• Post Reply Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic
permaculture forums growies critters building homesteading energy monies kitchen purity ungarbage community wilderness fiber arts art permaculture artisans regional education skip experiences global resources cider press projects digital market permies.com pie forums private forums all forums
this forum made possible by our volunteer staff, including ...
master stewards:
  • Anne Miller
  • Pearl Sutton
  • r ranson
stewards:
  • Leigh Tate
  • paul wheaton
  • Nicole Alderman
master gardeners:
  • Carla Burke
  • Beau Davidson
  • Jay Angler
  • John F Dean
  • Nancy Reading
gardeners:
  • thomas rubino
  • Casie Becker
  • Mike Barkley

Grow your own caffeine

 
gardener
Posts: 1187
Location: Hudson Valley, New York
595
kids home care foraging trees books cooking food preservation bike fiber arts writing woodworking
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I need my coffee. This is not open to debate. I just need one mug within an hour of waking. I don’t need anymore and drinking the stuff after lunchtime is a 3am disaster as my monkey brain goes into overdrive.

This morning I did my first natural medicine BB and created a lovely thyme infusion. It was wonderfully refreshing and felt better for me than coffee on an empty stomach.

I’ve been on this journey for decades. I started out cooking from scratch, moving on to replacing processed foods with home made varieties. I’m now at the point where I’m experimenting with making cheese, smoking chillies for paprika and questioning every store bought product - can I grow it, can I make it?

Naturally, this morning, my mind wandered to the idea of growing my own caffeine. I know enough that growing beans anywhere other than specific areas in the tropics is a non starter. My research this morning suggested a couple of plants but the articles were written by people who clearly write articles for search engine optimisation and advertising revenue. which brings me here asking, have you grown your own caffeine? These are my parameters: I’m currently in NJ which is zone 7a but next year I’ll be moving to a 5b. However, I grow ginger and chillies outside from May to October and then overwinter them indoors. Three years from now I intend to have a semi tropical greenhouse.

I tried zero waste for a month - drove the rest of the family crazy and it was an interesting experiment, but totally unrealistic living in my suburban NJ hellscape. I then realised that reducing my waste by 80% was totally realistic and way better than just giving up. I’m close to 80% on the ‘make not buy’ food front, so maybe I should just accept that I’ll always buy beans.

Is this a road worth going down?

(Is this a gardening question or a natural medicine?)
 
Edward Norton
gardener
Posts: 1187
Location: Hudson Valley, New York
595
kids home care foraging trees books cooking food preservation bike fiber arts writing woodworking
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Meh . . . I searched for ‘caffeine’ here and nothing came back, then when I posted I was suggested this excellent thread . . . I spent a good twenty minutes of caffeine loaded brain time writing the above. I’m assuming this was a nasty case of pebkac and should be logged with reference code id10t as I can’t spell for toffie . . . This isn’t the first or last time, I’m the first person to reply to my own questions . . .
 
Edward Norton
gardener
Posts: 1187
Location: Hudson Valley, New York
595
kids home care foraging trees books cooking food preservation bike fiber arts writing woodworking
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
And here’s Anne Millar’s awesome answer from five years ago

My first thought was Chicory since it is a coffee substitute.  And yes it grows in Indiana, so you might be able to find some growing wild.

Purdue University list of Herb, Aromatic, Medicinal, Bioactive Crops

Here are some comments when I tried to search for what plants have caffeine:

Caffeine isn't a primary compound in plants. It doesn't serve a function that a plant naturally needs to live. Therefore you will be hard pressed to find many plants that contain caffeine in the wild. Almost all caffeine comes from either seeds or leaves. Only about 100 plants contain some form of caffeine, most being minimal. Probably people with expertise locally with edible plants could help you more, I just know caffeine isn't primarily found in a lot of North American plants.

The plant with the most caffeine in North America is the Ilex vomitoria and various varieties of said. It's the North American equivalent of Yerba Mate. Don't let the name bother you. The Indians made an extra strong brew for ceremonies to induce vomiting. In every day use they made a milder brew with steamed green leaves and lightly roasted leaves. Details are on my website.

Three common commercial varieties of Ilex vomitoria are Ilex nana and Ilex schiller (female and male dwarf versions for hedging) and Ilex vomitoria var. pendula (an ornamental which if fed nitrogen has more caffeine than any plant.)

According to Jim Pojar, in his book "Plants Of The Pacific Northwest Coast," The dried ground up seeds of Scotchbroom (classified invasive in Oregon, don't know about your part of the region) can be used as a coffee substitute.

After many years at this it has been my experience that nothing is a substitute for coffee. One plant, goosegrass, hmmm, Galium aparine, comes close in flavor but no caffeine. It is in the same family as coffee, oddly, and its roasted seeds are coffeesque. Add some Ilex vomitoria leaves and you might have a famine coffee substitute with caffeine. But it ain't coffee. Close, but no cigar.

Brooms, which a non-native, are usually listed as toxic.

We used to roast barley then grind it to mix with our coffee, it lowers the caffeine and greatly reduces the price of your coffee.

My parents roasted barley during the Great Depression as a coffee substitute.

Today we buy roasted barley at the grocery store. Mix it 50/50 with coffee grounds. It costs $1.29/pound.

We have been growing mint for years, which we harvest and dry. We use mint in our teas and many cooking recipes.

This year we planted chamomile and tea-trees. So we hope to produce them both in the future.

 
pollinator
Posts: 298
Location: Pembrokeshire, UK
193
dog forest garden gear fungi foraging trees building medical herbs woodworking homestead
  • Likes 5
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
My first thought was that an Ilex would probably be your best bet - it's cool to know that there is one!

Here in the UK we have a few successful tea (Camellia sinensis, English/Chinese/Japanese tea) plantations. There is one in Cornwall, which is a warmer microclimate, and at least one in Wales too. It may be possible for you to experiment with tea as a caffeine source.
 
master gardener
Posts: 2376
Location: Isle of Skye, Scotland
868
transportation dog forest garden foraging trees books food preservation woodworking wood heat rocket stoves ungarbage
  • Likes 5
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
There seems to be some disagreement as to whether cleavers does contain caffiene: https://www.wildwalks-southwest.co.uk/how-to-make-wild-cleaver-coffee/ Rachel Lambert says it does.
http://www.eattheweeds.com/galium-aparine-goosegrass-on-the-loose-2/ eat the weeds says it doesn't.
PFAF doesn't mention caffiene, so the jury's out at the moment.
 
Posts: 28
Location: Far Upper Left US
12
  • Likes 6
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Bedstraw, also known as cleavers (Latin name Galium aparine), seeds have caffeine in them and have a nice enough flavor.   They grow as a weed in most of the US and are extremely easy to cultivate -- just box them in as you would a mint because they will spread! Galium odoratum, sweet woodruff, is better known in gardening circles but I am unaware if its seeds contain caffeine.

Seeds are shaken off the plant once dried, then you can roast and grind them like coffee. Doesn't taste exactly like coffee, but gives a nice kick to herbal tea blends and tastes well enough on its own.
 
Jen Harrin
Posts: 28
Location: Far Upper Left US
12
  • Likes 6
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I'm not sure why there is conflicting info from those websites, as the components in Galium have been studied and there is caffeine in galium. I could only find one journal article that wasn't behind a paywall that listed caffeine as one of the active alkaloids in Galium aparine. Link
 
gardener
Posts: 1187
Location: the mountains of western nc
299
forest garden trees foraging chicken food preservation wood heat
  • Likes 3
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
i grow true tea (Camellia sinensis), but i suppose that would be a real challenge in zone 5. interested to learn that there are some annual sources!
 
gardener
Posts: 726
Location: Gulgong, NSW, Australia (Cold Zone 9B, Hot Zone 6) UTC +10
308
2
hugelkultur cat fungi chicken earthworks food preservation cooking bee building solar homestead
  • Likes 4
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Nancy Reading wrote:There seems to be some disagreement as to whether cleavers does contain caffiene: https://www.wildwalks-southwest.co.uk/how-to-make-wild-cleaver-coffee/ Rachel Lambert says it does.
http://www.eattheweeds.com/galium-aparine-goosegrass-on-the-loose-2/ eat the weeds says it doesn't.
PFAF doesn't mention caffiene, so the jury's out at the moment.



The Super Foods Journal says this about cleaver: Cleavers is a member of the coffee family. Its seeds can be roasted to make a coffee alternative which only contains a small amount of caffeine. However, it takes a lot of work to harvest enough cleavers seeds to brew coffee, so generally isn’t considered worth the effort .  https://superfoodjournal.com/cleavers-galium-aparine-benefits-uses/

Coffee bush is an under story so will grow very well in a large pot that you can have outside for most of the year and bring inside in the winter.  When we lived in PNG we were living at 1500 M (5000') and coffee was one of the crops grown.  It was about 20 Deg C for most of the year with it going down to about 16 - 18 Deg C in winter.  Also. my parents grew coffee from seed on the central coast of NSW Australia and harvested about a Kg per bush.  So, in short, you can grow your own outside for most of the year in NJ, just keep it in free draining high carbon composted soil.  In winter, keep it out of the frost and snow.  And unless you want deer as high as kites stop them from eating the berries.
Cheers
 
Edward Norton
gardener
Posts: 1187
Location: Hudson Valley, New York
595
kids home care foraging trees books cooking food preservation bike fiber arts writing woodworking
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

My first thought was that an Ilex would probably be your best bet - it's cool to know that there is one!  


Thanks Luke - I’m adding that to my list of plants to grow at some point in the future. I remember reading about Cornish Tea. Didn’t know they were growing it in Wales as well - good to know. Sounds like a smart plan in these interesting times . . . Not going to mention the B word.

There seems to be some disagreement as to whether cleavers does contain caffiene:


Very interesting Nancy! Wow, endless fun flinging goosegrass as a kid. Definitely something to forage in the UK. Haven’t seen it here and I’m guessing they probably wouldn’t want it as it’s very vigorous. I’ve seen something similar though. I’ll have to research. Cheers.

Bedstraw, also known as cleavers (Latin name Galium aparine), seeds have caffeine in them and have a nice enough flavor.   They grow as a weed in most of the US and are extremely easy to cultivate


Thanks Jen - bedstraw! No research needed. I’ve definitely seen it here but not in the huge hedgerow swamping swathes I’ve seen in the UK, which is why I thought it was a different plant. I’m thinking, if it’s called bedstraw, then there must be a reason, so back to researching . . . Already thinking about it holistically and potential textile BB’s

i grow true tea (Camellia sinensis), but i suppose that would be a real challenge in zone 5. interested to learn that there are some annual sources!

I’m sure if the Brits hadn’t colonised much of Asia, and there hadn’t been a tea party in Boston, then North Carolina would be covered in tea plantations! I think they make nice house plants so definitely an option or in a future greenhouse. Thanks Greg.

And unless you want deer as high as kites stop them from eating the berries.


Ha ha! Well there’s another weed that’s now legalised in NJ so there are probably already high deer . . .  And trash pandas, bears . . .
I think in the balance, growing coffee here would just be too challenging and too much work. I’ve read plenty of accounts of people trying. Going on your parents 1kg per bush, I’d need 12 bushes for me and the misses. Cheers Paul.
 
Posts: 91
9
  • Likes 7
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I put coffee up there with solar panels in that it doesn't make sense to produce your own; you buy them. I tried growing tobacco once; hardest plant I ever worked with because my climate is just no onboard with it. In my area (mountains, out west) the easy way to figure out the plants to grow is to look around at what's growing. Second best is to contact the state nursery and talk to them, but there's a lot of regional differences even inside of my ~1000 square mile zone that the nursery covers.

If you want to take a little more control of your coffee, consider buying green coffee beans, unroasted, and then roasting them yourself. The beans stay good for a long time, I think years in the right environment. I experimented with roasting them and it was a smokey nightmare, but that's probably me just not taking it seriously.

We have ephedra growing wild out here so for stimulants (and asthma treatment) we can use that, but nothjing beats a good cup of coffee.  
 
Posts: 69
Location: MD, USA. zone 7
24
  • Likes 5
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Cleaver seeds have caffeine? I will have to roast a batch and try it. Here I thought it was just one more "eh I suppose I can throw it in a salad" weed!
 
pollinator
Posts: 820
Location: South-central Wisconsin
314
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
The Yapon Holly (Ilex vomitoria) contains caffeine, and will grow as far as zone 7.
 
pollinator
Posts: 2339
Location: Denmark 57N
585
fungi foraging trees cooking food preservation
  • Likes 3
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Edward Norton wrote:
Thanks Jen - bedstraw! No research needed. I’ve definitely seen it here but not in the huge hedgerow swamping swathes I’ve seen in the UK, which is why I thought it was a different plant. I’m thinking, if it’s called bedstraw, then there must be a reason, so back to researching . . . Already thinking about it holistically and potential textile BB’s



Where I come from (Southern England) Bedstraw, (Ladies, marsh, heath etc etc) And goosegrass are different plants in the bedstraw (Rubiaceae family.  They are called bedstraw because ladies bedstraw and hedge bedstraw (G. Vernum and G mollugo respectively) were extensively used as strewing herbs, they have a sweet hay like smell.  Ladies bedstraw can be used as a dye plant as well. The book I have says that woodruff G. odoratum, ladies bedstraw and goosegrass can be used interchangeably in medicine.

Yes Edward, it's horribly invasive here as well, swamps everything and will kill a lot of the things it clambers over, the cat just came in covered in the seeds again, maybe that's a viable way of collecting them! I would certainly never plant it deliberately.

K Kaba wrote: Here I thought it was just one more "eh I suppose I can throw it in a salad" weed!

You can also use it to make cheese (rennet substitute) or to stop bleeding.
 
pollinator
Posts: 160
Location: Missouri Ozarks
30
  • Likes 5
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I have nine yaupon (ilex vomitoria) plants here in zone 6b, up to five years old, that are doing fine. They didn't look the greatest after it got to -10 last February but the damage was mostly superficial and all recovered, even the smaller ones. Yaupon makes a good caffeinated tea similar to yerba mate.
 
Posts: 1
Location: Mall of America, MN (Zone 4b)
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I am sort of working on a pipe dream holly breeding project. I have tried growing tea plants in pots up here, but they need SO much water they always die before the cold gets a chance to do them in.
I have a guayusa plant indoors in my bedroom, that has been alive and more or less happy for 5 years, but those grow in the amazon, and I don't believe modern science has recorded them flowering except for maybe once? They have been cultivated by humans for so long that they only seem to be propagated by cuttings anymore.
So then I got to yaupon holly. I am not as big of a fan of the flavor of its tea as the previous two plants, but it seems the most realistic. I only have to make it jump two and a half zones for my marginal 4b/5a.
At first, based on an old thread on here, I was going to try to cross yaupon with winterberry, since they are both Ilex hollies that are native to north america, and it made sense. So I have 4 female winterberry bushes in my yard now, of two different varieties with early & late flowering.
I then ordered a male yaupon holly (Schilling's/Stoke's dwarf) and put it in a pot, to be the pollinator. It died in my basement over winter. So I bought two more, that were larger, and those have now survived a couple years.
Unfortunately, I haven't gotten them to flower yet in spring, and I wonder if my laziness with leaving the grow lights in my basement on the same timing all winter is making them never really experience spring to want to flower.
So then during all this, I tried to do some research on scholarly articles about Ilex hollies. I was wondering about chromosome numbers and ploidy. These are the numbers I found for some hollies I was thinking of trying to cross to make the mythical zone 4 hardy caffeine plant:

9x4 vs. 10x4
I. vomitoria - 40
I. paraguariensis - 40
I. aquifolium - 40
I. verticillata - 36
I. Opaca - 36

So this makes it look like winterberry (I. verticillata) and yaupon (I. vomitoria) wouldn't be chromosomally compatible, as they have different chromosome numbers. But that might be fine, since the more common chromosome number for hollies I can order seems to be 40.
There are of course some shenanigans that could be done if I was a botany graduate student and not tech support, like using something like colchicine to cause chromosome doubling  in a bud on both yaupon and winterberry, and so then they would go from 9x4 and 10x4 to 9x8 and 10x8, and if there was fruit set, it would have two full sets of genes from each parent, being 10x4+9x4 and going from tetraploid to octoploid (I think?). But I don't have the access to a lab or the know-how to try that.
So then, giving up on the winterberry for now as the female parent, and resigning myself to some lovely stunted looking bushes that will never set flowers without a male of their species, I have moved on to trying common holly (I. aquifolium), or more specifically, a cross-bred offspring of it the Meserve holly, or blue holly. These hollies were bred specifically to survive harsh winters, at least to zone 5.
I only planted some blue hollies this spring, so I have yet to see if they will survive winter in my zone 4/5 marginal area (would be zone 4 geographically, but the Minneapolis heat bubble keeps it warm). One of the blue hollies I planted has already flowered after being planted, so I at least don't need to worry about getting female flowers to produce berries.
Unfortunately, my caffeinated holly breeding project has not yet borne fruit, literally or figuratively. My hope is that my yaupon plants will flower this spring, and I can then do some manual pollination of the blue holly's flowers, and maybe also the winterberry just in case they're not as incompatible as it seems, since holly chromosomes aren't exactly a terribly popular area of research from what I've found.

Otherwise, I am also considering just ordering as many yaupon holly seeds as I can get my hands on, and planting them all over my yard, and seeing if anything survives winter. Because the breeding project will require any progeny that I get between yaupon & blue holly to survive winter, and then I'll have to either find a lab to send them to to be tested for caffeine, or do a caffeine assay on them myself (some google results imply it's an easy college science experiment, so maybe?). And then taking the winter-surviving, caffeine-bearing offspirng, if any exist, and seeing if any of them taste any good.

So if you wanted to have a go at doing something similar, maybe some of my planning will help.
 
Posts: 9
Location: Switzerland
fungi trees woodworking
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
are there multible section in ilex?

as there are in other genera like: prunus, quercus, fraxinus, salix, and maple. for example.
this will affect crossability



i came across this List of Ilex hybrides
http://www.hollysocam.org/untitled/memberindex/PDF/Beyond-Galle.pdf

unfortunately there is no hybrid of ilex vomitoria listed

Beyond Galle
A compilation of cultivated Ilex
Not included in Fred Galle’s
“Hollies: The Genus Ilex”
(Timber Press, 1997)
Compiled by Jim Resch
Last updated May 2021




probabyl its best to mail the autor directli.
mabey ask someone who is a profesional ilex breeder



Eureka Gold TM 'HOGY' ilex vomitoria hardy to Zone 6

From the website of Greenleaf Nursery: "Eureka Gold(TM) is a compact, upright, and outwardly spreading Dwarf
Yaupon Holly. This dense and bushy variety has yellow green foliage. It grows 4 to 5 feet tall. " Zone 6.
(http://www.greenleafnursery.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/plants.plantDetail/plant_id/5205/index.htm ) Fruits 4-
6 mm in diameter, Red Group 42B.

hope this helps




also i was googeling "pollination of ilex vomitoria"

https://www.curenursery.com/plants/ilex-vomitoria-taylors-rudolph/#:~:text=Being%20a%20female%2C%20its%20pollination,Ilex%20opaca%20(American%20Holly).

Ilex vomitoria 'Taylor's Rudolph'
'Taylor's Dwarf' Yaupon, 'Taylor's Rudolph' Yaupon

Being a female, its pollination requirements can be met by either a male cultivar (such as ‘Schilling’s Dwarf’) or by a nearby male Ilex decidua (Possumhaw) or Ilex opaca (American Holly).




https://www.walterreeves.com/lawn-care/can-yaupon-holly-pollinate-a-sparkleberry-holly/
A: It’s not likely that yaupon holly, Ilex vomitoria, would work. It’s not very close, species-wise, to sparkleberry, Ilex ‘Sparkleberry’.

’Apollo’ is a good male holly for a female Sparkleberry(aka winterberry) but it is always possible some random holly in the neighborhood might contribute enough pollen to your Sparkleberry to make it bear the bright red berries for which it’s famous.





best regardes Patrick Barmet
 
master steward
Posts: 9251
Location: USDA Zone 8a
2782
dog hunting food preservation cooking bee greening the desert
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I wonder has anyone here actually tried making coffee from cleaver or yaupon?

Before I would go out and plant a bunch I would want to know what it tastes like.

I know for a fact the chicory tastes good and is relatively easy to roast the root then dry the root and grind it because I mix it with coffee to make coffee go farther.

I have cleaves by the hundreds but have really no desire to try them as coffee.  Picking them does not appeal to me as I would rather smoother them with cardboard.

I have been around yaupon all my life.  They have small leaves that a person would need to pick a lot of to make much coffee.

It is a nice topic to talk about.
 
Patrick Barmet
Posts: 9
Location: Switzerland
fungi trees woodworking
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Nordern ilex containing coffein ->  yaupon Holly and other Holly



Enzyklopädie der psychoaktiven Pflanzen
Buch von Christian Rätsch


Ilex cassine                                                                                                USDA (6) 7-11
Ilex ambigua  syn. Ilex caroliniana                                                        USDA 7


Ilex glabra Ilex glabra - Kahle Winterbeere - Tintenbeere - Stechpalme USDA 3-7
Ilex perado


Ilex vomitoria
Ilex vomitoria "Eureka Gold(TM)                                                         mabey     USDA 6

Ilex vomitoria Nana - Yaupon-Stechpalme                                                 USDA 7
Ilex verticillata Afterglow Amerikanische Winterbeere Afterglow       USDA 3-7

Ilex yunnanenesis                                                                                 USDA 5-9
Ilex yunnanenesis var. ecliata
Ilex ×altaclerensis 'Camelliifolia'                                                                 USDA 7b (-14,9 bis -12,3 °C)

 
Patrick Barmet
Posts: 9
Location: Switzerland
fungi trees woodworking
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Anne Miller wrote:I wonder has anyone here actually tried making coffee from cleaver or yaupon?

Before I would go out and plant a bunch I would want to know what it tastes like.

I know for a fact the chicory tastes good and is relatively easy to roast the root then dry the root and grind it because I mix it with coffee to make coffee go farther.

I have cleaves by the hundreds but have really no desire to try them as coffee.  Picking them does not appeal to me as I would rather smoother them with cardboard.

I have been around yaupon all my life.  They have small leaves that a person would need to pick a lot of to make much coffee.

It is a nice topic to talk about.




hi Anne Miller you inspiered me. so i bought some yaupon tee from the "yaupon brothers"

mi favourite is the lavender coconut

fire roasted and american green have a week taste. just my opinion...

but you could mix them cicory ore roasted dandelion root tea and get someting nice tasting high in coffein




if someone is looking for yupon seeds


https://store.experimentalfarmnetwork.org/search?q=yupon

Anne Miller would you also have seeds around we could do a litle plant exchange maybe

best regards Patrick Barmet
Barmetbaumpflege.ch
IMG_20220510_160100.jpg
[Thumbnail for IMG_20220510_160100.jpg]
 
First, you drop a couch from the plane, THEN you surf it. Here, take this tiny ad with you:
full time farm crew job w/ housing
https://permies.com/t/178213/jobs-offered/experiences/full-time-farm-crew-member
reply
    Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic