Win a copy of Coppice Agroforestry this week in the Woodland forum!
  • Post Reply Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic
permaculture forums growies critters building homesteading energy monies kitchen purity ungarbage community wilderness fiber arts art permaculture artisans regional education skip experiences global resources cider press projects digital market permies.com pie forums private forums all forums
this forum made possible by our volunteer staff, including ...
master stewards:
  • Anne Miller
  • paul wheaton
  • Leigh Tate
stewards:
  • Pearl Sutton
  • r ranson
  • Mike Haasl
master gardeners:
  • Carla Burke
  • John F Dean
  • Beau Davidson
  • Nancy Reading
  • Jay Angler
gardeners:
  • L. Johnson
  • thomas rubino
  • S Rogers

Please think about doing Badge Bits, commenting on them, liking them, growing and nurturing

 
gardener
Posts: 1495
Location: Hudson Valley, New York
801
trees bike woodworking
  • Likes 24
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I want to see more people doing Badge Bits . . .

From 2003 onwards, there was a massive growth in photography as digital cameras became more capable and affordable. The site I spent much of my time on had a forum, much like this one and a gallery. The gallery was a place you submitted your work and people commented on it. You could only post one picture a day. There was a virtuous circle. I spent time looking at other peoples images and mostly lurking. Then I started to develop a desire to post images. I liked the look of macro photography, especially the outdoor variety. I started a newbie post in the forum, bought my first macro lens and tripod and started posting pictures of tiny fungi, nuts, flowers, butterflies. My images initially were pretty rough but as time went by, I became a better photographer and my knowledge of macro photography improved. I started helping others out in the forum and eventually became one of the sites macro experts. I wasn’t ‘the best’ macro photographer and there were some individuals who work was simply breath taking. That didn’t matter though. It just inspired me and I could appreciate the art for it’s beauty and admire the artist for their dedication and vision.

So what does this have to do with PEP, PEA and Badge Bits.

Well, I see them as the gallery, it’s where you take the knowledge you find and discuss in the forum and put it into practice. Like photography, there are many specialities and you can become an expert, or maybe a generalist, or both. Some are linked. I took my macro skills and became an generic outdoor photographer and then worked on my Black and White skills becoming an expert in that area. And there’s a huge overlap. This week, I’ve built a nest box, using dimensional lumber, materials from PEA metal work to get a Badge Bit in Animal Care. I used tools I had sharpened doing Tool Care

Photography can be expensive, so can working on Badge Bits. Both can have a return on investment, not just financial, but mentally, a growth of mindset, acquisistion of skills, personal growth, a sense of purpose and well being.

I would love to see PEP, PEA and Badge Bits to grow in this site, to be the gallery of work, the place where skills are demonstrated. This is my mindset. I am investing time and money, I am learning, developing building life skills.

Here’s what I would like you to do.

If you’ve decided BB’s aren’t for you, you don’t want to SKIP and inherit property, you don’t have the time, you think they cost money, you’re scared of failure, then have a rethink. I have failed many. I learn from failure. Yes, there’s that initial rush of emotions when something you’ve planned for weeks, spent money on and then failed because you didn’t fully read and understand the requirements. But, you then walk away, reflect, learn and return.

There are ones you can already do with what you already know and wont cost money - anyone can wash dishes without a dishwasher. Even if you still don’t want to then think about commenting on what others are doing, add encouragement. When you see a PEP post in the forum, treat it like any other post, dive in and see, read, like, comment. Some of the early Badge Bits have great discussions, not so the later ones. They just sit there sad and empty!

If there’s an area you feel you are already an expert, then maybe you can help. Even if it’s a badge that you do day in and day out, post anyway and then it’s an example for others especially if you’re really good at it and can share some tips.

Why am I posting this? I dived into PEP a couple of months ago. This is my apprenticeship, it’s the practical to accompany my PDC. There is a virtuous circle but it could be so much better. Here are some reasons for my post:

1. Badge Bits posts are undervalued.
2. I’m a learner who learns by example and a teacher who teaches by example. The more people doing this, the more I learn and the more I can teach.
3. Badge Bits are more rewarding when you do them with other people which might sound strange as you’re not in the same space. When I worked on my first 60 badges there were two other people also working on their 60. I felt a mutual support and even though they probably didn’t know it, their work was an encouragement to me. The more people doing BB’s the more collective support there is.
4. I can learn more from a BB that someone else has already done, there’s a permie example not a none permie tutorial - although I must say, some of the examples are fantastic especially in Textiles.
5. I can’t save the planet. The people on the top of the Wheaton Scale can’t save the planet. What they’re doing is influencing others, spreading the word and ideas. Paul’s carbon footprint is now in the negative mega / giga tonnes just by building this awesome site. The ideas here spread and cascade. I want to help that cascade. It would be awesome if I can nudge one person to set up a elaborate clothes line and use it - I was already line drying clothes inside and out but I had crappy plastic and wire airers and just a piece of string across the lawn. Now I have 40ft of proper line inside and out. I can stand by the basement door on the dry patio and not venture onto the wet lawn to hang my clothes. I genuinely get a warm feeling inside, every time I hang laundry
6. I’d love to see some iron badge projects
7. I have an over active monkey brain. I suffer from instant gratification and the dopamine hits from likes and apples. I want more people to level up, be able to approve BB’s so I don’t have to wait for my fix! (Huge gratitude to the people in the background, especially Mike Haasl). I get sad when I spend half a day building a bird box and my post doesn’t get a single like. (I also love that permies gives me permission to be honest without backlash).
8. I really want you to experience the buzz of doing BB, not just the likes and apples, the knowledge of a job well done, the real reward, ignore my previous reason!
9. I want more developer time on this site in the PEP area. I want to see BB count on peoples profiles, along side posts, likes and apples. I want more milestones beyond BB60 to encourage the people who got to 60 to carry on!

If you’re still undecided, then check out these great threads that have helped me:

All about PEP, SKIP, Badges, BB’s and More! - the master wiki page

PEA: The Core Philosophy and Badges

What would get you doing PEP / SKIP BB

PEP BB Google Sheet Tracker

PEP Trello Tracker - this is what I use and it’s awesome

Why you need to get a move on:

Hey all you PEP people - you might want to get a move on

And there’s a book so lets make sure that PEP and PEA is a buzzing area before it’s launch!

SKIP: A book connecting industrious people with land owners

So please head over here and pick a really easy Badge Bit - it will give you a bigger buzz than anything Black Friday has to offer.
 
pollinator
Posts: 515
Location: SE Indiana
291
dog fish trees writing
  • Likes 9
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I've thought about it but just not interested in spending that much time. Maybe this winter when I don't have much else to do I'll look into in more. As far as participating in the forum goes I like reading about a lot of things and occasionally comment but I'm mostly interested in plant breeding, seed saving and other garden related stuff. I'm sure if I dug into old files I could come up with enough pictures and stuff to get all kinds of bits in those areas, I guess I'm just too lazy to mess with it.

Other stuff too, like wood working and metal working, I make cool things out of silver. Everyday stuff like fixing a broken tool, a leaking faucet or a leaking roof, cutting firewood, building fences, there is always something to do.  I just can't justify the time investment in documenting it.

 
pollinator
Posts: 935
Location: Boston, Massachusetts
355
4
urban books building solar rocket stoves ungarbage
  • Likes 13
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I accept your challenge. Sort of. I am at a place in life where I have SK's and have IP'ed... many badges I have already done years ago, without documentation, which is a stumbling block for me as well.
Although, documenting my projects with photos has gotten better since the advent of PEP. It is a habit that is still forming, and I forego pictures in favor of progress, especially if my phone is not on my person. Often I have only an "after" photo, but that is at least something. (If I can find it later, and know what it is about...)
I may "skip ahead" and do some of the more advanced badge bits, that I'm skilled at to have more examples for up-and-comers... that might be more my speed. Who knows, there's probably some of the lesser BB's along the way...
 
pollinator
Posts: 2339
Location: Denmark 57N
589
fungi foraging trees cooking food preservation
  • Likes 8
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I've done a couple but it doesn't interest me as there's no reward, there are very few badges that can be completed where I am as it's not designed for my climate, laws or customs and I refuse to buy useless junk just to get a digital pat on the back.
I don't have a smart phone I only have a proper camera so I normally do not have any means of taking a photo on me when I do things as I'm not about to risk an expensive piece of equipment out in a muddy field.
 
pollinator
Posts: 169
Location: Southeast corner of Wyoming
46
2
urban fiber arts
  • Likes 5
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I would love working on more of the PEA gardening badge bits but I keep running up against the no plastic constraint. My setup is all based on the use of plastic  and has been for a few years.   That means my PEA gardening work gets complicated.  I have to find/buy something that will work with the no plastic requirement, find a way to fit these odd shaped/sizes containers among my carefully planned out plastic pots that fit under my LED lights in winter.   I did get a few things this spring but decided it was more hassle then I wanted at that time.    The badge bits have of course made me think about things I can do such as a poly culture pot or an inside herb garden but they will be in pots I already own so won't count.

I did get one badge bit and may work on a few others this winter but it will be very hit or miss not solid plans at this time.
 
pioneer
Posts: 257
Location: SF Bay, California Zone 10b
123
2
forest garden fungi foraging cooking
  • Likes 8
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I like seeing the passion! I've been doing BBs for a good while now, but I've found it's important to pace myself. I got really into it at first and kept trying to come up with ways to accomplish them, but I did start getting burned out on it. I know I could knock out a lot of Nest or Food Prep BBs, but it starts to get boring, plus I'm not learning much by doing it.

The badges that involved things I have zero experience with (which is most of them) have been a lot of fun to dig into. But it also takes me a while to do them, since I have to learn it all from scratch.

Attending the SKIP event at Wheaton Labs was awesome, because I had a dedicated two weeks plus all the infrastructure/equipment I could imagine to do it with. Mike and Fred were super knowledgeable and good at teaching, plus everyone else there was helpful. Basically everytime I started working on something someone walking by would stop me and suggest a better method/tool to work with.

I do believe that once there has been a successful land transfer via SKIP, it will legitimize the program and make it easier to get folks interested.
 
pollinator
Posts: 2503
Location: Meppel (Drenthe, the Netherlands)
780
dog forest garden urban cooking bike fiber arts
  • Likes 7
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Skandi Rogers wrote:... there's no reward, there are very few badges that can be completed where I am as it's not designed for my climate, laws or customs ...


Skandi, I thought so too when PEP started and I read about what to do to get Badges ... But then I first started by doing things I already did, with the only difference I photographed every step of it, instead of only the end result. Many of these things I did were ordinary household ('nest') activities, done indoors. F.e. washing the dishes and then pouring the water in the garden, it was such fun to photograph all of that!
Yes, there are BBs I will never have, because of the climate, laws, customs of the country I live in (the Netherlands). But there are still many I can do, which are useful to me. And then I'll be rewarded with a nice new icon here below my signature!
 
steward
Posts: 13376
Location: Northern WI (zone 4)
3839
4
hunting trees books food preservation solar woodworking
  • Likes 14
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Thanks for the great post Edward!  

There is another reason to do PEP even if you're settled on a property and have skills.  We're continuing to plan PEP events at Wheaton Labs.  The planned format is to have one super facilitator (maybe like me) along with several assistants.  Those folks get to come to the event for free.  Half their time they would be expected to guide people doing BBs.  The other half of their time is their own.  They can work on BBs along with other participants or go off and do more advanced things that they can't do at home.  As long as their advanced activities don't tie up a tool or workspace that is needed by the paying participants.

So if you establish your capabilities enough you may be able to get a free event at WL where you can work and play.
 
pollinator
Posts: 148
Location: Archdiocese of Galveston-Houston (Texas Gulf Coast, USA)
93
books chicken fiber arts sheep homestead ungarbage
  • Likes 8
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
That is great to know, Mike! The SKIP event has been a little tempting, but too expensive for me, so I now have becoming a SKIP assistant as a goal to further motivate my skipping.
 
Inge Leonora-den Ouden
pollinator
Posts: 2503
Location: Meppel (Drenthe, the Netherlands)
780
dog forest garden urban cooking bike fiber arts
  • Likes 5
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Mike Haasl wrote:Thanks for the great post Edward!  

There is another reason to do PEP even if you're settled on a property and have skills.  We're continuing to plan PEP events at Wheaton Labs.  The planned format is to have one super facilitator (maybe like me) along with several assistants.  Those folks get to come to the event for free.  Half their time they would be expected to guide people doing BBs.  The other half of their time is their own.  They can work on BBs along with other participants or go off and do more advanced things that they can't do at home.  As long as their advanced activities don't tie up a tool or workspace that is needed by the paying participants.

So if you establish your capabilities enough you may be able to get a free event at WL where you can work and play.


Now I feel sad I live so very far from Missoula ...
 
Edward Norton
gardener
Posts: 1495
Location: Hudson Valley, New York
801
trees bike woodworking
  • Likes 4
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Mike Haasl wrote:Thanks for the great post Edward!  

There is another reason to do PEP even if you're settled on a property and have skills.  We're continuing to plan PEP events at Wheaton Labs.  The planned format is to have one super facilitator (maybe like me) along with several assistants.  Those folks get to come to the event for free.  Half their time they would be expected to guide people doing BBs.  The other half of their time is their own.  They can work on BBs along with other participants or go off and do more advanced things that they can't do at home.  As long as their advanced activities don't tie up a tool or workspace that is needed by the paying participants.

So if you establish your capabilities enough you may be able to get a free event at WL where you can work and play.



I read that soon after you posted and it made my head spin. Being able to help others with BB’s would be amazing. I’d love to get to a level where I could be considered for an assistant role. I really wanted to join the SKIP event in 2022 but it’s really bad timing for me, just when I’ll be handing over the keys and moving home. I’m sure I’ll figure a way to make it to Wheaton Labs at some point.
 
pollinator
Posts: 243
Location: Michigan - Zone 6a
69
2
hugelkultur trees urban books ungarbage
  • Likes 5
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I've done a few (and plan to do more), but like others said, a lot of them are out of reach either due to regional restrictions (such as foraging plants that don't grow here), space/land restrictions (no room for larger projects such as a 'proper' hugel or most of the natural building bits), and the lack of plastic (making it harder to reuse and/or find free materials).

