I would always bring the mill owner a 12 pack of beer as a thank you, and specifically his favorite kind of beer. After a while he stopped letting others take the wood shavings because it ended up being too much of a hassle dealing with people, but he always let me come in. I was getting it by the trailer load.

Then I moved to Taiwan and didn't really have access to any saw mills, but there was a lot of organic rice being grown in our area. Again I was able to get connected with a source of high carbon material - the rice husk.

We also started making biochar from the rice husk, which worked great for our humanure system. Biochar can be made from all kinds of things.

Dry leaf litter is great, especially if it is smaller leaves, or pulverized through a lawnmower. Often people will gladly give you their leaf litter.

Dried grass clippings are another thing we have used. Vacuuming up and pulverizing through a push mower on a dry day ideally gets you a fine product.

If you don't want the petrochemical footprint they a scythe works great. Cut the grass strategically and let it dry out in the sun if the weather allows. Rake it up into storage bags/bins and place into a dry area.

Ive heard of people using shredded paper and cardboard, but I cant say how affective it is, as Ive never really gone that route. I concur with Mr Wheaton that the glues and inks are probably best avoided.

Nature provides so much of the materials we need. Its really about timing, and having the ability to jump on the opportunities as they come, then having a place to store the surplus for when its needed.

Worst case scenario you can buy some kind of high carbon material from a pet store or a farm and garden dealer.

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Can you use ash instead of sawdust??? That I have a lot of!

Gratefully off-the-grid
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Michael Gaglio

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I would support this movie. I wish it already existed! Thanks for making this a thing.

T Melville

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Very limited funds, but I'd get in at the $1 level. (Might kick in a few more bucks if it looks like it would matter.)

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Samantha Lewis

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Jen Anderson wrote:Can you use ash instead of sawdust??? That I have a lot of!

Hello Jen!

We just had a webinar on willow feeders and someone asked that very question.

I believe the answer was:
You can build a willow feeder and use only ash. It will safely and effectively manage your poop. Ashes and wood shavings behave differently in the bin. Either one will work but you cannot use both in the same bin.
Pick one or the other and use that exclusively for each bin.

You might want to check out the recent webinar to get the full details.

Here is the link:
https://permies.com/wiki/271114/permaculture-smack-Willow-Feeders-Dec

I think you will have to get pie to see the replay:
https://permies.com/pie

We do live webinars on different permaculture topics almost every Saturday. People with pie get to participate and ask questions. It is a lot of fun.

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Paul Fookes

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T Melville wrote:Very limited funds, but I'd get in at the $1 level. (Might kick in a few more bucks if it looks like it would matter.)

If 100 people chip in $, that is $100. A dollar is a valuable contribution to any kickstarter. Not everyone is flush with coin. That is what makes kickstarters great.
Cheers

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Leif Ing

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I am in, would especially appreciate plans as well as maybe some alternatives/alterations for scaling up or down a bit. The scaling cans would be fairly easy, as one could just build a short stand or bench to raise the height of where the can sits, I’d think.

Not sure how much my wife would enjoy using it, but I want one myself after using it when spending two weeks at the first PEP1 event! 😍😂 However, designing plans and laying out an order of steps to build a project like this is not my forte. I can follow directions though…

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Douglas Wurtz

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Here's one for you! Do a search for Anna Edley's, Solviva Vermicomposting toilet. It's just like a regular flush toilet, but you'll be amazed at what comes out the other end!

Steve Spence

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I've been composting my humanure for 20 years. I'm in!

Jane Mulberry

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I would support it, though at a lower level.

Our house has a flush toilet, and there is no way on God's earth that my husband would ever use a humanure or willow feeder system instead. I collect and use my urine on the garden and compost heap, but still use the flush toilet for my solid waste. I want to set up a one-person system for dealing with that.

Ideally there needs to be information on scaling down to family, couple, and one-person systems. And I would love to see supporting written materials and transcript of the video, as I have a health problem that means I can't watch more than a few minutes of video at a time without getting a migraine. I've backed most of the Kickstarts over the past few years, and have not been able to watch a single video!

I'm only 64! That's not to old to learn to be a permie, right?

Cécile Stelzer Johnson

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I have a totally illegal poop house near my garden: It is disguised as a hand tool shed and no one besides us is visiting it.
Since between pee, poop, sawdust and fall leaves it eventually will get full, I'm thinking about what I'll plant in the hole once the poop house is dragged a few feet away. The TP used in furtherance of my ...goal gets burned.
I suspect that the reason many folks don't talk much about a poop house or humanure is that for the most part, we all have a functioning bathroom, maybe 2, and the idea of making such a huge switch is daunting. Perhaps, also the idea of using human manure evokes dangers of contamination and sickness, but I'm just guessing here..

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bruce Fine

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after reading all the comments I kind of have an idea.
but for those of us who dont know it would be helpful to explain
what is a willow feeder
why is it called willow feeder
is an outhouse different? if so? how? and why? (or do I not understand what this is all about)

please understand there are some people who just dont know about these things

Andrés Bernal

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72! thumbs up, member we need at least 200 :)

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Melody Godfrey

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I would like to watch the movie, and plans would be a great bonus. I’ve been think of doing something along these lines for a camp on rural acreage.

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Richard Henry

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This is an interesting project. I would like to see it, a couple of caveats: I have concerns regarding what should or should not be used as cover in a composting system. For example, I see in the Humanure book that they suggest using junk mail. I would not want to see junk mail or colored paper used to cover compost material due to levels of heavy metal such as lead in the colored inks. That will reside in any compost and is unlikely to be removable except by uptake by vegetation and no humans or animals should eat any of said vegetation as that allows concentration.
Also, is there any way to remove the PUFAs or forever chemicals most humans eat, contain and pass on through their waste? If so, removal or disposal of toxic components should be a very prominent section of this project. Put that in there and I would be very interested in donating.
We did not have an in-home toilet until I was around 11 years old. I remember the outhouse out by the barn as well as in local park facilities. Noxious places and gathering sites for critters with stingers in the summer.

Susie Stillwell

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I would love a movie to share with my reluctant friends and family, and plans would be extra special 😁

Rebekah Harmon

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Jen Anderson wrote:Can you use ash instead of sawdust??? That I have a lot of!

I've tried this in Cooper Cabin and it did not mitigate smell.

Being weird is easy. Making it mainstream is hard. Be brave! https://www.youtube.com/@healthygreenbrave

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Rebekah Harmon

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I'd like there to be a portion of the movie that covers the legality of willow feeders in a variety of municipalities. Pretty sure in Idaho, Health and Welfare has to sign off on it, and it has to be permitted. Or a fee or something.

Being weird is easy. Making it mainstream is hard. Be brave! https://www.youtube.com/@healthygreenbrave

Rebekah Harmon

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I thought I was going to make a willow feeder fun kid video this summer, but never did. I took about 3 minutes of footage. Kids popping out of the toilet seats, or dancing together on the sitting area. Would you like that footage?

Being weird is easy. Making it mainstream is hard. Be brave! https://www.youtube.com/@healthygreenbrave

Andrés Bernal

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82! thumbs up, member we need at least 200 :)

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Rudy Valvano

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Richard Henry

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I'd support this. Since the audience is all over the Eco-scale, I hope it helps convince them it's better than an outhouse. I'm especially concerned it proves the pathogens are gone in the final product. But how to test that?

The gas from the system could be tested by collecting it over time and sending it to a certified environmental lab. The same would be possible for the effluent. I suggest the collector be someone with experience at taking water tests for hazardous waste sites. Contact with the lab is a must since they should be sending a trip blank (distilled water sample that just travels to and from the test site; a comparison sample - a sample of what is entering the digester and a sample of completed compost to allow full comparison of starting conditions vs final product.

Tammy Mayer

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bruce Fine wrote:after reading all the comments I kind of have an idea.
but for those of us who dont know it would be helpful to explain
what is a willow feeder
why is it called willow feeder
is an outhouse different? if so? how? and why? (or do I not understand what this is all about)

please understand there are some people who just dont know about these things

This is me. I'm this person who doesn't understand these basics.

We are talking about putting in a composting toilet inside our home, and maybe having one outside for when we're gardening, or when there are people visiting the garden. Looking at the photo above, I'm wondering if the willow feeder has to be outside. If so, what resources are there for me to create something indoors (people have mentioned the book Humanure, but maybe there are other resources and plans you know of?)

In the comments here some people have mentioned moving their composting toilet to new a spot in the garden. Is that necessary? This would not be ideal for us in our little space.

Ultimately, as a total newbie to the topic, I'd want to know what the parameters of using the willow feeder are before paying for anything. Hope this helps!

We're doing an ecological and mostly-diy renovation of 300-year-old building in Champagne, France. Aiming for a permaculture yard/garden in 2025. Sharing a few videos on IG and FB: @bonjouradventure

Tammy Mayer

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In the email, you asked how to get someone from 0 (no knowledge) to 5 (raving fan). Here are some ideas.

T Blankinship wrote: I feel the key would be showing how the current system (i.e. sewage lagoons and tanks) use a lot of power.

YES. This comparison would be really fantastic. To show the overall impact of the current system (flush toilets) compared to the overall impact of your new system. You could even throw in a comparison with 'regular' composting toilets (again, not clear on the differences to Willow Feeders), to demonstrate the value of the new system. This impact could include energy, water use, transportation via truck, etc. It could also be the impact on their personal finances. Or maybe there's a positive impact with regard to manure for the plants? (I'm still a newbie, so I have no idea if this is a thing. I suspect it is.)

The other thing that was mentioned here in the comments has to do with the bacteria. If your movie trailer (and the movie itself) showed that this system is not going to spread disease, that could help move someone from 0 to a 3 -5. But this fear of poop contamination is hard wired in a lot of people, especially in North America, so this may be one of the biggest hurdles to getting people to even be open to considering the new system.

And the last elements that could help move someone from 0 to 5 quickly has to do with showing the maintenance and the smell. Will they have to touch the poop? How close do they need to get? How often do they need to be in proximity? Can they hire someone to deal with the poop? At what point will there be a smell? Is there a smell while you use the toilet? Or perhaps when you move the poop?

We're doing an ecological and mostly-diy renovation of 300-year-old building in Champagne, France. Aiming for a permaculture yard/garden in 2025. Sharing a few videos on IG and FB: @bonjouradventure

T Melville

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Some folks have been asking what a willow feeder is. Paul talks about it in a thread here, and in his podcast here, here and here.

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