Would you rather have the perfect property for a wind turbine or the perfect property for hydroelectric?
"When the whole world is running towards a cliff, he who is running in the opposite direction appears to have lost his mind." C.S. Lewis
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I have always loved water. So I'll take the hydroelectric.
"When the whole world is running towards a cliff, he who is running in the opposite direction appears to have lost his mind." C.S. Lewis
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They wanted to put highlines across my front yard so I want nothing to do with wind turbines, not even for my own use.
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I would vote for hydro mostly for function stacking:
* potable water source
* plant irrigation
* greenhouse temperature moderation
* swimming pool/pond
* fish pond
* animal hydration
* geothermal heatpump
I also think that water has a more moderating effect on the climate of the homestead, vs windchill, so more zone pushing.
Could maybe tryout some edge with a chinampas?
Windy areas might have better airflow and less fungal problems
Iterations are fine, we don't have to be perfect
My 2nd Location:Florida HardinessZone:10 AHS:10 GDD:8500 Rainfall:2in/mth winter, 8in/mth summer, Soil:Sand pH8 Flat
We once had a wind turbine but I wouldn't be inclined to have one again.
Problem no.1: getting the parts to our holding - under a narrow, low railway bridge then up a twisty farm track.
Problem no.2: the manufacturer went out of business when we'd had it for less than a year.
Problem no.3: the inverter we needed turned out to be a "trial" one which we weren't told until it failed and had to go back to the manufacturer (not the same one as the turbine) in mainland Europe from the UK for repair.
Problem no.4: we had to be alert for high winds and turn it off as this particular model would apply brakes on the tips of the turbine blades to slow it down. The only way to reset them was to climb up the tower and use a long stick!
Did it pay for itself in the time we lived there? Yes, and it was lovely on those days with a good breeze (most of the time) when we could afford to be profligate with our use of electricity.
Does the current owner of the property still have the same sort of problems we did? Yes.
Now, if we'd had a stream with good height and volume, micro-hydro would have been my choice. Our stream had the height but not the volume, the spring drying up in dry summers.
I'm going to be an outlier here, wind. IF! I can do what I want.
My property has excellent constant wind, BUT I don't want a high tower turbine, due to the maintenance etc, I like savonius vertical axis wind turbines, easy to make out of scavenged stuff and can work on the ground. I have no running water, but hope to move ponded water with the wind turbines.
If I could have hydro, I'd be doing similar small scale stuff with it, so that would be ok, but I like how cheap I can do wind things. And the picture below shows how they can take advantage of things like windy corners or the space between building where the wind is always high.
Pearl Sutton wrote:If I could have hydro, I'd be doing similar small scale stuff with it, so that would be ok, but I like how cheap I can do wind things. And the picture below shows how they can take advantage of things like windy corners or the space between building where the wind is always high.
If you get lots of it, that's great. They are doing experimentation about using various spirals including Fibonacci spirals, and with leaving a gap at the hinge so that one side dumps the wind into the other side in a form of "double dipping" and are showing good improvement in output without a lot of expense and trouble.
I also saw some cool proposals for taking advantage of wind created by cities. Nothing bugged me more about big city living as the chill winter winds focused and increased by tall buildings. Putting that to good use, and effectively reducing it at ground level in the process seems like "stacking functions"!
Hydro.
I imagine "old", somewhat weathered big wooden wheel with paddles steadily turning water....Kind of rustic, little unkept looking, but in perfect working condition
Turbines/wind mills/anything-wind driven squeaks, whistles, almost never looks attractive, scares birds, interferes with anything that needs to fly.
Are picture allowed???
Country oriented nerd with primary interests in alternate energy in particular solar. Dabble in gardening, trees, cob, soil building and a host of others.
I would love hydro, but don't have the water for it. I do like to find out how to capture and use any kind of energies. Although the guy down the way has a windmill way up high and just the sound of it scares me. I would never want anything up that high.
talking to anyone who will listen about permaculture in northcentral nevada.
Hydro. It is more dependable. You can have power 24/7/365. You only need enough storage to cover short term surges in need. Whereas wind usually isn't blowing reliably 24/7. And if it is I don't want to live there. I do not like wind on my farm. I plant trees to block it and when working outside I choose to do it in the woods instead of fields so I can stay out of the wind. The last thing I want is more wind or wind 24/7.
For starters, I'm pretty sure the laws here don't allow me to take advantage of the energy produced by moving water, so if that is correct, small scale hydro isn't possible.
That said, from a more romantic type of concept, I'd enjoy having moving water on my property for some of the reasons noted above, but also for the diversity it brings (when allowed).
Our acreage is fairly windy (too wide open for now), and the wind gets tiring. It also makes it difficult to converse when the wind is whistling by your ears...of course a babbling brook can cause similar issues.
Putting on my engineering hat, I'd rather have a sunny location with regular wind and moving water - assuming unlimited funds, I could take advantage of multiple forms of natural energy and make for more reliable electrical generation on location. That side of me would also want to work on a lifecycle analysis of the system to be able to compare costs of generation over the years.
Now I get thinking about whether I avoid electricity, but use a windmill for pumping water from the cistern or running a small grain mill to make our own flour when we actually get to a point of growing some of our own small grains.
Working toward a permaculture-strong retirement near sunny Sperling.
hydro 100% - but not because of the energy (that's nice, but I would probably diversify if possible).
Because if there is enough water to have a hydropower year 'round, there's enough water to take care of all the other farm needs. I could even irrigate!
Living somewhere that gets zero rainfall from the end of April through the middle of October, I've learned the value of water.
r ranson wrote:hydro 100% - but not because of the energy (that's nice, but I would probably diversify if possible).
Because if there is enough water to have a hydropower year 'round, there's enough water to take care of all the other farm needs. I could even irrigate!
Living somewhere that gets zero rainfall from the end of April through the middle of October, I've learned the value of water.
That isn't necessarily true. You might be able to tap the water for power but not have the water rights to have any of it.
Country oriented nerd with primary interests in alternate energy in particular solar. Dabble in gardening, trees, cob, soil building and a host of others.
Hydro all the way. I've always been in love with the idea of being near some moving water source and maybe rigging up an old world saw mill or other such wonderful nonsense. I think the science people also found that humans get a great mental boost when being near water! Plus, the sound of wind turbines, in my experience, has been a pain in the butt. I'd rather listen to a river any day
Hydro all the way baby! all those glorious negative ions in the air all day long! As long as my house is uphill from said watersource, because flooding is nothing to play with or tempt.
I do Celtic, fantasy, folk and shanty singing at Renaissance faires, fantasy festivals, pirate campouts, and other events in OR and WA, USA.
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With Nature doing Her thing, perfect wind turbine property sounds like perfect fire sector property, while perfect hydroelectric property sounds like the perfect flooding property.
USDA Hardiness Zone 9a
Subtropical/temperate, Average annual rainfall of 61.94", hot and humid!
Pearl Sutton wrote:I'm going to be an outlier here, wind. IF! I can do what I want.
My property has excellent constant wind, BUT I don't want a high tower turbine, due to the maintenance etc, I like savonius vertical axis wind turbines, easy to make out of scavenged stuff and can work on the ground. I have no running water, but hope to move ponded water with the wind turbines.
If I could have hydro, I'd be doing similar small scale stuff with it, so that would be ok, but I like how cheap I can do wind things. And the picture below shows how they can take advantage of things like windy corners or the space between building where the wind is always high.
small savonius vertical axis turbines
I'd love to know about these, do you have more details please?
Change is the only constant in life, without change nothing could grow: https://growingwilder.online
Rachael Cart wrote:\
I'd love to know about these, do you have more details please?
Vertical axis wind turbines are very cool, very old tech
A NEAT variant on them The Windmills of Nashtifan A good thread with video: https://permies.com/t/25897/wind-turbine Vertical axis wind turbines of all sorts are all over the net and youtube. Put "savonius rotor wind turbine" in a search engine and you'll get many thousands of hits. Or "Vertical axis wind turbine" or "VAT" tons of neat info out there. The Savonious types are easy to make low budget and low tech.
If you have more questions, start a new thread in the Low Tech forum and we'll help you :D
We live in hydro country. There are two dams within a couple miles of us. We have the second or third cheapest electric in the several states (compare our 4.7/kilowatt price to Europe's 47 cent/kilowatt price).
If I were shopping for new dirt, my dream would be to find a year round stream of some significance and to power my house and shop via turbines tapping it's potential.
I'm even more enthused about hydro because I could build a pond , like the hundreds of orchards and row crop farms around here do, to supply pumps with water for either irrigation or fire control.
A friend's property has a strong stream with a good drop. Since public agents frown on it being taped for power, we talked about digging a large trench near it. The water in the gravel soil could be allowed to enter a large, concrete pipe, then drop back into the stream, but not before passing through a vertical turbine.
I'd rather have the perfect hydroelectric property.
I've lived and traveled in very windy places - oofdey.
I'd rather have the water flow and all the possibilities that come with it versus the wind and needing to mitigate its drying-out effects.
Aspirations: She seeks wool and flax, considers a field and buys it, girds herself with strength, opens her mouth with wisdom, and does him good all the days of her life. (pieces of Proverbs 31, NKJV)
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