Also time, which is always hard to find
 
gardener
Posts: 1633
Location: Japan, roughly zone 9b - wet and warm climate
736
kids home care trees cooking bike woodworking ungarbage
  • Likes 8
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I really think the PEA program needs more attention from us. It's the more accessible to the average person of the two programs.

I would have put more energy into those badges than the PEP ones had they been finished or visible when I started.

I understand that PEP is designed completely around Wheaton Labs, and that is both its greatest asset and weak point. It is purposeful, useful, and specific, exclusively so. Nevertheless I do the PEP BBs because I like to provide examples for other people and especially when the BB covers something I was already planning on doing but procrastinating (I have about 100 projects or tasks on the backburner at any given time.)

PEA could really fill the gap.

To OP: I'm working on them Edward... it's just taking me a long time... I'm hoping to have all of the Tool Care - tool handle jobs done by the end of January. That's 5 wedge handles and 4 pin handles. Assuming my castanopsis log provides enough material. I also want to use that same log to make a wooden spokeshave to make the handle making easier... which might delay the completion of the handle BBs. There's no badge for making a spokeshave though, unless I post it to oddball. It's hard to keep pace with you good sir, your work is great and inspiring.

 
Skandi Rogers
pollinator
Posts: 2339
Location: Denmark 57N
589
fungi foraging trees cooking food preservation
  • Likes 4
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Inge Leonora-den Ouden wrote:
Skandi, I thought so too when PEP started and I read about what to do to get Badges ... But then I first started by doing things I already did, with the only difference I photographed every step of it, instead of only the end result. Many of these things I did were ordinary household ('nest') activities, done indoors. F.e. washing the dishes and then pouring the water in the garden, it was such fun to photograph all of that!



Just looking at the first 1st badge you have, I cannot get nest as I do not own any white's nor do we have an area rug (or any kind of carpet) I'm not buying either of those to get an electronic tag that does nothing for me.  Most of the badges are like this since they have no choice in the start there's no way to avoid impossible tasks. there are maybe 3 I could do and even they involve buying junk I have no need for.
 
master steward
Posts: 10368
Location: USDA Zone 8a
3111
dog hunting food preservation cooking bee greening the desert
  • Likes 7
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Skandi Rogers wrote:I've done a couple but it doesn't interest me as there's no reward, there are very few badges that can be completed where I am as it's not designed for my climate, laws or customs and I refuse to buy useless junk just to get a digital pat on the back.
I don't have a smart phone I only have a proper camera so I normally do not have any means of taking a photo on me when I do things as I'm not about to risk an expensive piece of equipment out in a muddy field.



Skandi, I believe from reading your posts on the forum that you like to cook.  

I really enjoy reading the pep food prep preservation threads.

I believe you have the skills to do most of those.  And I would love to see some of the things that you cook.

Similar to Skandi, I don't use my phone to take pictures and my other camera quit working so I haven't attempted to earn any badges.

I feel the program is of value to me because I spend several hours reading the threads in the PEP Program.  

Doesn't anyone else like to see what the other forum members are doing?

My favorite PEP threads are the ones that involve cooking, canning, cleaning, knitting, sewing, making natural remedies, fermenting, and well I could go on and on as I like all of them.

A lot of folks spend hours and hours over at Pinterest, which I like to do too, though the difference is that I feel like I know the folks here on the forum and over at Pinterest I don't know anyone.

Thanks to Edward, I have really enjoyed this thread.
 
Mike Haasl
steward
Posts: 13376
Location: Northern WI (zone 4)
3839
4
hunting trees books food preservation solar woodworking
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I'd also like to mention that even if you don't have an area rug or white clothes, there's a chance that you have a friend who has one that you could clean.  

I'm not trying to make everyone do PEP, I know it's not a good fit for all.  I'm just trying to show how there are ways to do these tasks even if you personally don't have an instapot, a refrigerator or four windows in need of cleaning.
 
Skandi Rogers
pollinator
Posts: 2339
Location: Denmark 57N
589
fungi foraging trees cooking food preservation
  • Likes 7
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Mike Haasl wrote:I'd also like to mention that even if you don't have an area rug or white clothes, there's a chance that you have a friend who has one that you could clean.  

I'm not trying to make everyone do PEP, I know it's not a good fit for all.  I'm just trying to show how there are ways to do these tasks even if you personally don't have an instapot, a refrigerator or four windows in need of cleaning.



This made me laugh can YOU imagine asking a friend if you could make their whites whiter? How insulting do you want to be? The same with cleaning a rug (though I still don't know anyone who has one of those)

Most of the things I don't have most people here who would be in my friend group don't have. (I don't know anyone with a pressure cooker of any type, or a rice cooker or even a pressure washer) I have offered my land for people to do small pieces of BB's like tree felling and I can even post small bits of green wood if anyone in the country needs them.

@Anne I do indeed like to cook and you can see some of my cooking and preserving attempts around on the forums, I preserve an awful lot and I also make preserves for sale, but none of them can be a BB as I use aluminium pans which are excluded. If I am ever lucky enough to find second hand stainless pans I could take photos, but in the 10 years I have been looking I have not seen one yet.

Of course one of the reasons I am not prepared to buy things to complete badges is I already own my own place and don't need to prove anything to anyone.
 
pollinator
Posts: 458
350
2
forest garden fungi trees foraging urban books
  • Likes 4
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
As requested by the OP, I’ve re-thunk!

I’m loving everyone’s comments, as I can see myself in each of them.  And I always love that Skandi never pulls punches!  

The biggest danger for me with PEP is authenticity.  I constantly find myself needing to check my motives with PEP.  Am I personally doing a BB (or any given permie post, really) for:

The joy of gamification?
The sense of accomplishment, or perhaps
To brag about something truly good which I am proud of?
For the sense of community recognition or approval, for that permie digital “apple” or the “likes”?
Or perhaps because sharing my learning curve helps flatten others’ learning time?
To challenge the norm, to be different, to innovate, and practice thinking outside the box?
To brighten someone‘s day?  Someone who perhaps can’t experience the beautiful world in the way I get to experience it right now?
To permanently log my own quality memories? (After all, the internet is forever.)

Because it is good for my own permgrimage and family’s eco-life resiliency, and skill-sets, or
Because it is good for the environment, or
Because it is the right thing to do?
Wait...is it the right thing to do?  Is it the ethical thing for me to do?

Social media of all kinds are amazing, but it also brings with it the danger of becoming a performer, and living out Shakespeare’s “all the world’s a stage…”  

With every gamified thing comes a chance for addiction.  Addiction is the opposite of freedom.   And man do I love freedom...especially as it seems to be in short supply around me.  And honestly, I don’t want my brain to be “infected” with permaculture.  There are enough infections and addictions going around this world, and I’d much rather purposefully “choose” something because it is the right and beautiful thing to do.  I hope to share examples at a later post, but sometimes PEP is the right choice for me, other times, not so much.  

I remain excited about SKIP/PEP, and I am proud of my badges to date... but after rethinking as requested, I’m still on the fence.  
 
Dorothy Pohorelow
pollinator
Posts: 169
Location: Southeast corner of Wyoming
46
2
urban fiber arts
  • Likes 4
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Skandi Rogers wrote:
Most of the things I don't have most people here who would be in my friend group don't have. (I don't know anyone with a pressure cooker of any type, or a rice cooker or even a pressure washer) I have offered my land for people to do small pieces of BB's like tree felling and I can even post small bits of green wood if anyone in the country needs them.

@Anne I do indeed like to cook and you can see some of my cooking and preserving attempts around on the forums, I preserve an awful lot and I also make preserves for sale, but none of them can be a BB as I use aluminium pans which are excluded. If I am ever lucky enough to find second hand stainless pans I could take photos, but in the 10 years I have been looking I have not seen one yet.

Of course one of the reasons I am not prepared to buy things to complete badges is I already own my own place and don't need to prove anything to anyone.



I am in a Facebook group for canning (I got my first canning pots and jars this year) and one of the things frequently pointed out in our international group is that not every country has pressure canners or a history of using them.   Water bath canning is mentioned almost as much as pressure canning even for things most folks in the US are told MUST be pressure canned ie meat is  3 hours at a constant boil when water bath canning.    But it really does point out the difference in history and practice in canning and other preserving methods.    
I am like you I don't really want to replace what I already have that is working well for me just to get a pretty picture in my signature.  So some things I can do but some things I will do my way even if they don't count as they are a skill I want to learn. AND some of the badge requirements simply give me another way of looking at things....
 
gardener & hugelmaster
Posts: 3349
Location: Gulf of Mexico cajun zone 8
1614
cattle hugelkultur cat dog trees hunting chicken bee woodworking homestead ungarbage
  • Likes 7
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
So what are you saying Edward? You like PEP? Who could have guessed? Just kidding of course. It's great to see your progress & enthusiasm.

WOW. I counted 134 bits you have completed. A few of those are PEA's & for BB5/10/20, etc. I'm not sure if there is any plan to extend the badge count icon past 60. I think if there was it would have happened by now. You can modify your signature with your count. Seems like the next truly significant milestone for you would be PEP1. Off the top of my head I think the most significant hurdle for you might be the 7 foot hugel. That's a tough one for sure.

Personally I could care less about dopamine hits from lit up pixels. The thought behind them means much more to me than the actual icons. Like Skandi said, I have nothing to prove. To anyone ... except myself. I totally support PEP though. I think it's a brilliant idea whose time is long overdue. I'm very happy to see how far it has developed. If something like this existed when I was 16 or 18 years old it would have been a game changer. That is why I support it so much behind the scenes now. For the next generation. I can guarantee that some Otis's are watching this entire PEP program closely.

I think almost everyone can learn something from the various bits whether they care to get them certified or not. The hardest part on many of them is the documentation. Or, in my case, simply remembering to bring a phone or camera. I did a few when they were first published just to help get the BB ball rolling. A few more to provide examples of different techniques of accomplishing the same goal. Recently documented a beekeeping one just to show what is expected for that BB. I have enough pix saved of others to get the BB20 badge. Will get around to posting those some cold rainy day. Sliding eggs or anything requiring videos isn't going to happen unless I create my own website to link them from. Not going to open a youtube or mevideo account. Or whatever it's called. I have 2 or3 iron level BB's in the works. Mostly in the planning stages at this point. They will become more urgent next spring. Another 2 or 3 that would be fun, useful, & are do-able. Will see how that develops.

I enjoy seeing badge bits from people who have never done that particular thing because it shows they learned something new. I also enjoy seeing bits from people who are exceptionally good at that thing because it demonstrates what is possible. There is plenty for everyone & I encourage everyone to participate at least a little.

Someone raise the bar. Who will be first to reach PEP2?
 
pollinator
Posts: 1871
Location: Massachusetts, 5a, flat 4 acres; 40" year-round fairly even
212
4
kids purity trees urban writing
  • Likes 4
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Skandi Rogers wrote:I've done a couple but it doesn't interest me as there's no reward, there are very few badges that can be completed where I am as it's not designed for my climate, laws or customs and I refuse to buy useless junk just to get a digital pat on the back.
I don't have a smart phone I only have a proper camera so I normally do not have any means of taking a photo on me when I do things as I'm not about to risk an expensive piece of equipment out in a muddy field.



Skandi, it's admirable that you don't choose to get a piece of equipment just for an accolade, but if you post badge bits you might help other people learn those things and help others who are trying to inherit property.  I can relate to feeling a bit counter-motivated by the badge bits, but the overall cause is something I really resonate with, making land available for people who want to live sustainably and helping those people develop (or reclaim) the skills they need, and helping farmers with land to will to know which people are really going to make good use of the resource so it won't be wasted on empty words and dreams.

Also, you can probably get a free cellphone without any cellphone plan, people throw them away a lot. . .and then it will still work with wifi or bluetooth or maybe USB to transfer the pictures.

If it still doesn't work for you, maybe there are other related ways you can help people learn skills and move toward inheriting property and living a more sustainable life?  The badges have helped me get a lot more focused on the particular skills I may need.

I use my one-piece mallet every day I cook on wood, it's convenient for splitting with a kindling cracker.

I too have a lot of undocumented badge bits,
 
Joshua Myrvaagnes
pollinator
Posts: 1871
Location: Massachusetts, 5a, flat 4 acres; 40" year-round fairly even
212
4
kids purity trees urban writing
  • Likes 3
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I could really use a badge-documenting buddy, it would make a big difference in my progress, send me a purpoe mooseage if you're up for it.  (ideal would be someone in the Belmont, MA area so we could hold the camera for each other's thing, or even do the project together and both get the badge bit).
 
gardener
Posts: 994
Location: Gulgong, NSW, Australia (Cold Zone 9B, Hot Zone 6) UTC +10
437
3
hugelkultur cat fungi chicken earthworks wofati food preservation cooking bee building solar
  • Likes 5
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Thank you Edward for starting this off.  There have been a lot of great comments and to each commentator, congratulations.  Skandi makes a great point about not going out to buy stuff just to do a BB.  Choosing to do SKIP or not is a matter of horses for courses.  For one of my BBs, I made a compound mallet.  Not because I could, but because I needed one as the cheap one I bought split after the first swing.  Learned all sorts of interesting things about green wood working and how it reacts.  On the other hand, having built our house and installed solar power and plumbing, I find it much more useful to provide posts on my experience or asking leading questions rather than doing the BB.  So for me doing the BB is about my learning rather than showing that I know how to do it.  To this end, I journal each BB.  I notice that you similarly include what appears to be lessons learned.  Because we make a lot of jams, relished and pickles to sell (as a hobby in the local co-op) we bought stainless steel pans etc because to our taste, stainless steel has a cleaner finish - Again this is subjective.  All our stainless steel pans etc for managing bees wax from the hive, we bought for very little money from the local charity shop.  Have yet to do a Bee BB 😂 because I am still on the learning journey.

The points you make Edward are a great introduction to, and a fabulous guide on how to get started.  It can be addictive or a complete pain in the rear end depending on attitude.  It may also be that some have no desire to waste physical or mental energy and so be it. But It is well worth just doing a couple just to get some insight into the concept of SKIP.
 
pollinator
Posts: 187
Location: North Island, New Zealand
215
chicken food preservation fiber arts woodworking homestead
  • Likes 9
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Edward -- really like your energy! I think that the PEP programmes have a lot of potential, not just for their stated purpose (connecting keen folks with land), but as a general programme for personal excellence. This programme is actually why I joined Permies, to help combat some ennui I was having at the time and improve myself.

I started out about this time last year and completed a bunch of badge bits. It was great! But then, at some stage, I realised that I could not complete many of the badges due to the reasons Skandi points out--local laws, customs, flora and fauna make everything just that much harder (or not possible at all). This is particularly the case for the sand badges, and I can't stress enough that inability to complete a sand badge (something that theoretically can be done in 5 hours) will prevent a huge number of capable, passionate people from participating. Having these sorts of difficulties in the straw, wood, and particularly iron badges makes sense, but having such a big hurdle to jump so early on will make people question if the programme is worth pursuing. It's easy to try to sweep these shortcomings under the rug; and I get it. It's hard to cater to a global audience with very different climates and resources to hand. However, I really think that with some relatively small changes, you'd significantly reduce that barrier to entry and it would be easier for keen people to get started and keep going.

This issue is particularly true for the gardening badges; the sorts of people who want to farm, are into permaculture, and want to inherit land are going to be keen gardeners. The hugelculture requirement has been discussed repeatedly, so I don't need to go over those well-worn ruts again, but if the BBs for that badge were different (e.g. could hugel down as well as up, or replace that with # calories grown in a garden), it would be a lot more accessible for folks who don't already own land and need to respect the aesthetics of their landlords (and the conditions of their local climates).

The hugel also prevents people from earning the roundwood sand badge. I could do all the BBs for the roundwood straw badge, but then not be able to get it because of the hugelculture scaffolding requirement in the sand badge. I'm really into gardening, roundwood woodworking, foraging, food, and textiles. I'll be able to get two of the associated sand badges (food & textiles), will have to really struggle to get one (foraging--if olives, avocados, grapefruit, loquats and macadamias counted, I'd be there already just in the past few months, haha), and will not be able to get the gardening or roundwood sand badges. After taking several months off doing BBs, I came back to it and am doing straw/wood badges for things I'm already doing, but there's not a huge amount of motivation to do the BBs to the specified requirements if there's no way forward with the badge/programme--might as well just do it the way I want instead!

Not being able to complete sand badges also means I can't help verify BBs and give back to the PEP community in that way.

I agree with Mike Barkley's comments about video requirements. I hope that the team will consider blanket allowing photoseries/gifs in the place of videos more generally (they already allowed a gif of egg frying for me). The carbon footprint of streaming media vs. still images is pretty staggering, and I was surprised to see a permaculture site requiring video for some things (I understand allowing it, but not requiring it).

In any case, I really like seeing what people are making, and think that the current PEP/PEA programs are a good start to what will hopefully become a more inclusive programme for self-betterment and a way of learning new skills alongside others. I've enjoyed seeing you go through some of the BBs, Edward! All the best as you continue on your way!
 
Paul Fookes
gardener
Posts: 994
Location: Gulgong, NSW, Australia (Cold Zone 9B, Hot Zone 6) UTC +10
437
3
hugelkultur cat fungi chicken earthworks wofati food preservation cooking bee building solar
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
One of the things about SKIP is that is is designed around the Lab.  So anything we want to do outside of the Lab, we have to find a way of doing it or a way around it. The key is in reading the requirements carefully and look for work - arounds.
As an example, one of the BBs says plant willows, poplars or cottonwood. Willows are on the no go list here and cottonwoods do not grow.  That leaves poplars - the BB says plant and not grow as was pointed out to me.  The BB is about your planting technique not your plant nurturing capabilities.
This is a great list of those who have done it: https://permies.com/wiki/161174/skills-inherit-property/list-SKIPpers-PEPpers Read what they write and pick their brains.
Good luck with it all.
 
pollinator
Posts: 450
Location: East of England
193
2
cat forest garden trees tiny house books writing
  • Likes 4
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
This is an excellent discussion! I love seeing what other people are doing with badge bits (and try to show that with likes & apples).
But, like Skandi, so many of the BBs aren't possible or appropriate for me, either. I live in the wrong country, don't have what the BB needs, don't want to have it, or can't do it either physically or due to our living circumstances. And others, things I know how to do and do every day? Okay, I am too lazy too busy to spend time taking photos of washing up and pouring the washing water onto the garden! There's also a few where I know I meet the requirements but am not willing to post the evidence on a public forum, for example financial stuff. Because of all this, it's highly unlikely I'd meet the requirements for even a sand badge in any of the categories.
Other BBs, though, I really would like to do. They're skills I want to learn, things I want to have and know how to use, stuff I'd like to be able to do. These are the ones I especially appreciate other people posting what they've done. But when I finally do them, will I remember to take photos in the right places or video myself doing those things so I can earn the BB? Probably not.
My main takeaway here is to support others with the process by making extra sure I pay attention to the BB threads and give likes to other people when they post what they've done for certification. I'm glad to be reminded of that. Supporting others with what they're doing, even if it's not what we want to do, is part of what takes a forum from being a collection of posts and makes it a community.
 
Inge Leonora-den Ouden
pollinator
Posts: 2503
Location: Meppel (Drenthe, the Netherlands)
780
dog forest garden urban cooking bike fiber arts
  • Likes 3
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Hi Jane Mulberry! In your signature I read "I'm only 60! That's not to old to learn to be a permie, right?" My answer: I don't think that's too old. I am 65 now, soon will be 66.
 
Jane Mulberry
pollinator
Posts: 450
Location: East of England
193
2
cat forest garden trees tiny house books writing
  • Likes 4
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I must update that, Inge! I'm now 61!

I love your posts, especially the fibre arts ones. The work you share is truly appreciated.
 
Posts: 39
2
2
  • Likes 7
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Thanks for posting all the BB links at the top of the thread. For me, the best ones are the BB trackers as a way of picking which ones would be most attainable for me if I were to do them. I'm sure I'm doing some of these things now, but doing these things with 3 kids 5 years old or under, I don't make time to photograph them, upload, and come back to post about it in the right places. It seems like a fun self-challenge and might've been a better fit for me prior to kids or in a few years when the kids are a bit more independent and ready to be taught some of these skills. I like the idea of having them using the BB trackers as an education/skill tracking tool!
 
Posts: 7
Location: Weber County, Utah (84404)
4
forest garden food preservation homestead
  • Likes 5
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Thanks, Edward!  I just purchased the SKIP book a moment ago then landed on your thread.  I had to take a while getting accustomed to the many ways one can earn a BB - and often feel overwhelmed - so your tips and links are soooo helpful.  I'll get started on my BB's!
 
Anne Miller
master steward
Posts: 10368
Location: USDA Zone 8a
3111
dog hunting food preservation cooking bee greening the desert
  • Likes 4
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Ryan Kremer wrote:hanks for posting all the BB links at the top of the thread. For me, the best ones are the BB trackers as a way of picking which ones would be most attainable for me if I were to do them. I'm sure I'm doing some of these things now, but doing these things with 3 kids 5 years old or under, I don't make time to photograph them, upload, and come back to post about it in the right places.



Hi, Ryan

Kids nowadays can do so much more things than my kids.

I see toddlers sitting in car seats waving their phones or playing computer games.

Why not get your kids to take the pictures for you?

I was age 7 when I got my first camera so it seems today a 5-year-old or even a 3-year-old can take pictures.

I feel this would be a meaningful experience for them.

I am sure those kids will not take professional pictures, though they are just learning.
 
Edward Norton
gardener
Posts: 1495
Location: Hudson Valley, New York
801
trees bike woodworking
  • Likes 4
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Mimi Owens wrote:Thanks, Edward!  I just purchased the SKIP book a moment ago then landed on your thread.  I had to take a while getting accustomed to the many ways one can earn a BB - and often feel overwhelmed - so your tips and links are soooo helpful.  I'll get started on my BB's!



Hi Mimi - Really good to hear. I’ve had a short break and now going to get back in the saddle. I really focused on the nest badges when I first started and it really helped when I recently moved into a new house. Have fun, I look forward to seeing your progress.
 
L. Johnson
gardener
Posts: 1633
Location: Japan, roughly zone 9b - wet and warm climate
736
kids home care trees cooking bike woodworking ungarbage
  • Likes 7
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I've been happy to see more people posting BBs recently. It's encouraged me as well while I had some time over the summer holidays.

I should be finishing up the Nest sand badge soon, as soon as I figure out how I'm going to deal with greasing hinges...

I have to say the BBs can be very encouraging for getting into DIY aspects you may not have been confident in approaching before. For me that was very true with my Replace a Faucet BB. That one may have been a game changer for me. I feel like I can approach plumbing tasks now.

After talking with a local carpenter I got some good advice on renovating an outbuilding. It is likely going to be an opportunity to finish a solid 50 or more BBs. It will probably take me the better part of the next 5 years to finish the project though.
 
And now I present magical permaculture hypno cards. The idea is to give them to people that think all your permaculture babble is crazy talk. And be amazed as they apologize for the past derision, and beg you for your permaculture wisdom. If only there were some sort of consumer based event coming where you could have an excuse to slip them a deck ... richsoil.com/cards
reply
    Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic