How to meet men: Things every young lady might want to know

elle sagenev wrote:

Dale Hodgins wrote:Except when I was married 25 years ago, I have always been the one with the least invested in the relationship, and I've enjoyed the power that that equals. The problem with that is that you end up listening to a lot of complaints, when they figure that out. Many women will say that they are happy keeping it light. But give that a year or two, and it often changes. Then you deal with anger and accusation.

Gotta say Dale, the fact that you enjoy power from being less invested would be a red flag for me. A pretty big one.

That's completely understandable. I'm sure I deserve a good spanking. But I am heavily invested in my current relationship and I was in the one just previous, so I consciously avoided monopolizing power. I think it's a carryover from my work life. I don't really like to be involved in any sort of work, where I deal with equals. I take on the contract, so that I'm in control and then I hire people to do whatever I say.

But that's not the kind of relationship I want, or I would find a girl who lives in a grass hut somewhere and marry her.

I was referencing the list that Mick made, and he had mentioned that the person least invested has all the power. And I saw myself in that mirror.

I have been in the other person's shoes, and I didn't like it one bit. I was very keen on this woman that I had dated a few times and she found time for me, very occasionally. I made numerous calls , before we were ever able to settle on a time to meet .  This happened every time. So, finally I left it with her and said give me a call when you have time. She never did, and that was the end of it.

I think she may have been someone who really enjoyed being pursued, but it went on long enough that it seemed like I had caught her, but she still made it difficult every time. Water under the bridge.

Dale

Figure you know this, but I'll add:  You don't give another power (of some sort), they can't move you. What's the fun in that? Might as well by one of those sex toys. The unexpected is the wine of life. Once I was waiting on a lady and she came out of her room and I literally was on my feet and half way across the room before I had a single solitary thought in my head. Kinda like somebody else was moving my body. Amazing! Those things don't happen that often.

Yeah, I know. Habits are habits. Maybe sometimes let the game move to a field she's strong in. And think, it's usually way more fun to play on a person's strength's than their weakness. Just watch out for you both trying to occupy the same space at the same time; that's not so good a sign.  Best luck.


Rufus

Robert-- thinking about it more, I remembered some things. When I dated someone with kids, I got really emotionally attached to those kids. Then when the relationship ended, those kids weren't a part of my life anymore. It added another layer of grief to the whole thing. It's not something I would ever want to experience again, being told I'm now to take care of this child, and then having that child taken away from my life.

Hi Sarah:

When I dated someone with kids, I got really emotionally attached to those kids. Then when the relationship ended, those kids weren't a part of my life anymore. It added another layer of grief to the whole thing. It's not something I would ever want to experience again, being told I'm now to take care of this child, and then having that child taken away from my life.

 True.  It can be a very hard thing.  That, too, is a strong factor in my world.  

There is a young woman who I just re-met at a wedding this summer.  I'd seen her a couple times in the last few years (as she is still somewhat a part of this small community), but it's been a long time since I lived with her.  I lived with her and her mom for 4 years, starting when she was seven.  Now she's 20.  Not seeing her, after her mom and I split up, was really hard on me.  So I can really relate to what you are saying.  That said, my time spent with her was a great learning time for me, and an incredible experience being a part of her home life, and support and co-parenting.  I had known her mom since before she was born and had met her dozens of times before her mom and I got together, so the bond had already formed, early on.  She was a real blessing to me, and I don't regret having made the choice to be with her mom (even though that didn't work out), as it gave me the opportunity to have that relationship and bond with her at that time.  She was a great kid.  Super smart, independent, adventurous, and very creative and fun to be around.  The time that we spend with anyone can be a blessing to them.  We can make a huge positive impact on a child's life in a short time.  I really believe that.  

It was really unfortunate, though, that she had to witness her mom and I breaking down our relationship, as her parents had split a few years before when she was quite young.  I had also been friends with her dad years before.  Her brothers were older and had both lived with us and with their dad, and although we had been somewhat close, there was never quite the same bond that I had with her.  Still, I miss them quite a lot as well.  I knew her brothers from an early age.  She and I had a really nice talk at the wedding and her brothers were there too.  And it was great to see all of them, including their Mom and her new guy.  The kids were all so grown up and mature now that it's hard to think of them as the young vulnerable kids they were not so long ago.  She now has her hair dyed orange and she has a girlfriend!-I barely recognized her, but I did.  Still the same girl that I knew and cared so much for.  It did bring up a bit of sadness about not having been able to be a part of her life for so long.  

This is not the only occurrence of this situation in my history; just the one that I think about the most.  Not easy.  But life isn't really easy when love and such are involved.  The hard things are the things which teach us the most.  The pain, hurt, and such, come when we open our hearts.  They are part of life, no matter what, especially when we are real ourselves and allow ourselves to be vulnerable in the world.  There is a great song by one of my favorite artists, Scott Cook... "If it won't break your heart, it ain't love."  Almost brings a tear to my eye, every time I hear it. It's just so true. Another quote, I can't remember who said it   "It's better to love and have lost, then to not have loved at all."  Too bad that kids can complicate the situation with the additional potential for grief as they are such a great blessing to be around in the capacity of family.  They deserve to have good people with their parent.  And it's such a shame that so many people choose not to date people who have children, but it's understandable.  When putting myself out in the dating world, I don't rule out a lady who has kids (It's not a deal breaker for me) but it certainly does complicate things, and it definitely gives me pause to consider.  So it's not like I would say that I'm totally OK with it either.  It's something that I would have to weigh out, depending on the situation.  Like everything in permaculture:  It depends on too many factors to say one way or another without a lot of observation.   Sometimes it's a lot easier to simply draw the line.

Greg Martin wrote:Mike beat me to this advice (I'm a chemical engineer).  My wife and I have been married for 26 years.  I mentioned this thread to her and her advice was as follows:

"Go for a geek!"  I said, "but wait...." and she said...."Oh course you're not a geek".  So sweet....I'm super geeky.  

Awwwwwww!

Jan White wrote:Maybe this should go on the men's thread cause I don't know if this would work for women or not, but Roberto brought it up here so...

With online dating, he mentioned not contacting certain women because they said they wanted a taller man. I think that's a mistake. I contacted whoever I wanted and let them look at my profile and vital statistics and decide for themselves if something in there was a dealbreaker. Now I know studies have shown that men tend to have a certain type of woman and that's that. Women on the other hand tend to change their type based on their current partner's appearance. My husband is nothing like what I always thought my type was, so don't rule yourself out. Let the other person decide. If your conversation and personality click with the other person I bet a lot of other stuff won't matter so much anymore.

I think that's good advice, though I tend not to follow it ;)  I'm 5'6" and many of the women I've dated were taller than me (it's not hard to find a woman taller than I am), several over 6'.  I've had many women over the years tell me that they didn't realize I was short, which I find funny, and I've had a few women who've stated that they wouldn't date anyone shorter than them tell me that they'd date me.  

So, while my personal experience has been that some women will just throw that criterion out the window if they like the guy, I have to admit that I find it a bit shallow, so I often just move on, which probably makes me just as shallow.  That only applies to internet dating, though, because I have no issue with asking out taller women.  It's probably stupid of me to disqualify them for stating that preference, but there are a lot of women out there.

My advice, then, would be to only use qualifiers if they are 100% deal breakers.  

Women sabotaging other women and themselves.

This is something I've seen happen over and over again. Women who try to raise their own standing through slut shaming or other means. I saw quite a bit of it when I was actively searching on a Philippine dating site. Some women want to know the names of others that you have talked to, because they want to give their opinion on whether she might be a scammer or a slut. Some go into this in their profiles, issuing dire warnings to stay away from certain types. And I suppose that by issuing These Warnings they are trying to convey the they are not one of these women. But it all becomes so negative, that I don't heed any warning they give.   Instead I skip over that profile because she seems like an angry bitch.

There are many others who go over their own positive qualities and leave it at that.

Others go overboard on self depreciation. They will say that they are just a simple girl and not pretty and not too smart. I don't know if they think this is going to help them. But it's common. A few of them contacted me, and I had several pleasant conversations with them. One of their requirements in a man is that he be humble. I always tell them that I'm the very opposite of that and I get them to go and read my profile. I stated that I have no use for Catholicism and I covered that taboo subject of sex extensively. Basically stating that I'm not interested in cold fish. This always sends them running either away from or toward me. Very few have been neutral on these two subjects.

A large number are pretending to be who they aren't. Women with naturally dark skin and kinky hair use a product called celebrity soap which bleaches them whiter than most Swedes. The look is often completed with hair dyed blond. In my profile I said that I hate the bleached china doll look and prefer people in their natural color. The coolest girl on the site is a 22 year old, strikingly beautiful woman with dark skin. She's looking for someone 20 years younger than me, but she sent me a message saying, "Dale, you are a twisted, sick man, with problems, and I like that." Then she thanked me for striking a blow for the natural girls. In her profile, she lists her appearance as "smokin hot." She's not having any success and before I became attached, I encouraged her to try the older crowd, meaning me. She agreed that if she went that way, I would be first in line but then she told me that I'd die of a heart attack if she got her hands on me. And that was the end of it. We've talked a few times but that was never in the cards. I don't know what to make of how these girls choose to present themselves. This beautiful smart girl presents herself in a very positive way and gets no results. And I know that some of the extremely self depreciating ones have found mates, which seems backward to me.

The other way that I see these women beating up on others, is the way they talk about other women that have children. I suppose there's a good chance that bar girls have children, but many of the women who have children, were in what they thought was a good marriage, until their husband ran off. Quite a few are are widows. But a single girl who is trying to narrow the field, will often go the slut shaming route, even though she doesn't know the woman in question. And it's done very subtly. Statements like, I don't know about girls like that. It doesn't really say much, except that they are girls like that.

The jealousy thing is rampant. We are all on a site that contains thousands of potential mates for both males and females. Within a few days, some will ask if you are willing to erase your other contacts in favor of her. The majority will also try to move men to Whatsapp or Skype or other one-on-one communication, where they won't always be looking at a sea of pretty faces.

Dale Hodgins wrote:Don't look for fixer uppers. The guy is going to be whoever he is.

You may find that there's a guy with many good qualities, but there's something about him that you really really don't like. Resist the temptation to get fixated on those good qualities, with a plan to renovate him later. It's not likely to happen the way you think. He's going to remain the way he is, and you may find this incredibly irritating.

Hello, I am new to permies.  You make a good point Dale. Change will happen over time, naturally. But it won't happen according to a woman's expectations or time frame. AND it may trigger the guy to resist, even if he sees potential in her.

Don't push too much on wanting or "NEEDING" TO BE MARRIED with children. You can certainly share your interest in marriage and children, but if a guy is resistant,  move on or if you still like other qualities in the guy, maybe chill and see where the relationship takes you both naturally. You just never know where life will take you, and life will take you where you belong, whether perceptionally "positive" or  perceptionally "negative". It is all lessons we need to learn. You may not end up with children but still live a wonderful life,  or have children together and be met with unforseen perceptionally negative circumstances. There are so many variables and complexities. You are where and when you need to be at any given moment.  Ever hear "The Story of the Chinese Farmer"? Look this up on youtube if you haven't. It can be very thought provoking.

Dale Hodgins wrote:Women sabotaging other women and themselves.

This is something I've seen happen over and over again. Women who try to raise their own standing through slut shaming or other means. I saw quite a bit of it when I was actively searching on a Philippine dating site. Some women want to know the names of others that you have talked to, because they want to give their opinion on whether she might be a scammer or a slut. Some go into this in their profiles, issuing dire warnings to stay away from certain types. And I suppose that by issuing These Warnings they are trying to convey the they are not one of these women. But it all becomes so negative, that I don't heed any warning they give.   Instead I skip over that profile because she seems like an angry bitch.

There are many others who go over their own positive qualities and leave it at that.

Others go overboard on self depreciation. They will say that they are just a simple girl and not pretty and not too smart. I don't know if they think this is going to help them. But it's common. A few of them contacted me, and I had several pleasant conversations with them. One of their requirements in a man is that he be humble. I always tell them that I'm the very opposite of that and I get them to go and read my profile. I stated that I have no use for Catholicism and I covered that taboo subject of sex extensively. Basically stating that I'm not interested in cold fish. This always sends them running either away from or toward me. Very few have been neutral on these two subjects.

A large number are pretending to be who they aren't. Women with naturally dark skin and kinky hair use a product called celebrity soap which bleaches them whiter than most Swedes. The look is often completed with hair dyed blond. In my profile I said that I hate the bleached china doll look and prefer people in their natural color. The coolest girl on the site is a 22 year old, strikingly beautiful woman with dark skin. She's looking for someone 20 years younger than me, but she sent me a message saying, "Dale, you are a twisted, sick man, with problems, and I like that." Then she thanked me for striking a blow for the natural girls. In her profile, she lists her appearance as "smokin hot." She's not having any success and before I became attached, I encouraged her to try the older crowd, meaning me. She agreed that if she went that way, I would be first in line but then she told me that I'd die of a heart attack if she got her hands on me. And that was the end of it. We've talked a few times but that was never in the cards. I don't know what to make of how these girls choose to present themselves. This beautiful smart girl presents herself in a very positive way and gets no results. And I know that some of the extremely self depreciating ones have found mates, which seems backward to me.

The other way that I see these women beating up on others, is the way they talk about other women that have children. I suppose there's a good chance that bar girls have children, but many of the women who have children, were in what they thought was a good marriage, until their husband ran off. Quite a few are are widows. But a single girl who is trying to narrow the field, will often go the slut shaming route, even though she doesn't know the woman in question. And it's done very subtly. Statements like, I don't know about girls like that. It doesn't really say much, except that they are girls like that.

The jealousy thing is rampant. We are all on a site that contains thousands of potential mates for both males and females. Within a few days, some will ask if you are willing to erase your other contacts in favor of her. The majority will also try to move men to Whatsapp or Skype or other one-on-one communication, where they won't always be looking at a sea of pretty faces.

I have found that most dating sites are chuck full of scammers and catfish. Especially those that offer free chat or messages.  If they ask you to text them, give your google hangouts address, avoid at all costs.  This is absolutely a scammer/catfish or as I say catphish scam.   There is a vulnerability in google hangouts and even android, perhaps other devices, where they can send a file that once it is received by your device, you can't stop it from downloading to your device,, they can hack your device and take it over.  There are articles explaining this better than I just have.  I call it the text me scam. They avoid most personal questions or take other people pictures and profile info and just copy and paste.  They will avoid sending a custom picture with you asking them to hold up a sign saying something super unique while showing their face.  This is the best way to detect scammers that I have found. They will even argue how dumb of an idea it is, that you should just trust them.

I have literally spent hours testing out different scenarios to see what happens. These are scammers.  About 95-99.999% are scammers on dating profiles. It is best not to give the benefit of the doubt.  Some are easier to detect than others, some can act very normal-ish, even seem intelligent. But if you take your time and ask plenty of questions, they will lose interest because you are not providing them with what they are looking for.

Dale Hodgins wrote:This beautiful smart girl presents herself in a very positive way and gets no results. And I know that some of the extremely self depreciating ones have found mates, which seems backward to me.

I think that if a man is confident and secure in himself, he finds those traits attractive in others. I think that if he's insecure, he finds confidence in others intimidating. Maybe some women depreciate themselves to make themselves more appealing to insecure guys? Anyway, I agree that it's totally backwards, but the less secure in their self a person is, the more likely they are to lower their standards and cling to someone who may not be that great for them. When someone is confident in who they are and what they want, and willing to wait for it, it shrinks the pool of potential mates down to a few great people or nobody at all.

Very interesting and helpful thread!

Thought I'd see something neat here... maybe I did I don't know.

At the moment, there is a 27yo female with a dozen or so guys ready to do whatever she wants - in the singles section.
As someone noted - "weeding them out" right?

As long as everything is someone else's fault, nothing can ever be fixed. It's like gravity that way:

The sick don't wed the well.

Why were my passed marriages so soul-shatteringly-horrible? Because I picked them. I put myself in a position where that was the option, and I took it. I can't do anything about them, but I can try to be a better me.

I didn't see a single post - though it might be buried somewhere in there - where somebody points out the bleedingly obvious: Only decent women get decent men.

Not saying by any means that a person is "bad" - but anyone who has a list of why this or that one was bad... well, you've got a common denominator in there somewhere don't ya? So do I - and that is where my work lies.

Smile.
Be clean.
Participate in conversations.
Drop the attitude that "there are no good men" - it is as visible as the fake color of some women's hair, and "good" men see it... and don't bother with you.
Also, there is this funny thing that some women do - yeah, you know it. That guy who is "such a good friend" who "deserves someone nice"...

And women say men can't take hints.

Oh, speaking of "hints" - you consider just, you know, using your words instead of a pretty manipulative power-play of behavioral code?
Looking for "tricks"? Yeah.... that isn't a genuine thing to do.
Plan to keep up those tricks for 20 - 60 years? Day in, day out?

Years ago they said "just be yourself" and then added all sorts of stuff that simply isn't myself. I most certainly can find "someone" - if I'm not myself. Can't keep them - and probably wouldn't want to.

Better to be alone, than with the wrong person. Lonely, difficult, and infinitely better.

I figure, when I've done enough with me, I'll either find her, or I'll die. Precarious, and true.

I would suggest doing that instead of the list of "good men" and "tricks to get them". I sure as hell don't want to be "tricked" into a sham romance. Being a plaything is.... horrible. Seriously - I don't want to be someone's wallet-sextoy again. Hurt me in ways I can't express.

Oh! And here's is the most interesting thing that I've noticed as I listen to women at large talk about dating woes:
"Men want blondes with big ..."

Not remotely. Some do, but not even half. I personally do not prefer that in the least - and no, I don't want a house slave either, or a momma.

Funny thing - I'll give you the most valuable piece of information that any genuine woman can have in finding her genuine guy!

You know what is universal among what genuine, mature men want in their mate?

Loyalty.

I mean the kind of loyalty that Patriots in revolutions have to one another. Absolute, no exceptions, death before dishonor loyalty. Like it or not, a huge portion of women can't be relied on not to scream at their man if his hours get cut at work - and I am not exaggerating. Turn TO each other, not ON each other. Start incessant nagging about something like socks (well, HE should just pick them up!) then wonder why he's pretty sure you wouldn't stay if he broke his back... or why he doesn't feel comfortable being vulnerable with you. Again: "Well, HE should just ...." See a pattern here? Just be loyal. The kind of loyalty that underpins society. The kind that supersedes law. The kind that is worth living and dying for.

Trying to dictate another's behavior is not treating them as an equal, and is anything but loyal. You are not my arm candy, I am not your plaything, forklift, wallet, gossip-source, handbag, etc...

Huge numbers of men feel their worst enemy is their wife. Even larger numbers are flat refusing to take the risk.

No disrespect at all intended - none - I offer this honestly and as kindly as I can. Mate - LIFE PARTNER - is the one, the only one. Protests pale in the face of how many of us are alone and looking. I see it all the time: "MY kids are my world, they come first" and I can only think "Why would you do that to them? What are you going to do when they want to have an identity apart from you? When they need to leave you for their own health? How is your man going to feel playing second-fiddle for the rest of his life? Just going to demand he be ok with it? That what you wanted? A man who sits passively and lets you use him?" I have never, ever, e.v.e.r seen that perspective result in healthy kids or lasting marriages. Which is supposed to grow up and leave? Which is supposed to die with you? Ask again which is supposed to come first. Incidentally, "putting the children first" usually turns them into tedious monsters. Hell yes you put them behind your mate! Shows them what reality is, and prevents years of psychic pain as they demand the world put them first - and are completely ignored. Also does wonders with healthy discipline.

There are very few things that I will not do for a woman who owns herself, and remembers that we are supposed to die together - and acts accordingly.

Ladies - I am treating you with respect and honesty by saying this. I don't speak for men, but I know ENORMOUS numbers who... simply don't see any possible benefit to outweigh the risks.

I would think that, rationally speaking, instead of expressing disgust at men for the alarming rise in artificial women, some of you might ask "have we really become so difficult that huge numbers of men would rather build fake women?" It would certainly be self aware.

Please start building ladies again - instead of perpetuating adolescent narcissism.

And for God's sake, quit badmouthing/ridiculing/ and gossiping about your man! NOTHING kills intimacy faster.

My two cents.

I don't believe I'm quite so jaded as Spencer, but I have witnessed the children first thing destroy a few otherwise promising unions. Once kids realize that they are at the center of a power struggle,  many will attempt to rule the roost.

Some mothers ditch their kids for a man, or get involved with someone dangerous to children. So, it could be worse.

I recently went looking for and found a mate. No children was an important criteria for me, and I love kids. But I didn't want to have to deal with exes and the devided loyalties that are unavoidable when taking on a whole family.

I have grown children. My fiance has worried many times, that my children's opinions could have some bearing on our relationship. So, I have explained at length, that no relative or other person, has any say in how I conduct my personal life. She's from a place where many relatives are consulted on these matters. So, it was a bit of a shock,  especially when I explained that I put absolutely no stock in anything that my mother thinks or says.

Many relatives like to chime in when their opinions are unsolicited and unwelcome. She has difficulty saying no, to those who are very nosey, or who think their views matter. On many occasions,  she has said, "What if your brothers this or what if your ex wife that."  So, I remind her that they are all welcome to feed from our toilet. A few times,  I cut her off mid sentence, and asked, " What can they do?" And she has replied, " Eat from the toilet." It still comes up at least once a week. " What if your family don't want you to pay for my sister's school or to support my mother? " So, we go over it again.  "What if they don't want you to buy a farm in the Philippines? "  And it continues. These questions are coming up less and less over time, but my behavior is so far out of the norm, for what she's seen before, that it will take a long time to get used to. Wives in her country are often bullied by the mother in law. And sometimes they have no say in what happens in their own lives.

She really likes the idea of doing exactly what we want, without consulting anybody, but still thinks that we are getting away with something.

I was bored and I saw this thread so I thought I’d add my two cents. I’m not sure why some of this wasn’t mentioned. Ladies if you want to meet men there are lots of ways.  But if you’re hopelessly crippled by your emotional state these are probably not gonna help you anyway, but this is what I suggest.  YMMV, and the pandemic is not making it any easier, but it too will pass.
1 join a coed gym
2 Get a couple used golf clubs and start going to the driving range
3 Meetup has lots of groups kayaking,hiking,golf, running, dancing, volunteering, movies, eating out... join and participate

I thought whoever’s comment about the military base was good, but I didn’t appreciate the comment about avoiding military men.  There might be a few bad apples as in all populations, but on a whole officers and enlisted men are good people.  And ladies I don’t recommend using sex as a weapon as one person said, and guys reading this if you come across a lady that does that, run!   I also like the comment where ladies if you have kids you need to at least be able to see a potential partner at the same level of affection and devotion. And ladies if you have a spoiled pet, don’t put more than one picture in your profile of it, and be prepared to spoil a potential partner at the same or greater level.  You don’t have to be arm candy, but take a bit of pride in your appearance and wear the proper shoes for the occasion.  And maybe don’t over look older men, they maybe more set in their ways but you will have a better idea what you are getting.  

This is a great thread. I do feel that we need some updates as the world has changed since 2018 when this started.  
I have learned to be alone. I have narrowed down what I want and deserve in a partner and I have come to accept that I may be alone for many years.  I have learned to slow down with relationships. I think women and men have been scared of getting put in the "friend zone" when actually it's a great place to be. Get comfortable and sometimes all it takes is that day you dress nice or shake your hips a certain way or look dapper AF that the other might see you differently and get the feels.
Also, I suggest everyone watch Daniel Sloss (jigsaw) on Netflix. His comedy is legit and with a great lesson on relationships.

This advice is for either sex.  Who do you want to meet?  What do they look like? What is their personality like?  How smart are they?  What is their career? What are their hobbies? Where do they hang out?  Now you know where to look.

I was once in Rochester, MN ...home of Mayo Clinic.  I was staying at an upscale hotel.  For my 4 day stay I observed a young woman, immaculately dressed...far more tastefully than her age might indicate. Just before I left for my flight I made a point of hunting her down to get her story.  I had assumed correctly, she was shopping for a doctor. She was shopping for a doctor with a specific personality who would go to that establishment.

We often think in terms of marrying for love or marrying for money. It is far more complex than that, of course. But, to take that argument head on, why not marry a millionaire for love?  Or, marry a Permie for love?  My point is not about love or money ... it is about artificially putting ourselves in either or situations.

Jenny Jones wrote:This is a great thread. I do feel that we need some updates as the world has changed since 2018 when this started.  

That's a great point.  Social distancing and mask wearing brings new challenges are we have to face those.  It wouldn't hurt us men to be creative with our masks.  Maybe a subtle signal that indicates we're single and capable?

"Behind this mask I'm doing the dishes"
"Behind this mask I'm mopping the floor and listening to a Little Women audiobook"
"I washed this mask myself when I did laundry without being asked"

For women its even simpler, as a previous poster pointed out:

"Behind this mask I'm naked."

or

"Behind this mask I'm naked. And I have beer."

Rob Lineberger wrote:
"Behind this mask I'm doing the dishes"
"Behind this mask I'm mopping the floor and listening to a Little Women audiobook"
"I washed this mask myself when I did laundry without being asked"

That's not very useful... I would prefer something like "I chop wood", "I can lift heavy loads all day", "I can butcher a hog and clean everything afterwards and make delicious sausages and bacon"... ;)

Still, I would probably hire a man to do all these things, and marry a woman...

"Behind this mask I'm naked. And I have beer."

...because this is more fun ;)
Just a lesbian perspective!

Rob Griffin wrote:
1 join a coed gym
2 Get a couple used golf clubs and start going to the driving range
3 Meetup has lots of groups kayaking,hiking,golf, running, dancing, volunteering, movies, eating out... join and participate

Being in places where the folks you want to date are likely to be is a fine idea.

For a possibly more permie version, I have met & read of several farming couples that met when one of them interned/WOOFed on the other persons farm. As someone who rarely gets off my farm, and specifically hopes for a partner with similar interests, this is encouraging...

It is also a bit of an ethical conundrum; I certainly do not want to make anyone uncomfortable by expressing interest while they are living on my property, potentially at least somewhat dependent on my transport... I have a vivid memory from a few years back of asking a girl out while we were both working on someone else's farm, and realizing after several long awkward moments that she was not interested, and afraid to say so.. not optimal!

Very good point! I've been wwoofing but so far all married couples running the farms. I can see that being challenging for an owner to ask out a wwoofer but it's no different than meeting people at work or the boss sleeping with the secretary. haha!

As long as it's respectful and polite, I see no reason not to. So far I haven't been to any farms with multiple woofers at a time so that hasn't helped in meeting folks. Especially now, they are limiting spots or requesting stays be longer than 4 weeks.

Thanks for sharing.

First step is being in position to meet eligible partners, that is where it gets complicated...

Rob Griffin wrote:First step is being in position to meet eligible partners, that is where it gets complicated...

100% Rob. Where oh where.

Pearl Sutton wrote:

Pearl Sutton wrote:  Add to our pouch of tricks, maybe? I'd rather have a pouch, a pretty one please.... :)

What's in your pouch of tricks? Both literally and figuratively. Literally, for my life in general (I'm not even really looking for a man right now, only sometimes wish I could) I always have business cards on me that have my name and email address at least, phone number is optional, if you are using them for dating, I'd vote email only, easy to give your number over email. If I were someplace like at a laser show and was interested in a shy guy, I'd come up with a question he can't answer, and has to think on, or find out, and offer him a card "When you find out, email me, I'd love to know!" Gives him a good excuse to make the next move. Also if he asks a friend "I met this girl, and she said this and gave me her email, do you think she's interested in me?" his friend will know to say "pretty good chance, yes. DO IT!" If his friend has any social skills, he'll know that's  a good sign. And as far as deal breakers go, I had a guy I told that to say "oh I can't do computers or email at all." oooh... wow. I type like I breathe. Probably a deal breaker. If he really interested me, a good excuse to see him again "Really? I'd be happy to teach you!"

Figuratively in my pouch is the trick of asking questions. I'll ask anyone anything. I find it an amusing way to talk to strangers. In line at the grocery store, show one of the magazines to the lady behind me in line "would you wear this outfit in public? I think I'd get arrested for showing too much flab!" That gets fun. Because I'm in the habit of it, it's easier to use on a guy. I think it was on the other thread, I said I ask guys when I'm at Habitat for Humanity or second hand stores "What is this thing?" I learn all kinds of interesting stuff, and have fun conversations, that are easy to extend or cut short.

What's in your pouch?

Have you looked in your pouch of tricks for meeting guys lately? Is it time to clean out the old ideas and put in some new ones? Got any good ones to add to my pouch ideas?

Have you looked in your pouch of tricks for meeting guys lately? Is it time to clean out the old ideas and put in some new ones? Got any good ones to add to my pouch ideas?

My pouch is empty. haha. I'm hoping that just working on my own place that someday I'll have to hire a handyman for something and he will stay forever.  Thinking that's my best bet these days. ; )
So that's something to add to the pouch. Hire in some help and have some cookies ready, just in case.

Jenny: cookies is actually a valid pouch thing! Give them to everyone you run into, male or female, old or young, and if nothing else, it'll break the ice. Doesn't matter who with, connections help. Never know who'll tell a nephew "I met this sweet lady...."

Abbey Battle wrote:I always thought of finding / keeping the 'right' person as having two pieces to a puzzle. Ideally you want your partner to be your *best friend. (*of course you may have other best friends but you still need intimacy and honesty in a relationship).

How one actually goes about finding that person, I know not - very easy to pick up a man for a one night stand but to find some one with whom you can spend (?) the rest of your life with, that's another matter.
I met my partner when we were both at school, I knew that we would get together, when we did, we were young enough to evolve around each other. It worked well. Thing I didn't count on was him dying young. Once you are older, it's harder to find another piece of the puzzle that fits with yours because we all become that much more inflexible with age. Lucky for the person who can just up and away with nothing tying them down.

Still doesn't answer the question of how to find some one, esp as it's such low priority for me.

I’m so sorry for your loss Abbey. That must have been very painful and difficult. In my grieving over certain losses I have found this comforting, “Grief is not a disorder, a disease or a sign of weakness. It is an emotional, physical and spiritual necessity, the price you pay for love.  The only cure for grief is to grieve.” - Dr. Earl Grollman

The grief I’ve experienced was certainly a price worth paying and risking for love.

I hope that even if you remain single that you can find community that helps fit that puzzle piece that seems to be missing.

Blessings.

Rob Lineberger wrote:

"Behind this mask I'm doing the dishes"
"Behind this mask I'm mopping the floor and listening to a Little Women audiobook"
"I washed this mask myself when I did laundry without being asked"

For women its even simpler, as a previous poster pointed out:

"Behind this mask I'm naked."

or

"Behind this mask I'm naked. And I have beer."

I feel that “Behind this mask...” is such a clever beginning that it should be used to start its own fill in the blank permie discussion.

For the ladies, if they express interest that always works on me. Expressing interest is the necessary first step. Many people seem to be walking around in their own personal, inviolable bubbles, and they are never going to meet anybody. A smile, a kind word, lack of conceit or guile, these are all the most endearing qualities of women (or any person, for that matter) in my honest opinion. They are also very rarely found! When a person is intelligent, it shows in the eyes, and it shows in the way that they move their bodies. This is also an endearing trait. To be loved, be lovable, is how this thing is supposed to work, I believe. To that tend, unplugging from television, smart phones, and newspapers is necessary, as all of these are abusive to the soul, and work to make one unlovable.

Very well said

The problem in meeting good men is social pressures to be performing in every imaginable way and financial stresses that destroy personalities.

Old post but your line...as an introvert I like doing things in my house or yard ...made me smile. My married sister with five kids and always a bunch of yard projects and I call this introvert behavior , similar to your phrase, our cocoons.  I have to bust out of my cocoon and go into town and buy groceries and supplies tomorrow and then be good for a few weeks.  As I have grown older, I like my cocoon. Lots of things to do in my house and seven acre woods and field...like cut and stock up a bunch of firewood.  I do not see how people can live in skyscrapers with no yards.  I do not sit in the house all day long on TV and Internet but do enjoy periods of that to balance working outside doing things like welding, building things, running my chainsaws etc..   I say..enjoy your cocoon. I just asked my sister how things were in her cocoon...she has planted 33 trees.

Mark Roberts-you are so very right. A neglectful father does not help a young or older woman make the best male partner choices. I had to learn the hard way.

[quote=Mark Roberts


The solution to that is VERY simple although woman in your position never follow it .... date a man who you find boring and are only marginally attracted to. You are attracted to men men who aren't good for you so you need to train yourself to be attracted to a "good guy", the problem with a good guy is he won't get your engine turned on. You can generally thank your abusive, absent or neglectful Dad for that.  

Yes you are correct. Speaking from experience, a neglectful father only teaches a young woman, or still learns in aging, the wrong type of men. Or not knowing what to do when a really good guy comes along. I’m finally in a good place-at 59.

For the ladies, and applies to the men also...

there are a surprising number of psycho or sociopaths out there and one of their main skills is to be sure you never see that coming.  They're very good at gaslighting and 'boiling the frog slowly" so the target is gradually sucked in until they're eventually wondering what the hell happened and the psycho/socio path has carefully programmed the victim to blame themselves.

My solution has been to go very slowly and watch carefully. There's a LOT of info online on spotting the games psycho/socios play. They all tend to run the same games so it's good self defense to know what those are.

Here's a three word relationship filter that has worked really well for me to evaluate others behavior and to know when to draw the line in the sand or jettison someone entirely...

no demands

no drama

no disrespect

Cross those with any frequency or after being warned about it a few times and you're history.

What has worked for me currently (12 years) is my girlfriend and I live separately. We each have our own busy lives, and get together frequently. We're totally committed to each other but neither of us could stand living with other people any more. We're both in the 70 year old range so lots of experience that brought us to this. We are also radically different personality types in that she's one of the everything must be "just so" neat and tidy and I'm a wild and messy creative sort. We would not fit together at any closer range but we both thoroughly enjoy each others company  as we have it.

One more to watch out for, particularly among folks of our political/social persuasion.

The injustice collector - thanks to Philip K Dick, the Sci-fi author for first defining this to my understanding.

I had noticed when I owned junkyards that there were some people who were always talking about how everyone did them wrong, how unfair everything/everyone was to them, or other whining or claiming victimhood  along the same lines.

Turns out, if you ever trusted them, or they were in a position where taking advantage of you was one of the options, they would always screw you over.
Always, without fail.

One more that might be helpful.

People definitely slot into about four major personality types, which has been noticed since the time of the ancient Greeks.  What we call personality types are just the different ways people go about getting what they want. There's lots online about how this rolls out into behaviors to expect that you didn't expect with each type, so, I'll just do a quick thumbnail sketch here and leave you to the internet to educate yourself. One other note on this...as society became much more complex post World War Two people started  behaving in hybrids of the four to get what they wanted, so today no one usually slots cleanly into a 'type" but there's usually one that's dominant.

1 - The bull -  "type A", bull in the china shop dominant personality.
Trys to get  what they want by running everything over like a truck

2 - The social butterfly -  using social skill to influence others

3 -Just so -  Everything, and I mean EVERYTHING must be  "just so" but it has to be to their specifications of just so.

4 - The rock - the "steady as you go" folks, solid, hard working guy or gal. The "worker bees"

It really will pay off to look up the nuances on these. What might seem at first glance to be something you want no part of may have unexpected benefits. An example...who wants to put up with the bull behavior?  Well, they're actually very interesting and entertaining if they're not going over the top in their dominance behavior.

Speaking for myself only...  When I was 18-24 years old I was really thick.  A girl could be sending me signals or flirting and I would just sit there and wonder if she was doing that or if I was imagining it.  Or not even realize there were signals at all.  So I'd just wait and wonder and she'd move on thinking I wasn't interested.  

I wonder how many lovely relationships I missed out on by being thick.  There might be other fellas like that out there so just telling a guy straight out that you're interested may save you a lot of consternation.

One more I forgot...

Check their empathy levels.

The base indicator for socio/psychopathy is little, or, usually, no empathy.

Do this in a circumspect way, because the socio/psychos know how to fake it,  and they will if they know that you're watching for it.

These folks survive by being excellent mimics of what they see.

If you need a good spot to study up on these folks, Quora seems to be fascinated with the topic and there are some VERY good posts.

One woman in particular knows she is a zero empathy possible psychopath but has a good heart and does not do the evil things. What I really like about her is that she explains in detail how her mind works and it's one of the most unique insights on the subject you'll ever get.  It's pretty scary. Sorry, but I can't remember her name.

I was saved by this once when working on a woman's car I was interested in. She and I were replacing body panels and when I hurt myself in a minor way it became glaringly obvious that there was zero empathy there. Just...zero...Wow!
My intuition said something was off and my conscious brain finally put 2 + 2 together on what.

I've been in that boat Mike, of thinking back on a conversation days/weeks/months later and suddenly realizing, "wait a minute, I think she meant... doh!" If only I had wised-up in my 20s about that, it has also happened in my 30s and my 40s that I can recall. Part of that I think is a concern to not misread being nice/friendly with flirting. Behavior that an introvert would consider major flirting might be normal daily interaction for an extrovert. I think the more we live in the online world, the tougher this gets as people are digitally filtered and you miss out on body language and other indicators that we have available in face to face situations.

There can certainly be manipulative people out there Dave, as well as people who are used to interacting in a particular dynamic that isn't healthy for them or others. I expect there a lot of people out there who hope/expect to meet their dream person through the plot of a Hallmark movie (the following a copy from thephilfactor.com), since it's that time of year:

"Guy or gal who left home several years ago and is very successful at some high falutin’ job in a big city somewhere comes back to their Smalltown, USA hometown for Thanksgiving or a funeral. Oh no! Their family’s business is failing! What? They need to stay longer than they planned. Maybe until Christmas! I can’t believe it. What are the chances of that?!!? Successful and attractive returning guy or gal runs into the sister or brother of a friend they knew in high school. He or she “was just a kid back then” but now they’re “all grown up” and they’ve really blossomed into a hunk or a hottie. At first they may not like each other but everyone else can see the obvious chemistry. Despite the fact that they annoy each other, they have to work together to save the business, ranch, town or whatever. There’s always something that needs saving. Of course it will all inevitably lead to a playful snowball fight between the two in the town square. And they both realize they like each other and they kiss."

But unfortunately some of these relationships end up being the plot of a Lifetime movie instead (I believe everyone here is wise enough to not fall into this scenario):

"A strong and ravenously independent (yet still somehow vulnerable and naive) woman meets a handsome and wealthy man who she makes very clear she does not need in order to feel complete. They have a fairy tale romance. She doesn’t really want to marry him, but does anyway, because hell, why not. Despite the fact that she now lives in a palace with her new husband and wants for absolutely nothing while having the hottest sex you can have offscreen of a TV-14 production, Wifey is not content. Somehow this is her husband’s fault. Since she’s quit her job (for whatever reason) Wifey fills her days obsessing about her husband’s dark, mysterious past. (Variant: it’s her step-daughter’s dark, mysterious past.) Wifey does some research and turns up a string of dead ex-wives dating back to antiquity. This manifests as a montage of either internet research or newspaper archives, depending on how old the re-run is.
Wifey finally turns up the answer, too horrible to bear, but doesn’t leave because why bother. She gets trapped in her giant, decadent house with her husband, who now knows she knows, so now she has to die like all the rest. The power goes out. DEUS EX MACHINA Wifey (now Widowey) summarizes the entire movie to her close friend and/or therapist, declaring that “everything will be alright now”.
Dramatic musical crescendo aaaaaaaaaaand roll credits!"

(Just in case anyone is bored and about to sit down to one of these movies, and could use those 2 hours of their life back!)